New shows setlist discussion

[Hermione]

1 hour ago, MillenniumFan said:

That would be good (I like WMUWSE), but why do you believe that to be the case? Are there any signs? 

It's September  

25 minutes ago, Hero_Of_The_Hour said:

I've seen them more times than I can count over the years, in various countries and three times since February so I never thought I'd be saying that I doubt I'll bother going to see them again. That genuinely is how I feel however. I'm not impressed by a band performing an act as though it's a play. It's not my scene and I never thought it would be Green Day. I like to feel that if the band bother to interact with the audience it's spontaneous and heartfelt not something they've been saying and doing every night for months that has been proven to get positive feedback. Since when is it OK to treat a live gig as a Broadway show? Some of the things that should stand out as not OK about that concept is that everyone on the stage of a Broadway show are just actors, pretending to be someone else, repeating the same script every night, written for them by somebody else. 

Aww I thought you enjoyed the show in Feb! I thought it was fabulous. Some bands have shows that are more structured and rehearsed than others, it's a matter of style. I don't think having a structure set in place or things rehearsed etc means it isn't heartfelt, or that there isn't also spontaneity in the show, or that it's "not OK" or laziness or something else lacking, it's just their chosen style of performance.

The passion they perform with is more than just acting a play, there's a difference between just going through the motions following a structure and playing an impassioned show to a structure.

[MillenniumFan]

2 hours ago, Hermione said:

It's September  

I literally didn't think of that lol! 

Wouldn't that be a reason for him NOT to play it though, or does he just want to shut up everyone who keeps referencing it haha...

3 hours ago, Hero_Of_The_Hour said:

I've seen them more times than I can count over the years, in various countries and three times since February so I never thought I'd be saying that I doubt I'll bother going to see them again. That genuinely is how I feel however. I'm not impressed by a band performing an act as though it's a play. It's not my scene and I never thought it would be Green Day. I like to feel that if the band bother to interact with the audience it's spontaneous and heartfelt not something they've been saying and doing every night for months that has been proven to get positive feedback. Since when is it OK to treat a live gig as a Broadway show? Some of the things that should stand out as not OK about that concept is that everyone on the stage of a Broadway show are just actors, pretending to be someone else, repeating the same script every night, written for them by somebody else. 

As much I like to bitch and moan about the setlist, I wouldn't take it to that extrem. I mean, they as a band are certainly worth seeing every tour cycle, not just for new material or occasial deep cuts (I got to hear Christie Road during my first gig), but also to see how they've come on in their lives / careers and to simply appreciate the energy and enthusiasm that they put into their live shows.

Yes, the fact that everything is a bit too scripted / rehearsed does turn myself and others off from seeing them more than a few times per tour cycle (excluding club shows). 

So, while I would strongly disagree with those that are put off completely by their predictable setlist and therefore end up not seeing them even once per tour cycle, I can definitely understand where they are coming from. And I also think Green Day as a band could further improve that aspect of their live shows. 

The bottom line is: Yes, I want them (quite desperately) to change up their setlist and be more spontanious!!! But will that stop me from seeing them next tour? Certainly NOT! 

[Hero_Of_The_Hour]

4 hours ago, Hermione said:

It's September  

Aww I thought you enjoyed the show in Feb! I thought it was fabulous. Some bands have shows that are more structured and rehearsed than others, it's a matter of style. I don't think having a structure set in place or things rehearsed etc means it isn't heartfelt, or that there isn't also spontaneity in the show, or that it's "not OK" or laziness or something else lacking, it's just their chosen style of performance.

The passion they perform with is more than just acting a play, there's a difference between just going through the motions following a structure and playing an impassioned show to a structure.

I did enjoy the show in February but it was the first gig of the revrad tour I'd been to so I wasn't aware just how robotic the show had become until I went to a few more shows. It really got to me in June watching the people in the crowd who were seeing them for the first time on the tour laughing hysterically or yelling with joy shouting things like "Fuck yeah!!" when Billie would say for the millionth time to put away cellphones. To them he had just been triggered by someone in the crowd and was spontaneously reacting, how cool. I literally could have told them it was coming by where he was positioned on the stage. I felt like wtf is this. It's like watching a dvd on repeat. I didn't feel any emotion from the gigs anymore. I don't feel repeating the same actions and words every night indicate an impassioned show. To me it's quite the opposite. BTW the only reason I mentioned Broadway is because TimmyChunks said in their defense that their gigs are Broadway shows now.

2 hours ago, MillenniumFan said:

s much I like to bitch and moan about the setlist, I wouldn't take it to that extrem. I mean, they as a band are certainly worth seeing every tour cycle, not just for new material or occasial deep cuts (I got to hear Christie Road during my first gig), but also to see how they've come on in their lives / careers and to simply appreciate the energy and enthusiasm that they put into their live shows.

Well as I said before I literally feel like every show is identical so I fail to see how much energy or enthusiasm it takes to repeat the same few words and play exactly the same setlist but even if it takes enormous energy it does not entice me to ever attend their gigs again if they remain the same. After all every artist has who ever toured from Taylor Swift to Nickleback had to muster energy and enthusiasm and play some songs onstage. Hell Swift even has to dance. It doesn't mean I want to go to their gigs because they have enthusiasm or energy. At this point Green Day gigs are so repetitive it's just tedious. That's my opinion. 

[MillenniumFan]

Well, by that logic the people working in broadway wouldn't need much energy or enthusiasm to put on their show, because it's all scripted there also. 

I think I really have to clarify: There's so many things that are great about a Green Day show that it's really difficult to put them into words and name them all. But here's a few: The shows are 2.5 hours long, much longer than most artists today do and every song is played with incredible energy and passion (in my opinion). The fixed setlist doesn't kill the passion and energy of the individual songs and the advantage of it is that each song flows well into the next. 

And come on, a comparison to Taylor Swift? Really? Green Day actually play their instruments and don't use backing tracks, they prance around stage, they engage with the audience etc. There's so much to love about a Green Day show. 

In my country their ticket prices are also much lower when compared to other major artists, including other rock / punk rock bands in the field. 

I'm sorry that's how you feel, but I can't share that sentiment. I really don't think their shows are lazy or robotic. This'll sound like a cliché, but just look into the eyes of any member of the band and tell me they're just going off a script nothing more...

 

[Hero_Of_The_Hour]

7 minutes ago, MillenniumFan said:

Well, by that logic the people working in broadway wouldn't need much energy or enthusiasm to put on their show, because it's all scripted there also. 

I think I really have to clarify: There's so many things that are great about a Green Day show that it's really difficult to put them into words and name them all. But here's a few: The shows are 2.5 hours long, much longer than most artists today do and every song is played with incredible energy and passion (in my opinion). The fixed setlist doesn't kill the passion and energy of the individual songs and the advantage of it is that each song flows well into the next. 

And come on, a comparison to Taylor Swift? Really? Green Day actually play their instruments and don't use backing tracks, they prance around stage, they engage with the audience etc. There's so much to love about a Green Day show. 

In my country their ticket prices are also much lower when compared to other major artists, including other rock / punk rock bands in the field. 

I'm sorry that's how you feel, but I can't share that sentiment. I really don't think their shows are lazy or robotic. This'll sound like a cliché, but just look into the eyes of any member of the band and tell me they're just going off a script nothing more...

 

I didn't compare Green Day to Taylor Swift or Nickleback musically, or in fact at all. I said that any artist or band who plays live has energy and enthusiasm for what THEY do. That however is not a reason in itself to go to a gig. Likewise you may feel that the tickets are priced lower than other bands (they are not where I live, U2 tickets are priced the same with some cheaper for example) however I do not decide to go to a gig based on ticket prices. Certainly I will not decide to go to a gig simply because it is cheap even if it won't be fun. I'm happy for you that you still feel the passion at their gigs however that's just your opinion and mine is the opposite. Just as I'm afraid I can look into their eyes all night but it won't change the words coming out of Billie's mouth. They'll be the same words that he's been saying since the tour started and that to me is little more than a script. 

[pacejunkie punk]

It's hard to be critical of their choices when I'm not in a band and I don't perform 150 gigs a year for 25 years. If I did I might be in a better position to know how easy or hard it is to play a different show and say different things every night or whether there's even any benefit to doing that given the vast majority of the audience sees the show once per tour.

[Hero_Of_The_Hour]

11 minutes ago, pacejunkie punk said:

It's hard to be critical of their choices when I'm not in a band and I don't perform 150 gigs a year for 25 years. If I did I might be in a better position to know how easy or hard it is to play a different show and say different things every night or whether there's even any benefit to doing that given the vast majority of the audience sees the show once per tour.

For the record they haven't performed 150 gigs a year for 25 years if that is what you are implying. If you are suggesting however that they simply can't think of anything new to say onstage so must continously repeat themselves pretty much word for word for an entire tour well that's their problem I guess. I really don't care why they have become so scripted. I just hate it. And to suggest that to do otherwise is pointless anyway because most of the audience won't notice it is like saying they might as well just phone it in because most people won't notice.  

[pacejunkie punk]

11 minutes ago, Hero_Of_The_Hour said:

For the record they haven't performed 150 gigs a year for 25 years if that is what you are implying. If you are suggesting however that they simply can't think of anything new to say onstage so must continously repeat themselves pretty much word for word for an entire tour well that's their problem I guess. I really don't care why they have become so scripted. I just hate it. And to suggest that to do otherwise is pointless anyway because most of the audience won't notice it is like saying they might as well just phone it in because most people won't notice.  

All I'm saying is not being in their shoes I can't possibly know why they believe it's best to do it this way when playing larger venues and save the deeper tracks for the smaller club shows. From their perspective they're having a great time and the shows are high energy and fun and from the feedback of the casual fan that posts about it after the show they are also having a great time. These shows are getting rave reviews so they must figure they are doing something right. If from the band's pov they thought the audiences were bored and not reacting they would change something up but that doesn't appear to be the case on the whole. I don't think they're delusional, the audiences are loving this tour. They are not phoning it in by any means, they're extremely engaged and in tune with the crowd.

ETA: And 150 might have been an exaggeration from memory but there definitely were years they did 150+ and even still its a lot of fucking shows:

http://www.greendayauthority.com/tour/all/

 

[Beerjeezus]

This is like going to theater to see the same play multiple times and complaining that actors are saying the same stuff every time.

[Caroline Truong]

5 minutes ago, Jane Lannister said:

This is like going to theater to see the same play multiple times and complaining that actors are saying the same stuff every time.

true but which a different audience..maybe that is why some of GD.show is great. even if they played same stuff..because some of newcomer

[SuperXCsabre495]

9 hours ago, MillenniumFan said:

That would be good (I like WMUWSE), but why do you believe that to be the case? Are there any signs? 

*checks month*

I'm assuming that's why they think so 

[Hero_Of_The_Hour]

35 minutes ago, pacejunkie punk said:

All I'm saying is not being in their shoes I can't possibly know why they believe it's best to do it this way when playing larger venues and save the deeper tracks for the smaller club shows. From their perspective they're having a great time and the shows are high energy and fun and from the feedback of the casual fan that posts about it after the show they are also having a great time. These shows are getting rave reviews so they must figure they are doing something right. If from the band's pov they thought the audiences were bored and not reacting they would change something up but that doesn't appear to be the case on the whole. I don't think they're delusional, the audiences are loving this tour. They are not phoning it in by any means, they're extremely engaged and in tune with the crowd.

ETA: And 150 might have been an exaggeration from memory but there definitely were years they did 150+ and even still its a lot of fucking shows:

http://www.greendayauthority.com/tour/all/

 

As I've said before when I saw them the first time on this tour I had a great time. Had I been writing a review for a national paper it would have heralded them a resounding success. However that was before I knew that they repeat every word and action every night. I'm barely talking about the setlist at this point. I'm talking about the onstage banter and antics. I was fairly stunned when people online started going on about Billie telling people to put their phones away because he'd done it at the gig I'd been to. I thought it was a reaction to something annoying on the night. Over the months online comments only confirmed that it was another unchanged part of the setlist. I would see him play the Bitch About Phones tune another few times live before July in person. Standing in the pit watching him deliver the same lines two nights in a row I just thought "what's he even doing?". That's not a natural interaction with the audience. It pleased the fans who were there for one night, as it had me the first night I'd seen the tour, however it doesn't change my opinion that I feel there's little passion involved in repeating the same script nightly for months. 

Also why do I care how many shows they played?

46 minutes ago, Jane Lannister said:

This is like going to theater to see the same play multiple times and complaining that actors are saying the same stuff every time.

Riiiight because actors are playing characters and have particular lines to learn and repeat and places to be on the stage at precise times and particular scripted movements to perform as they are following a script just like a Green Day gig? Do people really not see the difference between a rock gig and a play? Fuck. 

[RougeRogue]

46 minutes ago, SuperXCsabre495 said:

*checks month*

I'm assuming that's why they think so 

But you know what? Part of me thinks they will purposefully avoid replacing 21 Guns with that song for how absolutely on the nose it would be.

But my third and final show is in two days, so I guess I'll find out for myself.

[TimmyChunks]

5 hours ago, Hero_Of_The_Hour said:

I did enjoy the show in February but it was the first gig of the revrad tour I'd been to so I wasn't aware just how robotic the show had become until I went to a few more shows. It really got to me in June watching the people in the crowd who were seeing them for the first time on the tour laughing hysterically or yelling with joy shouting things like "Fuck yeah!!" when Billie would say for the millionth time to put away cellphones. To them he had just been triggered by someone in the crowd and was spontaneously reacting, how cool. I literally could have told them it was coming by where he was positioned on the stage. I felt like wtf is this. It's like watching a dvd on repeat. I didn't feel any emotion from the gigs anymore. I don't feel repeating the same actions and words every night indicate an impassioned show. To me it's quite the opposite. BTW the only reason I mentioned Broadway is because TimmyChunks said in their defense that their gigs are Broadway shows now.

Well as I said before I literally feel like every show is identical so I fail to see how much energy or enthusiasm it takes to repeat the same few words and play exactly the same setlist but even if it takes enormous energy it does not entice me to ever attend their gigs again if they remain the same. After all every artist has who ever toured from Taylor Swift to Nickleback had to muster energy and enthusiasm and play some songs onstage. Hell Swift even has to dance. It doesn't mean I want to go to their gigs because they have enthusiasm or energy. At this point Green Day gigs are so repetitive it's just tedious. That's my opinion. 

I totally hear and agree with you. Believe me, there's nothing I love more than a spontaneous show. I would love the setlist to be more unpredictable.

However, that's not what we're getting and there's a reason for it. I've been told by some reliable sources that the setlist is the way it is because they feel like they're able to go 100% all-out every night without worrying about anything but delivering the best show possible. Wouldn't be my way of doing it, but then again, they're the ones onstage.

I wonder if sometimes us huge fans underestimate the challenges of live touring...I have personally complained many times about how their setlists should be more like Phish or other dynamic bands. Maybe that's just not who they are or what they're capable of. The fan in me believes that they can accomplish anything musically. The realist in me wonders if they're just human and limited when it comes to this stuff and they're just doing their best to give us the maximum of what they can deliver.

 

 

[pacejunkie punk]

9 minutes ago, TimmyChunks said:

I wonder if sometimes us huge fans underestimate the challenges of live touring...

Which is kind of the point I was trying to make that we can't really judge without knowing what it's really like to do these tours.

[Justin]

15 hours ago, TimmyChunks said:

I totally hear and agree with you. Believe me, there's nothing I love more than a spontaneous show. I would love the setlist to be more unpredictable.

However, that's not what we're getting and there's a reason for it. I've been told by some reliable sources that the setlist is the way it is because they feel like they're able to go 100% all-out every night without worrying about anything but delivering the best show possible. Wouldn't be my way of doing it, but then again, they're the ones onstage.

I wonder if sometimes us huge fans underestimate the challenges of live touring...I have personally complained many times about how their setlists should be more like Phish or other dynamic bands. Maybe that's just not who they are or what they're capable of. The fan in me believes that they can accomplish anything musically. The realist in me wonders if they're just human and limited when it comes to this stuff and they're just doing their best to give us the maximum of what they can deliver.

 

 

See like I feel they could switch some songs out and play Brain Stew, Jaded, Geek Stink Breath, Nice Guys Finish Last or Waiting, switch one of these songs each night and no one would really bat an eyelid thinking that was strange. 

[UNICORN VOMIT]

55 minutes ago, Justin said:

See like I feel they pile switch some songs out and play Brain Stew, Jaded, Geek Stink Breath, Nice Guys Finish Last or Waiting, switch one of these songs each night and no one would really bat an eyelid thinking that was strange. 

Not too much to expect.

[gaslight13]

9 hours ago, Hero_Of_The_Hour said:

I did enjoy the show in February but it was the first gig of the revrad tour I'd been to so I wasn't aware just how robotic the show had become until I went to a few more shows. It really got to me in June watching the people in the crowd who were seeing them for the first time on the tour laughing hysterically or yelling with joy shouting things like "Fuck yeah!!" when Billie would say for the millionth time to put away cellphones. To them he had just been triggered by someone in the crowd and was spontaneously reacting, how cool. I literally could have told them it was coming by where he was positioned on the stage. I felt like wtf is this. It's like watching a dvd on repeat. I didn't feel any emotion from the gigs anymore. I don't feel repeating the same actions and words every night indicate an impassioned show. To me it's quite the opposite. BTW the only reason I mentioned Broadway is because TimmyChunks said in their defense that their gigs are Broadway shows now.

 

It's interesting that you bring up not feeling any emotion from it. I went in March and had a blast because, like you, I didn't realize that every show was the same. When I went early last week, I felt like there wasn't an emotional in-the-moment connection between the crowd and the band. Not that EVERY show on a tour is going to hit that magical connection just right. I've been to plenty of shows by plenty of great artists where, for whatever reason, the chemistry was a little off, but it still felt like a shared experience. Last week's show felt more like watching a movie a second time. You know everything that happens. Doesn't make it a bad movie, but there's no personal connection there. Nothing that only happened that night. For the most part it's fun anyway, but I sort of get pulled out in moments like when Billie's trying to get everyone to cheer louder and louder and it's been going on for ten minutes and the crowd is just tired and clearly LESS loud than they were 3 minutes ago and then he goes "now it sounds like you're fuckin' ready!" because he's not reading the crowd, he's just doing his routine. 

Btw, I know a lot of people have complained about KFAD being over played, and while I love that song and think it's a lot of fun, it felt like a LOT of people were either sick of it, or didn't know it at the New Jersey show last week. It was like the energy in the whole place (or at least all the sections I could see) just died suddenly. I couldn't tell if the band noticed but it was almost uncomfortable from where I was. 

3 hours ago, TimmyChunks said:

I totally hear and agree with you. Believe me, there's nothing I love more than a spontaneous show. I would love the setlist to be more unpredictable.

However, that's not what we're getting and there's a reason for it. I've been told by some reliable sources that the setlist is the way it is because they feel like they're able to go 100% all-out every night without worrying about anything but delivering the best show possible. Wouldn't be my way of doing it, but then again, they're the ones onstage.

I wonder if sometimes us huge fans underestimate the challenges of live touring...I have personally complained many times about how their setlists should be more like Phish or other dynamic bands. Maybe that's just not who they are or what they're capable of. The fan in me believes that they can accomplish anything musically. The realist in me wonders if they're just human and limited when it comes to this stuff and they're just doing their best to give us the maximum of what they can deliver.

 

 

I wonder if they're not capable or just think they're not capable. Can't possibly know as I've never gotten to discuss with them what they're greatest fears or challenges are when it comes to performing. I am very curious though because they don't strike me as the kind of people who would be afraid of potentially embarrassing or awkward moments that could occur because of a mistake or something unexpected. Or maybe they're just overestimating the importance of the theatrics and underestimating the value of spontaneous moments/set list changes.
 

[Thatsername]

10 hours ago, Hero_Of_The_Hour said:

As I've said before when I saw them the first time on this tour I had a great time. Had I been writing a review for a national paper it would have heralded them a resounding success. However that was before I knew that they repeat every word and action every night. I'm barely talking about the setlist at this point. I'm talking about the onstage banter and antics. I was fairly stunned when people online started going on about Billie telling people to put their phones away because he'd done it at the gig I'd been to. I thought it was a reaction to something annoying on the night. Over the months online comments only confirmed that it was another unchanged part of the setlist. I would see him play the Bitch About Phones tune another few times live before July in person. Standing in the pit watching him deliver the same lines two nights in a row I just thought "what's he even doing?". That's not a natural interaction with the audience. It pleased the fans who were there for one night, as it had me the first night I'd seen the tour, however it doesn't change my opinion that I feel there's little passion involved in repeating the same script nightly for months.

Riiiight because actors are playing characters and have particular lines to learn and repeat and places to be on the stage at precise times and particular scripted movements to perform as they are following a script just like a Green Day gig? Do people really not see the difference between a rock gig and a play? Fuck. 

So it's not spontaneous to jump off the stage and beat up a car? It's not spontaneous to let the crowd sing 21 Guns on their own when the power goes off instead of just leaving the stage, like, I assume, most other bands would have done? I think they've proven several times that they are very capable of being spontaneous, but right now, they have - for whatever reason - decided that the current setting of the show is what works best for them and gives them the safety they feel they need at the moment. I respect that. And we've seen that when Billie starts to be more spontaneous - like the car-hitting-thing - people start speculating that he's drinking again. And if he starts moaning on stage again, people will do the same. And if he does any other spontaneous or stupid thing on stage, people will do the same. So whatever they do, some people will always complain. Catch 22 situation, isn't it?

And can you honestly blame a band for having a  concept? I mean, aren't bands that vary their shows/setlists A LOT during a tour leg the exception? I've seen many other bands several times (not as often as GD obviously), but it's pretty damn common that they stick to a concept and give the same speeches or interact in the same way at every place they play. I mean, why not? The majority of the people are there only for one show. And even if you're at several shows, I still think Green Day is far away from just running through it and reciting a script. They are SO into it. It's okay to feel differently, but I'm truly sorry if you feel that way.

[Chin for a Day]

9 hours ago, pacejunkie punk said:

Which is kind of the point I was trying to make that we can't really judge without knowing what it's really like to do these tours.

I agree 100%. It is one thing to wish they changed a song here and there and to talk about what we wish was in the setlist. But to say that you know they can change it is totally different. It doesn't matter what we think or what other bands do, the fact is that GD does not feel they can change the setlist right now. Unless we have experience performing in front of 10,000 people every day, we cannot say they can do any differently. We are not in their shoes.    

[LaughingClock]

4 hours ago, Scattered Wreck said:

I agree 100%. It is one thing to wish they changed a song here and there and to talk about what we wish was in the setlist. But to say that you know they can change it is totally different. It doesn't matter what we think or what other bands do, the fact is that GD does not feel they can change the setlist right now. Unless we have experience performing in front of 10,000 people every day, we cannot say they can do any differently. We are not in their shoes.    

With all due respect, they could change the setlist at their desire if they wanted to at any point. It's strictly a strategic move and IMO, a bad one.

Frankly, it is my educated thought that they are not selling as many tickets as they could be and they are doing quite well and it makes me a little nervous as to what's to come, or not.

[Justin]

Remember when Metallica did a "on request" tour... 95% of the setlist was the hits, then they played a song they had never played live before and then it became a staple for future tours.

Never know what can happen if you don't open the door 

[UNICORN VOMIT]

The point is they can and have changed the set with a few songs this tour with no disruption (thank god I was there) & it was fucking magnificent.

[ThibautDookie]

GUYS OMG 

 

[MillenniumFan]

Ok, now that would be great. But sadly, he mentioned Insomniac previously and they still haven't played any :/ 

Still, this sounds very promising!