Trilogy Discussion

[Hermione]

23 hours ago, The Bellie said:

Even though I tend to listen more to the Green Day stuff I have the less listened to until now and there are many songs that I'm sort of rediscovering, the trilogy is still among the Green Day stuff I listen the most to and love the most. I didn't like when Green Day, especially Billie, in a 2016 interview said that these albums had no directions to them and some other things (not every time he's spoken of them, but sometimes) that tended to think he doesn't hold these albums in his heart. And they've ended not playing much of any of them. I know these albums well and get what Billie means each time he speaks of them even if I don't always agree. And I don't want to be selfish by saying these albums are perfect as they are when I know that what they cost humanly being done that way at that scale. But if there's something fucked up with these albums well that must be something that makes them great. At least for me it most often fits my mood and it's because I feel bored, edgy and fucked up a lot. What's great with Green Day is every album is part of their evolution and has its own soul and every album is important to them in first, and I don't want the trilogy to be considered by themselves as less valuable. Billie playing trilogy stuff lately, on Instagram, Walk Away partially during the South American leg of the RevRad tour, and of course a few songs with The Longshot relieved me as there's no doubt now that the trilogy has its special place, for himself, like any other album among GD's discography. Maybe not an easy place, but an important one. From listening only to what Billie had to say about them around 2016 it wasn't obvious. (and it surprised me that he said once, I don't recall in which interview, they aren't playing much of the trilogy during the RevRad tour because these albums are among the less popular to the fans. Well, I'm sure of one thing even if I wasn't there: every fan who witnessed a trilogy tour gig must've fallen in love with the songs as much as RevRad era new fans such as myself have fallen in love with the RevRad songs. Trilogy songs live kick ass.) I'm not really worried about what will be played in the future from the trilogy, as I'm not a setlist-worried fan anyways, I guess what mattered most to me is to get closer to how Billie really feels about Uno, Dos and Tre and with the past year I can say I got that.

They've also indicated that the reason for not wanting to play Uno Dos Tre songs is because they were from a dark time in Billie's life so it's difficult to revisit that and have fun playing them. I think that along with their tendency to enjoy playing crowd-pleasing setlists is a reasonable explanation for not playing much from them. I don't think it means they think they fucked up the albums, they just have songs that have bad memories associated with them plus they love to play their most well known songs (eg they hardly play anything from Kerplunk or Insomniac either, but it doesn't mean they don't like the albums, just that they prefer playing hits).

[UNICORN VOMIT]

13 hours ago, Hermione said:

They've also indicated that the reason for not wanting to play Uno Dos Tre songs is because they were from a dark time in Billie's life so it's difficult to revisit that and have fun playing them. I think that along with their tendency to enjoy playing crowd-pleasing setlists is a reasonable explanation for not playing much from them. I don't think it means they think they fucked up the albums, they just have songs that have bad memories associated with them plus they love to play their most well known songs (eg they hardly play anything from Kerplunk or Insomniac either, but it doesn't mean they don't like the albums, just that they prefer playing hits).

I don't know if this is correct but didn't mike make reference to the trilogy - something like breaking up with a girlfriend - first you have to learn to be friends...

 

[1039Revolutions]

59 minutes ago, SHART said:

I don't know if this is correct but didn't mike make reference to the trilogy - something like breaking up with a girlfriend - first you have to learn to be friends...

 

Yes, he did! He said looking back at the albums, he thought there was a ton a good material (which there was). I think in the same article, he also said that in retrospect, he supported what Billie said at iheart in 2012 as well.

Taking the best 5 or 6 songs from the trilogy makes one HELL of an album. I think it was their best idea to date, and best produced albums to date! 

[jengd]

I agree with a lot @The Bellie said and I think and hope that with time they boys will be able to revisit the Trilogy and pick out some of the best songs, of which there are quite a lot.  Said it before, I think most of the songs are pretty good but perhaps a little similar and that’s the three albums are like eating a while tubm ofyour favourite ice cream, just too much at once.

[deleteduser7593]

Like I mentioned before, one of the reasons why I can't appreciate trilogy in full is because it was released in a bad period of my life and Green Day's one too, stated Billie Joe those days conditions. So it always took me back in bad memories. But, 4, 5 years later, that thing got weaker, 'cause time heals everytime and make ourselves look at things in a more cognitive and conscient point of view. So, during the last months, beaten that ''bad memories'' train about UNO, DOS and TRE, I tried to RE-listen to the whole thing with my mind empty and withouth preconceptions. And I think I ended up to a point. Apart from the quality of the songs (there are good songs), I finally understood what is the main musical thing that makes me take away these 3 records off the stereo: the sound of the drums, the sound of the guitars and Billie Joe's voice, even if I already mentioned this one. Someone feels this way about it too? The guitars have a sort of metallic ringing sound that, I won't say hurts me but... I can't stand it, in a way. Same with the drums, they sound so chaotic to me. It's like I can hear every bassdrum kick but WAY TOO LOUD. I don't know how to explain it. Green Day always had that speedy flowing drum sound into their songs. But in the trilogy I feel like the drum it's playing a never ending march in any song. I don't know how to explain it, I hope someone's able to do it, in case there's someone who felt something about it. Then, yes, the songs aren't great, some lyrics are debatable, but it's the sound, mainly, that ''disturbs'' me.

[michael1989]

Just thought I would resurrect this thread given the recent trilogy discussion in the Longshot thread. 

I think the lack of commercial success was in part due to the timing of the release. If the trilogy was released in the 90s I think it would have been massive. Songs like Stay the Night, Let Yourself Go, etc would have fit right in with radio and you can just imagine those tunes being played at high school / college parties. Come 2012 they were classed as "throw back", especially UNO. 

Anyway, I know some people just didn't like them period, but I don't think you can entirely discount the timing as a factor.

[jengd]

I agree to a point with you @michael1989 but I think Oh Love was a terrible choice of first single, their worst ever by a long way and then of course the timing with Billie going to rehab etc had to have a massive impact, we’ll never know how much of course.  I do like the Trilogy, I think there are some great songs on it Andrea I can never quite put my finger on what’s wrong, if anything, with it.  When the sings comes on shuffle, I seem to often be a little surprised by how good they are so maybe they are too similar and it all becomes a blur.  I like Trilogy, it has kind of a sixties give, I like Dos, it feels sexy and I think Somme or the best songs are on Tre BUT I almost always listen to another album, and none of the Trilogy.  I have said before though that I think Amy is by far the worst song Billie has written!  I could say GD at their worst are still better than most of what is currently played on the radio, but I expect so much more from them, is that the problem?  Think this discussion could  go on forever.  

[¡Nunes!]

Usually It takes me a couple years to say if a really liked an album, it's like a time test.. I mean, it's been 2 years since RevRad was released and I barely listen to it, and at the time I said "Wow I really liked this one". Not that I think its bad, but there are some things that bothers me till this day...the volume that goes UP and suddenly goes DOWN, the songs that seems to be trilogy leftovers (and I love the Trilogy, but in this case I compare this leftovers with the "meh" songs like Sex Drugs and Violence = Too Dumb To Die, Youngblood = Amanda). I'd give a 7,5 / 10.

Trilogy passed this time test, if I'd pick an album with it's greatest songs It'd probably be a double one. We have almost a consensus that songs like Stay The Night and X-Kid are great but there are others that are good enough like Little Boy Named Train and Lazy Bones.  It's a 9 / 10 for me! (Just for comparison I'd give a 10/10 for Love is For Losers).

That said and considering the opinion of my friends who disliked Trilogy, I believe the main problem is regarding the singles (like @jengd said, why in the world would they pick Oh Love to represent the whole thing / UNO??) and the "visual of the band". I hear that a lot from friends when I asked why they lost interest for Trilogy..."I hate the album covers", "I hated the photoshoot", "They look like old mans trying to be teenagers".

So as much as I know there are bad songs on this albums I think they are not responsible for all the hate. And that's why I understant all this changes of management.

[Beerjeezus]

The Oh Love video got lots of hate at the time, understandably. However, the aesthetic wasn't bad as a whole imo. Maybe it's an unpopular opinion, but I prefer it over the 21CB era emo edgelord image. 

[DeJennsitized]

14 minutes ago, Beerjeezus said:

The Oh Love video got lots of hate at the time, understandably. However, the aesthetic wasn't bad as a whole imo. Maybe it's an unpopular opinion, but I prefer it over the 21CB era emo edgelord image. 

I still hate the Oh Love video tbh, I only watched it once  I love everything about 21CB, the vibe, the artwork, the music, but maybe it's because it was my first album release experience and i'm biased.

The trilogy has some great songs (to me it was all worth it to get Brutal Love) but it's just about whether people can be motivated to sift through 3 albums to find them. I can appreciate it as a cool experiment, and the fact that everyone has different favourites means it's not all collectively bad. 

[Hermione]

I think when Oh Love first came out most people seemed to like it. The video didn't get THAT much hate either, it definitely would've got more if it came out now. It got to number 3 in the US alternative rock chart which is better than anything else off the trilogy did. The thing was when the songs were first heard (we heard a lot through them being recorded at secret shows and then quite a few in studio form before the albums came out) they weren't hated on. It was really only after iHeart/rehab/no promotion of the albums from the band as a result that everything started to be called bad.

I think it still wouldn't have been that popular or successful anyway but it was a LOT worse because of the unfortunate timing of the rehab/band disappearing/cancelled shows right as the albums came out, it doomed them.

[Chin for a Day]

3 minutes ago, Hermione said:

I think when Oh Love first came out most people seemed to like it. The video didn't get THAT much hate either, it definitely would've got more if it came out now. It got to number 3 in the US alternative rock chart which is better than anything else off the trilogy did. The thing was when the songs were first heard (we heard a lot through them being recorded at secret shows and then quite a few in studio form before the albums came out) they weren't hated on. It was really only after iHeart/rehab/no promotion of the albums from the band as a result that everything started to be called bad.

I think it still wouldn't have been that popular successful anyway but it was a LOT worse because of the unfortunate timing of the rehab/band disappearing/cancelled shows right as the albums came out, it doomed them.

I agree with this. Oh Love was doing quite well. They performed in on America's Got Talent and Howard Stern couldn't stop raving about it. In the NY area, it was played on the radio alot. It wasn't until after iHeart that the interest in it stopped.

[Miko]

I still love Trilogy so much. It's like a person you care so much, it's so personal for me. I don't consider any of those songs as bad (unless it's Drama Queen) and I will probably never get tired of those songs. Stop When The Red Lights Flash is a banger.

[Beerjeezus]

4 minutes ago, Hermione said:

I think when Oh Love first came out most people seemed to like it. The video didn't get THAT much hate either, it definitely would've got more if it came out now. It got to number 3 in the US alternative rock chart which is better than anything else off the trilogy did. The thing was when the songs were first heard (we heard a lot through them being recorded at secret shows and then quite a few in studio form before the albums came out) they weren't hated on. It was really only after iHeart/rehab/no promotion of the albums from the band as a result that everything started to be called bad.

I think it still wouldn't have been that popular or successful anyway but it was a LOT worse because of the unfortunate timing of the rehab/band disappearing/cancelled shows right as the albums came out, it doomed them.

Might've been just my circle, that's possible. I remember negative reactions when the video came out, both online and irl. A friend of mine watched it and said he wanted to throw up. However, the song was on the radio a lot, so even though it's not my favorite, it probably wasn't that bad a choice.

I can't agree that the rehab is to blame for much of the criticism though. I listened to Uno when it leaked a while before iHeart, so I'm sure my experience of it wasn't tainted by the tour cancelation, and it was a disappointment. The songs sounded awesome live, but the album just didn't live up to it. My friends thought it was meh too. The hate likely wouldn't be as intense if there were shows to make up for the underwhelming albums, but I'm sure we'd still be hating on the records, because there'd still be all the BMX-cellent tits and lifeless sound.

[Christian's Inferno!]

Am I the only one that doesn't think Oh Love was a bad choice for the first single?

Also, I don't hate the video, I actually think the venue for the video looks cool but the girls were unnecessary. But it didn't ruin the video either.

[solongfromthestars]

I like the aesthetic of the Oh Love video but not the content. It's not my favourite trilogy song but I immediately loved it when it came out. I remember posting that I never wanted to forget hearing it for the first time. It was received quite well on here. At that time it was still uncool to like 21st Century Breakdown and that was more hated than anything we'd heard from the trilogy. There weren't even people complaining that Troublemaker was cringeworthy when Uno first came out. I know that was partially just excitement over new music, but I really do agree rehab was its main downfall, more so than the perceived quality of the songs. Trilogy haters will disagree and of course some people would've hated it anyway, but I remember seeing opinions change after rehab.

[jengd]

Someone said something about leaks, I remember a crazy Radio One show with Zane Low when they were playing tracks from BJ's ipod and they sounded awesome!  I felt so fired up but they don't seem to sound like that when played, maybe @Beerjeezus is right to call it lifeless but that seems weird.

Meant to say, I don't hate the video but it just feels weird from this band, I guess if you didn't know so much about them you would just accept rock band with girls, no problem. 

Edited June 14, 2019 by jengd
Addition

[Beerjeezus]

9 minutes ago, solongfromthestars said:

I like the aesthetic of the Oh Love video but not the content. It's not my favourite trilogy song but I immediately loved it when it came out. I remember posting that I never wanted to forget hearing it for the first time. It was received quite well on here. At that time it was still uncool to like 21st Century Breakdown and that was more hated than anything we'd heard from the trilogy. There weren't even people complaining that Troublemaker was cringeworthy when Uno first came out. I know that was partially just excitement over new music, but I really do agree rehab was its main downfall, more so than the perceived quality of the songs. Trilogy haters will disagree and of course some people would've hated it anyway, but I remember seeing opinions change after rehab.

That's interesting...I wasn't active on GDC yet and was a newbie so my knowledge of how it was at the time is limited. I remember bitching about it right from the beginning, but we were teenagers and bitching about everything was cool.  

4 minutes ago, jengd said:

Someone said something about leaks, I remember a crazy Radio One show with Zane Low when they were playing tracks from BJ's ipod and they sounded awesome!  I felt so fired up but they don't seem to sound like that when played, maybe @Beerjeezus is right to call it lifeless but that seems weird

That was so exciting! I think he previewed Dos and I loved it. I still like it the best of the three.

[michael1989]

2 hours ago, jengd said:

I agree to a point with you @michael1989 but I think Oh Love was a terrible choice of first single

Agreed. It's their slowest lead single to date. Something faster, shorter and more energetic like Let Yourself Go or Nuclear Family would have been a better lead. 

There were many factors that influenced the weak sales.

[Little Boy Named Booze]

Stay The Night should have been their first single.

[Chin for a Day]

19 minutes ago, michael1989 said:

Agreed. It's their slowest lead single to date. Something faster, shorter and more energetic like Let Yourself Go or Nuclear Family would have been a better lead. 

There were many factors that influenced the weak sales.

But it didnt start out doing poorly. It was the bands first song to debut at number 1. If you look at the chart numbers, it performed better than Bang Bang

[Lenny]

30 minutes ago, Little Boy Named Airplane said:

Stay The Night should have been their first single.

That's what I thought was gonna happen. Out of all the trilogy songs this one should have remained on the setlist during Rev Rad

18 minutes ago, Adorkable said:

But it didnt start out doing poorly. It was the bands first song to debut at number 1. If you look at the chart numbers, it performed better than Bang Bang

Because it's a pop song. Bang Bang is still a better Green Day song. Chart performance for a single doesn't really mean much in the grand scheme of things. None of the songs on Dookie even hit the Billboard Hot 100 despite the album itself peaking at the #2 position for albums. 

Oh Love was doing well for casual radio listeners interested in pop. A similar breed to what shows up at Iheartradio's festival. That's not Green Day's audience regardless if they enjoyed some singles. 

[DeJennsitized]

I was only around here briefly at the start of the trilogy but I do remember Oh Love got a positive reception. 

[Chin for a Day]

22 minutes ago, SnaggletoothRecords said:

That's what I thought was gonna happen. Out of all the trilogy songs this one should have remained on the setlist during Rev Rad

Because it's a pop song. Bang Bang is still a better Green Day song. Chart performance for a single doesn't really mean much in the grand scheme of things. None of the songs on Dookie even hit the Billboard Hot 100 despite the album itself peaking at the #2 position for albums. 

Oh Love was doing well for casual radio listeners interested in pop. A similar breed to what shows up at Iheartradio's festival. That's not Green Day's audience regardless if they enjoyed some singles. 

I disagree. I actually like oh love and dont like bang bang. Bang bang was just same old, same old for me. Oh love showed growth. 

Green day is a pretty poppy band. They may not be ariana grande pop, but it is pop music nonetheless. They appeal to all types of people, which is one of the reasons they are still around 30 years later. Their audience is whomever likes their music. They are on pop stations all the time.

[Beerjeezus]

They were trying to appeal to mainstream/pop audience with Trilogy and even though I'm a fan of their harder stuff, I see that it's a market for them. Most people you see at their shows are rather pop people than punk people, so it makes sense to choose a poppy single.