Trilogy Discussion

[Montclare]

2 hours ago, pacejunkie punk said:

That’s true. We were just talking in another thread about the meaning of All the Time. Nimrod (and the contemporaneous B sides on Shenanigans) is full of songs about out of control drinking. People listened and no one worried, they were just songs and everything seemed fine on the surface.  He certainly seemed fine in Cuatro, even if those at the secret shows say he was pretty drunk. Like you said, I couldn’t tell anything to look at him until around August of that year. It was drastic and fast at least from the outside. He had been drinking for years so I’m guessing it was the pills. Weirdly, if it wasn’t for the pills he might not have quit drinking.

I feel it was largely the pills as well, but he had a history with those too (mentioned previously in Restless Heart Syndrome, See the Light, 27th Ave Shuffle).  I feel it was an increase in both, as well as/caused by outside pressures (making/promoting/touring the albums, in one interview he mentioned an aunt dying, etc).  Plus, once you hit a certain age, your body just can't process those things like it once did.

[That Dude]

Any word on how that Fell for You remix performed as far as downloads or other success? 

At least Oh Love got onto the new Hits album.

[Hero_Of_The_Hour]

23 hours ago, pacejunkie punk said:

That’s true. We were just talking in another thread about the meaning of All the Time. Nimrod (and the contemporaneous B sides on Shenanigans) is full of songs about out of control drinking. People listened and no one worried, they were just songs and everything seemed fine on the surface.  He certainly seemed fine in Cuatro, even if those at the secret shows say he was pretty drunk. Like you said, I couldn’t tell anything to look at him until around August of that year. It was drastic and fast at least from the outside. He had been drinking for years so I’m guessing it was the pills. Weirdly, if it wasn’t for the pills he might not have quit drinking.

He's been singing about/writing about drugs and alcohol his entire life and nobody was listening to how desperate the lyrics were. We jump up and down to songs like Hitchin A Ride and Geek Stink Breath at gigs because we love the sound of them. How many of us listened to Suffocate and said oh shit, that sounds like a cry for help? Probably none of us. I could go on forever. He has endless songs about alcohol abuse and drug abuse. Clearly this has been a decades long battle. Songs like Uptight and others about depression and self harm (thoughts about it) continue to get overlooked however he admitted back at the time of Nimrods release that Uptight was about himself. It's sad to me that we gloss over his lyrics as we choose until something like iheart happens and then we have him telling Rolling Stone magazine well I've been writing about my struggles for years. It's like yeah Billie but nobody wants to believe you are anything but shiny and happy so we ignored everything you've been actually writing all this time. As for the idea that if it wasn't for pills he might not have quit drinking. I don't feel we are in any position to guess about that as it seems he has used pills/drugs most of his life and there have been numerous photos of him with alcohol since rehab. He stated in Rolling Stone mag he had felt if he gave up pills he could return to drinking. I don't think being fucked up on two substances ever helped someone quit one. I understand you are suggesting it may have increased the urgency for treatment however it still means that he has to quit two separate highly addictive substances rather than one. 

[Hermione]

I honestly didn't know a lot of people were so unaware of his alcohol/substance/general mental health problems before iHeart/rehab happened. Not only has he always written about it in his lyrics but he's also always openly talked about it in interviews. He talked about drink and drug problems and feeling troubled/miserable in pretty much every interview he did in the 90s. I guess listening to the trilogy or watching shows from that time could be more affecting since everything came to a head right after but I didn't know anyone was under the impression that everything was hunky dory or a secret until then. You can hear dark, real stuff on all their albums not just the trilogy, he just carried on writing as honestly as usual and I don't have any extra trouble listening to it.

We really don't know the details about exactly which substances were the main problem or how each affected him though since he's chosen not to go into it, not much point in speculating about that.

[Hero_Of_The_Hour]

35 minutes ago, Hermione said:

I honestly didn't know a lot of people were so unaware of his alcohol/substance/general mental health problems before iHeart/rehab happened. Not only has he always written about it in his lyrics but he's also always openly talked about it in interviews. He talked about drink and drug problems and feeling troubled/miserable in pretty much every interview he did in the 90s. I guess listening to the trilogy or watching shows from that time could be more affecting since everything came to a head right after but I didn't know anyone was under the impression that everything was hunky dory or a secret until then. You can hear dark, real stuff on all their albums not just the trilogy, he just carried on writing as honestly as usual and I don't have any extra trouble listening to it.

We really don't know the details about exactly which substances were the main problem or how each affected him though since he's chosen not to go into it, not much point in speculating about that.

I always felt it was extremely evident but if I mentioned it even in passing as a possible meaning to a song (not just on here) I'd be pounced on by people who seemed completely oblivious to the lyrics of whatever particular song about substance abuse or mental health struggles and the continuous pattern of songs that include similar content. Then there's the age old fan issue of attributing all songs that are anything slightly erring on uncomfortable territory as being about a character instead of Billie writing from his own point of view leaving only a handful of political songs and (only happy not unhappy or potentially about cheating or anything) love songs. It's just so dismissive and has always annoyed me particularly when Billie had given an interview (with Nimrods release) stating that he always writes from his own point of view/the songs are about himself. I'm not sure if fans were really so unaware of all his problems or had somehow convinced themselves he had a happy clappy life despite the words coming out of his mouth every time they press play on their devices. 

[DeJennsitized]

Did anyone really think Billie didn't have problems though? Maybe it's just none of our business. Writing is therapeutic for Billie, and turning some of that angst into songs maybe helped. But I'm not sure what we as fans could have done because, again, it's not really any of our business what's going on in any of the guys' private lives.

[Hero_Of_The_Hour]

6 minutes ago, Jenn. said:

Did anyone really think Billie didn't have problems though? Maybe it's just none of our business. Writing is therapeutic for Billie, and turning some of that angst into songs maybe helped. But I'm not sure what we as fans could have done because, again, it's not really any of our business what's going on in any of the guys' private lives.

It's not about "doing something". We are talking about the trilogy and the fact that some fans may be turned off by the association of it with the surrounding events /topics about drug/alcohol use in the lyrics. The fact is, as Billie told RS it's always been part of his lyrics. There were definitely people who seemed totally stunned when iheart happened to learn that Billie had addiction problems. Billie was the one who basically said well duh I've been saying it all along. He didn't say it's none of your business. 

[Jollyroger118]

2 hours ago, Hero_Of_The_Hour said:

He's been singing about/writing about drugs and alcohol his entire life and nobody was listening to how desperate the lyrics were. We jump up and down to songs like Hitchin A Ride and Geek Stink Breath at gigs because we love the sound of them. How many of us listened to Suffocate and said oh shit, that sounds like a cry for help? Probably none of us. I could go on forever. He has endless songs about alcohol abuse and drug abuse. Clearly this has been a decades long battle. Songs like Uptight and others about depression and self harm (thoughts about it) continue to get overlooked however he admitted back at the time of Nimrods release that Uptight was about himself. It's sad to me that we gloss over his lyrics as we choose until something like iheart happens and then we have him telling Rolling Stone magazine well I've been writing about my struggles for years. It's like yeah Billie but nobody wants to believe you are anything but shiny and happy so we ignored everything you've been actually writing all this time. As for the idea that if it wasn't for pills he might not have quit drinking. I don't feel we are in any position to guess about that as it seems he has used pills/drugs most of his life and there have been numerous photos of him with alcohol since rehab. He stated in Rolling Stone mag he had felt if he gave up pills he could return to drinking. I don't think being fucked up on two substances ever helped someone quit one. I understand you are suggesting it may have increased the urgency for treatment however it still means that he has to quit two separate highly addictive substances rather than one. 

I always wondered if he still drank since rehab and the trilogy in general can you find pics of it?

[Hermione]

Yeah not saying anyone should've "done anything" before since it's his business, it's just kind of surprising when that stuff (ie Billie having problems/writing about them) is treated as being unique to the trilogy era.

[Montclare]

1 hour ago, Hero_Of_The_Hour said:

 He stated in Rolling Stone mag he had felt if he gave up pills he could return to drinking.

But  he acknowledged that that was a crazy thought that came early in rehab-

"Even into the second week, I was like, "I don't belong here. I'm not convinced." The sick part of it is I wanted to get all of the nar­cotics out of my system so I could start drinking. But that's the insanity of the whole thing. You make excuses. You ra­tionalize. You can take a shit in a mailbox. That doesn't mean it's the right thing to do."

[Hermione]

18 hours ago, Jollyroger118 said:

I always wondered if he still drank since rehab and the trilogy in general can you find pics of it?

We don't know because he hasn't said and it's not our business to speculate about it. He's been pictured with alcoholic drinks a couple of times, but we don't know the circumstances of it (eg if it was even his drink), and he's never sworn to stay teetotal or shared what his specific plans are in regard to drinking/not drinking anyway, so nothing to discuss really.

Can we get back to discussing the trilogy please. Things are getting a little too far into speculating about Billie's personal life.

[The Grohl]

So I've been listening to a lot of the Trilogy and there's a lot of songs I completely forgot about that are great! A lot of the songs on those albums are fun and while there are some duds, there are some ones that I couldn't imagine not being part of the GD catalog, like Brutal Love, Lazy Bones, or Missing You. 

[pacejunkie punk]

13 minutes ago, Hermione said:

Yeah not saying anyone should've "done anything" before since it's his business, it's just kind of surprising when that stuff (ie Billie having problems/writing about them) is treated as being unique to the trilogy era.

I don’t think writing about drugs/alcohol was unique to the Trilogy, but what was different about it was the party atmosphere that maybe started with FHT. Before it was written about just as a problem, the trilogy celebrates it more.

[Hero_Of_The_Hour]

28 minutes ago, pacejunkie punk said:

I don’t think writing about drugs/alcohol was unique to the Trilogy, but what was different about it was the party atmosphere that maybe started with FHT. Before it was written about just as a problem, the trilogy celebrates it more.

I don't necessarily agree that there was a massive amount of celebrating drugs/alcohol within the lyrics on the trilogy. What stands out to me are songs like Amy, a stark warning of a life cut tragically short by addiction. Ashley contains lyrics like 

"I taste the cigarettes and liquor on your breath
We used to call it speed but now it's crystal meth
Back when I loved you but you're scaring me to death" 

And

"You say that you're fine but I know that you ain't

You're looking like hell and you're no fucking saint" 

Again definitely not a celebration of drug use.  

Even songs like Loss of Control weren't celebratory they was a miserable undercurrent with lyrics like

"Life's a cruel crushing son of a bitch"

And then we have obvious songs like Lazy Bones. 

[1039Revolutions]

9 hours ago, pacejunkie punk said:

I don’t think writing about drugs/alcohol was unique to the Trilogy, but what was different about it was the party atmosphere that maybe started with FHT. Before it was written about just as a problem, the trilogy celebrates it more.

Nice to see someone with a real brain on here. That's exactly what the Trilogy was, and that's why so many people can't relate to it. Billie knew he was on the brink of losing it while he was writing all of these songs, but when you know you have control of your demons to a degree, and know that you have the will power to clean yourself up if you have to, to be the better version of yourself, you can really have a good time. I think that's what alcohol was intended for to begin with anyway.

[Jollyroger118]

3 hours ago, 1039Revolutions said:

Nice to see someone with a real brain on here. That's exactly what the Trilogy was, and that's why so many people can't relate to it. Billie knew he was on the brink of losing it while he was writing all of these songs, but when you know you have control of your demons to a degree, and know that you have the will power to clean yourself up if you have to, to be the better version of yourself, you can really have a good time. I think that's what alcohol was intended for to begin with anyway.

As someone who's been through addiction and made it out alive I don't think he knew he had the "will power" and was just having a good time I think he genuinely lost himself there for a while and that it was a long time in the making. When I hear the trilogy I hear a more insane version of Billie than in the past cause he didn't really even seem to know that he was losing it. I'm very interested in his addictions and wish I knew more about them just cause I can relate to it. That's one of the many reasons I love Green Day theyve been through it and they write music for people like me who know what it's like to fuck up.

[1039Revolutions]

1 hour ago, Jollyroger118 said:

As someone who's been through addiction and made it out alive I don't think he knew he had the "will power" and was just having a good time I think he genuinely lost himself there for a while and that it was a long time in the making. When I hear the trilogy I hear a more insane version of Billie than in the past cause he didn't really even seem to know that he was losing it. I'm very interested in his addictions and wish I knew more about them just cause I can relate to it. That's one of the many reasons I love Green Day theyve been through it and they write music for people like me who know what it's like to fuck up.

Congrats for making it through you're addictions! I see a lot of myself in Green Day's music as well, and Uno and Tre are my favourite Green Day albums. The trilogy as a whole is the best rock and roll project since the Beatles. 

[solongfromthestars]

The Trilogy isn't actually all out of control partying though. The love songs are very genuine and go further than drunken lust, Brutal Love being the most obvious example but I think it applies to most of them. This quote of Billie's about Oh Love actually puts it in a more positive light than some of their past work:

"I’d been singing about hate and setting things on fire for so long. I guess it was about time I wrote about this." (source)

I wouldn't say there's no awareness in the other songs either. Tre is about the consequences of the behaviour on Dos, and even on Dos there's Lazy Bones and Amy. Kill The DJ refers directly to the pills but still isn't really a celebratory depiction of that.

Of course his issues are clear on the Trilogy, I just think we'd see it as less of a document of them if things hadn't exploded then.

 

20 hours ago, Hero_Of_The_Hour said:

Then there's the age old fan issue of attributing all songs that are anything slightly erring on uncomfortable territory as being about a character instead of Billie writing from his own point of view leaving only a handful of political songs and (only happy not unhappy or potentially about cheating or anything) love songs. It's just so dismissive and has always annoyed me particularly when Billie had given an interview (with Nimrods release) stating that he always writes from his own point of view/the songs are about himself. I'm not sure if fans were really so unaware of all his problems or had somehow convinced themselves he had a happy clappy life despite the words coming out of his mouth every time they press play on their devices. 

I do think this is an issue with how people interpret the Trilogy as well. A lot of fans had their own images of him that the Trilogy didn't fit with, so they just shrugged it off as him going off the rails rather than thinking the songs were genuine. Which is silly because we can't know what any of it actually meant for his life or relationship.

[Hero_Of_The_Hour]

2 hours ago, Maria Gloria said:

I do think this is an issue with how people interpret the Trilogy as well. A lot of fans had their own images of him that the Trilogy didn't fit with, so they just shrugged it off as him going off the rails rather than thinking the songs were genuine. Which is silly because we can't know what any of it actually meant for his life or relationship.

Absolutely. The Trilogy is the worst case of fans shrugging off the lyrics as being about phantom characters, a fantasy lifestyle and imagined sexual encounters as though he were a twelve year old boy. The logic behind all the lyrics being wild fantasy? CSI have yet to hand over detailed evidence folders to TMZ for our viewing  In other words if we don't SEE it we have no proof it happened, therefore it's somehow judging Billie (who chose to write the lyrics and put them out there) to believe in his own words so we will not believe the parts that make us uncomfortable. 

[Jollyroger118]

I agree that people seem to shrug off his lyrics instead of considering that he might have cheated on his wife at some point or was a drunk and junkie. But that's why he writes about it cause it comes from somewhere in him

[Hermione]

3 hours ago, Hero_Of_The_Hour said:

Absolutely. The Trilogy is the worst case of fans shrugging off the lyrics as being about phantom characters, a fantasy lifestyle and imagined sexual encounters as though he were a twelve year old boy. The logic behind all the lyrics being wild fantasy? CSI have yet to hand over detailed evidence folders to TMZ for our viewing  In other words if we don't SEE it we have no proof it happened, therefore it's somehow judging Billie (who chose to write the lyrics and put them out there) to believe in his own words so we will not believe the parts that make us uncomfortable. 

Billie's own words were that certain parts of it were his imagination though. I don't think whether it's written about real events or just real thoughts is the issue. On all his albums he will have written lyrics inspired by a combination of things - recent experiences, past experiences, literal experiences, vaguely based on experiences, fantasy, imagination, a film he watched, something that happened to someone he knew, something he's interested in etc, or a combination of any number of those things, and there's rarely a way to know exactly which lyrics are which. Whether each specific thing he wrote about literally happened or not isn't the question at hand and isn't something we know unless he's happened to say. 

Of course it's silly to dismiss it all as wild fantasy or just him being on drugs or whatever, but so is assuming lyrics are always describing literal events like an essay rather than often being more complicated than that. The songs are still genuine wherever the inspiration came from, not only if they're 100% literal.

[Beerjeezus]

Maybe some people  just don't like to speculate  about other people's personal  lives  idk 

[solongfromthestars]

Just to clarify I wasn't talking about people who don't want to speculate. I was referring to fans who have skewed views of the Trilogy just because they don't want him to sing about sex etc whether it's fantasy or not. Obviously speculating is shitty but it's unreasonable for fans to expect him to behave in certain ways too.

[DeJennsitized]

4 hours ago, Hero_Of_The_Hour said:

Absolutely. The Trilogy is the worst case of fans shrugging off the lyrics as being about phantom characters, a fantasy lifestyle and imagined sexual encounters as though he were a twelve year old boy. The logic behind all the lyrics being wild fantasy? CSI have yet to hand over detailed evidence folders to TMZ for our viewing  In other words if we don't SEE it we have no proof it happened, therefore it's somehow judging Billie (who chose to write the lyrics and put them out there) to believe in his own words so we will not believe the parts that make us uncomfortable. 

I'm not sure what you mean by "shrugging off." Like, as opposed to what? Lyrics are there to be interpreted by whoever is listening. Billie Joe knows that too. Like Hermione says, not all the lyrics are meant to be taken literally. Sometimes they are, but sometimes it comes from a different place. It's not like he's writing them in his sleep and waking up to find the songs already recorded and out there for everyone to hear. There's a whole process going on, lines are re-written and whatnot. It's not always a stream of Billie's consciousness. We're meant to take different interpretations from the words.

As to whether lyrics are actually about Billie or not, the point is it doesn't matter. We can worry about him when shit gets real like it did during the Trilogy, but when all we're doing is analyzing his lyrics, that's just speculation about his private life which I'm not particularly into. If that makes me a bad fan, whatever.

[UNICORN VOMIT]

@Jenn. best future mod award 2017

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