Dakke Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 9 minutes ago, PurpleIron1039 said: This may be a very dumb question, but I genuinely don't know the answer, so I'm going to ask it. How big of a difference does production really make? I mean, if it's between mediocre and good production. I know that some bands have taken production into their own hands. However, albums produced by members of the group usually seem to be criticized heavily for bad production (for instance, I guess maybe Steve Harris' being overeager to make his bass as loud as possible on the X-Factor, even at the expense of the guitars), and I really can't think of many records that have been lauded as having excellent production. Comments on that aspect seem to usually be negative, or at least in my experience. In summation, I guess that I'm just asking for what an example of great production would be and for a demonstration of how substantial a difference that would make in the sound. I think a good example is George Martin, who produced most of the Beatles albums and was often referred to as 'the Fifth Beatle', and really made a difference in the recording of their early albums and basically polished the Beatles as a band and made important contributions and modifications to various songs during the process, even when McCartney opposed them. He was basically a band member who was playing with them, counseling them both as a producer and a manager and in the early days a teacher who taught the boys how to create a refined record and how to develop a signature sound. Martin is of course a legend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
localinsomniac Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 9 minutes ago, PurpleIron1039 said: This may be a very dumb question, but I genuinely don't know the answer, so I'm going to ask it. How big of a difference does production really make? I mean, if it's between mediocre and good production. I know that some bands have taken production into their own hands. However, albums produced by members of the group usually seem to be criticized heavily for bad production (for instance, I guess maybe Steve Harris' being overeager to make his bass as loud as possible on the X-Factor, even at the expense of the guitars), and I really can't think of many records that have been lauded as having excellent production. Comments on that aspect seem to usually be negative, or at least in my experience. In summation, I guess that I'm just asking for what an example of great production would be and for a demonstration of how substantial a difference that would make in the sound. Everything I've heard is that it's more on the engineers (i.e. Dugan) to capture the sounds. Producer'so role is more working on things like arrangements and getting the best possible performances out of the artists. There's more to it than that, certainly, but those are some basics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteTim Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 38 minutes ago, dudley dawson said: Rubin would be a great choice. He (hopefully) won't compress/filter the hell out of BJ's vocals like Vig and Cavallo did (for the Trilogy). That isn't his MO. Listen to any of the RHCP albums he's done. Regardless if you like the songs or not, they all at least SOUND great. The filters are what Billie wants Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
okotavio Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 Someone said on Billie's picture that Rubin's production on Californication was awful, which I found intriguing because it's such an amazing record Since he produced from Black Sabbath to Adele, I guess he would be a good choice for them -- both pop and rock influence seem to fit what Billie Joe loves about his "power pop" Although I really liked Cavallo on his best days and what I think sucked on the trilogy was their (or Billie's?) will to make a "small/clean-ish" record, which I don't think the producer would have a say on it if he respects the artist's view on his own work? I'm really begging to differ this "Cavallo sucked on the trilogy" point of view Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Potter. Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 48 minutes ago, dudley dawson said: Rubin would be a great choice. He (hopefully) won't compress/filter the hell out of BJ's vocals like Vig and Cavallo did (for the Trilogy). That isn't his MO. Listen to any of the RHCP albums he's done. Regardless if you like the songs or not, they all at least SOUND great. Californication sounds like absolute shit with all the clipping and distortion. There's a bootleg version going around which sounds infinitely better, much more dynamic range. Even if many of the songs produced by him are well regarded overall, his over compression and contributions to the loudness war are recurring issues in his discography. He produced countless albums that I enjoy thoroughly, even though my enjoyment doesn't reach peak potential because of Rubin. Other examples of this include Metallica's Death Magnetic and Black Sabbath's 13. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudley dawson Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 13 minutes ago, WhiteTim said: The filters are what Billie wants Why? Someone needs to tell him they sound terrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clockwise Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 They sound great on AI and 21CB. Not so subtle without a bunch of distorted guitars and additional instruments to hide behind though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XxXxXxXxX Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 1 minute ago, Clockwise said: They sound great on AI and 21CB. Not so subtle without a bunch of distorted guitars and additional instruments to hide behind though. They were significantly better on AI than 21CB IMO. I remember that being one of my biggest complaints about 21CB despite how great of an album it was... but then the Trilogy came along and I was perfectly happy with all the filters on 21CB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dakke Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 3 minutes ago, Clockwise said: They sound great on AI and 21CB. Not so subtle without a bunch of distorted guitars and additional instruments to hide behind though. They are a little obnoxious on the Trilogy and particularly on the Christmas song. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteTim Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 Just now, dudley dawson said: Why? Someone needs to tell him they sound terrible. He mentioned it in a interview years ago said it makes him sound better or something to that effect I'm sure Todd or someone who follows the interviews closely can quote what he said verbatim the filters has been used since Warning you can hear the filter on the AI acapellas however wasn't really noticeable cause the music was loud for 21st they let the filter be noticeable cause it supposed to sound chaotic as for the trilogy no idea what the purpose was im going with the theory that they didn't know to turn down the degree of the filter to match the clean sound 2 minutes ago, XxXxXxXxX said: They were significantly better on AI than 21CB IMO. I remember that being one of my biggest complaints about 21CB despite how great of an album it was... but then the Trilogy came along and I was perfectly happy with all the filters on 21CB. 21st was supposed to sound like that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chin for a Day Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 42 minutes ago, localinsomniac said: That's interesting about Billie & Butch, I hadn't heard that. Any idea what they could have butted heads over? Not sure, I wasn't there. Seriously, I don't know for sure. One thing I remember is that Billie didn't want Horeshoes and Handgrenades on 21CB but Butch Vig insisted. I can't think of anything else concrete, it was just an impression on got from some interviews. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XxXxXxXxX Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 7 minutes ago, WhiteTim said: 21st was supposed to sound like that I know it was. It took me a while to warm up to it is what I'm saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan86 Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 42 minutes ago, localinsomniac said: That's interesting about Billie & Butch, I hadn't heard that. Any idea what they could have butted heads over? I've never heard this either. Anything I've heard was positive in both directions. Butch compared Billies work ethic to that of Cobain and also said Billie wrote great rock songs, and Billie said Butch was always encouraging about writing new songs and finishing songs that were only part written. Billie also said he was very thankful when Butch came in to the process for 21st Century Breakdown because he really focused the band at a time when they had so many different parts of songs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
localinsomniac Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 3 minutes ago, JJ1964 said: Not sure, I wasn't there. Seriously, I don't know for sure. One thing I remember is that Billie didn't want Horeshoes and Handgrenades on 21CB but Butch Vig insisted. I can't think of anything else concrete, it was just an impression on got from some interviews. Haha fair enough. That does add another wrinkle to it though – pretty sure I remember an interview way back wherein Billie mentions Horseshoes & Handgrenades was the first song they wrote for the record. And I'm glad Butch won that battle. It's one of my favorite songs on the album. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clayish Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 I'd be very happy if Rubin produced the record. 20 minutes ago, Alan86 said: I've never heard this either. Anything I've heard was positive in both directions. Butch compared Billies work ethic to that of Cobain and also said Billie wrote great rock songs, and Billie said Butch was always encouraging about writing new songs and finishing songs that were only part written. Billie also said he was very thankful when Butch came in to the process for 21st Century Breakdown because he really focused the band at a time when they had so many different parts of songs. Yeah, whoever posted that they didn't get along is wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Dude Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 1 hour ago, Clayish said: I'd be very happy if Rubin produced the record. Yeah, whoever posted that they didn't get along is wrong. I should produce this album. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Potter. Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 6 minutes ago, thatdude03 said: I should produce this album. This is exactly what Green Day needs to make a great comeback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chin for a Day Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 7 minutes ago, thatdude03 said: I should produce this album. You are already making the tour set lists, don't be greedy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PurpleIron1039 Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 1 hour ago, localinsomniac said: Haha fair enough. That does add another wrinkle to it though – pretty sure I remember an interview way back wherein Billie mentions Horseshoes & Handgrenades was the first song they wrote for the record. And I'm glad Butch won that battle. It's one of my favorite songs on the album. Mine as well. It's one of my favorite GD songs, period--I like how it has a more aggressive, raw feel to it than most of the rest of 21CB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dakke Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 1 minute ago, PurpleIron1039 said: Mine as well. It's one of my favorite GD songs, period--I like how it has a more aggressive, raw feel to it than most of the rest of 21CB. Yeah, I've always liked the third act of 21CB the most, particularly due to the individual strength of the songs. Horseshoes and Handgrenades exudes aggression and frustration with a blink of comic relief, while Static Age is just a lyrical masterpiece and so powerful. 21 Guns leverages the message of the album so well and American Eulogy is the great multi-part song the album needed (Mass Hysteria is kinda unnecessary in my opinion). See the Light is a great song to end the album with and it stands out amongst the gloom of the other tracks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PurpleIron1039 Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 1 minute ago, Dakke said: Yeah, I've always liked the third act of 21CB the most, particularly due to the individual strength of the songs. Horseshoes and Handgrenades exudes aggression and frustration with a blink of comic relief, while Static Age is just a lyrical masterpiece and so powerful. 21 Guns leverages the message of the album so well and American Eulogy is the great multi-part song the album needed (Mass Hysteria is kinda unnecessary in my opinion). See the Light is a great song to end the album with and it stands out amongst the gloom of the other tracks. Yeah, I totally agree. I think that the Horseshoes and Handgrenades act closes out 21CB very nicely. It contains most of my favorite tracks off the album. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNICORN VOMIT Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 3 hours ago, Alan86 said: Is it possible Warner/Reprise would cover things like this? GD can afford it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PurpleIron1039 Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 5 minutes ago, BillyjoelxkidXx said: GD can afford it This probably belongs in the "Random GD Thoughts" thread, but I sometimes think about how much money they've made, and realize that there are lots of other artists/bands who deserve just as much success, and that makes me realize that GD must have really done something right. They've sold quite a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudley dawson Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 2 hours ago, XxXxXxXxX said: They were significantly better on AI than 21CB IMO. I remember that being one of my biggest complaints about 21CB despite how great of an album it was... but then the Trilogy came along and I was perfectly happy with all the filters on 21CB. His voice sounded normal to me on AI, like it did on every prior album. 21stCB and the Trilogy it sounds like he's singing from a fast food drive thru speaker box. I like those albums, but the filter definitely takes away from them. If the new one has it too, I'll be SMH. 2 hours ago, WhiteTim said: He mentioned it in a interview years ago said it makes him sound better or something to that effect I'm sure Todd or someone who follows the interviews closely can quote what he said verbatim the filters has been used since Warning you can hear the filter on the AI acapellas however wasn't really noticeable cause the music was loud for 21st they let the filter be noticeable cause it supposed to sound chaotic as for the trilogy no idea what the purpose was im going with the theory that they didn't know to turn down the degree of the filter to match the clean sound 21st was supposed to sound like that I didn't notice them on Warning or AI. Do you think the new album will continue the trend of the terrible filter or return to the glory days? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dakke Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 8 minutes ago, PurpleIron1039 said: This probably belongs in the "Random GD Thoughts" thread, but I sometimes think about how much money they've made, and realize that there are lots of other artists/bands who deserve just as much success, and that makes me realize that GD must have really done something right. They've sold quite a lot. They released the right album at the right time, at least that's what I sometimes think when I contemplate the success of American Idiot. It was a manifest attestation of the anti-war and general anti-Bush sentiment at the time, right before a presidential election and they kicked it off with a really fresh, energetic rock anthem that catapulted them to the front of the rock stage and made a whole new generation fall in love with Green Day because finally someone expressed their sentiments in such a powerful manner. It was unexpected yet it immediately felt like a classic. Because of these reasons I still consider American Idiot to be the most influential rock album of the 21st century. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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