Blasphemy & Genocide: Unpopular Green Day Opinions, Part 2

[LaughingClock]

45 minutes ago, Kuromignonne said:

  I've been a fan for one big year and only witnessed the current era (aside from that, I've seen a great deal of videos from the previous tours ); I've attended 2 shows in Paris and the one in Hyde Park. I never thought of a supposed hierarchy between the last songs of the set and the songs of the first encore, I'm only speaking of my impressions from the shows I've been to. For seeing videos of other shows of the RevRad tour, "my" shows may not have been representative of the whole. Also, I'm mentioning Forever Now because I do feel, all the more since it didn't exist in previous tours, that it being played just before the first encore have something to do with not an exceptional enthusiasm of the audience during Jesus Of Suburbia, not more than for other songs, or not as much as examples during some previous tours perhaps, such as the videos you've posted above. I'm not saying people get bored during JOS. But the greatness of the reactions during Still Breathing+Forever Now, for what I could experience at least, makes it difficult to catch up for the following long song. This was most particularly true in the show in Paris in last February where there were no screens at all (I know, it's a shame) and people did get lost, even though the audience knew quite well all the songs. I think the visual aspect of JOS is essential. Also, about JOS album version /JOS live, although I personally love it live - when I can see -, seeing it live hasn't increased the love I'd already had for it. While seeing Still Breathing+Forever Now live instantly turned these into my favorite songs, which wasn't the case before, and I keep getting more and more addict to every new live version. 

Welcome to the club.

Im not saying you're wrong or right.

The only objective fact, I was stating was that JOS is a DEFINITE and forever crowd pleaser and so it FN which might very well be my favorite GD song ever. I personally love that song but yeah, JOS is just the most popular live song.  Songs you will probably never not here at a GD live show are JOS, American Idiot, Bang Bang, probably FN for a while and a couple others but JOS is just one of those songs that takes you on a journey.

For me, FN was immediately my favorite song when I first listened to RevRad. Of course they have other epic songs that they never play like Homecoming. My guess is FN will probably end up relegated to that. I dunno, I'm happy with both wherever they are but JOS is definitely a larger crowd pleaser. Frankly, many people are hearing Forever Now for the first time at shows while JOS is the seminal song (and St Jimmy) off of their most commercially successful album.

They both are great but you will also, as you go to more shows, though you won't think about it, you'll start hearing it as it was a live song. They also play the songs 10-15bpms faster than they are on the album.

Still Breathing is a conundrum because it was a charting hit but Billie does not love playing it live. I'll be curious if it gets the boot on the next tour. It's certainly, while a general crowd pleaser, it's not the type of song that rocks out so it's not as much of a "crowd pleaser" in that regard. I think you're letting your personal favorites blur your vision a little but I love all the same songs but some are just better live and SB, not so much, FN, fuck yeah, JOS, the best. IMHO.

[The Bellie]

1 minute ago, -Puke-Stains- said:

I mean... it's not hard to read or watch an interview and let the man speak for himself about his own lyrics. 

Totally. It's not hard. And is it hard to let every fan feel and think what he/she does after reading/watching such an interview? I'm pretty sure what I'd get of it would differ from what anyone else would. And I beg to differ, yeah.

Just passing, I  your new profile pic.

[UNICORN VOMIT]

6 minutes ago, -Puke-Stains- said:

I mean... it's not hard to read or watch an interview and let the man speak for himself about his own lyrics. 

I would have loved to have been at those small pre-trilogy shows. It looked so much fun & the trilogy songs sound great live.

 

1 minute ago, Kuromignonne said:

 

Just passing, I  your new profile pic.

 

[DeJennsitized]

1 hour ago, -Puke-Stains- said:

I guess this is probably an unpopular opinion... someone mentioned how they love that Green Day's songs can be interpreted in a ton of different ways and personally, that always really bugged me off. When I listen to a Green Day song, I really don't care to know how someone else interpreted it. The only thing I care about is what Billie's reasoning behind the songs were. 

I'm always interested in Billie's interpretation of his own songs, but I'm the one listening to the song, consuming the music, and so I can apply whatever interpretation I want. It's like other forms of media - TV shows, movies, books. A lot of the time it means nothing to you until you can interpret it in a way that does mean something to you. 

Also, I'm just gonna leave this here:

 

[-Puke-Stains-]

Just now, Kuromignonne said:

Totally. It's not hard. And is it hard to let every fan feel and think what he/she does after reading/watching such an interview? I'm pretty sure what I'd get of it would differ from what anyone else would. And I beg to differ, yeah.

When Billie says a song is important or comes from a very special place for him, I think it's a safe bet that that song comes from a special place for him. It's his own damn words on his music. That would be like saying Wake Me Up When September Ends is about the coming of the fall season, when he's openly talked about the song being about his father passing away. Personally, I don't care what other fans interpret from the music, I care about what Billie has to say about the music he is writing. 

2 minutes ago, Jenn. said:

I'm always interested in Billie's interpretation of his own songs, but I'm the one listening to the song, consuming the music, and so I can apply whatever interpretation I want. It's like other forms of media - TV shows, movies, books. A lot of the time it means nothing to you until you can interpret it in a way that does mean something to you. 

That's totally cool, everyone has a right to listen to music how they want. I guess I'm just different. I don't want my own interpretations on music, I don't listen to music and try to put my own interpretations on it so that it will mean something to me. The musician's own interpretation/meaning behind the song is what I generally connect with. 

[LaughingClock]

6 minutes ago, SHART said:

I would have loved to have been at those small pre-trilogy shows. It looked so much fun & the trilogy songs sound great live.

 

 

You mean like the Echoplex, Tiki and Austin shows or the practice run of 99 Rev Tour like Fox Pamona?

[DeJennsitized]

10 minutes ago, -Puke-Stains- said:

That's totally cool, everyone has a right to listen to music how they want. I guess I'm just different. I don't want my own interpretations on music, I don't listen to music and try to put my own interpretations on it so that it will mean something to me. The musician's own interpretation/meaning behind the song is what I generally connect with. 

That's also fair enough. I just feel that if Billie is putting something out there for us to recieve, he's giving permission for that song or album to be ours. As in, individually. There's a TV trope called Death of the Author that can be applied to music too, I think.

 http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DeathOfTheAuthor

It's not saying Billie's interpretation of his work isn't invalid (of course it's not, it's his own damn song), but no one's interpretation of a song is invalid either IMO. And while I love and admire Billie and his genius songwriting, he is also not me and so what holds meaning for him in a song might not be what I do. And I think that's okay.

[The Bellie]

1 minute ago, -Puke-Stains- said:

Personally, I don't care what other fans interpret from the music

If I thought the same as you about this, I wouldn't have any honorable reason to be here.

Also, I don't fully agree with the term "interpret" in this context.

And I feel like you're misunderstanding or deforming my words. I care about what Billie says more than the air that I breathe. In my own way. I don't want to impose it to anyone nor to be imposed yours. We may happen to disagree, and I suggest we both move on from this. 

[-Puke-Stains-]

Just now, Jenn. said:

That's also fair enough. I just feel that if Billie is putting something out there for us to recieve, he's giving permission for that song or album to be ours. As in, individually. There's a TV trope called Death of the Author that can be applied to music too, I think. http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DeathOfTheAuthor

It's not saying Billie's interpretation of his work isn't invalid (of course it's not, it's his own damn song), but no one's interpretation of a song is invalid either IMO. And while I love and admire Billie and his genius songwriting, he is also not me and so what holds meaning for him in a song might not be what I do. And I think that's okay.

I wasn't calling anyone else's way of listening to music invalid, just wanted to share how I connect with music because I felt like it was probably an unpopular method. I've always connected with musicians who are very open about their struggles and aren't afraid to talk about their lives, which is why I hold Billie so near and dear to my heart. 

[UNICORN VOMIT]

18 minutes ago, LaughingClock said:

You mean like the Echoplex, Tiki and Austin shows or the practice run of 99 Rev Tour like Fox Pamona?

I think one of them was the Tiki yeah - the ones where they played all new songs.

[-Billiejoezee-]

23 minutes ago, SHART said:

I think one of them was the Tiki yeah - the ones where they played all new songs.

That was a good time. 

On the subject of interpretation, I'm on both sides. I like making my own interpretations but there's just some songs I can't do it with. Songs that already have a meaning to them I feel uncomfortable trying to give them different meanings, so for many songs, I take it as the way Billie "felt" when he wrote it, which is how I can relate. Say pulling teeth. We know what it's about. I feel uncomfortable interpreting it any other way because that's just not what it's about. This is usually how I relate to songs. Like WMWSE, I relate to it because my grandfather died during September. I usually enjoy taking the songs at face value, I either relate to what it's about or I do not. As a writer interpretation is a huge part of what I constantly do. When it comes to Green Day I tend to not do that. Mainly because some interpretations have upset me in the past, as Maria said.  An acquaintance once interpreted that stray heart was about Billie struggling with cheating on Adrienne. The only songs I think can be interpreted are the ones Billie has written without an actual idea behind it, you know like most of the songs on the trilogy that he stated he just wrote just to write. That being said, while I don't necessarily interpret songs in a whole, I do enjoy interpreting singular passages and lines of the song, and taking them out of context. Which is why I absolutely love it when Billie uses metaphors and similes in the song. Jesus of suburbia is a song about a character he created but many lines are extremely relatable and we can take it as we like. 

2 hours ago, Kuromignonne said:

I've been a fan for one big year and only witnessed the current era 

I envy you 

[LaughingClock]

49 minutes ago, -Billiejoezee- said:

Jesus of suburbia is a song about a character he created but many lines are extremely relatable and we can take it as we like. 

 

But that's true for about every song he's written. I just wrote a long post about how everything Billie writes is really his interpretation even when it's something extraordinarily political. In pretty much all Green Day songs, they are written from the vantage point of Billie (even when it's a different character like St. Jimmy). Only so often when necessary during the opera years did he write from others vatage point and even then, they were still him sometimes. Jimmy vs JOS. 

Still Breathing was written about Billie and the fact that he survived rehab.

The Nows are both written specifically about his drug and alcohol issues as well (as are songs like Brain Stew, Burnout, Geek Stink Breath, Sex Drugs and Violence, Christie Road) and so many more but that doesn't mean that a firefighter who is retiring and survived a dangerous career can't relate to the same emotion. Stories vary massively differently from person to person but there are only so many emotions and therefore they are relatable sometimes even though they were not written with THAT PERSON (whomever) in mind.

If you consider Billie a poet (and I do) he would be offended to know that his pros (lyrics) are not interpretable because all great works of art USUALLY are.

Also Billie likes to play with words as much as similies, metaphors and hyperbole.

A great line from FN "My name is Billie and I'm freaking out". --- were talking about our character from the onset. He's on drugs...12 steppers say "my name is X and I'm an alcoholic" .... Also we know he's not happy with it. Not bad for one line.

Also in the revolution resolution of FN when he says "I'm not standing in line no more, I'll put it off another day" on the surface sounds like he will procrastinate but at the end of the song he's really concluding that he will no longer procrastinate and he will PUT IT OFF ANOTHER DAY, as in not today. Such a great phrase as you have to really dissect the narrative to figure that out.

Also with "Dull" and "Full" on The Nows but that is just something that I thought was dull on both occasions until I saw it live and realized he said "full" in FN and that completely changed the book end and it made much more sense.  With just a single letter. Only Billie.

[-Billiejoezee-]

I agree with you, but I think you misunderstood. I was referring to when people try to change the original meaning of a song. I'm totally fine with people relating to a song even if they have different situations, because I do it too. Sorry if I didn't make sense, my head is not working out today. 

[pacejunkie punk]

Reminds me of the opening line of SN: “I’m running late to somewhere now, that I don’t want to be.”  Considering the next few lines, I immediately took that to be a 12 step meeting and it probably is, but when he’s spoken about it in interviews, he’s said he loves that one line because it’s so relatable. It can be the dentist or anything, everyone has felt that way. So again, different circumstances, but universal emotions.  Good stuff. If Still Breathing didn’t ascribe universal emotions to different situations, It wouldn’t have resonated with so many people and maybe wouldn’t have been the hit it became.

And I actually didn’t make the connection between “My name is Billie and I’m freaking out” and “My name is x and I’m an alcoholic”. That’s pretty good. He said it was the most honest line he’s ever written and I didn’t fully understand why until now. 

[LaughingClock]

14 minutes ago, -Billiejoezee- said:

I agree with you, but I think you misunderstood. I was referring to when people try to change the original meaning of a song. I'm totally fine with people relating to a song even if they have different situations, because I do it too. Sorry if I didn't make sense, my head is not working out today. 

I wasn't disagreeing. Just chatting. I love waxing philosophy on Billie's lyrics. My head is never working. 

[pacejunkie punk]

Just curious but does anyone know what the official interpretation is of the line “we all die in threes”?  When I hear it, it makes me think of Billie, Mike and Tre, like how if something were to happen to any one of them they would all go down. So it’s a reminder not to be selfish because if Billie died then Green Day would die for example, like it wouldn’t just affect him. Does that make sense? That’s what I thought it was anyway.

[-Billiejoezee-]

13 minutes ago, pacejunkie punk said:

Just curious but does anyone know what the official interpretation is of the line “we all die in threes”?  When I hear it, it makes me think of Billie, Mike and Tre, like how if something were to happen to any one of them they would all go down. So it’s a reminder not to be selfish because if Billie died then Green Day would die for example, like it wouldn’t just affect him. Does that make sense? That’s what I thought it was anyway.

That's something I always thought of as well. Like they're all in this together. Also there was a conspiracy that Billie was referring to celebrities deaths since during last year everyone seemed to be dying in threes. 

42 minutes ago, LaughingClock said:

I wasn't disagreeing. Just chatting. I love waxing philosophy on Billie's lyrics. My head is never working. 

Haha it's all good, man. Mines is never working either. I just hope it's functioning just a bit when I post on here. 

[pacejunkie punk]

8 minutes ago, -Billiejoezee- said:

That's something I always thought of as well. Like they're all in this together. Also there was a conspiracy that Billie was referring to celebrities deaths since during last year everyone seemed to be dying in threes. 

There is a saying that bad news comes in threes, so I suppose there is a hint of that as well.

[gaslight13]

I am so confused by why it's apparently bad to connect with the music because of what it means to Billie? He talks about what it means to him so it's not prying, and relating to other humans is cool, so like, what's the problem? Everyone can relate how they want to but I'm also someone who doesn't really want to know other people's interpretations of the songs either. At least not if personal to themselves or clearly not what Billie meant. Maybe just with the ones that are ambiguous if I'm trying to figure out the meaning as they might think of something I haven't. But otherwise, I care more about if I'm interpreting it the way it was originally intended because it's no fun to think you're listening to a romantic love song and later find out it's about an abusive relationship or something. I like relating to the songwriter and feeling that connection. If other people want to make their own meaning, that's cool too. I don't understand why this is a right or wrong issue. 
 

1 hour ago, pacejunkie punk said:

Just curious but does anyone know what the official interpretation is of the line “we all die in threes”?  When I hear it, it makes me think of Billie, Mike and Tre, like how if something were to happen to any one of them they would all go down. So it’s a reminder not to be selfish because if Billie died then Green Day would die for example, like it wouldn’t just affect him. Does that make sense? That’s what I thought it was anyway.

I think it's a pretty known "theory" that celebs die in threes. I've never heard him say what it's about though so can't say for sure. 

[Hermione]

12 hours ago, -Puke-Stains- said:

I mean... it's not hard to read or watch an interview and let the man speak for himself about his own lyrics. 

He doesn't explain every song or every line of every song though, so interpretation is necessary. I think you look at it in a very simplistic way. Hearing different people's interpretations isn't just about how they feel about it or how they interpret it differently. It's also about simply working out what the meaning is and every possible facet of that meaning, beyond what's immediately obvious or the parts Billie has happened to explain. He also sometimes writes lyrics that are supposed to have multiple meanings or ambiguous meanings that deliberately leave room for individual interpretation. The beauty of art/lyrics is that not everything about them is always black and white and spelled out for you.

I'm all about getting to Billie's intended meaning as well but imo hearing different interpretations only helps with and enriches that. Unless someone's going to say they don't believe him when he explicitly says what a song's about . But I don't see that happening very often.

[jengd]

I agree with so much that's been said and one of the things I most admire about Billie's lyrics are how you can listen to the songs and enjoy them without giving them any thought OR listen to the lyrics and take them at face value OR dive deeper in and make more of them, your interpretation may or may not be the same as Billie's and that's fine.  What really gets me though is how much he conveys so quickly, e.g. the example  @LaughingClock quotes above, I just think that's amazing.  I also find his lyrics touching at times and very relatable and think he really lays himself out in some.  I also can't really explain why I feel such a connection to what he writes without saying that he just understands humans really well, I could hardly be less like him but they really get to me.  Last thing, there are times we hear a song and it just hits us, for whatever reason it means something to you that bears no relation to the song and it's generally accepted meaning, and that's ok too 👌 

[solongfromthestars]

13 hours ago, LaughingClock said:

You mean like the Echoplex, Tiki and Austin shows or the practice run of 99 Rev Tour like Fox Pamona?

Of all the iconic shows they've played, those first Trilogy gigs (Tiki Bar, Austin, etc) are the ones I most wish I'd been at. They looked like so much fun and were probably the only times they'll play some of those Trilogy songs. Especially Echoplex, that was probably the closest they'll get to my dream setlist. When I was in Austin I went to find the club that used to be Red 7 That is probably an unpopular opinion or at least would have been when the Trilogy hate was at its worst.

 

12 hours ago, -Billiejoezee- said:

Mainly because some interpretations have upset me in the past, as Maria said. 

When I was 13 I got so upset by others' interpretations of 21st Century Breakdown, because Gloria was my idol and they had her doing all these shitty things and breaking up with Christian

 

No way of interpreting music is bad or invalid, but I agree with Hermione that some kind of interpretation is necessary because Billie will never explain exactly what he means, and even if he does, we can't know exactly how he feels without knowing him personally; so we're still interpreting his feelings in our own ways. That's not to say there's anything wrong with being interested only in the original meaning, or not wanting to hear others' interpretations (there isn't anything wrong with that at all), just that I think that is a form of interpretation too.

He explained what we've been discussing really well with Still Breathing:

“To me, Still Breathing is about survival; about surviving some kind of hardship. That hardship could be a childhood memory, or else it could be drugs, or it could be someone who just came home from Afghanistan, say. It’s just about trying to find that common ground where you can survive with people. It’s a song about resilience.” (source)

“I don’t wanna be selfish. I’d rather write something where my eyes are forward, not so much internal. I hope it makes people happy and creates a difference in some way, just by people recognizing themselves in the song.” (source)

He achieved that too I think - I remember us all sharing our own personal stories about why the song resonated with us when it came out and it really allowed a lot of total strangers to find that "common ground where you can survive with people".

[pouty bitch]

I don't know about the rest of the world, but on this forum, it seems that my fave songs off RevRad are everyone else's least faves, and my least faves are everyone else's faves. Like, I really really like Troubled Times, RevRad, BOTW, OW and Youngblood and I've loved them ever since I first heard the album, but they all seem to be quite unpopular on this site. Also, I'm not a huge fan of Forever Now (unless its live), Somewhere Now, or Still Breathing, but most people on here seem to love them.

[Starlight]

On 9/28/2017 at 2:25 AM, WhiteTim said:

Austin ain’t as weird as it used to be 😞

Yeah I think they're going to have to change their slogan soon.

[The Bellie]

22 hours ago, LaughingClock said:

For me, FN was immediately my favorite song when I first listened to RevRad. 

22 hours ago, LaughingClock said:

Of course they have other epic songs that they never play like Homecoming. My guess is FN will probably end up relegated to that. 

22 hours ago, LaughingClock said:

I dunno, I'm happy with both wherever they are but JOS is definitely a larger crowd pleaser. Frankly, many people are hearing Forever Now for the first time at shows while JOS is the seminal song (and St Jimmy) off of their most commercially successful album.

Only time will tell what happens to Forever Now.  As for the American idiot songs they always play, I personally have no problem with any of them, on the contrary. While I would be willing to sacrifice anything on the setlist to keep Still Breathing and Forever Now, I can totally figure that the AI songs would be the last to be sacrificed. I measure the importance of that album for the band.   

22 hours ago, LaughingClock said:

Still Breathing is a conundrum because it was a charting hit but Billie does not love playing it live. I'll be curious if it gets the boot on the next tour. It's certainly, while a general crowd pleaser, it's not the type of song that rocks out so it's not as much of a "crowd pleaser" in that regard.

I do find, like you, there's some kind of enigma around Still Breathing but not the way as you. I don't think it's that easily a general crowd pleasure. What makes you tell that Billie doesn't love playing it live? It's hard to sing, I'd even say that for the singing part it's the hardest song they have played during one complete tour so far, but he puts such a great deal of himself into it, in a unique way that makes it a very special moment for the audience. And so I think Still Breathing is a far better song when played live, guess it's the right place to post that! 

22 hours ago, LaughingClock said:

I think you're letting your personal favorites blur your vision a little but I love all the same songs but some are just better live and SB, not so much, FN, fuck yeah, JOS, the best. IMHO.

The way I see it, that last statement of yours in subjective as well  Moreover, I don't think my personal favorites blur my vision in some notable way. As I said, watching the two songs live made them become my favorites. That's not related to the audience's reaction to them - the first show I went to in France on last February was my first concert and I remember, in that huge arena deprived of any screen, hating every human being that was surrounding me and threatening to make me fall and die . So I didn't mind about other people's reaction to each song, especially when most of the the songs I wasn't able to sing along or didn't even know at all for some - I only partially knew RevRad, AI and Dookie. I did notice different reactions from SB all the way to JOS, but that didn't necessarily match with mine or with my feelings. I was voiceless and all chill during SB and FN, completely blown away, and then I woke up with American Idiot, and during Jesus Of Suburbia I was yelling harder than people around me. Once again, that sure doesn't always happen like that, French audiences are not like others, and for what I could experience twice, Green Day French audiences are edgy. I've never seen, in any video, so many people crowdsurfing as during Still Breathing on my second show in France, on June. I hated them!

1 hour ago, G-L-O-R-I-A said:

 Troubled Times, RevRad, BOTW, OW and Youngblood

were songs I immediately loved on the album, and that has kept increasing since.  

1 hour ago, G-L-O-R-I-A said:

 Also, I'm not a huge fan of Forever Now (unless its live), Somewhere Now, or Still Breathing, but most people on here seem to love them.

Forever Now, Still Breathing, Say Goodbye and Bang Bang took me more time than the others, and took me seeing them live (except for SG, one day I just started loving it while still waiting for an improbable live version of it ). Somewhere Now, Outlaws and Too Dumb To Die immediately had a huge love and they are (in that order) behind Troubled Times which is my #3 track on the album, and followed by Bang Bang and then RevRad and the ones remaining. If I didn't lose you, you know everything now