Blasphemy & Genocide: Unpopular Green Day Opinions, Part 2

[WhiteTim]

4 hours ago, The Beatles said:

I just don't like 21st Century Breakdown, at all. Everyone always gets mad at me for saying that! But I'm sorry, to me it is Green Day going 'oh hey political American Idiot did so well, let's do another similar concept political album', and for that reason it just seems artificial and over-written. Some of the lines don't even make any sense, they are just trying too hard to be political and concept-y. 

And the song 21st CB being in so many parts like JOS.... just seemed like cashing in on the trend they made basically.

Uhhh Green Day didn't start that trend... 

[DeJennsitized]

11 hours ago, The Beatles said:

I just don't like 21st Century Breakdown, at all. Everyone always gets mad at me for saying that! But I'm sorry, to me it is Green Day going 'oh hey political American Idiot did so well, let's do another similar concept political album', and for that reason it just seems artificial and over-written. Some of the lines don't even make any sense, they are just trying too hard to be political and concept-y. 

And the song 21st CB being in so many parts like JOS.... just seemed like cashing in on the trend they made basically.

You've won the thread  Honestly couldn't disagree more. 21CB is, for me, their best work. I don't think it's similar to AI at all. I get a totally different vibe. AI is compact, packs a punch, tells a story and job done. 21CB is theatrical (I mean literally, it's in three acts), intricate and a lot more experimental. I love AI's lyrics but some in 21CB give me chills. As for some lines not making sense, tbh every album has some of those  Cashing in on AI's success? Maybe. But I think it's better than AI so if that's what they did, fair play to them!

[Hermione]

I don't think it was cashing in at all. From all the interviews and articles at the time it seems like it was a difficult album to make and they really dug deep emotionally and laboured over it, if they wanted to knock out a quick follow up to cash in on AI's success why wait five years and labour over the most complex music and lyrics they've made to date? I think it was a natural artistic progression, building on what they started with AI to make an even more ambitious and musically diverse album which does have some similarities but a lot of differences as well. AI is a political rock opera telling a story that you can follow from start to finish. 21st CB makes use of characters again but isn't a rock opera, there's really no storyline, and while it touches on some political points I couldn't call it a political album, it's much more personal.

It's the most ambitious and impressive music they've made imo. Much more than a copy of AI, it might've been built on what they'd done before but they progressed on and took their musical ambition to another level.

[so-unholy]

1 hour ago, Jenn. said:

You've won the thread  Honestly couldn't disagree more. 21CB is, for me, their best work. I don't think it's similar to AI at all. I get a totally different vibe. AI is compact, packs a punch, tells a story and job done. 21CB is theatrical (I mean literally, it's in three acts), intricate and a lot more experimental. I love AI's lyrics but some in 21CB give me chills. As for some lines not making sense, tbh every album has some of those  Cashing in on AI's success? Maybe. But I think it's better than AI so if that's what they did, fair play to them!

YES. 21CB is a masterpiece, which makes it all the more of a shame when it's largely ignored during live shows.

I get that Christian and Gloria are very similar to JOS and St. Jimmy, two sides of the same coin, but they're not as dramatized and BIG. They're all Billie, essentially, but he strikes deeper on 21CB. The struggle to keep fighting in Viva La Gloria, the absolute madness of Christian's Inferno. He paints a picture of personal conflict first and foremost, at least for me, which is a triumph on such a massive album. And he lets hope finish the story, ending with See the Light, whereas AI closes on a heartbreaking note. It's not overly sappy and optimistic, he's just not done trying yet.

And the lyrics - the distilled anger in American Eulogy and the multiple spitfire verses on Peacemaker. They only impress me more now, after so many years of listening.

[RougeRogue]

I think that...I enjoyed the aesthetic, atmosphere and vibe of the 21CB era perhaps more than the album itself compared to their others. That era was SO important for me. It was like...my fandom prime. I met my best friend because of it. I had my first show during that tour...so I'm fond of it for those reasons. But musically, I don't know if there's a lot of those songs that sit in my top 10. Mind you, at the time it came out, I still remember listening to it for the first time and it was amazing. But listening to it now, it doesn't always grab me like it used to.

[The Grohl]

I was listening to GD today and a bunch of 21st CB songs came on. I find I still really enjoy the album. Some songs I grew out of like 21 Guns, but most of the others I still regard fondly. That time was amazing. It was years after I was heavily into GD after falling in love with the band in 2004. I was so pumped for that album I skipped school and went to the mall to grab a copy. And when I listened to it I was filled with so much pride that they made another stellar album. I honestly wish I went to see them on tour that year. Not sure why I didn't.

[pacejunkie punk]

I didn't like 21 Guns when it first came out, not sure why but it was slow and poppy and the chorus didn't grab me. I also thought it was overplayed on the radio because it was such a hit.  Silly casual fan was I.  I never paid close attention to the lyrics then either.  Now that I'm a superfan I've come to love it, it's beautiful and the lyrics are genius and really speak to me. One of my favorites I was so glad they brought it back.

[gaslight13]

39 minutes ago, pacejunkie punk said:

I didn't like 21 Guns when it first came out, not sure why but it was slow and poppy and the chorus didn't grab me. I also thought it was overplayed on the radio because it was such a hit.  Silly casual fan was I.  I never paid close attention to the lyrics then either.  Now that I'm a superfan I've come to love it, it's beautiful and the lyrics are genius and really speak to me. One of my favorites I was so glad they brought it back.

I felt the same until I heard the way the started playing it live when Billie started singing "guns" differently. Such a small change made it ten times more epic. Now I get annoyed when he lets the crowd since that line instead, haha. 

[pacejunkie punk]

40 minutes ago, gaslight13 said:

I felt the same until I heard the way the started playing it live when Billie started singing "guns" differently. Such a small change made it ten times more epic. Now I get annoyed when he lets the crowd since that line instead, haha. 

Yeah I've noticed that too he only does the falsetto on the last one and belts out all the others. I wonder why the change. Are all those falsettos hard to do live? 

[gaslight13]

9 hours ago, pacejunkie punk said:

Yeah I've noticed that too he only does the falsetto on the last one and belts out all the others. I wonder why the change. Are all those falsettos hard to do live? 

My guess, though I'm not sure, is that it came from hearing the broadway cast do it because that's how they sang it. Maybe he heard that and decided it sounded better that way. Could be the difficulty though too. I recall one performance where his voice cracked during it I think and it sounded terrible. Regardless, I love this way of doing it. I'm really glad it's back in the set but I hope it gets added back as a full band song again someday.

[Hermione]

14 hours ago, pacejunkie punk said:

Are all those falsettos hard to do live? 

From seeing how he struggled to do it at times I'd say yes. It's a shame though because I love the falsetto , even when he doesn't do it perfectly. They seem to be determined to remove everything I like most about the song when they play it live, first the interesting intro that's then repeated and the "when it's time to live and let die..." part and now the falsetto . It's a meh live song for me, they might as well just play BOBD (which delivers a very similar live experience) and skip it. 

Now I'm remembering how VERY WEIRD 21 Guns sounded at first, having never heard him do falsetto before. Now it pretty much blends in with their other songs because I'm so used to it but it really stood out when I first heard it.

[The Beatles]

On 06/09/2017 at 10:37 AM, Jenn. said:

You've won the thread 

Do I get a medal?

I see where you guys are coming from in sticking up for 21CB. It's a good point that they wouldn't have waited around for so long if they were truly cashing in, but the similarities between the two as what is quite an ambitious and unique thing (to revive the political rock opera at that time) just always struck me as weirdly close. It just always makes me wonder if I was a mistake to go for round 2, when AI broke the mould and was unique. To make another similar record just always struck me as the wrong thing to do, like they were trying to drag out the successes of AI. (Don't hate me for this, I am in a thread where I can say that!)

There are some songs on there I do like to listen to sometimes, like American Eulogy,, but some of them are just pretty shit. I'm sorry! Know Your Enemy has an awesome sound to hear live, but when you listen to it in your room for what it is, it's just one line that doesn't carry a whole lot of meaning (unless you invest one into it). And 21 Guns is too similar to All the Young Dudes for me to ever enjoy fully. 

I almost wonder if everything they did after AI up until Revolution Radio was a response to the success of AI. The fact their next album was similar, then feeling the need to do a huge trilogy rather than just release a standard rock record (sans operatics). It took them over 10 years after AI to release a standard record! Anyone else see where I'm coming from?

And I know they didn't start the trend of long songs in parts, that goes back into classical music centuries ago! I just meant in their own rock songs.

(I feel I should disclaim Green Day are my favourite band of all time and I love most of their music, I'm just being 100% honest about what I see to be their faults  )

[pacejunkie punk]

3 minutes ago, The Beatles said:

Do I get a medal?

I see where you guys are coming from in sticking up for 21CB. It's a good point that they wouldn't have waited around for so long if they were truly cashing in, but the similarities between the two as what is quite an ambitious and unique thing (to revive the political rock opera at that time) just always struck me as weirdly close. It just always makes me wonder if I was a mistake to go for round 2, when AI broke the mould and was unique. To make another similar record just always struck me as the wrong thing to do, like they were trying to drag out the successes of AI. (Don't hate me for this, I am in a thread where I can say that!)

There are some songs on there I do like to listen to sometimes, like American Eulogy,, but some of them are just pretty shit. I'm sorry! Know Your Enemy has an awesome sound to hear live, but when you listen to it in your room for what it is, it's just one line that doesn't carry a whole lot of meaning (unless you invest one into it). And 21 Guns is too similar to All the Young Dudes for me to ever enjoy fully. 

I almost wonder if everything they did after AI up until Revolution Radio was a response to the success of AI. The fact their next album was similar, then feeling the need to do a huge trilogy rather than just release a standard rock record (sans operatics). Anyone else see where I'm coming from?

And I know they didn't start the trend of long songs in parts, that goes back into classical music centuries ago! I just meant in their own rock songs.

(I feel I should disclaim Green Day are my favourite band of all time and I love most of their music, I'm just being 100% honest about what I see to be their faults  )

Clearly it wasn't a mistake because the album won them another Rock album of the year Grammy and led to their biggest tour ever so I'd say it paid off.  It seemed to me that they felt they only just started exploring the concept with AI and they felt they still had a lot more to achieve in that genre. And I do think yet again they didn't just repeat the formula but took it to another level.

Nope, they weren't even the first rock band to do long songs in parts. Apart from The Who (the reference point the band credits) there is every other progressive rock band from the seventies from Genesis to Pink Floyd)

[DeJennsitized]

2 minutes ago, The Beatles said:

Do I get a medal?

I see where you guys are coming from in sticking up for 21CB. It's a good point that they wouldn't have waited around for so long if they were truly cashing in, but the similarities between the two as what is quite an ambitious and unique thing (to revive the political rock opera at that time) just always struck me as weirdly close. It just always makes me wonder if I was a mistake to go for round 2, when AI broke the mould and was unique. To make another similar record just always struck me as the wrong thing to do, like they were trying to drag out the successes of AI. (Don't hate me for this, I am in a thread where I can say that!)

There are some songs on there I do like to listen to sometimes, like American Eulogy,, but some of them are just pretty shit. I'm sorry! Know Your Enemy has an awesome sound to hear live, but when you listen to it in your room for what it is, it's just one line that doesn't carry a whole lot of meaning (unless you invest one into it). And 21 Guns is too similar to All the Young Dudes for me to ever enjoy fully. 

I almost wonder if everything they did after AI up until Revolution Radio was a response to the success of AI. The fact their next album was similar, then feeling the need to do a huge trilogy rather than just release a standard rock record (sans operatics). Anyone else see where I'm coming from?

And I know they didn't start the trend of long songs in parts, that goes back into classical music centuries ago! I just meant in their own rock songs.

(I feel I should disclaim Green Day are my favourite band of all time and I love most of their music, I'm just being 100% honest about what I see to be their faults  )

Wow no one will hate you, I actually admire you for saying that - at least you've explained your reasons!

I guess the sticking point is that I don't see the two albums as that similar, for the reasons i said in my last post. It was a different aesthetic too, for me. And if we're gonna be picky, AI wasn't the first album they did that kinda thing. Misery was sort of multi-part - and even way back to Christie Road, which I feel has a kind of two parter vibe to it. It's always been in them, but I think AI was the total package for them in terms of the coherency and the image. 

I won't defend 21 Guns though, I've never been really into it like I am with BOBD, which is weird because they're kinda similar. 

As for the trilogy, I think they were trying to do the opposite of what they did during the 21CB process and ended up going full circle, lol. They tried too hard to have fun, and just ended up going for quantity over quality. 

[The Beatles]

Just now, pacejunkie punk said:

Clearly it wasn't a mistake because the album won them another Rock album of the year Grammy and led to their biggest tour ever so I'd say it paid off.  It seemed to me that they felt they only just started exploring the concept with AI and they felt they still had a lot more to achieve in that genre. And I do think yet again they didn't just repeat the formula but took it to another level.

Nope, they weren't even the first rock band to do long songs in parts. Apart from The Who (the reference point the band credits) there is every other progressive rock band from the seventies from Genesis to Pink Floyd)

I meant a mistake in my own eyes.

And I know, I said in their own rock songs. Trust me, I grew up with a Dad very into prog rock. I know all about it!

[UNICORN VOMIT]

9 minutes ago, The Beatles said:

Do I get a medal?

I see where you guys are coming from in sticking up for 21CB. It's a good point that they wouldn't have waited around for so long if they were truly cashing in, but the similarities between the two as what is quite an ambitious and unique thing (to revive the political rock opera at that time) just always struck me as weirdly close. It just always makes me wonder if I was a mistake to go for round 2, when AI broke the mould and was unique. To make another similar record just always struck me as the wrong thing to do, like they were trying to drag out the successes of AI. (Don't hate me for this, I am in a thread where I can say that!)

There are some songs on there I do like to listen to sometimes, like American Eulogy,, but some of them are just pretty shit. I'm sorry! Know Your Enemy has an awesome sound to hear live, but when you listen to it in your room for what it is, it's just one line that doesn't carry a whole lot of meaning (unless you invest one into it). And 21 Guns is too similar to All the Young Dudes for me to ever enjoy fully. 

I almost wonder if everything they did after AI up until Revolution Radio was a response to the success of AI. The fact their next album was similar, then feeling the need to do a huge trilogy rather than just release a standard rock record (sans operatics). It took them over 10 years after AI to release a standard record! Anyone else see where I'm coming from?

And I know they didn't start the trend of long songs in parts, that goes back into classical music centuries ago! I just meant in their own rock songs.

(I feel I should disclaim Green Day are my favourite band of all time and I love most of their music, I'm just being 100% honest about what I see to be their faults  )

I won't hate on you -   It was my first tour I managed to see the guys - its probably one of the reasons I just have a huge soft spot for this album besides it being brilliant. 

[DeJennsitized]

9 minutes ago, SHART said:

I won't hate on you -   It was my first tour I managed to see the guys - its probably one of the reasons I just have a huge soft spot for this album besides it being brilliant. 

same  i love 21CB a ridiculous amount not just because of the music but because of everything surrounding it too - my first gig, my first album release experience on the forum, the artwork....ugh it's just great and I'll always jump to its defense  

[emmericanidiot]

Literally the only thing I dislike about 21CB is the colour scheme (and that Song of The Century is a separate song, i'd prefer it added on to the start of 21st Century Breakdown) I had an album cover poster and orange did not go with my bright green bedroom walls back in '09 and I'm still not happy about it 

[AmyxLongview]

I can see why some people wouldn't like 21CB; they did borrow some elements from AI and tried to make the music even more epic. Like a lot of other people on here, it was my first album release and concert so it's sentimental to me  I remember being super excited when the demo to the title track leaked and watching live videos of the songs before the album came out. Good times!

[RougeRogue]

On 9/6/2017 at 1:39 PM, pacejunkie punk said:

I didn't like 21 Guns when it first came out, not sure why but it was slow and poppy and the chorus didn't grab me.

It is still perhaps my absolute least favorite Green Day song of all time. And probably purely because of the slowness.

And really...it's mostly the opening that's really annoying to sit through. It's ok live. I wonder if I would have liked it more if it was a Ordinary World type of acoustic song. I've grown very fond of acoustic stuff in my proper adulthood

3 hours ago, SHART said:

I'm sorry! Know Your Enemy has an awesome sound to hear live, but when you listen to it in your room for what it is, it's just one line that doesn't carry a whole lot of meaning (unless you invest one into it).

But if you experienced the premiere of that song and that video, ugh omg, what a time to be alive! Bits of it premiered in a spot for an NBA/basketball promo and to this day I can still play in my head the exact sounds and moments that went with it because for a while that was the only recording of it we had.

Then the video came out and it was so polarized on opinions.

So I have a fondness for it still because it was just...REBIRTH in GDC, not dissimilar to Bang Bang's arrival.

[UNICORN VOMIT]

@RougeRogue I didn't say that 

[RougeRogue]

13 hours ago, SHART said:

@RougeRogue I didn't say that 

A flaw in the quote system. I had copied the text within what you had quoted. Oh well.

[zeldachick14]

I can't stand Jeff matika, and I don't think I'll ever qualify him as "part of the band" like Jason freeze and Jason white 

[Spike]

1 minute ago, zeldachick14 said:

I can't stand Jeff matika, and I don't think I'll ever qualify him as "part of the band" like Jason freeze and Jason white 

Has he upset you on Twitter too then?  

[Beerjeezus]

6 hours ago, zeldachick14 said:

I can't stand Jeff matika, and I don't think I'll ever qualify him as "part of the band" like Jason freeze and Jason white