WhiteTim Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 Fair to like it.but relate to it? I was joking anyway Well yes... It's depressing and since I'm going thru depression Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anaïs. Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 I get that you think the lyrics are bad but as always your opinion is no more objective than mine, believe it or not some people actually do think they're good and aren't just being "apologists". The very fact that you're trying to prove to us that the lyrics are good means you think your interpretation is more objective than ours. I'm all for subjectivity, but there comes a point where you have to cast it aside and say the lyrics are either good or bad. Whether you and I enjoy/don't enjoy them is a different matter. I love Trapped in the Closet but I would never have the audacity to say that it has objectively good lyrics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
green day is Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 A lot of rap is so vile... it is not unrelatable but it is so repulsive that it does not need to be heard beyond the very first line. Cool opinion, I respect it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermione Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 ugh Haha! It's just funny that there's actually so much to interpret in a line that's deliberately totally silly and ridiculous. It's fun 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
green day is Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 The very fact that you're trying to prove to us that the lyrics are good means you think your interpretation is more objective than ours. nigga you're the one that's bringing out logical fallacies and shit. Actually talking about ideas requires have some means of backing them up, discussions would be absolutely shit if we all just said "I like it" and "I don't like it" and moved on. What's the point of that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z J Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 Haha! It's just funny that there's actually so much to interpret in a line that's deliberately totally silly and ridiculous. It's fun And the battle rages on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
green day is Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 I would never have the audacity to say that it has objectively good Is that because there's no such thing as "objectively good"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z J Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 nigga you're the one that's bringing out logical fallacies and shit. Actually talking about ideas requires have some means of backing them up, discussions would be absolutely shit if we all just said "I like it" and "I don't like it" and moved on. What's the point of that? You straw manned me not 20 minutes ago. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anaïs. Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 nigga you're the one that's bringing out logical fallacies and shit. Actually talking about ideas requires have some means of backing them up, discussions would be absolutely shit if we all just said "I like it" and "I don't like it" and moved on. What's the point of that? I agree that they would be shit. I'm not saying we shouldn't discuss it. I'm saying that clearly each of us thinks the other is wrong and thus each of us thinks that there is a right answer to the question. I was making a point about the balance of objectivity/subjectivity, not saying we should drop the debate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HARVESTER Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 When it comes to lyrics being good or bad... it is all opinion... there is no objective opinion... might be better to say that the consensus seems to be that certain things are worse than they could have been. Down with Kids Bop! Down with "Drama Queen" and down with "Kill the DJ"! the rest of the Trilogy was fine in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anaïs. Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 Is that because there's no such thing as "objectively good"? No, it's because Trapped in the Closet is objectively awful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HARVESTER Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 No, it's because Trapped in the Closet is objectively awful. Avril Lavigne's "Hot" lyrics could be frightening when you think about it... but what does that have to do with the Trilogy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermione Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 The very fact that you're trying to prove to us that the lyrics are good means you think your interpretation is more objective than ours. I'm all for subjectivity, but there comes a point where you have to cast it aside and say the lyrics are either good or bad. Whether you and I enjoy/don't enjoy them is a different matter. I love Trapped in the Closet but I would never have the audacity to say that it has objectively good lyrics. I accept if you think they're bad and am always happy to hear reasons why, just saying when I think they're good and why in return. I will argue if I think they have meaning or make sense if someone claims otherwise as I think those things can be looked at more objectively, but as for being good or bad I don't think there can be a lot of objectivity there. But it's still fun to discuss. Trapped In The Closet is one thing we can agree on btw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike Posted May 10, 2014 Author Share Posted May 10, 2014 A lot of rap is so vile... it is not unrelatable but it is so repulsive that it does not need to be heard beyond the very first line. I feel this way about the song, "Drama Queen" even though it is not rap. Are you really making ignorant comments about rap when Hermione's online? Brave. As for Drama Queen, I take it you're referring to the "old enough to bleed" line? Because I used to feel that way until Hermione convinced me I was wrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anaïs. Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 Avril Lavigne's "Hot" lyrics could be frightening when you think about it... but what does that have to do with the Trilogy? Go back and read the actual post where I mentioned it. Basically, I was saying that while I enjoy Trapped in the Closet, I cannot call it good, and I think the same applies for the Trilogy; you can like stuff from it, but calling it good is a different matter. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
green day is Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 You straw manned me not 20 minutes ago. 1. Who gives a shit 2. This thread moves fast. I was addressing the opposite "division" about the trilogy at once, the thread was already on the topic of Troublemaker while you were still on SD&V so that's what was on my mind. 3. dicks lol I agree that they would be shit. I'm not saying we shouldn't discuss it. I'm saying that clearly each of us thinks the other is wrong and thus each of us thinks that there is a right answer to the question. I was making a point about the balance of objectivity/subjectivity, not saying we should drop the debate. I don't think anyone's wrong, I think certain reasons are bad ones and my reasons are good ones. That's how opinions work. The strongest reason in the end, though, is "it appeals/does not appeal to me personally" and nobody's gonna try to break that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z J Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 1. Who gives a shit You do, you just complained about fallacies. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HARVESTER Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 Are you really making ignorant comments about rap when Hermione's online? Brave. As for Drama Queen, I take it you're referring to the "old enough to bleed" line? Because I used to feel that way until Hermione convinced me I was wrong You are talking to someone who prefers The Beasty Boys of the 90s over a lot of things produced in the modern rap era... and yes, that line is flat sickening. I'd like to see this convincing conversation... lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
green day is Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 You do, you just complained about fallacies. No I didn't, I complained about DP pointing out fallacies in Hermione's argument and then talking about people trying to prove others wrong. In essence I complained about someone complaining about fallacies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike Posted May 10, 2014 Author Share Posted May 10, 2014 You are talking to someone who prefers The Beasty Boys of the 90s over a lot of things produced in the modern rap era... and yes, that line is flat sickening. I'd like to see this convincing conversation... lol The short version is that it's a reference to young girls who get dragged into fame when they're not old enough to deal with it. Which is a fair point given the rest of the lyrics, and it's supposedly meant to be uncomfortable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
green day is Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 that line is flat sickening "menstruation's icky! right guys?!?!" It's a symbol of maturity in nearly every culture in the world. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anaïs. Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 No I didn't, I complained about DP pointing out fallacies in Hermione's argument and then talking about people trying to prove others wrong. In essence I complained about someone complaining about fallacies. Except I wasn't complaining about trying to prove others wrong, just pointing out her fallacy in telling me I can't prove others wrong and then trying to prove me wrong. So you committed ANOTHER FALLACY! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
green day is Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 Except I wasn't complaining about trying to prove others wrong, just pointing out here fallacy in telling me I can't prove others wrong and then trying to prove me wrong. So you committed ANOTHER FALLACY! You lost me. Either way, this isn't a formal debate so 1. Who gives a shit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HARVESTER Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 The short version is that it's a reference to young girls who get dragged into fame when they're not old enough to deal with it. Which is a fair point given the rest of the lyrics, and it's supposedly meant to be uncomfortable. That is a very convincing explanation. However, it seems like a very adult topic for an 8 year old who might be singing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z J Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 I accept if you think they're bad and am always happy to hear reasons why, just saying when I think they're good and why in return. I will argue if I think they have meaning or make sense if someone claims otherwise as I think those things can be looked at more objectively, but as for being good or bad I don't think there can be a lot of objectivity there. But it's still fun to discuss. Trapped In The Closet is one thing we can agree on btw explain my signature then and all of its glorious context 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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