Blasphemy & Genocide: Unpopular Green Day Opinions, Part 2

[HARVESTER]

IMO the lyrics on the trilogy are just as good as the lyrics on any GD album, and I find most of them very relatable.

I just hope that no crazy people take the song "Kill The DJ" literally.

[Spike]

I just hope that no crazy people take the song "Kill The DJ" literally.

I know, right? I'd hate for anyone to go walking in a park in New York at night.

[DookieLukie]

As a general rule, whenever I really like something everyone else hates, I just say it's a social commentary to gain respect back.

[Anaïs.]

I haven't seen any convoluted explanations of (for example) the Sex Drugs and Violence chorus, only ones that accurately explain the clear meanings behind it. But I'd prefer that to the other extreme of simply saying "nope, it has no meaning or value whatsoever and I'm not going to into it any further than that", being so dismissive seems a pretty boring way of looking at lyrics.

You said this about Troublemaker in the last thread:

:

There is! Imagine there's this obnoxious character "standing at the traffic lights" checking out this woman and saying "I like your BMW" that she's driving. Then it sounds like he's about to compliment another vehicle that might be in the road, a BMX, but in fact he's following up his compliment to her car with a compliment to her tits. The joke is that the sentence changes halfway through from an innocent comment to a lecherous comment. Makes sense, and it's in a silly style to fit with the character and the lighthearted feel of the song.

There is absolutely no justification for this explanation. There's nothing in the song to suggest this, especially because that's not something anyone ever does. What you and other Trilogy apologists like to do is something called "pouring your own concrete". The analogy is this: the Trilogy is a shitty road full of a lot of potholes. But you guys bring along your own cement and pour it in to fill in the potholes. It makes the ride more enjoyable for you, but in the end it's not the original material that made it that way, it's you adding your own material, which wasn't there in the first place, to justify it. In the end, Occam's Razor says that in all likelihood Billie didn't have some wildly convoluted explanation for the Trilogy's cringeworthy lyrics—they're just bad. And even if they did have some convoluted explanation, the fact that that explanation isn't at all clear upon just listening to the song and reading the lyrics is poor songwriting.

[Spike]

You said this about Troublemaker in the last thread:

There is absolutely no justification for this explanation. There's nothing in the song to suggest this, especially because that's not something anyone ever does. What you and other Trilogy apologists like to do is something called "pouring your own concrete". The analogy is this: the Trilogy is a shitty road full of a lot of potholes. But you guys bring along your own cement and pour it in to fill in the potholes. It makes the ride more enjoyable for you, but in the end it's not the original material that made it that way, it's you adding your own material, which wasn't there in the first place, to justify it. In the end, Occam's Razor says that in all likelihood Billie didn't have some wildly convoluted explanation for the Trilogy's cringeworthy lyrics—they're just bad. And even if they did have some convoluted explanation, the fact that that explanation isn't at all clear upon just listening to the song and reading the lyrics is poor songwriting.

In Hermione's defence (although I do agree the lyrics to Troublemaker are just ridiculous), some of the best lyrics are ones where you have to fill in the gaps, so I don't see anything wrong with that in itself. I'm pretty sure Billie's done that intentionally at times. Like with how so many people relate to Jesus Of Suburbia - Billie wrote that about a character, and people apply parts of it to their own lives by shoehorning it into different contexts. That's one of my favourite things about music, tbh.

[Z J]

Troublemaker's lyrics are comical because they're obviously meant to be silly. Taking a single line out doesn't show that because the whole

also

How do you know about whom he's speaking if you don't look at it in context?

I would argue that the Chump lyric stands alone quite well. It is made better by the fact that I find it humorous. Troublemakers lyrics are just dumb. I agree they are meant to be silly. And I never said a thing about the song anyway I was talking about SD&V.

But the difference between the humor in Chump and Troublemaker is that Chump's is a far more nuanced type of humor where the narrator may not even mean to be funny.

I never once said you can't look at a lyric in context. Having a meaning CAN help a lyric but it doesn't mean it is saved by that. Like SD&V, which is the song i was talking about.

Anything else?

[DookieLukie]

I fear for any person that finds Nightlife relatable

I knew two girls that did. I bet a lot of happening college kids do too if they heard it. It's part of Poe's Law: For every person who finds something ridiculous, there's 3 people who find it relatable/think it's cool/aspire to be it.

[Anaïs.]

In Hermione's defence (although I do agree the lyrics to Troublemaker are just ridiculous), some of the best lyrics are ones where you have to fill in the gaps, so I don't see anything wrong with that in itself. I'm pretty sure Billie's done that intentionally at times. Like with how so many people relate to Jesus Of Suburbia - Billie wrote that about a character, and people apply parts of it to their own lives by shoehorning it into different contexts. That's one of my favourite things about music, tbh.

Oh yeah, agreed. There's a difference, though, between having ambiguous places and being totally inscrutable. I'd say that JOS is the former—there are vaguer spots, but the message of the song and what it's trying to say are pretty clear over all. Whereas with the Trilogy, we get The Forgotten.

[WhiteTim]

I fear for any person that finds Nightlife relatable

I like Billie's part of Nightlife...

[Z J]

I like Billie's part of Nightlife...

Fair to like it….but relate to it? I was joking anyway

[Clockwise]

Well, Nightlife is just a fun song and I do find the lust and sense of dread in Billie's vocals/lyrics to be relatable.

[Z J]

Whereas with the Trilogy, we get The Forgotten.

See: signature

[Clockwise]

I have no idea what you find so bad about The Forgotten. I think the song and lyrics are pretty fantastic.

[HARVESTER]

You said this about Troublemaker in the last thread:

There is absolutely no justification for this explanation. There's nothing in the song to suggest this, especially because that's not something anyone ever does. What you and other Trilogy apologists like to do is something called "pouring your own concrete". The analogy is this: the Trilogy is a shitty road full of a lot of potholes. But you guys bring along your own cement and pour it in to fill in the potholes. It makes the ride more enjoyable for you, but in the end it's not the original material that made it that way, it's you adding your own material, which wasn't there in the first place, to justify it. In the end, Occam's Razor says that in all likelihood Billie didn't have some wildly convoluted explanation for the Trilogy's cringeworthy lyrics—they're just bad. And even if they did have some convoluted explanation, the fact that that explanation isn't at all clear upon just listening to the song and reading the lyrics is poor songwriting.

Keep in mind that the writing of the lyrics is something that is relatable to the author of them, not necessarily everyone else. They can be filled with metaphors and sometimes they might even skip around like Attention Deficit Disorder. Sometimes it may be pointless to explain something unless you have lived the life of the author.

[Z J]

I have no idea what you find so bad about The Forgotten. I think the song and lyrics are pretty fantastic.

It is one big vague cliche

[Hermione]

I think I'm just bored of the same examples of bad trilogy lyrics being posted over and over again when they're not even good examples to pick, lol.

You said this about Troublemaker in the last thread:

There is absolutely no justification for this explanation. There's nothing in the song to suggest this, especially because that's not something anyone ever does. What you and other Trilogy apologists like to do is something called "pouring your own concrete". The analogy is this: the Trilogy is a shitty road full of a lot of potholes. But you guys bring along your own cement and pour it in to fill in the potholes. It makes the ride more enjoyable for you, but in the end it's not the original material that made it that way, it's you adding your own material, which wasn't there in the first place, to justify it. In the end, Occam's Razor says that in all likelihood Billie didn't have some wildly convoluted explanation for the Trilogy's cringeworthy lyrics—they're just bad. And even if they did have some convoluted explanation, the fact that that explanation isn't at all clear upon just listening to the song and reading the lyrics is poor songwriting.

I don't "bring cement to fill in the potholes" though, I just listen to, talk about and try to interpret the lyrics just like I've been doing with all their other songs on here for years, I feel exactly the same attempting to interpret a trilogy lyric (in my usual rambling way!) as any other, I promise . I get that you think the lyrics are bad but as always your opinion is no more objective than mine, believe it or not some people actually do think they're good and aren't just being "apologists".

By the way I knew that particular example was silly when I wrote it, because trying to explain a silly line in minute detail like that is going to be silly . All I was basically trying to say in that first bit is hearing "I like your BMW" before "I like your BMX" makes the line then turning into "I like your BMXcellent tits" more of a surprise than if he'd just said "I like your BMXcellent tits", since it means it's breaking a pattern. See even that sounds silly, but then explaining obvious things usually does.

[Anaïs.]

Keep in mind that the writing of the lyrics is something that is relatable to the author of them, not necessarily everyone else. They can be filled with metaphors and sometimes they might even skip around like Attention Deficit Disorder. Sometimes it may be pointless to explain somethng unless you have lived the life of the author.

But if the author expects me to buy his product, I expect to be able to relate to it in some form or fashion. If you're writing solely for yourself, fine, keep a diary. If you're writing for the public, it's your job to write something that the public can understand and/or relate to. And if you deliberately don't do that and then complain when no one understands your lyrics, I have no sympathy.

[Z J]

Keep in mind that the writing of the lyrics is something that is relatable to the author of them, not necessarily everyone else. They can be filled with metaphors and sometimes they might even skip around like Attention Deficit Disorder. Sometimes it may be pointless to explain somethng unless you have lived the life of the author.

But that's just it, I think a song's lyrics increase in value quite a bit when they appear to mean something to the author, even if I can't relate. Lazy Bones, for example. Decent lyrics but I think the pain that Billie experienced while writing it adds a value to it.

On the other hand, you have Makeout Party. How a 40 year old married man relates to Makeout Party is beyond me

[Clockwise]

It is one big vague cliche

Well yeah, I guess it is vague, but I enjoy that aspect about it. I like songs that can be interpreted in different ways.

I wouldn't agree to it being a big cliche, though. Even if some parts are, it's only cliche because it works, haha.

[green day is]

You said this about Troublemaker in the last thread:

There is absolutely no justification for this explanation. There's nothing in the song to suggest this, especially because that's not something anyone ever does. What you and other Trilogy apologists like to do is something called "pouring your own concrete". The analogy is this: the Trilogy is a shitty road full of a lot of potholes. But you guys bring along your own cement and pour it in to fill in the potholes. It makes the ride more enjoyable for you, but in the end it's not the original material that made it that way, it's you adding your own material, which wasn't there in the first place, to justify it. In the end, Occam's Razor says that in all likelihood Billie didn't have some wildly convoluted explanation for the Trilogy's cringeworthy lyrics—they're just bad. And even if they did have some convoluted explanation, the fact that that explanation isn't at all clear upon just listening to the song and reading the lyrics is poor songwriting.

What do you mean? The narrator of the song certainly counts as a character and all the things Hermione stated in that quote are found in the song except that he's necessarily obnoxious (a personal judgment) and that the girl was necessarily driving the BMW.

Either way, the lyrics are still meant to be completely without depth. To judge it by how clever it is or how much meaning it has is to judge it for something it's not. Are you guys the kind of people that say rap's bad for lyrics like "I almost drowned in her pussy, so I swam to her butt" as if Lil Wayne really thinks that's a deep, genius line?

Sometimes lyrics are ridiculous for the sake of being ridiculous. That's Occam's Razor, not assuming the guy with multiple critically acclaimed albums just suddenly forgot how to write well for an entire song.

I knew two girls that did. I bet a lot of happening college kids do too if they heard it. It's part of Poe's Law: For every person who finds something ridiculous, there's 3 people who find it relatable/think it's cool/aspire to be it.

That's not Poe's Law at all. What even.

[HARVESTER]

By the way I knew that particular example was silly when I wrote it, because trying to explain a silly line in minute detail like that is going to be silly . All I was basically trying to say is hearing "I like your BMW" before "I like your BMX" makes the line then turning into "I like your BMXcellent tits" more of a surprise than if he'd just said "I like your BMXcellent tits", since it means it's breaking a pattern.

It sounds like you are attempting to say that their head got turned to watch someone while they were starting to say " I like your BMX" and they couldnt help talking about their chest in mid sentence... it is not that uncommon a thing when you consider that people's thoughts get interrupted on a near daily basis.

But if the author expects me to buy his product, I expect to be able to relate to it in some form or fashion. If you're writing solely for yourself, fine, keep a diary. If you're writing for the public, it's your job to write something that the public can understand and/or relate to. And if you deliberately don't do that and then complain when no one understands your lyrics, I have no sympathy.

If one person has an experience they feel the need to talk about, sometimes they find other people with the same or similar experience by sharing it. Just because you do not empathize does not mean that someone else will not.

[Z J]

Either way, the lyrics are still meant to be completely without depth. To judge it by how clever it is or how much meaning it has is to judge it for something it's not. Are you guys the kind of people that say rap's bad for lyrics like "I almost drowned in her pussy, so I swam to her butt" as if Lil Wayne really thinks that's a deep, genius line?

Sometimes lyrics are ridiculous for the sake of being ridiculous. That's Occam's Razor, not assuming the guy with multiple critically acclaimed albums just suddenly forgot how to write well for an entire song.

A bad lyric is a bad lyric. I have seen hundreds of occasions in which Billie or author artists write intentionally ridiculous but far better than what we get on the trilogy.

See: Blood sex and booze.

Also, there are songs on the trilogy that appear to be serious yet lack the wit and creativity of their past work for sure

[Hermione]

It sounds like you are attempting to say that their head got turned to watch someone while they were starting to say " I like your BMX" and they couldnt help talking about their chest in mid sentence... it is not that uncommon a thing when you consider that people's thoughts get interrupted on a near daily basis.

I like that! More meaning being added to this line by the day

[Z J]

Well yeah, I guess it is vague, but I enjoy that aspect about it. I like songs that can be interpreted in different ways.

I wouldn't agree to it being a big cliche, though. Even if some parts are, it's only cliche because it works, haha.

I like that about songs too, but that applies to songs like JOS. The Forgotten just simply doesn't make any sense.

I like that! More meaning being added to this line by the day

ugh

[HARVESTER]

What do you mean? The narrator of the song certainly counts as a character and all the things Hermione stated in that quote are found in the song except that he's necessarily obnoxious (a personal judgment) and that the girl was necessarily driving the BMW.

Either way, the lyrics are still meant to be completely without depth. To judge it by how clever it is or how much meaning it has is to judge it for something it's not. Are you guys the kind of people that say rap's bad for lyrics like "I almost drowned in her pussy, so I swam to her butt" as if Lil Wayne really thinks that's a deep, genius line?

Sometimes lyrics are ridiculous for the sake of being ridiculous. That's Occam's Razor, not assuming the guy with multiple critically acclaimed albums just suddenly forgot how to write well for an entire song.

That's not Poe's Law at all. What even.

A lot of rap is so vile... it is not unrelatable but it is so repulsive that it does not need to be heard beyond the very first line. I feel this way about the song, "Drama Queen" even though it is not rap.