Blasphemy & Genocide: Unpopular Green Day Opinions, Part 2

[WhiteTim]

WOW, That's Loud... then what happened with Uno, Dos and Tre??, was that not produced by Rob uncle, or he was way too busy?

The production on trilogy sounding different is Green Day using clean tones something they haven't done before and Billie refusing to lower his pitch effect lower

[Todd]

Chill, Chill. god it's turning out to be another world war!!

stop throwing rocks, and maybe people won't attack you

[Akshat Jain]

stop throwing rocks, and maybe people won't attack you

hey .. i wasn't throwing rocks, i was just watching the woodstock 94'

The production on trilogy sounding different is Green Day using clean tones something they haven't done before and Billie refusing to lower his pitch effect lower

wait wait wait.. if this was the case, then what about those demos in demolicious, they were recorded before..aarrrrggghhh... it's way too difficult to understand what's going in GD's minD!!

[captain peroxide]

Ah, you're all fucking wrong. American Idiot was a huge change-up in terms of everything.

Tom, how can you say the songwriting's the same as on previous albums? It's far more complex, they veered away from that classic pop punk sound and went for straight up rock. It's far more grandiose and ambitious, (and actually pulls it off, unlike the sprawling 21CB), the scope is larger, there's more guitar parts, along with other instruments they had only flirted with before.

hey .. i wasn't throwing rocks, i was just watching the woodstock 94'

You're my favorite.

[Spike]

Sound got bigger yes but the actual production itself was set up the way Cavallo liked

What do you mean? The actual method of production is irrelevant, it sounds different regardless.

Ah, you're all fucking wrong. American Idiot was a huge change-up in terms of everything.

Tom, how can you say the songwriting's the same as on previous albums? It's far more complex, they veered away from that classic pop punk sound and went for straight up rock. It's far more grandiose and ambitious, (and actually pulls it off, unlike the sprawling 21CB), the scope is larger, there's more guitar parts, along with other instruments they had only flirted with before

The arrangements may be bigger (although nothing compared to 21CB obviously), but like I said, the songwriting itself only really changed in the sense that it was more focused and made for a far more cohesive album than they've ever done before. If you take individual songs at face value not many of them are a massive departure. The title track and Holiday, for example, would have fit in well on Warning. Most of the songs are still 4/4, 4 chord arrangements with well placed backing vocals and a few funky structures thrown in. It's pure Green Day.

[WhiteTim]

What do you mean? The actual method of production is irrelevant, it sounds different regardless.

It sounds different cause of the music and the different amps if they recorded it with the same set up as Nimrod it'd be Nimrod part two sound wise

AI was NOT that drastic of a change up as 21st was you as a producer should know that Tom

[Spike]

It sounds different cause of the music and the different amps if they recorded it with the same set up as Nimrod it'd be Nimrod part two sound wise

AI was NOT that drastic of a change up as 21st was you as a producer should know that Tom

So are you saying that the amp setup, which results in a different sound, is irrelevant to the production?

I never said Breakdown wasn't a bigger departure, obviously it was and I'd never argue against that.

[Hermione]

American Idiot was a huge change-up in terms of everything.

Until just now I thought this was a universally held fact!

[WhiteTim]

So are you saying that the amp setup, which results in a different sound, is irrelevant to the production?

I never said Breakdown wasn't a bigger departure, obviously it was and I'd never argue against that.

First question no I'm not saying that I'm saying from a production stand point Cavallo did his usual tricks...

And second that is my whole argument is that Breakdown is their first real drastic departure and that's what me and capt are disagreeing about

[Hermione]

It sounds different cause of the music and the different amps if they recorded it with the same set up as Nimrod it'd be Nimrod part two sound wise

AI was NOT that drastic of a change up as 21st was you as a producer should know that Tom

I'd say 21st CB took things further, but it was nowhere near as big a change/surprise after AI (where they'd already set the precedent of making ambitious, epic rock) as AI was after all their previous albums. AI set the foundation for them to go even further musically with 21st CB, making 21st CB less of a dramatic change and more of a continuation.

[WhiteTim]

I'd say 21st CB took things further, but it was nowhere near as big a change/surprise after AI (where they'd already set the precedent of making ambitious, epic rock) as AI was after all their previous albums. AI set the foundation for them to go even further musically with 21st CB, making 21st CB less of a dramatic change and more of a continuation.

I'm talking about sound not fans reactions...

[Hermione]

I'm talking about sound not fans reactions...

Well so am I, American Idiot was a surprise because it sounded different to what came previously (all their albums from 39/Smooth to Warning). 21st CB was less of a surprise because it sounded less different to what came previously (American Idiot).

[Akshat Jain]

Well so am I, American Idiot was a surprise because it sounded different to what came previously (all their albums from 39/Smooth to Warning). 21st CB was less of a surprise because it sounded less different to what came previously (American Idiot).

and Triology, box full of surprises couriered all the way from Hogwarts.

[KGLWW]

Quite the opposite, actually. Troublemaker and Nightlife are better songs than State of Shock. I just don't like them very much. Actually, fuck y'all, I like Troublemaker quite a lot. But anyway. Purely by virtue of being creative and trying something new, I consider them to be better additions to the trilogy than State of Shock (not technically part of the trilogy, but you get my point regardless), even if I don't actually enjoy listening to them much.

When a band's been around this long, creativity and the ability to try new things is incredibly important, possibly more important than anything else. With a few important exceptions, I'd rather a band release a bad album that at least was trying something new instead of rehashing the same formula over and over with no evolution. I respect that most people probably feel differently, but yeah.

The thing is tho that those songs aren't really doing anything different. Nightlife is just a cop out in songwriting to say hey we've done that before, let's cross it off our list. It's misery but with rap. Anybody can do rap, it really isn't that hard. And it just doesn't stand up to past green day lyrics. At least state of shock's lyrics read like green day lyrics. Nightlife doesn't advance their career or grow them towards being better musicians, like with nimrod or warning. And troublemaker sounds like all the time with even crappier lyrics and i feel like billie wrote it in like 3 minutes. He didn't even try with these songs that's my point. Doing different isn't always positive or noteworthy. The trilogy was subpar because they regressed for the most part. Almost none of the songs fit in their current setlists.

[DookieLukie]

Until just now I thought this was a universally held fact!

Nothing is Truth in the Unpopular Opinions Thread!

[Bastard of 1969]

Nothing is Truth in the Unpopular Opinions Thread!

That is no truth.

[Spike]

Ignorant comment about rap alert.

[captain peroxide]

The arrangements may be bigger (although nothing compared to 21CB obviously), but like I said, the songwriting itself only really changed in the sense that it was more focused and made for a far more cohesive album than they've ever done before. If you take individual songs at face value not many of them are a massive departure. The title track and Holiday, for example, would have fit in well on Warning. Most of the songs are still 4/4, 4 chord arrangements with well placed backing vocals and a few funky structures thrown in. It's pure Green Day.

Holiday and AI, maybe, but that's only if you ignore their place in the overall political context of the album. And those are about the only songs that would've fit on Warning, and that's with different instrumentation.

And no, it's fucking Green Day, of course they're not going to stop playing mostly power chord 4/4 music, but it's still more ambitious and complex than anything they'd come close to before, even from a purely musical sense.

Until just now I thought this was a universally held fact!

It is a fact, people just get huge boners for 21CB and want to claim it was a more important album than it actually was.

The thing is tho that those songs aren't really doing anything different. Nightlife is just a cop out in songwriting to say hey we've done that before, let's cross it off our list. It's misery but with rap. Anybody can do rap, it really isn't that hard. And it just doesn't stand up to past green day lyrics. At least state of shock's lyrics read like green day lyrics. Nightlife doesn't advance their career or grow them towards being better musicians, like with nimrod or warning. And troublemaker sounds like all the time with even crappier lyrics and i feel like billie wrote it in like 3 minutes. He didn't even try with these songs that's my point. Doing different isn't always positive or noteworthy. The trilogy was subpar because they regressed for the most part. Almost none of the songs fit in their current setlists.

You're not saying anything concrete here. Saying "well rap is easy, so it doesn't count as trying something new" is like saying "well, I've never eaten grilled cheese before, but since making one was so easy, it doesn't count as a new food experience." It's just wrong. Also, Green Day have gotten more out of 4 chords than any other band in history, so you can't really talk about it being an easy style of music. You cannot be a great musician without listening to a lot of different genres of music, and you're an idiot if you think otherwise. Billie may not have pulled off a rap song, but the fact that he listens to rap and gave it a try is purely positive.

Whether you like it or not, it is unlike anything they've tried before. It doesn't matter if you don't think it's good, you cannot dispute they've never made a song like Nightlife or Troublemaker before. Green Day don't really need to "advance their careers," which is why them trying new shit is so important. It shows they still care about making music, rather than continuing to just make money, or pay lip service to the fans who want every album to be Dookie. I guess we'll just fundamentally disagree about different not always being positive or noteworthy, because I feel it is. The fact that Nightlife is so different is just about the only positive fucking thing about it, but I will still respect it more for that than anything else.

[WhiteTim]

It is a fact, people just get huge boners for 21CB and want to claim it was a more important album than it actually was.

Oh I'd never say Breakdown is more important than AI cause it's not just that it's their first true drastic change of production for them

[Spike]

And no, it's fucking Green Day, of course they're not going to stop playing mostly power chord 4/4 music, but it's still more ambitious and complex than anything they'd come close to before, even from a purely musical sense.

I didn't deny that. I even said the arrangements are where they really stepped up, but from a pure songwriting context it's not new. They really captured the zeitgeist of the time and Billie's lyrics were obviously very relevant politically, but he's always been a very intelligent lyricist. Maybe we're just looking at it differently in that I've always seen songwriting and arranging as two very different distinct disciplines.

[KGLWW]

Ignorant comment about rap alert.

I'm not saying anyone can do at it's best. But it's the easiest type of music to make mediocre.

[WhiteTim]

I'm not saying anyone can do at it's best. But it's the easiest type of music to make mediocre.

Any genre of music is easy to make mediocre...

[KGLWW]

Holiday and AI, maybe, but that's only if you ignore their place in the overall political context of the album. And those are about the only songs that would've fit on Warning, and that's with different instrumentation.

And no, it's fucking Green Day, of course they're not going to stop playing mostly power chord 4/4 music, but it's still more ambitious and complex than anything they'd come close to before, even from a purely musical sense.

It is a fact, people just get huge boners for 21CB and want to claim it was a more important album than it actually was.

You're not saying anything concrete here. Saying "well rap is easy, so it doesn't count as trying something new" is like saying "well, I've never eaten grilled cheese before, but since making one was so easy, it doesn't count as a new food experience." It's just wrong. Also, Green Day have gotten more out of 4 chords than any other band in history, so you can't really talk about it being an easy style of music. You cannot be a great musician without listening to a lot of different genres of music, and you're an idiot if you think otherwise. Billie may not have pulled off a rap song, but the fact that he listens to rap and gave it a try is purely positive.

Whether you like it or not, it is unlike anything they've tried before. It doesn't matter if you don't think it's good, you cannot dispute they've never made a song like Nightlife or Troublemaker before. Green Day don't really need to "advance their careers," which is why them trying new shit is so important. It shows they still care about making music, rather than continuing to just make money, or pay lip service to the fans who want every album to be Dookie. I guess we'll just fundamentally disagree about different not always being positive or noteworthy, because I feel it is. The fact that Nightlife is so different is just about the only positive fucking thing about it, but I will still respect it more for that than anything else.

How the fuck would you know what i listen to, so just be quiet. And the 4 chord thing is just dead wrong. Maybe for pop-punk but not for rock music overall. And you certainly don't have to like rap music at all to be a good musician. That really doesn't make a lot of sense. You can't tell me most rap music isn't really annoying and shallow. Not that I really want to force that opinion on people, I just really don't like most of it. Music is mostly opinion anyway so to say I'm ignorant (not you) is about as ignorant as it gets.

Any genre of music is easy to make mediocre...

Easiest is the key word or easiest to make really really bad.

[WhiteTim]

How the fuck would you know what i listen to, so just be quiet. And the 4 chord thing is just dead wrong. Maybe for pop-punk but not for rock music overall. And you certainly don't have to like rap music at all to be a good musician. That really doesn't make a lot of sense. You can't tell me most rap music isn't really annoying and shallow. Not that I really want to force that opinion on people, I just really don't like most of it. Music is mostly opinion anyway so to say I'm ignorant (not you) is about as ignorant as it gets.

Easiest is the key word or easiest to make really really bad.

I take it you don't really listen to rap? I can name several artists who uses live instruments and complex lyrics and music structure but sadly mainstream radio prefers simple shit

[KGLWW]

No i mean i've heard like more instrumental or instrumental sampling. I've just never heard a rapper that was that good at rapping. Maybe like eminem or a few other people. But I just don't get the appeal of listening to it. Seems a lot more fun to do it rather than to actually listen to it.