Anaïs. Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Nimrod is probably objectively their best album besides maybe AI. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike Posted June 21, 2014 Author Share Posted June 21, 2014 Nimrod is probably objectively their best album besides maybe AI. Breakdown though? Although this is a conversation I'm very keen to have. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anaïs. Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Breakdown though? Although this is a conversation I'm very keen to have. As much as I love Breakdown, there are holes. Comparing it to Nimrod. in a lineup: Production Nimrod.: Crisp and clear. The guitars are nice and wet with just the right amount of distortion, the bass isn't too high in the mix but still plenty audible, and the drums have the most kick of any Green Day album. When experimental instruments (strings, horns etc.) are incorporated, they avoid sounding overly out of place or cheesy. 21CB: The Wall of Sound techniques for the guitars are fabulous. String sections are sweeping and epic, and the broken-down feel of the piano bits works well. Bass is nonexistent, drums lack the kick they have in previous albums. Compression is a bitch. Music Nimrod.: Contains some of the band's absolute best work. It's a blast of energy—nearly all of the songs are short and punchy, but they avoid sounding similar despite the three-chord format. "Hitchin' a Ride" and "Good Riddance" are obviously two of the most distinctive songs they've done. Experimentation is a huge factor, livening it up hugely compared to its predecessors. 21CB: Much of it is totally epic, but objectively several songs (KYE, Christian's Inferno [much as it pains me to say that], LOTAG/Murder City) are bland and nothing we haven't heard before. These weak links lack the energy and fun that even Nimrod.'s weaker tracks, with the possible exception of "Nice Guys Finish Last" and the definite exception of "Last Ride In", possess. Mike's bass lines are sorely missed. Experimentation is again a huge factor and is wildly successful. Lyrics Nimrod.: Nary a weak link here. Despite the fact that Billie wrote most of the lyrics in studio, I can't think of a single poorly written song on the album besides "Take Back", which I half-maintain is deliberately crappy. "Good Riddance" may be, in its simplicity, the best songwriting Billie's ever done. Humorous wordplay is everywhere. 21CB: The incredibly strong (EJN, the title track, Before the Lobotomy, etc.) is interspersed among the mixed (RHS, Murder City) and the downright bad (KYE). Billie's usual sense of humor is notably absent. Vocals Nimrod.: They're not as polished as they'd grow to be, but already are losing their snotty nasal tone and becoming stronger. What's more, they work perfectly for the album's content. 21CB: Technically the best Billie's ever done, but occasional obvious pitch-shifting and frequent too-high vocal filters dampen my enthusiasm. Overall, they're both fantastic records, and both in my top five Green Day albums. But I think Nimrod. is the single strongest thing they've put out in terms of knocking each category out of the park. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike Posted June 21, 2014 Author Share Posted June 21, 2014 I'm pretty much in agreement with the vast majority of that. On a technical level Nimrod is undoubtedly a fantastic album. Generally speaking the production is razor sharp, but I find Nice Guys Finish Last and Hitchin' A Ride really let it down in that respect. Personally I rate Breakdown higher in those terms because of how much bigger the arrangements are; I'm a sucker for massive guitar and string arrangements, and I've only listened to the remastered version for the last year or so. The compression on the original release is indeed a massive mark against it. I think both albums have their weak points across the board, but overall I think they're two different beasts. I can't listen to Nimrod in full because I find the wide variety of styles too meandering, and I'm never in the mood to listen to such different songs in one sitting. In contrast, 90% of the time I'll only listen to Breakdown in full because when it's taken as a whole every song seems to step up. Obviously I dislike KYE and Christian's Inferno, but I find them a lot more tolerable in the context of the album. The only thing I can really 100% agree with are that Mike's basslines are sorely missed and have been since Warning. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Funky Kong Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Shenanigans is better than 21CB and the Trilogy combined x99999999999999999999999 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anaïs. Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 I'm pretty much in agreement with the vast majority of that. On a technical level Nimrod is undoubtedly a fantastic album. Generally speaking the production is razor sharp, but I find Nice Guys Finish Last and Hitchin' A Ride really let it down in that respect. Why don't you like the production on Hitchin' a Ride? I think it's one of their best-produced songs. I recall you mentioning something about compression in the guitars, but I've never noticed it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteTim Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Shenanigans is better than 21CB and the Trilogy combined x99999999999999999999999 I can't figure out if you are really a troll or just acting like one 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Funky Kong Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 I can't figure out if you are really a troll or just acting like one None of the above. Try again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike Posted June 21, 2014 Author Share Posted June 21, 2014 Why don't you like the production on Hitchin' a Ride? I think it's one of their best-produced songs. I recall you mentioning something about compression in the guitars, but I've never noticed it. Well, here's the waveform with the clipping highlighted in red: It's not as badly over-compressed as some stuff, but I just really don't think it does the song any favours. It's a fantastic song, but given that it leans so heavily on dynamic contrast they've done a great job of stripping any actual dynamic range out of the performance and in the end it just sounds artificial. As an audiophile I like to listen to my music through high quality headphones, but this song actually sounds worse through them because the guitars are so compressed that everything's just drowning in distortion caused by compression. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DookieLukie Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 I feel like an outcast for not being an audiophile and paying attention to technical details when I enjoy music. I will say that although I have come to love the epicness of 21CB (formerly 21CL), I think it could have used some trimming of songs, and the lyrics sometimes sound forced in terms of how serious and deep they are. I listened to Breakdown in my car for the past two days, and about 3/4 through I start thinking, "Ok this seems a bit long." A few songs should have been cut. That plus the lyrics is while AI will always trump 21CB IMO. AI has complex lyrics but also feels very personal and relatable. Sometimes I feel like I'm being lectured to during 21CB. Also, it's incredible how good the lyrics to Nimrod. are ESPECIALLY since they were written kind of last minute in the studio. Really cool. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike Posted June 21, 2014 Author Share Posted June 21, 2014 I feel like an outcast for not being an audiophile and paying attention to technical details when I enjoy music. That's no bad thing. If my degree has done anything it's successfully destroyed my ability to just sit back and enjoy music without analysing every tiny detail for no good reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bastard of 1969 Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Shenanigans is better than 21CB and the Trilogy combined x99999999999999999999999 No way. "Rotting" is just so damn boring. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat1308 Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Nimrod is probably objectively their best album besides maybe AI. I actually kind of agree with you here. I think Green Day was stylistically at the top of their form when they were experimenting with different musical genres back in the Nimrod and the Warning era. I don't know - I just feel that there's something lacking a bit when they basically try to stick to one form of music. They're way better when they go beyond their limits. As much as I like Insomniac and 21CB, I think that in those eras they were trying to more or less stick to the pattern they had established in the preceding albums (Dookie and AI respectively), which kinda limited and restrained them. I feel like an outcast for not being an audiophile and paying attention to technical details when I enjoy music. I will say that although I have come to love the epicness of 21CB (formerly 21CL), I think it could have used some trimming of songs, and the lyrics sometimes sound forced in terms of how serious and deep they are. I listened to Breakdown in my car for the past two days, and about 3/4 through I start thinking, "Ok this seems a bit long." A few songs should have been cut. That plus the lyrics is while AI will always trump 21CB IMO. AI has complex lyrics but also feels very personal and relatable. Sometimes I feel like I'm being lectured to during 21CB. Also, it's incredible how good the lyrics to Nimrod. are ESPECIALLY since they were written kind of last minute in the studio. Really cool. The funny thing is, it's kinda proof that there are times when stuff made up on-the-spot can be better than those which were fully thought out. Overpreparation and overthinking can spoil. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JOE THE X-KID Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 No way. "Rotting" is just so damn boring. whaaaat? Rottings fucking beautiful, being a slow song doesn't make it boring. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bastard of 1969 Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 whaaaat? Rottings fucking beautiful, being a slow song doesn't make it boring. Vocals do. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akshat Jain Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Vocals do. Vocals seems like they're out of energy, and then regains that in the end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermione Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Vocals seems like they're out of energy, and then regains that in the end. He does feel like he's "rotting" after all. The vocals fit the lyrics and mood of the song I'd say. Interesting dark little number, I really like how different it is. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akshat Jain Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 He does feel like he's "rotting" after all. The vocals fit the lyrics and mood of the song I'd say. Interesting dark little number, I really like how different it is. That claps in the end of the song. do they sound good? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ifmemoryserves Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 No way. "Rotting" is just so damn boring.ok so one "boring" song makes the entire album terrible? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermione Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 I dunno why anyone would judge Shenanigans against their proper albums anyway, it's a random collection of b sides that were recorded years apart slapped together rather than an "album" as such. That claps in the end of the song. do they sound good? I haven't noticed them! Is it part of the music or is it the band clapping after the song? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akshat Jain Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 I dunno why anyone would judge Shenanigans against their proper albums anyway, it's a random collection of b sides that were recorded years apart slapped together rather than an "album" as such. I haven't noticed them! Is it part of the music or is it the band clapping after the song? umm.. i don't know... maybe the producer clapping in the end, or tre, cause there's a little voice that can be heard, like someone is praising them, and it sounds of mike or tre Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermione Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 umm.. i don't know... maybe the producer clapping in the end, or tre, cause there's a little voice that can be heard, like someone is praising them, and it sounds of mike or tre Ahh, I like it when there's little noises like that at the end of Green Day songs! I can't hear it though, your ears must be better than mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akshat Jain Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Ahh, I like it when there's little noises like that at the end of Green Day songs! I can't hear it though, your ears must be better than mine. oh wait.... after reading this you'll laugh to your greatest extent. i was talking about "On The Wagon", not ROTTING!! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Disappearing Boy Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 I love how dark the vocals at lyrics are in Rotting, yet the guitar riff and general sound of the guitar in the beginning is so cheerful. A really interesting contrast. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bastard of 1969 Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 ok so one "boring" song makes the entire album terrible? Well, I just said about "Rotting". And majority of the songs are just boring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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