Random Green Day Thoughts

[solongfromthestars]

55 minutes ago, LaughingClock said:

Really?!

Its out of control.

What about this song by the Beatles?

Now here is a song on one of the most highly acclaimed albums of all time in the late 60s, that sounds whimsical and happy but what it’s really about is a serial killer who goes and kills everyone he meets.

Keep in mind that this was written by Sir Paul who is the less edgy one. He usually writes love songs and slow songs and this one sounds like “When I’m 64” so it escaped a lot of people but if you listen to each line, you will see that this song is about a serial killer named Maxwell who liked to kill his victims with his silver hammer.

Have we regressed to pre 60s censorship. Paul McCartney could hardly be pegged as anything but a lover and a gentleman but here he is writing a song about a guy who goes out on excursions with people to kill them dead, and that’s fine.

What about Brain Stew? That song is about doing amphetamines (crosstops). It’s called art and is not supposed to be censored or taken at its face value, just like if you see a film or play a video game. It’s entertainment when we are talking about song lyrics. 

It's hardly out of control or pre-60s censorship to think a song is a bit immature. Thinking a song is immature doesn't mean it's wrong or that they shouldn't have written it either. It's just an opinion I was curious to know if anyone shared.

I don't think Brain Stew is really comparable. The subject matter is different and he's singing about harming himself with drugs, not someone else, so the issue I have with I Want Revenge isn't there anyway. As for Maxwell's Silver Hammer, there has been a lot of controversy over it and it's on most lists of problematic songs. I wouldn't say it escaped peoples' notice.

I have an arts degree so there's no need to talk down to me about what art is. I don't think art should be censored or always taken at face value at all, but people are also entitled to disagree with the sentiment behind art (as I'm sure some people do with the art I make!) and that doesn't equal expecting censorship. Questioning that song is actually not taking it at the face value of some throwaway Christmas fun but as something with actual meaning that's open to discussion.

[Hermione]

11 minutes ago, solongfromthestars said:

It's hardly out of control or pre-60s censorship to think a song is a bit immature. Thinking a song is immature doesn't mean it's wrong or that they shouldn't have written it either. It's just an opinion I was curious to know if anyone shared.

I don't think Brain Stew is really comparable. The subject matter is different and he's singing about harming himself with drugs, not someone else, so the issue I have with I Want Revenge isn't there anyway. As for Maxwell's Silver Hammer, there has been a lot of controversy over it and it's on most lists of problematic songs. I wouldn't say it escaped peoples' notice.

I have an arts degree so there's no need to talk down to me about what art is. I don't think art should be censored or always taken at face value at all, but people are also entitled to disagree with the sentiment behind art (as I'm sure some people do with the art I make!) and that doesn't equal expecting censorship. Questioning that song is actually not taking it at the face value of some throwaway Christmas fun but as something with actual meaning that's open to discussion.

I think it's kind of supposed to be immature though, it's a fun song with a bit of a dark tongue in cheek twist. It isn't meant seriously

[Rumpelstiltskin2000]

1 hour ago, LaughingClock said:

What about this song by the Beatles?

With all due respect whilst that album is one of the most highly acclaimed albums of all time "Maxwell's Silver Hammer" is considered one of the worst Beatles' songs and one of their most controversial/wouldn't be allowed these days.

As for "Brain Stew" I thought it was accepted that Billie was singing about himself?

24 minutes ago, pacejunkie punk said:

putting warning stickers on everything to protect impressionable young minds

But don't virtually all GD CDs have a parental advisory sticker? Walmart won't even sell 21st Century Breakdown!

[solongfromthestars]

47 minutes ago, Hermione said:

I think it's kind of supposed to be immature though, it's a fun song with a bit of a dark tongue in cheek twist. It isn't meant seriously

I think because we don't know the story behind it that comes down to personal interpretation. I'm interpreting it as actually being about someone (though even then I'm not saying it's at all as extreme as a song like Maxwell's Silver Hammer), but I can understand why other people don't see anything wrong with it if they interpret it as being about nothing. Regardless, it's still silly to think one person disagreeing with the sentiment of a song is "out of control" or "censorship"  

[Rumpelstiltskin2000]

I suppose it depends on whether the song is really targeting someone but we'll probably never know. It should be possible to discuss it without people jumping to the conclusion that political correctness has gone too far! And obviously it's completely ridiculous to send someone a death threat over their dislike of a record. That seems far more out of control.

[LaughingClock]

On censorship, a group of comedians created something called the “Aristocrats” which is a disgusting, don’t listen if anything already discussed here even slightly offends you as those are considered rated G by comparison.

In the states, Silver Hammer never got that much attention and most people here that I discuss it with, never even much realized what the song was about.

As I sat here laughing at the songs we are talking about and how tame they all are compared to some songs I could post, I decided to post a version of a song type “The Aristocrat ‘joke’” which is either a song or comedic bit about a family waiting to pitch something to a manager or an agent of some sort with the most disturbing situational stuff you could imagine involving rape, incest and other things, always told in the same way. Go to Apple Music or Spotify or however you ingest music and see for yourself.

Google “Aristocrat Joke” to see what it is and it’s an answer to people that want to censor comedy/music/whatever.

Censorship in all its forms is bad IMHO. We should have the right to decide what it okay for us or not to decide on. Besides, the more you censor something, the more it wants to be said or heard.

I bet the amount of people that smoke weed in America, as it is slowly state by state being legalized will lead to less weed smokers. I cuss around my daughter so it’s not hysterical to her to hear the word and say it and it works. I make it a point to say excuse me and that other people can be offended by it and you should be considerate of that but desensitizing people to “bad” words is a way of making it not something they want to tell their little friends about and say and giggle. It takes the power from the idea or word. Words only have the power we give them.

Here is the HIGHLY OFFENSIVE one version of The Aristocrats (Google the Aristocrat jokes).

Now as for words and their power, Carlin once again to explain things:

Warning this can also be offensive but it doesn’t have to be. You can make the decision yourself. For example, my in laws are Southern Babtist bible thumpers. I am very aware of this when I am around them and because I respect them, I never cuss around them and I don’t disregard their feelings abount words even though I disagree. It’s a matter of knowing where and who you’re with. 

Finally @Rumpelstiltskin2000, not that it matters, how is Silver Hammer considered one of their worst? I looked randomly at a couple of Beatles songs list (they have 297 songs) and the worst I could find was 138 on a couple ganders. Means nothing to the conversation but just wondering.

[Rumpelstiltskin2000]

31 minutes ago, LaughingClock said:

Finally @Rumpelstiltskin2000, not that it matters, how is Silver Hammer considered one of their worst? I looked randomly at a couple of Beatles songs list (they have 297 songs) and the worst I could find was 138 on a couple ganders. Means nothing to the conversation but just wondering.

I can't find any of them now but I read some articles in the last few months that listed it as one of the most controversial songs of all time. They were articles talking about songs that were recorded years ago and wouldn't be acceptable present day. Only one I could find was this from Ultimate Classic Rock:

http://ultimateclassicrock.com/beatles-maxwells-silver-hammer/

I've seen something about the other three Beatles not wanting to record it as well but typically I can't find it again now!

Being my age I've heard a lot of people criticising it too

[solongfromthestars]

@LaughingClock I don't actually disagree with you about censorship. I agree that everything being discussed here is tame in comparison to what else is out there, too. I wouldn't say that in context, Billie has ever written anything truly "offensive." Some people would argue that Platypus is, but knowing how badly Tim Yohannon treated Green Day evens that out for me. Am I uncomfortable with the sentiment behind I Want Revenge without knowing it doesn't concern a real person? Yeah, which is why I brought it up to see what others thought, but I don't think that means it should be censored or even that it's seriously offensive. I just don't personally agree with it. Art shouldn't be censored because it makes people uncomfortable. Just as people questioning art shouldn't be censored because others don't want to hear it, either.

Anyway...

On 1/2/2019 at 1:00 AM, Rumpelstiltskin2000 said:

I didn't know "Know Your Enemy" was used in the movie "The Spy Next Door"! It was on a commerical before a movie we watched over the holidays

This is the trailer: 

KYE is towards the end

I love stuff like this because it makes me feel like a proud parent Like when we watched Varsity Blues and I had to take a photo of this, even though Nice Guys Finish Last was the only reason we watched it

[The Bellie]

12 hours ago, solongfromthestars said:

singing "I'm gonna make you crash and burn" as a metaphor for breaking someone's heart

(shifting into a quick analysis of TML here) I never really thought that line meant that , to me the whole song Turn Me Loose is more about praising to be an outcast, unruly in society (don't let your ponytail get out of line, ironically because he is in fact out of line and wants to stays so), the insecure feeling of it (I'm on the spectrum and the borderline, I got the shakes but I'm alive - my fave line, very RevRad-esque) and about the "loser" but accepted side of being a rebel (I'm gonna swinging for the foul line, I'm not a rebel for my pride).

The line "I'll take a beating not a dive" is funny because it's during that precise song that Billie used to dive in the crowd during the Longshot gigs . So the whole song is kinda sarcastic - the whole album is, I remember when thy did The last Time, Billie said "there is no fucking last time, this song is called The Last Time", and right before they played Happiness, Billie called us miserable bastards, denying that we could really be happy, tripping on ourselves as we were in the pit. 

So I feel that they are many lines including the last ones in Turn me Loose that I'd mentioned in the first post, where he's not actually thinking of making a racket, starting a riot and making someone cash and burn, to me it's a metaphoric way to say something like "I'm gonna do everything that's considered bad, and fuck you, deal with it". From the first time I heard it felt to me like an echo to Reject in Nimrod, "sucking up your social sect, making you a nervous wreck", even though the two songs are very different, I felt like there was a common thread in both, the first time he's singing about it angrily as a young adult, and the second time he's just making fun of it (I could be totally wrong in this). Even though some terms are in themselves less "mature" in Turn Me Loose, the use he makes of them can precisely be mature, if that makes sense (I think that's where we both differ, when taking about a song that's seemingly, literally immature. I believe it's most of time purely sarcastic. Just in passing for me TML is a much greater piece of art than I want revenge ). 

The song is like a happy conclusion to the album, like finding some happiness in feeling like a loser, and it's the most joyful-sounding, and even the most joyful lyrically to me. I could be wrong, but I admit I never had the feeling he spoke about love specifically in that song (on the contrary to other songs on LIFL). Although, thinking about it, these three last lines of the song could be a metaphor for stealing someone's heart (racket) and breaking it, but I don't relate it much to the rest of the song; apart from that April Fools reference, only because in Loss of control he speaks explicitly about a loser falling in love "April Fools, thought you fall in love". In Turn Me Loose the context is "I'm only gonna stagger (which he tended to replace by swagger live, which has kind of an opposite meaning, but one doesn't prevent the other when you think of it), and April Fools but I'm not a runner". I'm not sure what it means, but I have the feeling that 'I'm not a runner" is a kind of way to say "I won't even try, because I'm a loser" (and he's fine with it). It could be "I'm not a runner to be another April Fools" like he sang in Loss of control, like a way of saying "I won't try and fall in love again, it's useless" . Funny how we can make endless connections between the songs.

8 hours ago, Rumpelstiltskin2000 said:

But don't virtually all GD CDs have a parental advisory sticker? Walmart won't even sell 21st Century Breakdown!

That's true, and a real shame!

[Hermione]

8 hours ago, solongfromthestars said:

Regardless, it's still silly to think one person disagreeing with the sentiment of a song is "out of control" or "censorship"  

That I certainly agree with, doesn't have anything to do with censorship

[solongfromthestars]

6 hours ago, The Bellie said:

(shifting into a quick analysis of TML here) I never really thought that line meant that , to me the whole song Turn Me Loose is more about praising to be an outcast, unruly in society (don't let your ponytail get out of line, ironically because he is in fact out of line and wants to stays so), the insecure feeling of it (I'm on the spectrum and the borderline, I got the shakes but I'm alive - my fave line, very RevRad-esque) and about the "loser" but accepted side of being a rebel (I'm gonna swinging for the foul line, I'm not a rebel for my pride).

The line "I'll take a beating not a dive" is funny because it's during that precise song that Billie used to dive in the crowd during the Longshot gigs . So the whole song is kinda sarcastic - the whole album is, I remember when thy did The last Time, Billie said "there is no fucking last time, this song is called The Last Time", and right before they played Happiness, Billie called us miserable bastards, denying that we could really be happy, tripping on ourselves as we were in the pit. 

So I feel that they are many lines including the last ones in Turn me Loose that I'd mentioned in the first post, where he's not actually thinking of making a racket, starting a riot and making someone cash and burn, to me it's a metaphoric way to say something like "I'm gonna do everything that's considered bad, and fuck you, deal with it". From the first time I heard it felt to me like an echo to Reject in Nimrod, "sucking up your social sect, making you a nervous wreck", even though the two songs are very different, I felt like there was a common thread in both, the first time he's singing about it angrily as a young adult, and the second time he's just making fun of it (I could be totally wrong in this). Even though some terms are in themselves less "mature" in Turn Me Loose, the use he makes of them can precisely be mature, if that makes sense (I think that's where we both differ, when taking about a song that's seemingly, literally immature. I believe it's most of time purely sarcastic. Just in passing for me TML is a much greater piece of art than I want revenge ). 

The song is like a happy conclusion to the album, like finding some happiness in feeling like a loser, and it's the most joyful-sounding, and even the most joyful lyrically to me. I could be wrong, but I admit I never had the feeling he spoke about love specifically in that song (on the contrary to other songs on LIFL). Although, thinking about it, these three last lines of the song could be a metaphor for stealing someone's heart (racket) and breaking it, but I don't relate it much to the rest of the song; apart from that April Fools reference, only because in Loss of control he speaks explicitly about a loser falling in love "April Fools, thought you fall in love". In Turn Me Loose the context is "I'm only gonna stagger (which he tended to replace by swagger live, which has kind of an opposite meaning, but one doesn't prevent the other when you think of it), and April Fools but I'm not a runner". I'm not sure what it means, but I have the feeling that 'I'm not a runner" is a kind of way to say "I won't even try, because I'm a loser" (and he's fine with it). It could be "I'm not a runner to be another April Fools" like he sang in Loss of control, like a way of saying "I won't try and fall in love again, it's useless" . Funny how we can make endless connections between the songs.

That's interesting! It could be about being the "minority" so to speak. I've said this many times but that's one of the things I love about Billie's lyrics - how different people can find completely different things in them. I've always interpreted Turn Me Loose as a song about trying to be triumphant in the face of a relationship ending, but then I also hear a few of the lyrics differently like "pride" being "bride":

"Don't let your ponytail get out of line, I got a feeling on my mind," stop and pay attention to me, because I have something to say; "I'm on the spectrum and the borderline, I got the shakes but I'm alright," I'm dealing with my own issues but I'm alright, already trying to insist he's fine despite how the person has made him feel, when in reality he isn't.

"Turn me loose, I'm only gonna stagger," meaning you can leave me, I'll only "stagger," it won't hurt too much; "April fool's and I'm not a runner," I'm already a fool anyway, so whatever; just "don't call me a loser with dumb tattoos" and hurt me, but "it doesn't matter," pretending he doesn't care, which is kind of sarcastic because he's just admitted he does.

"I'll go down swinging for the final line," I'll fight for myself until the end; "I'm not the rebel for my bride," I'm a rebel for myself and not for you; "just for the record and the afterlife, I'll take a beating not a dive," I'll take a beating but I won't be knocked down. That could also link back to Fell For You - "steal a kiss and I took a dive" - saying that this time I won't take a dive for you.

Finally, because it's kind of bluster and he is hurting really, he sings "I'm gonna make a racket, I'm gonna start a riot, I'm gonna make you crash and burn," saying he's going to break the person's heart in return. That one isn't so different to your interpretation of "fuck you, I'm going to do whatever I want that's considered bad anyway," just a different subject.

I don't actually think it's an immature song. He's playing with the concept of immaturity in the "crash and burn" line but mocking and embracing it. I guess you could say the exact same thing about I Want Revenge, but tbh I don't think it's even serious enough for any kind of concept like mocking immaturity.

And Turn Me Loose is absolutely a greater piece of art than I Want Revenge My favourite Longshot song. I don't think they can even be compared.

[Guest]

Currently listening to KFAD and god damn it's such a JAM

[Guest]

I wish they would keep playing WICA like this, with just Billo and his guitar in the beginning. 
 

 
 

[Chin for a Day]

1 hour ago, Nightlife said:

I wish they would keep playing WICA like this, with just Billo and his guitar in the beginning. 
 

 
 

I have oftened listened to the intro to WICA on repeat.

[UNICORN VOMIT]

4 hours ago, Nightlife said:

Currently listening to KFAD and god damn it's such a JAM

I call BS

15 minutes ago, Adorkable said:

I have oftened listened to the intro to WICA on repeat.

All time fav song

 

Anyways Devil's Kind came on my spotify playlist & brought me back to when BJ randomly released the songs on spotify #warmfuzzyfeelings😀

[MillenniumFan]

@Nightlife

Certainly an interesting variation, although I also like the studio version a lot (and the way it's replicated live since around mid/late 2000s).

I think it was best executed here at the BBC Sessions (although there is a slight lack of base in the mix). The best of both worlds, almost. It's just breathtaking though how good they sound in those sessions, but it does also demonstrate that "When I Come Around" kinda needs two guitars to give it enough "oomph".

That's the one thing I didn't like about some of 90s and early 2000s live Green Day: They had a lot of energy, yes, but there were some songs that just screamed for a second guitar ("Basket Case" and "When I Come Around" being two examples).

Although that being said, when the Plexis were adjusted correctly on stage, the songs sounded very awesome even with just one guitar.

 

 

 

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, MillenniumFan said:

@Nightlife

Certainly an interesting variation. 

I think it was best executed here at the BBC Sessions (although there is a slight lack of base in the mix). It's just breathtaking though how good they sound in those sessions, but it does demonstrate that "When I Come Around" kinda needs to guitars to give it enough "oomph". That's the one thing I didn't like about most of 90s live Green Day: They had a lot of energy yes, but there were some songs that screamed for a second guitar. 

 

Oh I love the BBC sessions. Only version of Basket Case I listen to is from this! Really highlights how great Mike and Billie are together. 

Edited January 4, 2019 by Guest
Please remove videos when quoting. Thanks.

[UNICORN VOMIT]

4 minutes ago, MillenniumFan said:

@Nightlife

Certainly an interesting variation. 

I think it was best executed here at the BBC Sessions (although there is a slight lack of base in the mix). It's just breathtaking though how good they sound in those sessions, but it does demonstrate that "When I Come Around" kinda needs to guitars to give it enough "oomph". That's the one thing I didn't like about most of 90s live Green Day: They had a lot of energy yes, but there were some songs that screamed for a second guitar. 

 

 

 

WICA used to be played slower - idk if I correct or not - but I've said it before during the RevRad tour it seemed too fast.

[MillenniumFan]

Really? I actually think they slowed it down for the RevRad tour, roughly to what it is on the album, maybe even slightly slower.

It certainly seemed a lot quicker on previous tours (such as on the 99 Revolutions and 21CB tour), although they might just have been less consistent with their tempo. There are certainly some songs that they have slowed down since the 21CB tour, such as "Know Your Enemy", although most have stayed the same.

In any case, I think WICA has always been played relatively close to the original speed live, at least in the 2000s.

 

[amberwhite]

4 hours ago, Adorkable said:

I have oftened listened to the intro to WICA on repeat.

Same.

[Biddymc]

Could the lyrics to I want Revenge been written by one of the boys (Joey or Jakob)?  Just an odd thought.

[Goofygoldfish]

5 hours ago, Biddymc said:

Could the lyrics to I want Revenge been written by one of the boys (Joey or Jakob)?  Just an odd thought.

Good call, that they have at least some input and Billie helped them to shape them into the record. I like this idea, it would be a good interview question for Billie or one of the boys. 

If true, it would also makes sense of something I had thought, which is that there feels like a mismatch between some lines. I couldn't explain this well so hadn't commented previously, and still can't, it's just a feeling! 

[Rumpelstiltskin2000]

10 hours ago, Goofygoldfish said:

Good call, that they have at least some input and Billie helped them to shape them into the record. I like this idea, it would be a good interview question for Billie or one of the boys. 

If true, it would also makes sense of something I had thought, which is that there feels like a mismatch between some lines. I couldn't explain this well so hadn't commented previously, and still can't, it's just a feeling! 

Yeah that's possible that all of them had some input.

On another note I'm still getting emails from the Black Cat in Washington where The Longshot played and every time it makes me happy thinking about the show

[maryjanewhatsername]

I was listening to Nimrod today, and came across "Haushinka". I've always really loved that song, it's pretty and has wonderful harmonies. But I couldn't help what wonder what the flying fuck in space 'haushinka' meant, so I took to the internet. 

According to geekstinkbreath.net (apparently it still exists!) "Haushinka" refers to regretting not saying one's feelings to a person before they leave. Also read that an unconfirmed rumor for it was when Billie met a girl in Japan during the time him and Adrienne were separated. 

Can anyone here confirm or deny that? Thoughts? Also, is Haushinka a real word??? 

[The Bellie]

Replying to you in green in the quote:

On 1/4/2019 at 4:11 PM, solongfromthestars said:

That's interesting! It could be about being the "minority" so to speak. I've said this many times but that's one of the things I love about Billie's lyrics - how different people can find completely different things in them. I've always interpreted Turn Me Loose as a song about trying to be triumphant in the face of a relationship ending it's true that the title can lead that way, I'm just thinking of it; I looked up what "turn someone loose" means in general, there can be a positive connotation to it, like giving freedom back to this person, it's interesting; anyways I can see better the ending of a relationship that may be involved here, but then I also hear a few of the lyrics differently like "pride" being "bride":

"Don't let your ponytail get out of line, I got a feeling on my mind," stop and pay attention to me, because I have something to say; I admit I don't see the link you make from "Don't let your ponytail get out of line" to "stop and pay attention to me" (to me it's more: you can stay in line if you want, not let anything get out of it, but I won't do that), but I do for the second part of the phrase "I'm on the spectrum and the borderline, I got the shakes but I'm alright," I think he sings "alive" in the album version (which is another degree of concession, supposing he's fine only because he's alive, that being alive is enough) but I just heard a live version where he says "alright"... but it's just a small detail ^^ but I'm dealing with my own issues but I'm alright, already trying to insist he's fine despite how the person has made him feel, when in reality he isn't.

"Turn me loose, I'm only gonna stagger," meaning you can leave me, I'll only "stagger," it won't hurt too much I agree; do you hear "swagger" sometimes when he sings it live? supposing not only it won't hurt too much, but even more, he'll even feel even more assured if he's left. Now I'm thinking the whole song could be about being left alone while he thinks he's an edgy guy from the start but finally okay with that, and that being left alone won't make him get back in line / be normal "April fool's and I'm not a runner," I'm already a fool anyway, so whatever; just "don't call me a loser with dumb tattoos" and hurt me agree, but "it doesn't matter," pretending he doesn't care, which is kind of sarcastic because he's just admitted he does I hear "but it doesn't matter" being related to "with dumb tattoos" because he sings both lines so closely; so it would be a way to say "the dumb tattoos don't matter, the fact I have them and am a weirdo doesn't matter".

"I'll go down swinging for the final line," I really hear foul line, like in bowling the line where you don't hit any skittle, which makes sense with the "I'm not a rebel for my pride" as I hear it I'll fight for myself until the end; "I'm not the rebel for my bride," I'm a rebel for myself and not for you I still agree with that ^^; "just for the record and the afterlife, I'll take a beating not a dive," I'll take a beating but I won't be knocked down yes. That could also link back to Fell For You - "steal a kiss and I took a dive" - saying that this time I won't take a dive for you. Very interesting! I still wonder whom Fell For You is meant for by the way. Funny because you made to link from TML to it and I made one to Loss of Control, which follows FFY in Uno. Is is the same person he fells for, and then sings about that he's the "April Fools who thought he fell in love with" in LOC? and now the same he speaks about in TML, finally marking a conclusion to it?

Finally, because it's kind of bluster and he is hurting really, he sings "I'm gonna make a racket, I'm gonna start a riot, I'm gonna make you crash and burn," saying he's going to break the person's heart in return. That one isn't so different to your interpretation of "fuck you, I'm going to do whatever I want that's considered bad anyway," just a different subject agree.

I don't actually think it's an immature song. He's playing with the concept of immaturity in the "crash and burn" line but mocking and embracing it. I guess you could say the exact same thing about I Want Revenge, but tbh I don't think it's even serious enough for any kind of concept like mocking immaturity.

And Turn Me Loose is absolutely a greater piece of art than I Want Revenge My favourite Longshot song. I don't think they can even be compared agree.