Cob Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 If I recall correctly the issue wan't violent lyricism it was violent lyricism that was misogynistic and seemingly promoted domestic violence. If my memory is intact, I'm pretty sure Billie Joe has never done so. In fact, the dude has always seemed pretty scared of women And he also didn't recreate such hypothetical abuse on stage in front of thousands of people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteTim Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 If Em was really this sexist evil person how is it the courts gave him full custody to not only their daughter BUT also full custody of Kim's 2 other children who aint even his? Oh yeah because music persona doesn't equal to real life DUH And Em has since apologized for the song and also for Just The Two Of Us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cob Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 It's like… I can't get why Eminem (renowned for his lyrics and songwriting) is being put into this box of being untalented because he's written a song about violence against women. BJA has written songs about violence against men and we all love singing his praises. Both artists have claimed that their songs were not meant to be taken literally, too. No one said anything about him being untalented, someone just pointed out that they thought he was being misogynistic. And this is a GREEN DAY FANSITE. Objectivity isn't exactly going to be a prevalent feature on this site (though it is definitely still possible). Honestly what was expected from a comment saying that Eminem was a better lyricist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petros Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 The last thing I have to say is that I hope someday some wildly popular and well-known female artist releases a song about slitting the throat of her baby daddy complete with blood gurgling noises at the end and we'll see how you guys like that type of stuff then also, I'm not saying Eminem isn't good at what he does, I'm just saying he's mysogynistic and therefore not worth spending my money on. Who is being sexist now? Like the reason you mind is because he is "murdering" a woman and not a man?A woman's life is more important?I don't mind what he's saying cause I don't confuse music to reality not because he's talking about a woman. Ok this is going somewhere else...Quickly another unpopular opinion...Dookie sucks compared to Insomniac.And all the songs on Dookie that aren't singles are boring as hell.Except from FOD and Burnout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mar Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 I get the feeling even if Billie Joe hadn't gone to rehab, we wouldn't have had very full US and European tours. Compare the American Idiot Tour to the 21 Century Breakdown tour. They really didn't play a great variety of dates during the latter, and it's hugely disappointing considering that they are sensational live. I know they've done a lot of secret shows in between, but those are hardly practical for people with busy lives, and hardly accessible with a limited number of tickets. I don't what has caused this decline in touring, but I had brief conversation about it earlier today, and it was suggested that the band is getting a little... lazy. I don't know. But it's frustrating how little they're touring. I know he's not well, but...I can't shake off the feeling it would have made any difference if Billie Joe was totally healthy the whole time. idk if I agree with the lazy reasoning, but I certainly agree with the feeling that the touring has decreased. I mean, I know the band isn't as popular as they used to be in the AI days, but maybe playing smaller venues in more markets would be more feasible, profitability-wise, than only doing a few dates at big venues in a fairly limited part of the country? And like you said, I feel that way even before most of the 99 Revolutions Tour was axed. Baby Eyes is my favorite song off the trilogy among Stray Heart, X-Kid, Brutal Love and DRB. Baby Eyes is so good. I just love the GO GO GO at the beginning and the ending. I've always taken it to be a tongue in cheek reference to his bisexuality and drug/alcohol use. Same. I think "straight" has a double meaning for straight edge and straight sexually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteTim Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 No one said anything about him being untalented, someone just pointed out that they thought he was being misogynistic. And this is a GREEN DAY FANSITE. Objectivity isn't exactly going to be a prevalent feature on this site (though it is definitely still possible). Honestly what was expected from a comment saying that Eminem was a better lyricist? Wait eho said he's a better lyricist than Billie? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blitzkriegdeb Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 I'm only talking about the song "Kim", not about whether or not Eminem's apologized, is a better lyricist, is a good person, was joking, actually owns a big farm of kittens or whatever. That's for another discussion. Billie has never written anything near as brutal as Kim. It's one thing to make an offhanded comment or write a song telling someone to fuck off but its another thing to make a song on the level that Kim is. But, alas, these are my opinions, take them for what you will and I'll do the same with yours Opinion Time: I think X-Kid is the one of the best songs they've written and recorded of all time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petros Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 I'm not being sexist, I'm just saying that I hope you guys would support that sort of song against a man just as vehemently as you support a song like that against a woman. Who is being sexist now? Like the reason you mind is because he is "murdering" a woman and not a man?A woman's life is more important?I don't mind what he's saying cause I don't confuse music to reality not because he's talking about a woman. Ok this is going somewhere else...Quickly another unpopular opinion...Dookie sucks compared to Insomniac.And all the songs on Dookie that aren't singles are boring as hell.Except from FOD and Burnout. I edited that before you replied.read it.try to understand that music is just music and that's it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteTim Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 I'm not being sexist, I'm just saying that I hope you guys would support that sort of song against a man just as vehemently as you support a song like that against a woman. Next time your kid dad pisses u off take the lyrics of Kim and replace them with the name of your kid dad Im willing to bet that in your time of anger you'd be thinking the same way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarcasm Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 Wait eho said he's a better lyricist than Billie?In some cases Eminem is a lyrical genius, and it's a different style of music AND it is rap, so the way the lyrics are presented and written are so different, it's hard to compare. Most of his songs has so much more content than any GD song simply because the verses are a clusterfuck of words.That being said, it's different, kind of strange to compare, but I'll just leave this bizarre piece of music here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eva Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 Um how about no, a person with as much influence as Eminem should not be writing lyrics that contribute to our culture of violence against women. Say what you want about Billie's lyrics, at least he has never written about brutally murdering a woman he doesn't like. Anything that supports the oppression of a group of people is not okay, even if it is done jokingly. Seeing as Eminem mock-abused something that represented his wife on stage, I would say this is serious and not to be taken lightly. Abuse is not funny. Homicide is not funny. Oppression of any group of people is not funny. Abuse, murder, and oppression are not topics to discuss lightly. I would be just as offended by Eminem's song if it were about a man, a homosexual, white people, trans* people, etc., as I am now. Oppression, murder, and abuse are not okay to talk about in that way. Yeah he writes what he wants what's bad with that? You all lick green day's ass for being so "punx" and never care what people think of what they are doing but when it's Eminem doing it you think the influence he has? Like if someone's so stupid to take things eminem write literally it's eminem's fault. Also this. green day's not punk Who is being sexist now? Like the reason you mind is because he is "murdering" a woman and not a man?A woman's life is more important?I don't mind what he's saying cause I don't confuse music to reality not because he's talking about a woman. Ok this is going somewhere else...Quickly another unpopular opinion...Dookie sucks compared to Insomniac.And all the songs on Dookie that aren't singles are boring as hell.Except from FOD and Burnout. That was her point. How would y'all (as in men, in general. Not you personally) feel if there was a song released about murdering a man, a man was mock-abused on stage, and the song itself included graphic noises? It would be fucking terrifying, that's what it would be. It was a hypothetical situation. She was not being "misandrist" (because that does not exist). She was just asking how you (men, in general) would feel if y'all were put in this sort of situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteTim Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 Actually no, I'm not immature enough to do something like that. Like it or not, he's my kid's father and doesn't deserve that sort of disrespect. Huh uh .. ok... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eva Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 Wait eho said he's a better lyricist than Billie? Um, the first post made about this topic and the one that spurred on this discussion. Next time your kid dad pisses u off take the lyrics of Kim and replace them with the name of your kid dad Im willing to bet that in your time of anger you'd be thinking the same way I highly doubt she would do such a thing because she doesn't seem like the type who would want to violently murder someone, write a song about it, release it to the masses, and brainwash children into thinking these things are okay to take lightly and joke about. Trust me, I've had a fuckin' shitty childhood, and not once have I ever seriously thought about what it would be like to murder my step-dad, who's the cause of most of the shit I've gone through. That's not healthy, and often that means there's something wrong with you. Murder, rape, abuse, and misogyny are not to be taken lightly. They're serious topics that can cause serious harm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petros Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 It was a hypothetical situation. She was not being "misandrist" (because that does not exist). She was just asking how you (men, in general) would feel if y'all were put in this sort of situation. I meant I don't confuse music with real life so I care if something like that existed.Sorry maybe it's because I just don't give a fuck(em reference right here ) about what other people say so I don't get my feelings hurt. Ok this is literally the last thing I say about this whole thing.I've been cheated by the only girl I ever loved so far in my life.When I started listening to eminem and his songs about Kim I was thinking of her.That song Kim was one of his first songs I got into.I really really understand him writing these stuff.He didn't mean it literal as you guys taking it.Do you think I'm a sick bastard too?Do you seriously think I'll go to her house now and murder her? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cob Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 Wait eho said he's a better lyricist than Billie? Petros. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteTim Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 That was her point. How would y'all (as in men, in general. Not you personally) feel if there was a song released about murdering a man, a man was mock-abused on stage, and the song itself included graphic noises? It would be fucking terrifying, that's what it would be. It was a hypothetical situation. She was not being "misandrist" (because that does not exist). She was just asking how you (men, in general) would feel if y'all were put in this sort of situation. I'd feel the same way as I do now it was written in a time of anger (something yall are being very fucking hypocritical of when Billie has done himself yeah yeah he didnt go into detail but the hate is still there...) Is Kim extreme yes I'd never deny that it is extreme BUT yall acting like Em did it in real life if he did no court would ever in life have gave him full custody of not only his daughter but his ex wife kids from other people... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eva Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 I meant I don't confuse music with real life so I care if something like that existed.Sorry maybe it's because I just don't give a fuck(em reference right here ) about what other people say so I don't get my feelings hurt. Ok this is literally the last thing I say about this whole thing.I've been cheated by the only girl I ever loved so far in my life.When I started listening to eminem and his songs about Kim I was thinking of her.That song Kim was one of his first songs I got into.I really really understand him writing these stuff.He didn't mean it literal as you guys taking it.Do you think I'm a sick bastard too?Do you seriously think I'll go to her house now and murder her? Music is a way to release emotions and express yourself, so I will never take a song such as Kim lightly because for all we know, Eminem might have been on his way to murder her when he wrote the song and then changed his mind. Music is about expression. When your music, a.k.a. form of expression, deals in murdering a person, I am not okay with that. Also, when you're a woman, who's been oppressed just because of they you were born, is constantly referred to as the cause of a male's mistakes in an abuse relationship, or has been raped, I will take you seriously when things like Eminem's song Kim "don't get your feelings hurt. I don't care if he meant the song literally or not, the way it came off was extremely serious, extremely offensive, extremely triggering, and extremely oppressive. It is not okay. It is not okay to write songs about those sort of topics and blow it off. Murder is not funny. Murder is not okay. Murder should not be written about in a positive light. If Billie Joe Armstrong wrote a song about seriously murdering someone with intense detail, I would stop listening to Green Day. I seriously would. Want to know why? Because it's not okay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petros Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 Petros. Yeah that's just my opinion I'm not trying to convince other people on it! I just can't stand people saying he is just a sick person that his lyrics are just misogynist anthems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eva Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 I'd feel the same way as I do now it was written in a time of anger (something yall are being very fucking hypocritical of when Billie has done himself yeah yeah he didnt go into detail but the hate is still there...) Is Kim extreme yes I'd never deny that it is extreme BUT yall acting like Em did it in real life if he did no court would ever in life have gave him full custody of not only his daughter but his ex wife kids from other people... The court system sucks. My sister is being neglected and is a victim of child abuse everyday when she's at her father's house, but the court still won't give full custody to my mother. Just because the court says it's okay, doesn't necessarily mean it's okay. None of Billie's songs have been about murdering someone though. While it's still wrong, there's a difference between "I wish he would die" and "I wish I could go over to his house with my axe, bust in the door, split his head open, stick his body in my car, and throw it into the Pacific Ocean." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blitzkriegdeb Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 Can I marry you and drumdreez or Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eva Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 Can I marry you and drumdeez or Seeing as I am underage and Tennessee hates the gays, sadly, it's a no. As soon as I get the hell out of here and turn 18, then I'm all for this idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteTim Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 None of Billie's songs have been about murdering someone though. While it's still wrong, there's a difference between "I wish he would die" and "I wish I could go over to his house with my axe, bust in the door, split his head open, stick his body in my car, and throw it into the Pacific Ocean." Billie hasn't been graphic but the HATE is there To me the hate he had for Tim in Platypus is stronger than the words in Kim Just cause Billie didnt go into detail the HATE is clearly apperent if you want to disagree then you are a idiot and I'll glady invest money for an education for you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cob Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 The issue being discussed isn't the hate though, it's how it's expressed. It's perfectly possible to describe your massive dislike for a person without getting into vulgar and offensive details. From my perspective, there's a pretty big difference in telling someone "I hope you die" and then describing how you want to take someone's life. Again, the feeling there is the same, but it's how it's expressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blitzkriegdeb Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 Billie hasn't been graphic but the HATE is there To me the hate he had for Tim in Platypus is stronger than the words in Kim Just cause Billie didnt go into detail the HATE is clearly apperent if you want to disagree then you are a idiot and I'll glady invest money for an education for you... The worst thing he did in Platypus was essentially tell Tim to go fuck himself, not that he was going to slit Tim's throat, stuff him in a truck and murder him in the woods. Whenever you wanna send me that money for my "education" feel free to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eva Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 Billie hasn't been graphic but the HATE is there To me the hate he had for Tim in Platypus is stronger than the words in Kim Just cause Billie didnt go into detail the HATE is clearly apperent if you want to disagree then you are a idiot and I'll glady invest money for an education for you... 1) There's a lot of hate in a lot of songs. Let's just destroy the music industry, shall we? 2) No, it's not, because Billie wasn't talking about murdering Tim. I don't like Platypus. In fact, it's my least favorite song because of how hateful it is and I don't agree with someone being happy because someone else is dying from cancer. But Billie is not talking about murdering Tim. Billie is not talking about oppressing Tim. Billie is not talking about oppressing women, who have been blamed as the cause of men's problems for centuries and who have often been the victims of domestic violence and abuse. 3) Thank you for getting personal and calling me an idiot. We can continue this debate when you grow up. Although, I would like to point out that you're already paying for my education because you, hopefully, pay your taxes. So thanks buddy, it means a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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