Unpopular Green Day Opinions

[Mar]

I don't like the My generation cover. I think it's awful.

I agree. Then again, I'm not a fan of the song to begin with (just far from my favorite Who song) and even for Kerplunk, it just sounds really messy, unpolished and unprofessional.

[WhiteTim]

I agree. Then again, I'm not a fan of the song to begin with (just far from my favorite Who song) and even for Kerplunk, it just sounds really messy, unpolished and unprofessional.

It wasn't for Kerplunk it was on the Sweet Children EP which was just them using free 2 hour studio time Lookout added it to Kerplunk on the cd as like bonus tracks

[Mar]

It wasn't for Kerplunk it was on the Sweet Children EP which was just them using free 2 hour studio time Lookout added it to Kerplunk on the cd as like bonus tracks

Right, but I guess I'm saying it doesn't fit with the rest of Kerplunk. It's the same reason I'm not a fan of DLS being on there.

[Clockwise]

Any good songwriter, and any good rock musician, sets limitations for themselves. When the focus of the music is on the song and the band and the sum of it's parts, technical abilities are worthless. When the goal is the song, then the goal is to make a connection with the listener.

Green Day is the best example of this. Not only are all three (four) immensely talented performers (which is the mark of any great musician), but they're also immensely talented songwriters. That's where they set themselves up as awesome musicians. So fucking what if all their songs are in 4/4? Basket Case wouldn't be Basket Case if it were in 7/4 or 12/8. It wouldn't mean the same thing if it were overtly complex. Green Day is all about serving the song so that it serves the listener. The drum fill that opens up the band in Basket Case, to continue using that example, had to be recorded many times because Tre felt he was being too grandiose about it and too crazy. The end result? One of the best drum intros in the history of music.

Billie Joe is a great guitar player because he has an amazing sense of melody. His melodies don't follow the guitar, the guitar follows his melody. He's precise in picking out a piece on an instrument and making it sound exactly the way he wants it to. The melody is at the forefront, it's what drives the song, and the guitar is what sustains that. Viva La Gloria and Letterbomb are terrific examples of this. The chord progressions are a little tricky at first because they follow such a flowing melody, and the end result is marvelous. And on top of that it means something. That to me is more powerful than a meaningless soup of "intricate" notes.

And then Mike Dirnt. Incredible bassist. On the old work, he was great at filling in the melody and driving it, not just sustaining it like the guitar, but driving it forward. Little notes here and there add color, change the rhythm, and rework the dynamics. And all in the name of serving the song. On the new albums hes an even better player. The mark of a good bassist is that they know their role. On American Idiot and 21st Century Breakdown, it was evident that the band was stepping into more experimental territory. Layered guitars, layered strings, pianos, percussion accompaniments, harmony arrangements (another thing Billie Joe is really good at, by the way). The melody no longer needed to be driven by the bass, otherwise it would be a mess. So he stepped his playing back to create more breathing room in the song, in the mix. So many of the songs on 21st Century Breakdown would have sounded completely jumbled and overwhelming had Mike continued writing his basslines the way he had been. What he adds, to serve the song, is perfect.

Green Day are great musicians because they are song-craftsmen. On top of being amazing performers, they know what a song needs, what helps it, what brings it to life and what pulls it forward. 99% of the time they are successful. And those songs always mean something. Make no mistake, music is worthless if it means nothing to you.

I agree with this 110 percent.

[J&TheNight]

I agree with this 110 percent.

I agree 120 percent.

That's right, I'm fucking petty like that.

[musso_kn]

I agree 120 percent.

That's right, I'm fucking petty like that.

Well, I agree to an infinite percentage.

Ok, so it doesn't make sense. I still own you.

[J&TheNight]

Well, I agree to an infinite percentage.

Ok, so it doesn't make sense. I still own you.

........It'll take me some time to figure out how to go past infinite.....

[Mar]

I agree with this 110 percent.

I agree 120 percent.

That's right, I'm fucking petty like that.

idk if it's necessarily unpopular, but I think 86 is a great, catchy song. It would have been a great single, I think, and could have been a concert staple.

[DannyDirnt]

I think Green Day need more drum and bass solos.

[musso_kn]

idk if it's necessarily unpopular, but I think 86 is a great, catchy song. It would have been a great single, I think, and could have been a concert staple.

I think this is popular with fans AND the band. Even though it's not a single, they HAVE played it live quite a bit (and on letterman, which I thought was interesting since it's only singles that are performed on TV host shows like that) and a live recording in Prague was the bonus track on Warning.

[Iggy2201]

1. Dos is worst album of trilogy, Uno the best

2. My favorite albums are Kerplunk, 39/smooth, AI

3. Dookie is OK, but not the best, there are songs just to fill the quantity

4. Worst songs: Misery (GOD WHY?), redundunt, restless heart syndrom, most of DOS, stuart and the ave

5. Best songs: Missing you, 99 rev, stay the night, carpe diem, Jesus of Suburbia, Whatshername, Wake me up, The One I Want, At the library, Christie road ect...

[Eva]

4. Worst songs: Misery (GOD WHY?), redundunt, restless heart syndrom, most of DOS, stuart and the ave

MY HEART. IT IS BROKEN. SOMEONE CALL AN AMBULANCE.

[J of Suburbia]

4. Worst songs: Misery (GOD WHY?), redundunt, restless heart syndrom, most of DOS, stuart and the ave

5. Best songs: Missing you, 99 rev, stay the night, carpe diem, Jesus of Suburbia, Whatshername, Wake me up, The One I Want, At the library, Christie road ect...

Opposite for me, Restless Heart Syndrome is in my top 10

[Joey]

Not to be a dick or anything but this post deserves picking apart. Just because something is long doesn't mean it is right. And this is the unpopular opinions thread after all.

Any good songwriter, and any good rock musician, sets limitations for themselves. When the focus of the music is on the song and the band and the sum of it's parts, technical abilities are worthless. When the goal is the song, then the goal is to make a connection with the listener.

That simply isn't true. Worthy artists do not limit themselves. The idea of art is to say things that are not restricted by your own, or anybody else's expectations - technical or otherwise. One of the reasons American Idiot worked was because the band tried to do something outside their comfort zone. 21CB was a mess because they tried to recreate American Idiot, and set themselves within the bounds of creating another 'concept' album commenting on contemporary society, with disastrous (I think) consequences. However, at least they tried, which brings me onto my second point...

Green Day is the best example of this. Not only are all three (four) immensely talented performers (which is the mark of any great musician), but they're also immensely talented songwriters. That's where they set themselves up as awesome musicians. So fucking what if all their songs are in 4/4? Basket Case wouldn't be Basket Case if it were in 7/4 or 12/8. It wouldn't mean the same thing if it were overtly complex. Green Day is all about serving the song so that it serves the listener. The drum fill that opens up the band in Basket Case, to continue using that example, had to be recorded many times because Tre felt he was being too grandiose about it and too crazy. The end result? One of the best drum intros in the history of music.

That's wildly missing the point. Nobody is asking for Basket Case to be rewritten in a crazy time signature. It's obviously fine as it is (although I'd question the assertion that it has one of the best drum intros in the history of music). The comment was made to suggest that in the band's career, they've not done enough to experiment with new things. Your 3 minute pop-punk songs are great, and Green Day execute them really really well, but beyond the occasional experimental track (a few ballads, a couple of instrumentals and Misery - which I love) there's little to suggest the band are happy charting untested waters, which is a shame. The trilogy is a return to the paint-by-numbers stuff they mastered years ago, and they are executing it less effectively. Van Gogh could do a mean self-portrait, but that didn't mean he spent his whole career doing nothing but that, because creative growth comes from doing new things.

Billie Joe is a great guitar player because he has an amazing sense of melody. His melodies don't follow the guitar, the guitar follows his melody. He's precise in picking out a piece on an instrument and making it sound exactly the way he wants it to. The melody is at the forefront, it's what drives the song, and the guitar is what sustains that. Viva La Gloria and Letterbomb are terrific examples of this. The chord progressions are a little tricky at first because they follow such a flowing melody, and the end result is marvelous. And on top of that it means something. That to me is more powerful than a meaningless soup of "intricate" notes.

The melody should be a means, not an end in and of itself. Why settle on what you have written when you can put meat on the bones and make it better? Letterbomb is indeed a great tune that is fleshed out in a brilliant way and clearly a lot of time had been spent crafting it. Compare it to a later tune, such as Know Your Enemy, which has a catchy enough riff but quickly wears thin and sounds like it was knocked out in 20 minutes (and you don't know the idea of eternity until you've heard it live).

And then Mike Dirnt. Incredible bassist. On the old work, he was great at filling in the melody and driving it, not just sustaining it like the guitar, but driving it forward. Little notes here and there add color, change the rhythm, and rework the dynamics. And all in the name of serving the song. On the new albums hes an even better player. The mark of a good bassist is that they know their role. On American Idiot and 21st Century Breakdown, it was evident that the band was stepping into more experimental territory. Layered guitars, layered strings, pianos, percussion accompaniments, harmony arrangements (another thing Billie Joe is really good at, by the way). The melody no longer needed to be driven by the bass, otherwise it would be a mess. So he stepped his playing back to create more breathing room in the song, in the mix. So many of the songs on 21st Century Breakdown would have sounded completely jumbled and overwhelming had Mike continued writing his basslines the way he had been. What he adds, to serve the song, is perfect.

I don't know, and I suspect you don't know either, whether it is Mike's conscious decision to stand back as a bass player. It's just a shame that, rather than construct tunes around the rhythm section, it now seems to be root notes and nothing else. The days of tunes like Longview, Minority and 80 may have long passed, which seems a shame and indicative of a certain regression. Perhaps a decent producer - and I don't think Rob Cavallo is much more than a yes man these days - could push the band much further and get a much better sound out of the tunes. If their idea of experimentation is to layer the tracks with superfluous string sections, for example, then that is missing the point.

Green Day are great musicians because they are song-craftsmen. On top of being amazing performers, they know what a song needs, what helps it, what brings it to life and what pulls it forward. 99% of the time they are successful. And those songs always mean something. Make no mistake, music is worthless if it means nothing to you.

They are indeed good songwriters, but so are Status Quo, who write tunes as if 1973 never ended. Their hit rate isn't 99% anymore, either. There's scarcely a good album's worth of material in the trilogy.

[musso_kn]

Yikes.

[Guest]

Not to be a dick or anything but this post deserves picking apart. Just because something is long doesn't mean it is right. And this is the unpopular opinions thread after all.

That simply isn't true. Worthy artists do not limit themselves. The idea of art is to say things that are not restricted by your own, or anybody else's expectations - technical or otherwise. One of the reasons American Idiot worked was because the band tried to do something outside their comfort zone. 21CB was a mess because they tried to recreate American Idiot, and set themselves within the bounds of creating another 'concept' album commenting on contemporary society, with disastrous (I think) consequences. However, at least they tried, which brings me onto my second point...

That's wildly missing the point. Nobody is asking for Basket Case to be rewritten in a crazy time signature. It's obviously fine as it is (although I'd question the assertion that it has one of the best drum intros in the history of music). The comment was made to suggest that in the band's career, they've not done enough to experiment with new things. Your 3 minute pop-punk songs are great, and Green Day execute them really really well, but beyond the occasional experimental track (a few ballads, a couple of instrumentals and Misery - which I love) there's little to suggest the band are happy charting untested waters, which is a shame. The trilogy is a return to the paint-by-numbers stuff they mastered years ago, and they are executing it less effectively. Van Gogh could do a mean self-portrait, but that didn't mean he spent his whole career doing nothing but that, because creative growth comes from doing new things.

The melody should be a means, not an end in and of itself. Why settle on what you have written when you can put meat on the bones and make it better? Letterbomb is indeed a great tune that is fleshed out in a brilliant way and clearly a lot of time had been spent crafting it. Compare it to a later tune, such as Know Your Enemy, which has a catchy enough riff but quickly wears thin and sounds like it was knocked out in 20 minutes (and you don't know the idea of eternity until you've heard it live).

I don't know, and I suspect you don't know either, whether it is Mike's conscious decision to stand back as a bass player. It's just a shame that, rather than construct tunes around the rhythm section, it now seems to be root notes and nothing else. The days of tunes like Longview, Minority and 80 may have long passed, which seems a shame and indicative of a certain regression. Perhaps a decent producer - and I don't think Rob Cavallo is much more than a yes man these days - could push the band much further and get a much better sound out of the tunes. If their idea of experimentation is to layer the tracks with superfluous string sections, for example, then that is missing the point.

They are indeed good songwriters, but so are Status Quo, who write tunes as if 1973 never ended. Their hit rate isn't 99% anymore, either. There's scarcely a good album's worth of material in the trilogy.

We should be friends.

[LazyPhil]

1. Dos is worst album of trilogy, Uno the best

2. My favorite albums are Kerplunk, 39/smooth, AI

3. Dookie is OK, but not the best, there are songs just to fill the quantity

4. Worst songs: Misery (GOD WHY?), redundunt, restless heart syndrom, most of DOS, stuart and the ave

5. Best songs: Missing you, 99 rev, stay the night, carpe diem, Jesus of Suburbia, Whatshername, Wake me up, The One I Want, At the library, Christie road ect...

WHY REDUNDANT?!??!?!?

[Cob]

Not to be a dick or anything but this post deserves picking apart. Just because something is long doesn't mean it is right. And this is the unpopular opinions thread after all.

Hard to be "right" when I was just stating my opinion on the discussion. There is no right or wrong in a subjective discussion. Just throwin' that out there.

That simply isn't true. Worthy artists do not limit themselves. The idea of art is to say things that are not restricted by your own, or anybody else's expectations - technical or otherwise. One of the reasons American Idiot worked was because the band tried to do something outside their comfort zone. 21CB was a mess because they tried to recreate American Idiot, and set themselves within the bounds of creating another 'concept' album commenting on contemporary society, with disastrous (I think) consequences. However, at least they tried, which brings me onto my second point...

That's wildly missing the point. Nobody is asking for Basket Case to be rewritten in a crazy time signature. It's obviously fine as it is (although I'd question the assertion that it has one of the best drum intros in the history of music). The comment was made to suggest that in the band's career, they've not done enough to experiment with new things. Your 3 minute pop-punk songs are great, and Green Day execute them really really well, but beyond the occasional experimental track (a few ballads, a couple of instrumentals and Misery - which I love) there's little to suggest the band are happy charting untested waters, which is a shame. The trilogy is a return to the paint-by-numbers stuff they mastered years ago, and they are executing it less effectively. Van Gogh could do a mean self-portrait, but that didn't mean he spent his whole career doing nothing but that, because creative growth comes from doing new things.

The melody should be a means, not an end in and of itself. Why settle on what you have written when you can put meat on the bones and make it better? Letterbomb is indeed a great tune that is fleshed out in a brilliant way and clearly a lot of time had been spent crafting it. Compare it to a later tune, such as Know Your Enemy, which has a catchy enough riff but quickly wears thin and sounds like it was knocked out in 20 minutes (and you don't know the idea of eternity until you've heard it live).

I don't know, and I suspect you don't know either, whether it is Mike's conscious decision to stand back as a bass player. It's just a shame that, rather than construct tunes around the rhythm section, it now seems to be root notes and nothing else. The days of tunes like Longview, Minority and 80 may have long passed, which seems a shame and indicative of a certain regression. Perhaps a decent producer - and I don't think Rob Cavallo is much more than a yes man these days - could push the band much further and get a much better sound out of the tunes. If their idea of experimentation is to layer the tracks with superfluous string sections, for example, then that is missing the point.

They are indeed good songwriters, but so are Status Quo, who write tunes as if 1973 never ended. Their hit rate isn't 99% anymore, either. There's scarcely a good album's worth of material in the trilogy.

• It is completely possible for an artist to set out and set limitations for themselves. It's called setting a goal. Those goals, especially when your band has lasted 20+ years expand and retract based on your personal feelings and expectations. That's why Green Day has been able to continuously evolve and reconfigure their sound. Every artist does this, even when they say "I'm going into this without a goal" that's their goal. Every musician has a core, an origin and a base. Green Day has pushed this base and continuously expanded on it. And they've done it remarkably. Insomniac is not Dookie. Nimrod is not Insomniac. Warning is not Nimrod. etc. The only time they've really "repeated" themselves was with 21st Century Breakdown, and even then it's different from American Idiot in several key ways. They've pushed and progressed it to reach their personal goals, and for the most part they have achieved that. If you don't think they have, that's fine, but I do. American Idiot was a spontaneous thing, sure, but it's not that far out of the band's comfort zone. Is it experimental? Absolutely. But that album was set up in 1997 and 2000 when Nimrod and Warning came out. It's just part of their natural progression as a group. That is, of course, a mark of good musicianship.
• The Basket Case remark was an example on why Green Day doesn't do strange time signatures. It wouldn't be as effective for what they are trying to achieve, especially since that was a song that started as something more ambitious that the band remolded into one of the best rock songs in the history of recorded music. I disagree by the way, this band has gone into uncharted territory several times. If they hadn't, then a) they would not be as successful as they are and b) they wouldn't have such a divided fan base.
• The purpose of the melody isn't down to "should" or "should not". The melody is meant to serve what the artist wants it serve. Billie Joe uses the melody as the pilot, as the foundation for the music that's built on top of that and as the messenger for his lyrics. That's because he wants the music to be melodic because that's the type of music that he and the band enjoy. Overtime the way the band does this has changed, evidenced by how his guitar approach has evolved and how Mike Dirnt's role has changed. And the purpose of the melody/guitar part is going to change depending on what the song or the songwriter needs. The band chose to make Letterbomb one way and Know Your Enemy another based on what the song's goal was and what the song needed. Take a look at East Jesus Nowhere Lady Cobra. Those guitar parts are almost completely independent of the vocal melody. And yet the mend together perfectly.
• Mike Dirnt stated in a couple of interviews with bass player magazines and the like that he purposely changed his approach to his bass lines as the music evolved. Unfortunately I don't have the sources in front of me (I really wish I did, they were great interviews) so I guess you're free to take that with a grain of salt.

Anyway, like I said before, Green Day's focus has always been on songwriting, not on gratuitous musicianship. It just so happens that this is also what makes them great musicians in my eyes, regardless of whether I think the Trilogy has "enough good material" or not. It just so happens that I think it's fantastic.

This is one of the best posts I've ever read. If I could like it 1,000 times I would. I generally detest the "onion" analogy, but right now I can't think of a better way to describe it- their songs on the surface seem relatively simple structurally and musically, and that's where much of the genius lies. As you peel back the layers you start to expose much of the incredible complexity and beauty- the unique way Billie's melody overlaps his chord progressions in an independent yet complementary fashion, the way Mike's bassline ties in Tre's drumming to both the melody and the guitar...and to top it off, as you mention, the melodies and harmonies both run parallel and yet independent of the progression that he and Jason are playing. None of these things taken as a singular element is particularly genius (although all parts are executed very well), but layered all together they form something incredible. I love the way you articulate this dynamic. Song craftsmen of songs that mean something. That's the magic right there.

^Hey said my opinion better than me. Rebut his point.

[joeysturkeyhead]

Anyway, bit off-topicish there, but Mike and Tré have the prequisite skills to expand Green Day's sound. I'd just love for them to do it. They've taken this sound as far as they can possibly go.

I'd definitely like to hear more bass and drums in their songs. More songs with basslines through the whole song, like No One Knows. The videos you posted on the last page really shows their talent.

[Misterglasshalfempty]

Warning: This is my rant of the week, maybe even month. If you love the trilogy and hate people who don't, please leave now.

I don't get the love for the trilogy-albums at all. They sound like one big b-side compilation to me. They have grown on me, and I have had a few favorites off of them, but so is the case with Shenanigans. And i honestly don't know what to think when I hear people on this forum say that Uno! is their best album, and that let yourself go is the perfect Green Day song. I almost cry. Take Uno: the songs are overly simple, the lyrics are quite unsettling at first listen, and after about five replays there is nothing to keep me coming back. At times, I try to sit back and objectively think, "Hm, which of these songs would have been good enough for their previous albums, and shows fine quality in every aspect?", and I end up with this list from Uno:

- Stay the night - Kind of a meh-song to me, but it could have been epic. The word epic, by the way, has lost all of it's meaning being used to describe this project. The songs aren't epic, they are very much non-epic. Even songs like DRB have that garage-feel to it. Imagine DRB being recorded on 21BC...

- Kill the DJ - The only song that stirs some shit up on Uno. Every other song is just one big thing

- Oh love - being the love it or hate it song of the album, I think it deserves recognition for the same reason as Kill the DJ

Some would argue that Nuclear family or Carpe diem should be on the list. Well, they are among the best songs on Uno, but using the rest of Uno as a standard isn't really good enough. Face it, Nuclear family is repetitive as hell, and it doesn't go anywhere. Does it even have a chorus?

Dos and Tre are sadly not a lot better. Tre is the best of the bunch, but it is indeed a sad bunch.

- Lazy bones - could have been even more epic, but this songs has the best lyrics Billie has ever written.

- Wild one - Cool shit!

- Stray heart

- Amy

- Brutal Love - This song is good, and although the booklet states that they borrowed a little something from Cook, it still bothers me. Anyway, good song.

- Drama queen - Would have fit better with a grandiose 21CB-sound, but still good.

- X-kid - Good stuff

- Dirty rotten bastards - Great song, could have been even greater had it been done in AI-style.

Oh, and bring back the Marshall-stacks. Other than this, have a good day.

[Misterglasshalfempty]

a song doesn't have to be ""epic"" to be good. one of the reasons why i like the trilogy so much is because it's just simple (or at least a lot less complex than the last two albums) fun music.

as for nuclear family being repetitive... the only part that's repeated at all is the chorus (like a chinese drama blah blah etc) ...i mean, come on. out of all the songs on the trilogy where the chorus is nothing but the title of the song repeated a bunch of times, that's the one you're choosing to single out as being repetitive?

A song can certainly be good without being epic, I'ms just saying I'm tired of this whole thing to be labeled that way.

And the structure of Nuclear family is just a good example of a song that doesn't go anywhere at all. I chose that song as an example because a lot of people say it's such a good song.

[DannyDirnt]

I don't know how Nuclear Family's that good either. I find it good, but not that much.

Plus I'm starting to love ¡Uno! much more. Fell for You is so beautiful now that I don't associate it with chocolate biscuits anymore

[Snows]

I don't know how Nuclear Family's that good either. I find it good, but not that much.

Plus I'm starting to love ¡Uno! much more. Fell for You is so beautiful now that I don't associate it with chocolate biscuits anymore

Why the hell you'd done this?

[joeysturkeyhead]

Why the hell you'd done this?

I don't know how Nuclear Family's that good either. I find it good, but not that much.

Plus I'm starting to love ¡Uno! much more. Fell for You is so beautiful now that I don't associate it with chocolate biscuits anymore

Because you fell for chocolate biscuits? I'm not judging...

[Snows]

Because you fell for chocolate biscuits? I'm not judging...

Well, I can understand that!