WhiteTim Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 that's exactly the point though. billie refrained from going into detail. hating someone is not the same as graphically depicting their murder. Hate is the same thing Billie just smarter not to for public image Hell Em doesnt perform any of the songs that ref Kim but Billie still performs his hate song occasionally to a DEAD MAN who cant even respond Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteTim Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 No need for name-calling. And there's a difference between singing about hating someone and singing about your plan to violently kill someone you hate. What plan? If you show me what plans and he really did it I'll gladly hand over every single dollar in my bank account hell I'll give you the keys to my Cali residence... Show me where he planned and WHERE he went thru it Some of yall really take music way too seriously So, you've got more indignation over a song about a guy Billie doesn't like than you do about a song that oozes hatred and normalizes/justifies violence against women. Got it. But yet Em doesnt performs those songs Yet the guy who Billie hates is dead been dead for yyeeeeeaaarrrrsss is STILL singing the song? Who really is the obessed one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eva Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 What plan? If you show me what plans and he really did it I'll gladly hand over every single dollar in my bank account hell I'll give you the keys to my Cali residence... Show me where he planned and WHERE he went thru it Some of yall really take music way too seriously The fact that he wrote an entire song about killing her is a plan. He thought about it. He wrote about it. He told people about it. Music is to be taken seriously. It is a form of expression, and usually, it is where one's most personal feelings, thoughts, and emotions are heard and communicated to others. That is why it is worrying. He is expressing himself in an oppressive, misogynistic way and oppression and misogyny are not okay. Ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteTim Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 You clearly do not want to understand oppression or the culture of violence against women and everything that it entails, and you just want to argue that "we take music too seriously." We get that you don't think it's a big deal. There. Do you feel validated and heard now? I completely understand the oppression and the culture of abuse women just fine I've donated and even helped to keep a shelter for abusive women to remain open in Houston so I understand the oppression just fine. I also know music is music and can't say an artist is PERSONALLY anything BASED off music alone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eva Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 I completely understand the oppression and the culture of abuse women just fine I've donated and even helped to keep a shelter for abusive women to remain open in Houston so I understand the oppression just fine. I also know music is music and can't say an artist is PERSONALLY anything BASED off music alone I just give up because you obviously don't understand oppression, rape culture, abuse, or misogyny because by saying there is nothing problematic with Eminem's song Kim, you are allowing the oppression to slide without a word of protest. Even if it does not represent Eminem as a person, it encourages misogyny in general, which is not okay. Whether or not music represents the artist or not, the song represents a very serious topic that should never be portrayed in a positive light. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blitzkriegdeb Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 What plan? If you show me what plans and he really did it I'll gladly hand over every single dollar in my bank account hell I'll give you the keys to my Cali residence... Show me where he planned and WHERE he went thru it Some of yall really take music way too seriously But yet Em doesnt performs those songs Yet the guy who Billie hates is dead been dead for yyeeeeeaaarrrrsss is STILL singing the song? Who really is the obessed one? The plan was in his lyrics. Just because Eminem doesn't perform it doesn't erase it. That song is an obsessive, neurotic, victim-blaming spew-fest that doesn't lose any credibility because of how often is played or how much he apologized. Do Platypus and Kim hold the same amount of hate in their lyrics? I suppose you could argue that. However, have someone listen to the two songs back to back and I would garuntee you that they would be more disturbed by Kim, for good reason. Platypus is a big fuck-you. Kim is a murder plan set to a beat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cob Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 They say the telephone works both ways Think you can make a little effort some day? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteTim Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 I just give up because you obviously don't understand oppression, rape culture, abuse, or misogyny because by saying there is nothing problematic with Eminem's song Kim, you are allowing the oppression to slide without a word of protest. Even if it does not represent Eminem as a person, it encourages misogyny in general, which is not okay. Whether or not music represents the artist or not, the song represents a very serious topic that should never be portrayed in a positive light. Drum I've always liked your posts and I respect you but please don't ever tell me what I do or do not understand you don't know what I've seen or the things I've had to testify to and how it has fucked me up thank you. Believe me I understand abuse or battered women and men I've personally donated more money than most people make in 3 years. And really if you or others aren't doing anything than just not buying a cd then you aint helping out... BUT on the other hand I can understand the anger cause I have had an vindictive ex one I've never laid hands on and would never in life do that I'm not justifying that or even it was right of Em doing so I just said it's a anger thing and he expressed his thoughts which last I looked he was free to do be it hate or love he allowed to And you're right I shouldn't have called you names yoi're not an idiot I just don't view "Kim" as anything more than just a song. But everyone is entitled to their opinions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eva Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 Drum I've always liked your posts and I respect you but please don't ever tell me what I do or do not understand you don't know what I've seen or the things I've had to testify to and how it has fucked me up thank you. Believe me I understand abuse or battered women and men I've personally donated more money than most people make in 3 years. And really if you or others aren't doing anything than just not buying a cd then you aint helping out... BUT on the other hand I can understand the anger cause I have had an vindictive ex one I've never laid hands on and would never in life do that I'm not justifying that or even it was right of Em doing so I just said it's a anger thing and he expressed his thoughts which last I looked he was free to do be it hate or love he allowed to If you are trying to threaten me by with the bit about always respecting me and I don't know what you've been through, that doesn't work on me, buddy. Although, you are in correct in that I don't know what you've been through. However, I did not say that I knew what you've been through. I merely stated that I believe if you really supported an idea and understood it, you would understand why a song that is threatening violence and murder towards a woman is problematic. Donating money does not make you a good person. Not buying a CD does not make you a good person. You know what does? Standing up for people, which is all I'm doing. I appreciate the fact that you've donated money, but that doesn't mean shit, in the long run. If I wanted to, I could donate money to the KKK. I wouldn't, of course, but that really doesn't mean much. Plus, who knows what organizations are actually trustworthy these days? Although, I do appreciate you've been trying to help. Now, your last paragraph is problematic because for however long we've been talking about this, it's sounded like you've been justifying Eminem. Please clear that up. Otherwise, your entire argument has just become invalid and completely contradictory. Also, the fact that he wrote the song doesn't bother me, in the long run. The fact that he released it to millions of people and encouraged violent, misogynistic behavior bothers me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ritz Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 what's happening? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eva Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 what's happening? heated discussions about social justice issues because apparently that shows up on GDC all the time nowadays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteTim Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 Now, your last paragraph is problematic because for however long we've been talking about this, it's sounded like you've been justifying Eminem. Please clear that up. Otherwise, your entire argument has just become invalid and completely contradictory. Also, the fact that he wrote the song doesn't bother me, in the long run. The fact that he released it to millions of people and encouraged violent, misogynistic behavior bothers me. I'm not justifying Em for the song I've never once said Em should do songs like Kim and more songs like that. All my defense to it is it was a song made in anger and at a certain time frame I could understand the reason. And also you can't truly form a fact about a person off a song/movie/entertainment field. There are plenty of artists that never once made a sexist song or remark but have beaten their wives/gf nearly to death but piblic wise have the nicest personality. I'm not saying Em was right to do the song truth is I havent even listenes to that track since probally 07 but I view it as a song written in extremely anger yeah it shouldn't have been released but i have related to the hate in it (not the killing part) and he has the right to write it. And no I'm not threatening you sorry if you took it that way I was just meaning dont say I dont know or understanding the oppossion or the culture of abused women Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eva Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 I'm not justifying Em for the song I've never once said Em should do songs like Kim and more songs like that. All my defense to it is it was a song made in anger and at a certain time frame I could understand the reason. And also you can't truly form a fact about a person off a song/movie/entertainment field. There are plenty of artists that never once made a sexist song or remark but have beaten their wives/gf nearly to death but piblic wise have the nicest personality. I'm not saying Em was right to do the song truth is I havent even listenes to that track since probally 07 but I view it as a song written in extremely anger yeah it shouldn't have been released but i have related to the hate in it (not the killing part) and he has the right to write it. Well, see, that makes a lot more sense. The way you were coming off earlier, to me at least, sounded like you were completely justifying Eminem. I understand where you're coming from now. I still don't think he should or should have been allowed to release the song. And I still don't think the song is okay, or ever will be okay. But whatever. I'm kind of done with this discussion, seeing as this is completely off-topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 You guys have gone way off topic of this thread. If you want to continue discussion then take it to PM and keep it out of here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cob Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 Little late to the fiesta. Soo....Green Day. What a nice band of blokes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eva Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 You guys have gone way off topic of this thread. If you want to continue discussion then take it to PM and keep it out of here. yeah, we're done now, pretty sure. sorry about that. Little late to the fiesta. Soo....Green Day. What a nice band of blokes. Unpopular opinion: Green Gay sux omg they're not even real punx!!!!! Legit question though, is Insomniac being Green Day's best album an unpopular opinion? Because if so, that's one of mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cob Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 So this might be a particularly unpopular opinion, but I'm going to roll with it because that's the point of this thread: Whenever Green Day is inducted to the Rock N' Roll Hall of Fame, whether that be next year or in the future, I think that Jason White should be inducted with them. In the likely even that he is inducted with them, I absolutely KNOW that there is going to be a shitstorm, which is why I bring it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eva Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 So this might be a particularly unpopular opinion, but I'm going to roll with it because that's the point of this thread: Whenever Green Day is inducted to the Rock N' Roll Hall of Fame, whether that be next year or in the future, I think that Jason White should be inducted with them. In the likely even that he is inducted with them, I absolutely KNOW that there is going to be a shitstorm, which is why I bring it up. I don't actually know that much about Jason and his involvement with the band (because I'm an awful excuse for a fan ) but he seems to be pretty damn important to the inner workings and writing process of the band, so I agree with you on that. But yeah, if he's inducted, there probably will be a shit storm. Because Jason's "not officially a member of Green Day!" Except, technically, he was a member of the band for the Trilogy because he was credited as the guitar player on all songs, not just one or two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HolyHandGrenade Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 So this might be a particularly unpopular opinion, but I'm going to roll with it because that's the point of this thread: Whenever Green Day is inducted to the Rock N' Roll Hall of Fame, whether that be next year or in the future, I think that Jason White should be inducted with them. In the likely even that he is inducted with them, I absolutely KNOW that there is going to be a shitstorm, which is why I bring it up. He's done more for the band than anyone gives him credit for - both on stage, and simply following these three goofs around the globe, being part of their life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cob Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 He's done more for the band than anyone gives him credit for - both on stage, and simply following these three goofs around the globe, being part of their life. And for 10+ years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ritz Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 Jason is the man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
munns6691 Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 Insomniac is good but nothing special, behind American Idiot, Nimrod, and Kerplunk for me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenesisJames Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 So this might be a particularly unpopular opinion, but I'm going to roll with it because that's the point of this thread: Whenever Green Day is inducted to the Rock N' Roll Hall of Fame, whether that be next year or in the future, I think that Jason White should be inducted with them. In the likely even that he is inducted with them, I absolutely KNOW that there is going to be a shitstorm, which is why I bring it up. YES. I AGREE WITH THIS SO MUCH. Jason needs love. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klytaemnestra Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 If I recall correctly the issue wan't violent lyricism it was violent lyricism that was misogynistic and seemingly promoted domestic violence. If my memory is intact, I'm pretty sure Billie Joe has never done so. In fact, the dude has always seemed pretty scared of women And he also didn't recreate such hypothetical abuse on stage in front of thousands of people.love you, cob.not dragging this up again mostly bc i haven't bothered reading through the majority of the posts after i left. just wanna reiterate that i do kind of love eminem, i just have a lot of problems with 'kim' and a few other of his songs.also jason rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackInABox86 Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 Billie's rapping in Nightlife is waaay better than any rapping Eminem could put out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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