The Forgotten Posted May 29, 2013 Share Posted May 29, 2013 I have a dream where the measure of our favorite band's punk attitude will be overshadowed by the measure of their talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eva Posted May 29, 2013 Share Posted May 29, 2013 I have a dream where the measure of our favorite band's punk attitude will be overshadowed by the measure of their talent I have a dream that people measure a band's importance on their long-term influence and not their album sales. Green Day did more for punk than The fuckin' Ramones...bah humbug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cob Posted May 29, 2013 Share Posted May 29, 2013 I have a dream where the measure of our favorite band's punk attitude will be overshadowed by the measure of their talent It already has. Dream about when people will fucking realize that. I have a dream that people measure a band's importance on their long-term influence and not their album sales. Green Day did more for punk than The fuckin' Ramones...bah humbug. They may not have done more but they did have a massive impact on music around the world. The Ramones may have started the genre and all that (awesome) jazz, but they didn't have the reach that Green Day has had. You're a unique case because you found Green Day through punk rock, and I'm in between, but it's not hard to recognize that Green Day is, for a lot of people, a gateway band. They are absolutely excellent and at the top of the genre, but it's so easy to find a lot of great bands through Green Day. That's what our friend was saying there. Not that Green Day is more important than The Ramones, but in terms of impact, they are just as important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermione Posted May 29, 2013 Share Posted May 29, 2013 But Jesus of Suburbia is all we've got when it comes to a story-based video in American Idiot. How can you hate that?I hate the way the characters are portrayed as a bunch of pathetic little posers who I want to slap . And the emo style hand cutting bit is beyond ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteTim Posted May 29, 2013 Share Posted May 29, 2013 The whole punk not punk debate who cares hell the group hell Billie even has said in the GW that he doesn't think they ever were a punk band... As far as the induction they will get in when they are up for it (is it 2014?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eva Posted May 29, 2013 Share Posted May 29, 2013 They may not have done more but they did have a massive impact on music around the world. The Ramones may have started the genre and all that (awesome) jazz, but they didn't have the reach that Green Day has had. You're a unique case because you found Green Day through punk rock, and I'm in between, but it's not hard to recognize that Green Day is, for a lot of people, a gateway band. They are absolutely excellent and at the top of the genre, but it's so easy to find a lot of great bands through Green Day. That's what our friend was saying there. Not that Green Day is more important than The Ramones, but in terms of impact, they are just as important. In the long-term, I would argue The Ramones did have the impact Green Day has had, because without The Ramones, there would have been no Green Day. The way you phrased it makes a lot more sense. From the post Flyingdonutz made, it sounded like they were saying Green Day was better and more influential than The Ramones. While the "better" part is an opinion, I'm sticking to the idea that The Ramones (and The Sex Pistols) will always be the most influential bands in the history of punk rock. They created it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cob Posted May 29, 2013 Share Posted May 29, 2013 The whole punk not punk debate who cares hell the group hell Billie even has said in the GW that he doesn't think they ever were a punk band... As far as the induction they will get in when they are up for it (is it 2014?) But that's another thing. Billie is always changing his fucking answer. As a person who is a fan of several cross-over punk bands, it's really difficult to not be frustrated with Billie since he's always changing his fucking answer to the questions. Everyone else at least says "Yes" or "No" regardless of what the response or backlash has been or will be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eva Posted May 29, 2013 Share Posted May 29, 2013 The whole punk not punk debate who cares hell the group hell Billie even has said in the GW that he doesn't think they ever were a punk band... As far as the induction they will get in when they are up for it (is it 2014?) The whole "Ramones vs. Green Day" thing is what got me riled up. I've given up with the whole "Green Day was a punk band but haven't been one since 1997, at least" argument. Everyone just yells at me. It's pointless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Forgotten Posted May 29, 2013 Share Posted May 29, 2013 ^ Eva makes a point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eva Posted May 29, 2013 Share Posted May 29, 2013 But that's another thing. Billie is always changing his fucking answer. As a person who is a fan of several cross-over punk bands, it's really difficult to not be frustrated with Billie since he's always changing his fucking answer to the questions. Everyone else at least says "Yes" or "No" regardless of what the response or backlash has been or will be. Oh, Billie. ^ Eva makes a point. I always do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Forgotten Posted May 29, 2013 Share Posted May 29, 2013 Yea Billie is wishy washy as hell with his opinions. He doesn't understand that he has fans that keep track of every answer to every answer he's given. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteTim Posted May 29, 2013 Share Posted May 29, 2013 But that's another thing. Billie is always changing his fucking answer. As a person who is a fan of several cross-over punk bands, it's really difficult to not be frustrated with Billie since he's always changing his fucking answer to the questions. Everyone else at least says "Yes" or "No" regardless of what the response or backlash has been or will be. Oh he has? Not surprising there lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cob Posted May 29, 2013 Share Posted May 29, 2013 In the long-term, I would argue The Ramones did have the impact Green Day has had, because without The Ramones, there would have been no Green Day. The way you phrased it makes a lot more sense. From the post Flyingdonutz made, it sounded like they were saying Green Day was better and more influential than The Ramones. While the "better" part is an opinion, I'm sticking to the idea that The Ramones (and The Sex Pistols) will always be the most influential bands in the history of punk rock. They created it. From my perspective, The Ramones certainly did have that impact but only because bands like Green Day or Metallica gave them the chance to do so. I hope that makes sense. The Ramones, The Pistols, and The Clash have had an incredible impact because they created the genre, but people wouldn't really know or care had it not been for the success of Green Day and, to a certain extent, Nirvana. Bands like The Ramones created the message, but it was ultimately Green Day and Rancid and all those guys that really got that message to the public. And they spread the banner of the hardcore too, since all the more recent bands also love The Dead Kennedys, Minor Threat, The Descendents, and Black Flag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyingdonutz Posted May 29, 2013 Share Posted May 29, 2013 I am going to tackle this one point at a time. First of all, the fact that Billie Joe is not afraid to take his pants off in front millions of people has nothing to do with the band's status of punk rock. It's not even related to what punk rock is, unless you count that as taking down stereotypes and smashing the system. If you do, other bands have done a lot more than he has. Second, there have been a ton of great punk rock singers. Joe Strummer, for example, was fuckin' great. He just didn't "show it off" because it didn't fit in with the kind of music The Clash was playing. He brings out his spectacular voice on a couple of songs though, and they're fantastic. As for, "they changed punk in a way The Ramones and The Clash didn't"..................................................no. The Ramones and The Clash invented punk rock. They didn't change punk rock because they created it. Green Day's a fantastic band, but you can't argue that they've done more for the punk scene than The Ramones, for Christ's Sake. There has never been one definite answer as to which band is the father of punk rock, but it is always narrowed down to two: The Ramones or The Sex Pistols. The Ramones did more for punk rock than Green Day will ever do because they helped created it. They were the fathers of punk. Green Day, however fantastic they are, were not the fathers of punk. I don't mean to stomp all over your opinions, but Green Day's state of punk has nothing to do with the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. They are a great band. They're going to get in eventually. How punk rock they are has nothing to do with it. Chuck Berry was the father of Rock n' Roll. Bands like The Beatles, The Stones, ACDC, Aerosmith, even Rush, or Kiss, CHANGED, key word being CHANGED, Rock n' Roll, and are given a lot more credit for that genre than Chuck Berry, or Elvis Presley. Green Day's influence on their genre and fans has everything to do with the HOF. Rush has only 40 million albums sales. They're still one of the best bands of all time, Geddy Lee is one of the best singers, Alex Lifeson is one of the best guitarists, and Neil Peart is without a doubt the best drummer of all time. They influenced their genre and fans, so much it was crazy, but they certainly did not father in Rock n Roll. I figured my comments would get some heat. Not a problem. That's what this thread is for. If Green Day didn't sign to Reprise, where would punk rock be now? Would bands like Blink and Sum 41, and Fall Out Boy, have signed to major labels? We won't know. Because they did. It was only a matter of time before being Punk wasn't about how much money you were making, and Green Day were the band that was creative enough, and talented enough to do that. The Sex PIstols come out and say Green Day aren't punk. They complain because they're complaining about "american problems" in europe. That's ignorance at its finest. And since they've done that I have lost all respect for that band. Jealousy is funny sometimes. I think creating a genre doesn't instantly make you the best of that genre. And it doesn't mean you did the most for it. I would be bold enough to say that Green Day have influenced more musicians than the Ramones did. Maybe the Ramones started the punk movement, but Green Day stepped outside of that and they influence not only punk rockers like themselves, but other people too. /rantend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cob Posted May 29, 2013 Share Posted May 29, 2013 It's ironic that Johnny Rotten semi-seriously insults Green Day on a daily basis but him and his band have benefited the most from the rise in popularity of punk and classic rock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eva Posted May 29, 2013 Share Posted May 29, 2013 Chuck Berry was the father of Rock n' Roll. Bands like The Beatles, The Stones, ACDC, Aerosmith, even Rush, or Kiss, CHANGED, key word being CHANGED, Rock n' Roll, and are given a lot more credit for that genre than Chuck Berry, or Elvis Presley. Green Day's influence on their genre and fans has everything to do with the HOF. Rush has only 40 million albums sales. They're still one of the best bands of all time, Geddy Lee is one of the best singers, Alex Lifeson is one of the best guitarists, and Neil Peart is without a doubt the best drummer of all time. They influenced their genre and fans, so much it was crazy, but they certainly did not father in Rock n Roll. I figured my comments would get some heat. Not a problem. That's what this thread is for. If Green Day didn't sign to Reprise, where would punk rock be now? Would bands like Blink and Sum 41, and Fall Out Boy, have signed to major labels? We won't know. Because they did. It was only a matter of time before being Punk wasn't about how much money you were making, and Green Day were the band that was creative enough, and talented enough to do that. The Sex PIstols come out and say Green Day aren't punk. They complain because they're complaining about "american problems" in europe. That's ignorance at its finest. And since they've done that I have lost all respect for that band. Jealousy is funny sometimes. I think creating a genre doesn't instantly make you the best of that genre. And it doesn't mean you did the most for it. I would be bold enough to say that Green Day have influenced more musicians than the Ramones did. Maybe the Ramones started the punk movement, but Green Day stepped outside of that and they influence not only punk rockers like themselves, but other people too. /rantend "I think creating a genre doesn't instantly make you the best of that genre. And it doesn't mean you did the most for it." A) I did not say The Ramones were the best. B) They did the most for it because they started it. You can't change something if it was never started. Ergo, without The Ramones, Green Day wouldn't exist. Without The Ramones, Green Day could not have gone on to change punk rock. Without The Ramones, Green Day would have not gone on to influence so many fans and other bands. I never said Green Day hasn't had an enormous influence because they certainly have. They haven't had as much influence as The Ramones, in my opinion, and I'm going to stick by that. Without The Ramones, there would be no Black Flag, Dead Kennedys, Green Day, Blink-182, Operation Ivy, Sum 41, All Time Low, Nirvana, Exploited, Andrew Jackson Jihad, Bikini Kill, Flogging Molly, Dropkick Murphys, Defiance Ohio, Swingin' Utters, and a million other bands. Green Day may have directly influenced tons of bands, but The Ramones influenced Green Day. It's ironic that Johnny Rotten semi-seriously insults Green Day on a daily basis but him and his band have benefited the most from the rise in popularity of punk and classic rock. I really like that he does butter commercials. My God, I love that man and his band but he makes me laugh so hard. "Green Day are filthy fucking sellouts. Buy butter." Oh, Johnny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteTim Posted May 29, 2013 Share Posted May 29, 2013 ::sarcastic dick:: but the Ramones were fan voted the second greatest group only behind the Beatles on spin.com 2 years ago but GD wasnt even list ::end sarcastic rant:: It's one thing to say you think Green Day is a better band but to downplay Ramones The Clash and hell even Pistols influence is just wrong... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyingdonutz Posted May 29, 2013 Share Posted May 29, 2013 "I think creating a genre doesn't instantly make you the best of that genre. And it doesn't mean you did the most for it." A) I did not say The Ramones were the best. B) They did the most for it because they started it. You can't change something if it was never started. Ergo, without The Ramones, Green Day wouldn't exist. Without The Ramones, Green Day could not have gone on to change punk rock. Without The Ramones, Green Day would have not gone on to influence so many fans and other bands. I never said Green Day hasn't had an enormous influence because they certainly have. They haven't had as much influence as The Ramones, in my opinion, and I'm going to stick by that. Without The Ramones, there would be no Black Flag, Dead Kennedys, Green Day, Blink-182, Operation Ivy, Sum 41, All Time Low, Nirvana, Exploited, Andrew Jackson Jihad, Bikini Kill, Flogging Molly, Dropkick Murphys, Defiance Ohio, Swingin' Utters, and a million other bands. Green Day may have directly influenced tons of bands, but The Ramones influenced Green Day. I really like that he does butter commercials. My God, I love that man and his band but he makes me laugh so hard. "Green Day are filthy fucking sellouts. Buy butter." Oh, Johnny. Chuck Berry influenced The Beatles. The Beatles influenced.. every single thing in music there is today EVER SINCE EVER. Chuck Berry started rock n roll. He influenced not only the Beatles, but he influenced the Stones, Pink Floyd, Aerosmith, Led Zeppelin, etc. It's an exaggerated example, but people like John Lennon, Paul McCartney, David Gilmour, Mick Jagger, Steven Tyler, Joe Perry, Robert Plant, simply wouldn't exist if not for him, but he's not as talented, as creative, as they are. He hasn't done as much for the genre as they have.. from my perspective. He influenced them, but those bands influenced everything we see today. They took what he did and made it more appealing to kids. Green Day did the same with punk, imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteTim Posted May 29, 2013 Share Posted May 29, 2013 Chuck Berry wasn't talented??? Um ok... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cob Posted May 29, 2013 Share Posted May 29, 2013 ::sarcastic dick:: but the Ramones were fan voted the second greatest group only behind the Beatles on spin.com 2 years ago but GD wasnt even list ::end sarcastic rant:: It's one thing to say you think Green Day is a better band but to downplay Ramones The Clash and hell even Pistols influence is just wrong... I don't think anyone is downplaying their impact. I certainly hope I'm not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyingdonutz Posted May 29, 2013 Share Posted May 29, 2013 ::sarcastic dick:: but the Ramones were fan voted the second greatest group only behind the Beatles on spin.com 2 years ago but GD wasnt even list ::end sarcastic rant:: It's one thing to say you think Green Day is a better band but to downplay Ramones The Clash and hell even Pistols influence is just wrong... I'm not trying to downplay it. I'm simply saying I believe Green Day have had more of an influence on the genre. I'm not denying their influence in any way. It's obvious they've had a massive influence because without them, there would be no Green Day. So maybe yes, indirectly, they've influenced the genre more than Green Day, but directly, I think Green Day have influenced more bands and more musicians and more people in general. Because they have been listened to more, and because they've been around, touring, and playing shows longer. They've been active for over 20 years, The Clash, The Ramones, and the Pistols can't say that. If you look at it from one perspective, they've done more than Green Day, but if you look at it from another, they haven't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eva Posted May 29, 2013 Share Posted May 29, 2013 Chuck Berry wasn't talented??? Um ok... I like Chuck Berry a lot more than I like The Beatles. Just putting that out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyingdonutz Posted May 29, 2013 Share Posted May 29, 2013 Chuck Berry wasn't talented??? Um ok... Mario Lemieux wasn't as talented as Wayne Gretzky. He's still one of the best hockey players of all time. I needn't say more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eva Posted May 29, 2013 Share Posted May 29, 2013 I'm not trying to downplay it. I'm simply saying I believe Green Day have had more of an influence on the genre. I'm not denying their influence in any way. It's obvious they've had a massive influence because without them, there would be no Green Day. So maybe yes, indirectly, they've influenced the genre more than Green Day, but directly, I think Green Day have influenced more bands and more musicians and more people in general. Because they have been listened to more, and because they've been around, touring, and playing shows longer. They've been active for over 20 years, The Clash, The Ramones, and the Pistols can't say that. If you look at it from one perspective, they've done more than Green Day, but if you look at it from another, they haven't. The Ramones formed in 1974 and were active until 1996. That's 22 years. Just like Green Day. The Ramones were extremely popular. They weren't extremely popular in the mainstream, but in the underground punk scene? Jesus H. Christ, they were a popular band. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Forgotten Posted May 29, 2013 Share Posted May 29, 2013 Just throwing this out there.... I'm apparently one of the few people on earth who isn't at all a fan of The Beatles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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