"Our heroes following rules that they once disobeyed." - A reflexion about Green Day

[Batgirl]

I became a fan of the band when I was 15, right after American Idiot came out. At the time, I loved bands like MCR, Lostprophets, Yellowcard, The Used..... it was insane. Today, I still have these bands' music on my iPods, but I honestly can't tell you the last time that I didn't skip their songs. It's not because of their image or anything like that, it's simply because I've grown out of them, for lack of a better term. I still respect the bands, they still hold a place in my life. Hell, that was a monumental time for me in music when I first actually got into music.

Everyone also thought I'd grow out of Green Day. Friends look through my iPod and we all laugh at the bands included in there, but with Green Day, this is my fucking band. It doesn't matter what people say about them, I'm still going to love their music regardless. I grew up with little-to-no friends throughout school. Hell, I'm on my college campus now, I never talk to anybody. I'm only social with a select few people. Green Day has been my loyal friend for about 8 years now. I've put their music on when I'm having the worst day of my life, before water polo games in high school to pump me up (usually King For A Day), before going to concerts, when I feel great, when I'm driving....anywhere. Any mood, Green Day is there for me to bring me up, or just cry with me.

So no matter where this band may go with you, just keep in mind that these bands hold a special place in your life, regardless of your age. Come to terms with the fact that you most likely will grow out of a lot of music as you get older. I thought I'd like these bands forever, turns out, I like pretty mature music. I LOATHED Arcade Fire when they were out a few years ago, same with Queens of the Stone Age. Now I love them. It just goes to show that tastes change, but always stay true to yourself. Don't let music define you, don't let a style define you. Don't stick to, "well that's not punk," because, well, not a whole lot IS punk anymore. Green Day's attitun is punk, but I wouldn't say that their music is punk in the grand scheme of things. They have punk-like songs, but overall I wouldn't use the punk label. To me, this band doesn't have a label. They are everything to me. My music tastes outside of this band should signal that I don't like Green Day, but this band will ALWAYS be important to me.

Stop trying to label things. Stop trying to justify everything. Just stick to what you like, who gives a shit what other people think, and just enjoy the music, man.

Ninja Edit: I forgot to address the "selling out." The Black Keys said something recently against claims that they sold out, saying something along the lines of, "this is our job and this is how we make money to live." Look, Green Day is probably set forever if they stop right now. They're having fun and doing what they love. The only way that they can continue to do what they love is to keep the monetary flow. In today's world, the dollar doesn't go as far as it used to, so they have no choice but to do more.

This, ladies and gents is what I'm talking about.

[Pieces of Truth]

As for the ticket prices, when I last saw them they were €40. That's €20 CHEAPER than any comparable band out there. And Ireland is one of the most expensive countries in the world for big concerts. And they always have a monster 30 song setlist. So I'd never complain. You get bang for your buck.

See? This is why I'm kinda butthurt 'bout my show. You hear those awesome 'explosions' in the background of Awesome As Fuck (not that that would matter anyway. but would have been nice to have it). The tickets were cheaper. Set lists longer.

Yes, Green Day's always awesome and this was the best fucking night of my life, no doubt about that, but why not give me at least the same thing for more money? (Sorry. I know I replied to a two hours old post and the convo moved on. But I was busy n shit )

[Todd]

Rule #1: Don't be a dick.

Observation #1: You're being a dick.

I don't see how that was any dickier than everybody else that's pissed off in this thread saying that she should "post her whines and moans somewhere else". I just don't understand how this is still a problem. In 1994 it could've been a problem, but in 2012 we've already established Green Day is a genre of their own, and being "punk" isn't always doing whatever the fuck you want, and not giving two flying fucks. (But it can be)

[Anja]

I like the Rise Against reference in the title

[uhleckseee]

I don't see how that was any dickier than everybody else that's pissed off in this thread saying that she should "post her whines and moans somewhere else". I just don't understand how this is still a problem. In 1994 it could've been a problem, but in 2012 we've already established Green Day is a genre of their own, and being "punk" isn't always doing whatever the fuck you want, and not giving two flying fucks. (But it can be)

I believe the "dick" comment came from you complaining about minuscule things like the spelling of "refelexion." The original post said that English wasn't this person's first language. It's a natural spelling error, English can be really confusing.

(If I'm not mistaken, reflexion, is that of Spanish origin?)

Some people are dicks in this thread. Just don't stoop down to that level, that's all.

[Vespertine]

Why do Green Day fans like to piss off other Green Day fans with this shit? and... "reflexion"....really? Tell me... were you drunk when you wrote this? It takes a lot of effort to rant like that. I see no point in your post

English is not her first language, give her a break.

[Todd]

I believe the "dick" comment came from you complaining about minuscule things like the spelling of "refelexion." The original post said that English wasn't this person's first language. It's a natural spelling error, English can be really confusing.

(If I'm not mistaken, reflexion, is that of Spanish origin?)

Some people are dicks in this thread. Just don't stoop down to that level, that's all.

Oh, okay. I didn't bother to read the whole post cause it was kinda....against my views. Sorry

[Anja]

yeah that just supports my point. they suddenly changed from being a mainstream band left with some credibility to pseudo rockstars. its been 23 songs (thanks for the correction) for 90 dollars in germany this year.

Just a little correction: Tickets were around $75, not $90 if you convert it correctly. Still a huge amount of money though, I have to agree on that.

On a side note, Bruce Springsteen wants 90-102€ for a ticket to his show so that makes GD's ticket price look really low all of a sudden.

[Amanda]

Just a little correction: Tickets were around $75, not $90 if you convert it correctly. Still a huge amount of money though, I have to agree on that.

On a side note, Bruce Springsteen wants 90-102€ for a ticket to his show so that makes GD's ticket price look really low all of a sudden.

The Strolling Bones are playing the o2 in London this week and the cheapest tickets are £95 ($152) and they go up to £950 for hospitality tickets. That is taking the piss.

[Harinezumi]

Let's not complain about tickets. It could be so much worse. They could be selling front row (or "golden circle") tickets for a higher price, like many well-known artists do. It's like they don't even respect the fans anymore. The more money you have, the closer to the band you get. I hope GD never does that.

[Hermione]

Some people need to remember that Green Day's "rules" aren't necessarily the same as their own "rules". They do what they want to do, don't expect them to cater to your views and tastes all the time.

If My Chemical Romance could do that they didn't accept the Twilight contract, Green Day could do it.

You do know Green Day have had their music in terrible movies before right? Literally one of the most awful films of all time, Freddie Got Fingered, for example. As well as American Pie 2 and all kinds of other crap. Sometimes bands have their music in movies. They don't have to love the movie to do that, as long as they don't have some kind of moral objection to it then it's just a good way to promote their music to a wide audience. All Billie did was make a lighthearted joke about Twilight, he didn't say he hated it. YOU might hate it, but that doesn't mean they do. Unlike you or MCR they don't mind their music being in Twilight, so they had no reason to say no.

[yuan]

um.. I mean you never know what the people are really like..but their music/lyrics/efforts and what you do in your life is real.

and from what I see Billie is not bad and super cute to me.

idk, if Billie finished that 1min of song without saying anything, then maybe they are really selling out...

I thought you have to be mainstream enough to be selling out...there is not enough promoting right now, and I think they are pretty private old-school person..

also, IMO billie was tired to be a "hero" and fake a smile to kiss everyone's ass just because they wanna play their music for living..

[iScottie]

I became a fan of the band when I was 15, right after American Idiot came out. At the time, I loved bands like MCR, Lostprophets, Yellowcard, The Used..... it was insane. Today, I still have these bands' music on my iPods, but I honestly can't tell you the last time that I didn't skip their songs. It's not because of their image or anything like that, it's simply because I've grown out of them, for lack of a better term. I still respect the bands, they still hold a place in my life. Hell, that was a monumental time for me in music when I first actually got into music.

Everyone also thought I'd grow out of Green Day. Friends look through my iPod and we all laugh at the bands included in there, but with Green Day, this is my fucking band. It doesn't matter what people say about them, I'm still going to love their music regardless. I grew up with little-to-no friends throughout school. Hell, I'm on my college campus now, I never talk to anybody. I'm only social with a select few people. Green Day has been my loyal friend for about 8 years now. I've put their music on when I'm having the worst day of my life, before water polo games in high school to pump me up (usually King For A Day), before going to concerts, when I feel great, when I'm driving....anywhere. Any mood, Green Day is there for me to bring me up, or just cry with me.

So no matter where this band may go with you, just keep in mind that these bands hold a special place in your life, regardless of your age. Come to terms with the fact that you most likely will grow out of a lot of music as you get older. I thought I'd like these bands forever, turns out, I like pretty mature music. I LOATHED Arcade Fire when they were out a few years ago, same with Queens of the Stone Age. Now I love them. It just goes to show that tastes change, but always stay true to yourself. Don't let music define you, don't let a style define you. Don't stick to, "well that's not punk," because, well, not a whole lot IS punk anymore. Green Day's attitun is punk, but I wouldn't say that their music is punk in the grand scheme of things. They have punk-like songs, but overall I wouldn't use the punk label. To me, this band doesn't have a label. They are everything to me. My music tastes outside of this band should signal that I don't like Green Day, but this band will ALWAYS be important to me.

Stop trying to label things. Stop trying to justify everything. Just stick to what you like, who gives a shit what other people think, and just enjoy the music, man.

Ninja Edit: I forgot to address the "selling out." The Black Keys said something recently against claims that they sold out, saying something along the lines of, "this is our job and this is how we make money to live." Look, Green Day is probably set forever if they stop right now. They're having fun and doing what they love. The only way that they can continue to do what they love is to keep the monetary flow. In today's world, the dollar doesn't go as far as it used to, so they have no choice but to do more.

Amen! You may be my favorite person on these forums

[Hermione]

If you say you want to keep rock&roll alive and stuff, you just don't collaborate with a rap artist and make that song. You fight against that kind of music, not write a song for it.

"Fight against"? Please educate yourself about rap music. The Clash had a rap act opening for them in the early 80s. Blondie experimented with rap. Some of the biggest rock acts of all time have collaborated with rappers. Early rap (and much underground rap now still) came from a very similar place to early punk - raw music made by young, working class people that protested social injustice and was about making their voices heard loudly rather than technical musical skill. The two genres aren't far from each other at all. Some rap acts are more "punk" than many so called punk acts in terms of what they talk about in their lyrics, Public Enemy for example. Lady Cobra herself is in a band that makes punk music as well as experimenting with rap and all kinds of other stuff.

Point is, there's more to rap than the mainstream shit on the radio. If you look for it there's good and bad rap music just like there's good and bad rock music. Green Day have experimented with and had influences from all kinds of different genres before, rap is just another one on the list and there's no reason why they should be closed minded towards it. Just because you're closed minded towards rap, it doesn't mean they should be.

[blitzkriegdeb]

I wanna know where and who wrote the "rules" for punk or rock music in general. Can I buy this handbook at my local Barnes and Noble?

Trying to argue what punk/rock music really is is such a pointless argument because it means something different to everyone. The basis behind the punk movement, as far as I'm concerned, means following your own morals and not changing them to fit someone else's needs. Again, Green Day make the music they want to make, whether they think it'll be commercially accepted or not, and to me, that's pretty fucking punk if I've ever seen it.

And to anyone trying to argue that incorporating rap into ONE song is going against their "punk" morals or whatever, um, hello, have you ever heard of The Transplants? Tim Armstrong's singing with Skinhead Rob who's, shock shock, a rapper. Or even the Beastie Boys, who started out as a punk band.

[Trina]

Here I am.

I've been a Green Day fan for four years now. They were my first rock band, my first passion, my first CD. They've helped me so much. I saw them live for the first time in August and it's been one of the best nights of my life.

Damn, these guys are the only reason I learned the English language. I am now bilingual, all thanks to them. They've given me my own opinions, they're the ones who've shaped my life as it is now and I have so much gratefulness for them.

It's funny how my ideals have changed. How in this new world, the statement "punk rock" is a subject of mockery, pointing out the absurd obsession of staying underground ("oh my gawd you're so punk rock"). If my bands had success, no one would be wondering if they're still "punk" or shit. Everybody would be jumping around hysterically. I feel better, away from this fandom of constant confrontations. It's also closeness to the fans : I've had no problem meeting Lostprophets, who are a fairly successful band, though. Last Train Home and Rooftops, it's them. If I tried to meet Green Day I would fail miserably. It's about Jamie Oliver telling us we're all his friends, not his fans, and us group-hugging him.

It's about that down to earth, I-know-I'm-just-a-human-being mentality. I know it's not Green Day's fault, but it's got a place in my heart. I know. Stupid.

But now let's come to the point.

Green Day's attitude, and particularly Billie Joe's (in fact almost only Billie's, Mike and Tré still have that special place in my heart), has infuriated me.

Oh, it's not about the meltdown. Nor the drugs. As a straight edge person (conviction Lostprophets and Rise Against have given me) I disapprove drug use but it's Billie's own business if he decided to do this to himself.

No, the first, main thing, was his appearance in The Voice. It's not futile. It's not unimportant. They sold Green Day's image, Green Day's music, to the world of pop artists who don't write their songs. To the talent shows, to reality TV. Contradicting everything they said they believed in.

It made me so angry. There's a fine line between being mainstream and not punk and selling the fuck out of your soul. And they've stepped beyond it.

Then there was the Twilight soundtrack. I won't even talk about that one, it explains itself.

There surely have been more things, but I stopped caring about what they did, from there. Their new evolution on music aren't in my likes anymore, too, but I won't blame them on that : they do what they what with the music. Evolution is good. But I won't buy Dos nor Tré. It's really their attitude, this thing I thought they would never do, going to try and buy fans away.

It just keeps being worse and worse and it makes me so upset. So I'm moving on. Most of my Green Day posters are going down, except the Dookie one, the one I've got memories with. I still listen to their records, sure, they've been such an inspiration before. But I'm out now. All tis is too hypocritical for me. Billie Joe's constant rambling about working class, when the shirts' fabrication have been taken to Asia. Yep, hypocritical.

If anyone feels this way about Green Day's new behaviour... speak up. I know I'm not alone, since I met one of my best friends over another band and she used to be a gigantic GD fan like me and has been so upset by their attitude she's done the same things as me.

I don't know. Feel free to do whatever with this topic. A debate, I guess. I've looked up the section and found nothing about that. So yeah.

Okay so apparently you've deleted and edited parts of your post so I can only reply to what's now left. Seems like a pretty cowardly move or maybe you're not so certain after all in your self important views so maybe you should think about things a bit more before opening(typing from?) your mouth?

They've given you your opinions? Well maybe seeing as you find them hypocritical among other things now you will learn you should never take on someone's opinion as your own.

I'm not sure why you're talking about this "new world" and how views on punk have changed. You're 15. You don't seem to have a good grasp on punk. Punk can and has always had serious undertones but it's always been light-hearted and full of depreciation - self and otherwise. It's really not that big a deal if it's mocked. The general public definitely had much much worse views on punk and punks back when it started. They were seen as a threat. These young kids were treated like criminal scum. Trust me the view on punk now is no big deal. If it hurts your ego that it's made fun of then you need to look at things in a wider context. It really doesn't matter. Why should success automatically make someone wonder if something is still punk? If you feel better away from this fandom then why don't you stay away? I don't understand why when people have a problem so bad with a band or a fandom they insist on staying around. I don't know a huge amount about the Lostprophets but one thing that's crystal clear to me is that they are a commercial band who purposely makes commercial music as well as commercial decisions. If you can't see that you're very naive. Green Day is a commercial band who have made decisions with commercial benefit but the difference is most if not all of those decisions were not made firstly or purely for the commercial side of things. The biggest difference is they do NOT make music for commercial reasons. Never have, never will. Simple as that. If you disagree, you have a big misunderstanding of what Green Day is about.

Lostprophets and Green Day are not comparable about meeting fans. Green Day is far far bigger. Lostprophets and other bands like them know they have to maintan good fan-band relations or they will fade fast (faster than they already are). Green Day doesn't rely on that. Many many fans have met Green Day. It's a case of Green Day being far more popular, with far more fans in way more places compared to LP. I'm sorry but you're very naive to think this Jamie Oliver thinks of his fans as friends. He doesn't. To me, I much prefer the way Green Day interact with their fans. It's much more authentic and makes what they do and say much more sincere to me. If Green Day constantly went on, "Oh we love our fans, they're our friends" I would find it hard to believe it when they did sincere acts of kindness (which they often do). When artists insincerely flatter their fans, you have to realise it's a marketing ploy. Doling out hugs for record sales. Hoping they'll stay a fan that bit longer. I have seen, heard about and enjoyed immense kindness and love from Green Day so many times. They are extremely down to earth and have been very warm and most importantly honest and sincere with so many fans. They don't owe us anything. I'm so glad how real they keep it. Do you really want them to feign emotion to faceless fans? Do you see the way they fucking give it their all up on stage? Playing their fucking hearts out? They're showing the crowd a lotta love there. I'd much rather that than when some lame interviewer asks if they want to say anything to their fans they give a forced "Oh we love you guys...". I think it's downright ignorant for you to try and say they need to act more loving or friendly to their fans. They have given us SO much. More than I've seen anyone else give, ever. If you're so supposedly grateful maybe you'd want to review this and realise what they've given you is much more important than some half-hearted words. Come on dude...you really believe that Jamie Oliver guy actually thinks of you as friends? Green Day are extremely down to earth. You really don't know this band as well as you believe.

You go on about Billie Joe's attitude but you haven't listed one fucking thing about it? What is wrong with his attitude exactly? What about his attitude is bothering you? For you to be infuriated over some marketing is pretty self-important. If it's not about the "meltdown" or the drugs why mention it? Why say you're straight edge? What relation does it have to the rest of your post? You must have some sort of hang up about Billie's substance abuse so. Which coming from a "straight-edge" 15 year old is pretty ignorant. I say this as someone who could be considered straight edge themselves, you have NO place in judging other's addictions, vices or self-medicating. You don't know this man or what he's been thru. Addiction is a serious fucking thing and not a choice. Think before you judge someone or disapprove of how they cope. Have some compassion man. Take these band memebers down of the pedestals and view them as human beings with their own lives and difficulties. It's not all about you and your self important views! Do you really think Billie wanted this to happen? Do you really think he as a father and husband wants to have addiction issues? Cop on. It's pretty common for people with panic disorders to self medicate. No-one wants to be an addict but it only takes so much to become one. Don't act like he wants this or he should be looked down on for this. I'm sure he already feels guilty enough. Put your feet in others shoes before you feel heroic for not having had to self medicate with drink or drugs. Your convictions, like your opinions, shouldn't come from bands. Your convictions should come from within you and from YOUR life experience, of which you must have very little. Fuck, I hope you find some maturity and open your mind a bit with age but it doesn't always happen unfortunately.

The way I see The Voice and Twilight things is they just thought, why the fuck not. It's not as important as you seem to think it is. They still have their convictions, their morals, which unlike you they didn't take solely from a band or a scene. Billie watches The Voice with his wife. He watches TV like the rest of us do, y'know? He was approached to be on it and he probably thought why not, why not push my and others comfort levels? Is he, giving advice and mentoring some artists really such a problem? Do you not think he's learned some things over the years and it's cool he can share that. With Twilight, look, Green Day's music deserves to be heard. It should be heard. Green Day deserves for people to hear their music and people deserve to be able to hear Gd's music. At the end of the day it's just a way to get their music out there. Twilight is primarily for young people, Green Day are 40 year old men, of course they're not going to like it. But who the fuck cares if some kids do? It's just a movie alright. And if that kid finds this amazing band from watching their movie, great! It's as simple as that. Billie Joe may be Green Day but Green Day isn't Billie Joe. Billie Joe appearing on the Voice doesn't have to all be about GD. He's an experienced and successful singer, songwriter and guitarist whose weathered many years in the industry. You don't have a right to say GD have contradicted everything they believe in. You don't even know their beliefs. You seem to have a pretty poor understanding of them anyways. Appearing on a silly tv show isn't the end of the world, it's not a one way ticket to that place in hell reserved for sell-outs. You seriously need to take a step back here. Why the fuck are you angry about it? If they made choices solely based on what their fans wanted then THAT would be selling out. Instead they're doing what THEY want. It's their life, their band, their choices. You don't get to dictate to them how to behave. There isn't a fine line between being mainstream and punk or selling-out. I really disagree with that. If Green Day's choices are okay to them, if they feel comfortable then why should it matter? As long as they feel okay with it then that means they're doing what they want. They owe us nothing and I really don't think you're opinion as a self-important kid matters to them as 40 year old men who grew up in the punk scene, lived and breathed it. Punk is a big part of their identity. It's who they are, it's where they come from. No-one or nothing can take that away. You don't understand. If you don't care about what they do now why don't you move on? I don't mean that passive-aggressively. I genuinely wonder why you wont just move on if you feel they've violated your morals (which you took from them anyways?!)?! Green Day have appeared on tv many times and their songs have been on many soundtracks. Just because it's the "in" thing to diss Twilight and talent shows right now doesn't mean they should base what they do off of that. They constantly break down barriers and I admire them for that. Besides, Mike's daughter apparently likes Twilight. You gotta realise they as 40 year old parents and husbands have more important battles to fight. If they want to put have their song be on a soundtrack of a movie one of their kids likes, why wouldn't they. There are bigger injustices in the world than Twilight, chill.

I'm sorry but what the hell are you talking about their evolutions in music for? A band should always evolve. Otherwise they're nothing. They're stuck in time. They lose importance. You've only been a fan since 2008 or something? You haven't even seen their evolution. Their major evolution was Warning through to 21stCB. UDT are just fun records referencing music before their time, from their own career, all the way up untill current day stuff. UDT isn't a big evolution for them, at least musically so what you're saying doesn't make sense. Why do you think it matters to us or them if you don't buy Dos or Tre? That's your choice. It's not important to anyone else. Again, why mention the attitude if you haven't said one thing about it that bothers you? Green Day aren't trying to buy fans. If you had followed this UDT "evolution" properly you would realise they're just trying to have fun, be less serious. This era is meant to be all about Why Not. Why the fuck not man? If they've done stuff you thought they never would have done you can't blame them, you have to blame yourself for misunderstanding them in the first place. If 40 year old men were particularly bothered by something as insignificant as a tv show or a movie, it'd be pretty pathetic, no? You have to realise the whole talent show hate and Twilight hate is just a trend for the immature non-thinkers. It's really not that far from being a fan of these things actually! If you don't like it, don't listen or watch. Simple.

Move on then. Again, why would anyone else care you're taking down your GD posters? Lol... I mean, you gotta grow up and realise there's a whole world out there outside Green Day, Twilight and The Voice. Man you weren't even born when Dookie came out? You seem to be wishing things were back to how they were in '94 but you didn't exist then. You didn't become a fan of them for who they were in '94, you became a fan of them not so long ago. Things really haven't changed much since then, I promise. How have they been hypocritical, tell me one fucking thing. You call them hypocrites yet have no proof. How dare you try and take away Billie Joe's identity and life as the working class. You quite obviously have no understanding of him or where he comes from. Working class people have more to worry about than Twilight, let me tell you that! You can never take being working class away from someone. It stays with you forever. To me, Green Day being working class is their MOST defining feature. It influences so much of them and their band. He seemed unaware the manufacturing of some merch had been moved to Asia. Maybe it had to be to try and make up for some of the financial loss of both the AI and 21stCB tours. Yep, that's right, they lost money on those tours. I imagine it has something to do with paying their crew right and treating 'em right. You can't win everything buddy. It's just not possible. They can only do their best. You may think it's hypocritical but then so are the working class who can't afford to buy local and is that true, fuck no.

I haven't read this whole thread but apparently you bitched them out for wearing eyeliner? They've worn eyeliner for their whole career. Before AI, bands in the mainstream weren't wearing eyeliner anyways so I don't get your point. A trend came from them, they weren't partaking in it. I love that they sometimes choose to wear make-up. It shows confidence in themselves and their sexuality, it challenges people's thoughts and pushes boundaries. The decision to wear eyeliner has probably cost them more fans than benefited them. What about your beloved Lostprophets? They seemed to change their image drastically, including wearing eyeliner and dying + straightening their hair, funnily enough after Green Day became successful wearing that look!

Grow up kid. Lose the self importance. Realise Green Day owe you nothing. Harsh but true.

[fatherotti]

Okay so apparently you've deleted and edited parts of your post so I can only reply to what's now left. Seems like a pretty cowardly move or maybe you're not so certain after all in your self important views so maybe you should think about things a bit more before opening(typing from?) your mouth?

They've given you your opinions? Well maybe seeing as you find them hypocritical among other things now you will learn you should never take on someone's opinion as your own.

I'm not sure why you're talking about this "new world" and how views on punk have changed. You're 15. You don't seem to have a good grasp on punk. Punk can and has always had serious undertones but it's always been light-hearted and full of depreciation - self and otherwise. It's really not that big a deal if it's mocked. The general public definitely had much much worse views on punk and punks back when it started. They were seen as a threat. These young kids were treated like criminal scum. Trust me the view on punk now is no big deal. If it hurts your ego that it's made fun of then you need to look at things in a wider context. It really doesn't matter. Why should success automatically make someone wonder if something is still punk? If you feel better away from this fandom then why don't you stay away? I don't understand why when people have a problem so bad with a band or a fandom they insist on staying around. I don't know a huge amount about the Lostprophets but one thing that's crystal clear to me is that they are a commercial band who purposely makes commercial music as well as commercial decisions. If you can't see that you're very naive. Green Day is a commercial band who have made decisions with commercial benefit but the difference is most if not all of those decisions were not made firstly or purely for the commercial side of things. The biggest difference is they do NOT make music for commercial reasons. Never have, never will. Simple as that. If you disagree, you have a big misunderstanding of what Green Day is about.

Lostprophets and Green Day are not comparable about meeting fans. Green Day is far far bigger. Lostprophets and other bands like them know they have to maintan good fan-band relations or they will fade fast (faster than they already are). Green Day doesn't rely on that. Many many fans have met Green Day. It's a case of Green Day being far more popular, with far more fans in way more places compared to LP. I'm sorry but you're very naive to think this Jamie Oliver thinks of his fans as friends. He doesn't. To me, I much prefer the way Green Day interact with their fans. It's much more authentic and makes what they do and say much more sincere to me. If Green Day constantly went on, "Oh we love our fans, they're our friends" I would find it hard to believe it when they did sincere acts of kindness (which they often do). When artists insincerely flatter their fans, you have to realise it's a marketing ploy. Doling out hugs for record sales. Hoping they'll stay a fan that bit longer. I have seen, heard about and enjoyed immense kindness and love from Green Day so many times. They are extremely down to earth and have been very warm and most importantly honest and sincere with so many fans. They don't owe us anything. I'm so glad how real they keep it. Do you really want them to feign emotion to faceless fans? Do you see the way they fucking give it their all up on stage? Playing their fucking hearts out? They're showing the crowd a lotta love there. I'd much rather that than when some lame interviewer asks if they want to say anything to their fans they give a forced "Oh we love you guys...". I think it's downright ignorant for you to try and say they need to act more loving or friendly to their fans. They have given us SO much. More than I've seen anyone else give, ever. If you're so supposedly grateful maybe you'd want to review this and realise what they've given you is much more important than some half-hearted words. Come on dude...you really believe that Jamie Oliver guy actually thinks of you as friends? Green Day are extremely down to earth. You really don't know this band as well as you believe.

You go on about Billie Joe's attitude but you haven't listed one fucking thing about it? What is wrong with his attitude exactly? What about his attitude is bothering you? For you to be infuriated over some marketing is pretty self-important. If it's not about the "meltdown" or the drugs why mention it? Why say you're straight edge? What relation does it have to the rest of your post? You must have some sort of hang up about Billie's substance abuse so. Which coming from a "straight-edge" 15 year old is pretty ignorant. I say this as someone who could be considered straight edge themselves, you have NO place in judging other's addictions, vices or self-medicating. You don't know this man or what he's been thru. Addiction is a serious fucking thing and not a choice. Think before you judge someone or disapprove of how they cope. Have some compassion man. Take these band memebers down of the pedestals and view them as human beings with their own lives and difficulties. It's not all about you and your self important views! Do you really think Billie wanted this to happen? Do you really think he as a father and husband wants to have addiction issues? Cop on. It's pretty common for people with panic disorders to self medicate. No-one wants to be an addict but it only takes so much to become one. Don't act like he wants this or he should be looked down on for this. I'm sure he already feels guilty enough. Put your feet in others shoes before you feel heroic for not having had to self medicate with drink or drugs. Your convictions, like your opinions, shouldn't come from bands. Your convictions should come from within you and from YOUR life experience, of which you must have very little. Fuck, I hope you find some maturity and open your mind a bit with age but it doesn't always happen unfortunately.

The way I see The Voice and Twilight things is they just thought, why the fuck not. It's not as important as you seem to think it is. They still have their convictions, their morals, which unlike you they didn't take solely from a band or a scene. Billie watches The Voice with his wife. He watches TV like the rest of us do, y'know? He was approached to be on it and he probably thought why not, why not push my and others comfort levels? Is he, giving advice and mentoring some artists really such a problem? Do you not think he's learned some things over the years and it's cool he can share that. With Twilight, look, Green Day's music deserves to be heard. It should be heard. Green Day deserves for people to hear their music and people deserve to be able to hear Gd's music. At the end of the day it's just a way to get their music out there. Twilight is primarily for young people, Green Day are 40 year old men, of course they're not going to like it. But who the fuck cares if some kids do? It's just a movie alright. And if that kid finds this amazing band from watching their movie, great! It's as simple as that. Billie Joe may be Green Day but Green Day isn't Billie Joe. Billie Joe appearing on the Voice doesn't have to all be about GD. He's an experienced and successful singer, songwriter and guitarist whose weathered many years in the industry. You don't have a right to say GD have contradicted everything they believe in. You don't even know their beliefs. You seem to have a pretty poor understanding of them anyways. Appearing on a silly tv show isn't the end of the world, it's not a one way ticket to that place in hell reserved for sell-outs. You seriously need to take a step back here. Why the fuck are you angry about it? If they made choices solely based on what their fans wanted then THAT would be selling out. Instead they're doing what THEY want. It's their life, their band, their choices. You don't get to dictate to them how to behave. There isn't a fine line between being mainstream and punk or selling-out. I really disagree with that. If Green Day's choices are okay to them, if they feel comfortable then why should it matter? As long as they feel okay with it then that means they're doing what they want. They owe us nothing and I really don't think you're opinion as a self-important kid matters to them as 40 year old men who grew up in the punk scene, lived and breathed it. Punk is a big part of their identity. It's who they are, it's where they come from. No-one or nothing can take that away. You don't understand. If you don't care about what they do now why don't you move on? I don't mean that passive-aggressively. I genuinely wonder why you wont just move on if you feel they've violated your morals (which you took from them anyways?!)?! Green Day have appeared on tv many times and their songs have been on many soundtracks. Just because it's the "in" thing to diss Twilight and talent shows right now doesn't mean they should base what they do off of that. They constantly break down barriers and I admire them for that. Besides, Mike's daughter apparently likes Twilight. You gotta realise they as 40 year old parents and husbands have more important battles to fight. If they want to put have their song be on a soundtrack of a movie one of their kids likes, why wouldn't they. There are bigger injustices in the world than Twilight, chill.

I'm sorry but what the hell are you talking about their evolutions in music for? A band should always evolve. Otherwise they're nothing. They're stuck in time. They lose importance. You've only been a fan since 2008 or something? You haven't even seen their evolution. Their major evolution was Warning through to 21stCB. UDT are just fun records referencing music before their time, from their own career, all the way up untill current day stuff. UDT isn't a big evolution for them, at least musically so what you're saying doesn't make sense. Why do you think it matters to us or them if you don't buy Dos or Tre? That's your choice. It's not important to anyone else. Again, why mention the attitude if you haven't said one thing about it that bothers you? Green Day aren't trying to buy fans. If you had followed this UDT "evolution" properly you would realise they're just trying to have fun, be less serious. This era is meant to be all about Why Not. Why the fuck not man? If they've done stuff you thought they never would have done you can't blame them, you have to blame yourself for misunderstanding them in the first place. If 40 year old men were particularly bothered by something as insignificant as a tv show or a movie, it'd be pretty pathetic, no? You have to realise the whole talent show hate and Twilight hate is just a trend for the immature non-thinkers. It's really not that far from being a fan of these things actually! If you don't like it, don't listen or watch. Simple.

Move on then. Again, why would anyone else care you're taking down your GD posters? Lol... I mean, you gotta grow up and realise there's a whole world out there outside Green Day, Twilight and The Voice. Man you weren't even born when Dookie came out? You seem to be wishing things were back to how they were in '94 but you didn't exist then. You didn't become a fan of them for who they were in '94, you became a fan of them not so long ago. Things really haven't changed much since then, I promise. How have they been hypocritical, tell me one fucking thing. You call them hypocrites yet have no proof. How dare you try and take away Billie Joe's identity and life as the working class. You quite obviously have no understanding of him or where he comes from. Working class people have more to worry about than Twilight, let me tell you that! You can never take being working class away from someone. It stays with you forever. To me, Green Day being working class is their MOST defining feature. It influences so much of them and their band. He seemed unaware the manufacturing of some merch had been moved to Asia. Maybe it had to be to try and make up for some of the financial loss of both the AI and 21stCB tours. Yep, that's right, they lost money on those tours. I imagine it has something to do with paying their crew right and treating 'em right. You can't win everything buddy. It's just not possible. They can only do their best. You may think it's hypocritical but then so are the working class who can't afford to buy local and is that true, fuck no.

I haven't read this whole thread but apparently you bitched them out for wearing eyeliner? They've worn eyeliner for their whole career. Before AI, bands in the mainstream weren't wearing eyeliner anyways so I don't get your point. A trend came from them, they weren't partaking in it. I love that they sometimes choose to wear make-up. It shows confidence in themselves and their sexuality, it challenges people's thoughts and pushes boundaries. The decision to wear eyeliner has probably cost them more fans than benefited them. What about your beloved Lostprophets? They seemed to change their image drastically, including wearing eyeliner and dying + straightening their hair, funnily enough after Green Day became successful wearing that look!

Grow up kid. Lose the self importance. Realise Green Day owe you nothing. Harsh but true.

1++++++++++++++++++++

[DannyDirnt]

Definitely you should stop complaining about them selling out when they aren't and just listen to the music you like. You went to their concert and had a really great time, but you won't buy their albums because Billie appeared in the Voice and one of their songs is on Twilight? I think that's pretty much stopping yourself from liking their albums because they aren't doing what you want them to.

[deadair]

Sounds like this is more of an opinion piece than a useful legit thread. But I have to ask is the quoted title an intentional reference to Rise Against, and their song Architects?

[DTH]

This, ladies and gents is what I'm talking about.

unfortunaly totaly missing the point. quite amusing how you argumenting against opinions that weren't stated.

Just a little correction: Tickets were around $75, not $90 if you convert it correctly. Still a huge amount of money though, I have to agree on that.

On a side note, Bruce Springsteen wants 90-102€ for a ticket to his show so that makes GD's ticket price look really low all of a sudden.

we are not talking about bruce springsteen, we are talking about green day. of the past and of the present. and besides that, springsteen plays a 4 hours set.

[DTH]

I wanna know where and who wrote the "rules" for punk or rock music in general. Can I buy this handbook at my local Barnes and Noble?

Trying to argue what punk/rock music really is is such a pointless argument because it means something different to everyone. The basis behind the punk movement, as far as I'm concerned, means following your own morals and not changing them to fit someone else's needs. Again, Green Day make the music they want to make, whether they think it'll be commercially accepted or not, and to me, that's pretty fucking punk if I've ever seen it.

And to anyone trying to argue that incorporating rap into ONE song is going against their "punk" morals or whatever, um, hello, have you ever heard of The Transplants? Tim Armstrong's singing with Skinhead Rob who's, shock shock, a rapper. Or even the Beastie Boys, who started out as a punk band.

being fair to fans and not to press any penny out of them has nothing to do with punk. i'm not punk, green day is not punk. it's just a normal moral question. the only people keep mentioning fucking punk every time are those who keep defending green day. and that shows how week your arumentation is. i am using my mind and state my opinion from what I think is appropiate to do, not what some vague youth culture was once about.

all people defending green day in here kepp reffering to punk, what green day says, what other people do and try to justify every behaviour with that. that is the same argumentation structure that fundamentalist religious people like to use. not hold on to what you self think its right, keep refferring what other people do and say.

and there are bands (like the one in my nickname: die toten hosen) sell tickets for 40 euro, while they could sell them easily for the double amount (look at ebay, tickets going off for 130 euros). they sell fair trade t-shirts. they support oxfam on their tour. they sold a double album for the prize of one. and they are the biggest band in germany. and thats the reason why they can do it. because they are fucking big. a newcoomer band coulnt afford to do all this. but green day can, they are one of the biggest bands in the world.

and then its even more diappointing if a band is preaching water and drinking whine like green day. do not act like you keep prizes low. you don't. don't say you are leftwing when you try to make as much money as possible.

it has nothing to do with the music. i think green day will always will make the music they like the most and don't do what other people want of them. its about the distribution of your music. make it possible for normal people to go to your shows. not to promote your music without holding on to any principles. not to be a fucking profit maxamizing concern.

[Gregorovich]

See, this is why we must abandon the confines of our emotions and seek holy refuge in cold reason.

[PursuitOfEpicness]

I don't care about any of the things they did to promote their albums. To me it just seems like Green Day's like "Oh you want to put us in Twilight?" "whatever, that's cool!". "You want to give us our own Angry Birds game?" "Alright man, whatever floats your boat". Which may seem different than their personalities before considering they used to be extremely picky about everything, but it's worse to be a band that turns everything and everyone down just to be "cool" and keep their persona. Like I'm a huge Radiohead fan but seriously, Thom Yorke has a big ego i don't care what anyone says. He completely rejected Miley Cyrus just asking for an autograph, and yeah no likes her at all but he did it to be rude and was completely obnoxious about it. I can't see Billie Joe doing that to someone even if it was "fucking justin beiber!" Now i know if that happened a bunch of Green Day fans would be like "ew you sold out just giving Justin Beiber an autograph". It's a far stretch but it's the same thing with the Voice and Christina Aguliera (however you spell it), really. She's definitely not a popular person in the Green Day community and Billie is not stupid he knows that. But instead of being a jerk and saying "no i'm going to have to pass" just because he thinks he's too punk or thinks he would sell out would be worse than being flattered and humble about it all. I guess what i'm trying to say is, i can completely see the way you're viewing this but these points are not valid to me. They're all a matter of how laid back and humble Billie really is to be flattered enough to do these things (which genuinely seems true).

The only way i really thought they sold out was having all these provocative women in their "Oh Love" video and basically just making all these trilogy albums about sex and drugs which is what they have said they weren't really about anymore. I mean it's green day i'm used to their music meaning something. But even then i looked deep in the reflection of the songs and found meaning and realized it's all in good fun.

And he could always be like Johnny Rotten thinking he's still the coolest, punkest thing around hating on everyone when punk's about not judging others! Until Billie cheats on his wife, starts a boy-band, and treats mike and tre like a jerk, i will never say he's a sell-out.

[burnout409]

This thread =

[stories and songs]

If your a fan of anyone for a long time, there will be times when you are unhappy with something they do or say. It just kind of goes with sticking with a person or a band for the long haul. You can disagree with how they choose to promote their albums and still be a fan. In fact, if a fan agrees with everything that a band or celebrity does, I kind of question if they truly love the band or if they're just temporarily infatuated.

Though stuff like Twilight and The Voice didn't really bother me because I'm sure that the band has obligations to Warner that come with putting out a trilogy, I do understand where the OP is coming from. That said, I don't believe that the band does things soley in the name of making money. Of course the want to get their music out their and play shows, but I most certainly do not think that the driving force behind that is money.