BlackBaboon Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 Who cares how well an album sales? Are you working for Green Day or Warner Music Group to where the sales personally affects you? What the only matters for fans should be is Did you enjoy the album? How did the album affect you? Not "this album only sold 12 copies so it's not good" That's not really what the discussion is about though. I was just trying to justify my assertion that the records contain a great deal of filler and that they feel slapped together. Everyone else said that was only my opinion and dismissed it so I've been trying to defend myself using album sales as an example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Femme Gauche Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 That's not really what the discussion is about though. I was just trying to justify my assertion that the records contain a great deal of filler and that they feel slapped together. Everyone else said that was only my opinion and dismissed it so I've been trying to defend myself using album sales as an example. For it to be filler would mean that the band did not feel strongly about the songs. I just don't agree that that's likely to have been the case. The fact that they are a lot of enjoyable tracks, that the fans really like, points strongly in the opposite direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackBaboon Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 There's nothing to justify. Numbers aren't the same as quality, period. Generally, for mainstream bands, and especially Green Day, the favorites, do sell the best and they sell well over a period of time. Dookie Insomniac and American Idiot are the three best selling albums in Green Day's catalog and they are also, generally, the most beloved. Last year the Lonely Island's album sold as well or better than Dos will in its debut week. If this album were really beloved, it would beat the Lonely Island. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteTim Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 That's not really what the discussion is about though. I was just trying to justify my assertion that the records contain a great deal of filler and that they feel slapped together. Everyone else said that was only my opinion and dismissed it so I've been trying to defend myself using album sales as an example. But you can't use sales with quality Vanilla Ice has sold over 15 million records with 2 The Extreme and while I love jamming Ice Ice Baby and rappin the words out loud (guilty pleasure shut up...) you wouldn't ever convince me it's a quality album... You don't like the trilogy that's cool you're entitled to that opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Femme Gauche Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 Generally, for mainstream bands, and especially Green Day, the favorites, do sell the best and they sell well over a period of time. Dookie Insomniac and American Idiot are the three best selling albums in Green Day's catalog and they are also, generally, the most beloved. Last year the Lonely Island's album sold as well or better than Dos will in its debut week. If this album were really beloved, it would beat the Lonely Island. Beloved by fans still isn't the same thing as being loved by the band. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Android Jesus Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 I loved it, in latinamerica most of the countries only have the censored version, but it's still damn good!!! i don't know which one is my favorite yet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hero_Of_The_Hour Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 It's interesting that part of the discussion going on in this thread also revolves around how much say Green Day has regarding their music and the answer seems to be- a lot. With that in mind, what often happens to people given that much praise and liberty is what we're seeing here. They overestimate themselves, gamble, and lose. The records are not selling. Uno had pretty poor numbers for a major label commercial band, especially in comparison to other Green Day records. It spawned one very moderate radio hit. Every other album up until Uno released on Reprise had at least one hit single and often times more. Not really true of Oh Love! I haven't heard Stray Heart anywhere and it seems that people were so disappointed with Uno that they've decided to boycott Dos. When I hear about how quickly Billie recorded the vocals I feel a little cheated. There are quite a few flimsy lines and he's even off key at the end of Amy. Am I supposed to be impressed that he sang the album so fast that he made mistakes? The lyrics for Uno and some of Dos read like they were stolen from a middle school journal. What I think we've seen over the past few months is Billie getting too big for even himself. He was in a successful Broadway musical and did very well. He's had numerous platinum albums and at least one diamond. He's had too many hit singles to count. It was probably hard for him not to explode like he did at iHeart during band rehearsal. The rant from iHeart was nothing more than entitlement. He felt entitled to success, entitled to applause, entitled to praise, entitled to whatever and it just didn't work anymore. You're right, it's not a perfect system, but I think it does show the strength of even the 'filler' songs on albums like Dookie and Insomniac. Just about all of those songs had something to say, like they would grab you by the shoulders and shake you on a street corner and just scream, "Hey, listen up, I've gotta get this off my chest!" Does Fuck Time really do that for people? Does anyone know what Stop When the Red Lights Flash is even about? Is Makeout Party just laced with meaning? Sure these songs have a point, Fuck time is about Fuck time, Makeout Party is about a Makeout Party and Stop When the Red Lights Flash is probably also about fucking with maybe a few seamy prostitute references thrown in for good measure, but it doesn't feel genuine. I would be embarrassed to hear a twenty year old say 'It's fuck time' much less a forty year old. Or maybe I'm just passed the point in my life where the "F" word is rebellious and humorous by nature. Ok...the fuck?! Firstly are you suggesting that Green Day have too much "liberty" and control over their OWN music?! And aparantly THAT is why they "arent selling"?! Lmao...you are a riot...you do realise they released two independent records before Dookie right? And they have had the same "liberty" with all their records as these ones. Perhaps they arent selling to your standards because it isnt 1994 (when punk/grunge scene was THE biggest scene in music) or 2004 when Linkin Park and My Chemical Romance would take every MTV award and nobody had even heard of Katy Perry/Bieber/Rhianna. Trends...music trends...Insomniac is a gem, Nimrod is a gem yet they fell foul of the trends of the time...destined to be overlooked. American Idiot is brilliant but it isnt massive just because its a great album...it is massive because of timing. The trilogy doesnt stand a chance when it has to be played alongside the current music trends. Green Days music however does not rely on fickle trends to survive. Promotion never hurts either though its rather hard to do when the lead singer is in rehab. Despite this their album sales arent too terribly affected (i mean seriously noone knows Dos even exists!). Those of us who do for the record seem pretty damn fond of it (i dont know where your boycotters are from?!). Do I love all the songs? No. Do i love all the songs on any GD album? No. Do i love most? Yes. Are some lyrics non-inspiring eg Makeout Party? Yes. Did i feel the same about songs on all other GD albums eg Christians Inferno, Know Your Enemy etc? Duh yes. As for SWTRLF i think that song is pretty easy to decipher and just as meaningful as anything off Dookie. As for your comment about Billie being too accomplished in various fields and therefore thinking he can do what he wants/record vocals sloppily or whatever...just wow. The idea of the sound of all three albums as explained in numerous interviews was a "live sound"...hence slight imperfections, more raw sound to the vocals and even a hey ho in Stay The Night. Its hillariously ironic that before Uno came out fsns bitched about 21c Breakdown and how his vocals sounded too polished. Billie and GD have achieved LOTS in their careers but never shown a hint of ego and their passion for music is what drives them forward. Suggesting they threw these albums out for the hell if it without quadrouple checking/overanalysing every detail suggests you havent paid attention to the perfectionists these guys are. Finally your absolutely sickening comment about Billies "rant" barely deserves a response. The guy is in rehab. Mike has said his life is in danger. Rob Cavallo even felt the need to inform idiots who aparantly dont understand the meaning of substance abuse that his rehab was no joke. Billie has according to Mike had issues for some time and that night at the festival what we watched was an addict finally breaking down right in front of the world...for 99% of non idiots that was heartwrenching to watch. For the other 1% yeah...it was a guy with a bloated ego who feels entitled and just decided to tell everyone who he fucking is and fucking who he fucking isnt...just like you do when you feel entitled...right after you expose youself, swear excessively (even for someone who loves to), make a fool of yourself trying to lure people onstage to dance and of course sound like shit throughout your set...because you are entitled. Sometimes i wonder how stupid people can really be... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vespertine Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 The fans on here do seem fairly pleased, but even if everyone on here bought a Green Day album, I don't think it would amount to much in the way of sales. I'm talking more about the casual listeners. As I said, even though I disliked Uno quite a bit, I still bought Dos because I enjoy Green Day historically and I want to help the band out regardless. Casual listeners don't feel that way and I think we're seeing that now. I believe Uno is actually doing pretty well, considering the fact that it's essentially a pop-punk album, and that it was released in a time where most popular artists/bands/groups come from an electro/pop background Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cob Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 But you can't use sales with quality Vanilla Ice has sold over 15 million records with 2 The Extreme and while I love jamming Ice Ice Baby and rappin the words out loud (guilty pleasure shut up...) you wouldn't ever convince me it's a quality album... You don't like the trilogy that's cool you're entitled to that opinion. STOP collaborate and listen Ice is back with a brand new invention something, to hold me tightly Flowin' like a harpoon daily and nightly Will I ever stop, yo? I don't know Turn of the lights, and I'll glow To the extreme I rock the mic like a vandal light up the stage I wax a chump like a candle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Femme Gauche Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 I keep getting "Baby Eyes", "Lady Cobra", "Lazy Bones", and "Amy" stuck in my head <3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackBaboon Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 But you can't use sales with quality Vanilla Ice has sold over 15 million records with 2 The Extreme and while I love jamming Ice Ice Baby and rappin the words out loud (guilty pleasure shut up...) you wouldn't ever convince me it's a quality album... You don't like the trilogy that's cool you're entitled to that opinion. But you can. Just compare it to other green day albums. Do you really believe American idiot adjusted would sell 60000 it's first week? Look at other groups selling like that. When you look at green days present company it isn't pretty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vespertine Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 I keep getting "Baby Eyes", "Lady Cobra", "Lazy Bones", and "Amy" stuck in my head <3. Baby Eyes is actually one of my favorite Green Day songs all-time. I'm not even kidding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Femme Gauche Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 But you can. Just compare it to other green day albums. Do you really believe American idiot adjusted would sell 60000 it's first week? Look at other groups selling like that. When you look at green days present company it isn't pretty If you adjust for overall album sales today, if you adjust for the styles of music which were popular then vs now, if you adjust for the present lack of promotion, and the overall lack of expectation that people had when American Idiot came out (because they hadn't been in the limelight for quite some time)... I'd say it's a pretty fair adjustment, actually. Baby Eyes is actually one of my favorite Green Day songs all-time. I'm not even kidding. It's pretty classic punk IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteTim Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 But you can. Just compare it to other green day albums. Do you really believe American idiot adjusted would sell 60000 it's first week? Look at other groups selling like that. When you look at green days present company it isn't pretty If AI came out last week with the singer in rehab and label had halted promo yes it would sell low... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackBaboon Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 Ok...the fuck?! Firstly are you suggesting that Green Day have too much "liberty" and control over their OWN music?! And aparantly THAT is why they "arent selling"?! Lmao...you are a riot...you do realise they released two independent records before Dookie right? And they have had the same "liberty" with all their records as these ones. Perhaps they arent selling to your standards because it isnt 1994 (when punk/grunge scene was THE biggest scene in music) or 2004 when Linkin Park and My Chemical Romance would take every MTV award and nobody had even heard of Katy Perry/Bieber/Rhianna. Trends...music trends...Insomniac is a gem, Nimrod is a gem yet they fell foul of the trends of the time...destined to be overlooked. American Idiot is brilliant but it isnt massive just because its a great album...it is massive because of timing. The trilogy doesnt stand a chance when it has to be played alongside the current music trends. Green Days music however does not rely on fickle trends to survive. Promotion never hurts either though its rather hard to do when the lead singer is in rehab. Despite this their album sales arent too terribly affected (i mean seriously noone knows Dos even exists!). Those of us who do for the record seem pretty damn fond of it (i dont know where your boycotters are from?!). Do I love all the songs? No. Do i love all the songs on any GD album? No. Do i love most? Yes. Are some lyrics non-inspiring eg Makeout Party? Yes. Did i feel the same about songs on all other GD albums eg Christians Inferno, Know Your Enemy etc? Duh yes. As for SWTRLF i think that song is pretty easy to decipher and just as meaningful as anything off Dookie. As for your comment about Billie being too accomplished in various fields and therefore thinking he can do what he wants/record vocals sloppily or whatever...just wow. The idea of the sound of all three albums as explained in numerous interviews was a "live sound"...hence slight imperfections, more raw sound to the vocals and even a hey ho in Stay The Night. Its hillariously ironic that before Uno came out fsns bitched about 21c Breakdown and how his vocals sounded too polished. Billie and GD have achieved LOTS in their careers but never shown a hint of ego and their passion for music is what drives them forward. Suggesting they threw these albums out for the hell if it without quadrouple checking/overanalysing every detail suggests you havent paid attention to the perfectionists these guys are. Finally your absolutely sickening comment about Billies "rant" barely deserves a response. The guy is in rehab. Mike has said his life is in danger. Rob Cavallo even felt the need to inform idiots who aparantly dont understand the meaning of substance abuse that his rehab was no joke. Billie has according to Mike had issues for some time and that night at the festival what we watched was an addict finally breaking down right in front of the world...for 99% of non idiots that was heartwrenching to watch. For the other 1% yeah...it was a guy with a bloated ego who feels entitled and just decided to tell everyone who he fucking is and fucking who he fucking isnt...just like you do when you feel entitled...right after you expose youself, swear excessively (even for someone who loves to), make a fool of yourself trying to lure people onstage to dance and of course sound like shit throughout your set...because you are entitled. Sometimes i wonder how stupid people can really be... I don't have the energy to respond to all the idiotic accusations levied in your post. You really don't think they've shown a hint of ego? Maybe you need to open your eyes. They said they would be the best at iheartradio. I didn't say anything about substance abuse. What I did say was the words he used were extremely entitled. He threw a hissy fit nothing more. He was sick with addiction but that doesn't change what he said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cob Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 Baby Eyes is actually one of my favorite Green Day songs all-time. I'm not even kidding. I absolutely love Baby Eyes. Straight up 80's punk right there, that and "Ashley". I think a lot of people dismissed those two songs at first because back to back they're the most similar (and familiar) sounding songs on the album, but they're fucking great; I almost get a Social Distortion feel from those tunes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackBaboon Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 If AI came out last week with the singer in rehab and label had halted promo yes it would sell low... Not that low. Especially considering it didn't have any flop singles and still wouldn't. If those songs were released today with updated lyrics try might not be as large but you would still be hearing them everywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NGDP Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 Ok...the fuck?! Firstly are you suggesting that Green Day have too much "liberty" and control over their OWN music?! And aparantly THAT is why they "arent selling"?! Lmao...you are a riot...you do realise they released two independent records before Dookie right? And they have had the same "liberty" with all their records as these ones. Perhaps they arent selling to your standards because it isnt 1994 (when punk/grunge scene was THE biggest scene in music) or 2004 when Linkin Park and My Chemical Romance would take every MTV award and nobody had even heard of Katy Perry/Bieber/Rhianna. Trends...music trends...Insomniac is a gem, Nimrod is a gem yet they fell foul of the trends of the time...destined to be overlooked. American Idiot is brilliant but it isnt massive just because its a great album...it is massive because of timing. The trilogy doesnt stand a chance when it has to be played alongside the current music trends. Green Days music however does not rely on fickle trends to survive. Promotion never hurts either though its rather hard to do when the lead singer is in rehab. Despite this their album sales arent too terribly affected (i mean seriously noone knows Dos even exists!). Those of us who do for the record seem pretty damn fond of it (i dont know where your boycotters are from?!). Do I love all the songs? No. Do i love all the songs on any GD album? No. Do i love most? Yes. Are some lyrics non-inspiring eg Makeout Party? Yes. Did i feel the same about songs on all other GD albums eg Christians Inferno, Know Your Enemy etc? Duh yes. As for SWTRLF i think that song is pretty easy to decipher and just as meaningful as anything off Dookie. As for your comment about Billie being too accomplished in various fields and therefore thinking he can do what he wants/record vocals sloppily or whatever...just wow. The idea of the sound of all three albums as explained in numerous interviews was a "live sound"...hence slight imperfections, more raw sound to the vocals and even a hey ho in Stay The Night. Its hillariously ironic that before Uno came out fsns bitched about 21c Breakdown and how his vocals sounded too polished. Billie and GD have achieved LOTS in their careers but never shown a hint of ego and their passion for music is what drives them forward. Suggesting they threw these albums out for the hell if it without quadrouple checking/overanalysing every detail suggests you havent paid attention to the perfectionists these guys are. Finally your absolutely sickening comment about Billies "rant" barely deserves a response. The guy is in rehab. Mike has said his life is in danger. Rob Cavallo even felt the need to inform idiots who aparantly dont understand the meaning of substance abuse that his rehab was no joke. Billie has according to Mike had issues for some time and that night at the festival what we watched was an addict finally breaking down right in front of the world...for 99% of non idiots that was heartwrenching to watch. For the other 1% yeah...it was a guy with a bloated ego who feels entitled and just decided to tell everyone who he fucking is and fucking who he fucking isnt...just like you do when you feel entitled...right after you expose youself, swear excessively (even for someone who loves to), make a fool of yourself trying to lure people onstage to dance and of course sound like shit throughout your set...because you are entitled. Sometimes i wonder how stupid people can really be... THIS. A MILLION TIMES THIS. Some people need to stop pretending like Green Day are perfect, because they are far from it. They're good at what they do and just because you don't like what they're doing at the moment doesn't mean that they suddenly abandoned all their artistic integrity and stopped caring. Like fuck, they're putting out 37 songs, there's bound to be ones you don't like. 21st Century Breakdown wasn't exactly my cup of tea but you never saw me bitching about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Femme Gauche Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 I absolutely love Baby Eyes. Straight up 80's punk right there, that and "Ashley". I think a lot of people dismissed those two songs at first because back to back they're the most similar (and familiar) sounding songs on the album, but they're fucking great; I almost get a Social Distortion feel from those tunes. I hear more Misfits, especially with Baby Eyes, because even lyrically it sounds like something they could do (through the Green Day lens, of course). But basically I agree <3. Oh, and "Ashley" was another one that I keep getting stuck in my head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cob Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 I hear more Misfits, especially with Baby Eyes, because even lyrically it sounds like something they could do (through the Green Day lens, of course). But basically I agree <3. Oh, and "Ashley" was another one that I keep getting stuck in my head. I agree 100%. It's absolutely fantastic. Its dark, probably one of their most menacing riffs. Year of the rat, last of the litter somebody shot the babysitter... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Femme Gauche Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 I agree 100%. It's absolutely fantastic. Its dark, probably one of their most menacing riffs. Year of the rat, last of the litter somebody shot the babysitter... The "I was born to KILL" part is so intense, like, WHOA. *shivers* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hero_Of_The_Hour Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 I don't have the energy to respond to all the idiotic accusations levied in your post. You really don't think they've shown a hint of ego? Maybe you need to open your eyes. They said they would be the best at iheartradio. I didn't say anything about substance abuse. What I did say was the words he used were extremely entitled. He threw a hissy fit nothing more. He was sick with addiction but that doesn't change what he said. Idiotic accusations?! Ha...i didnt accuse you of anything i just called you an idiot. They have ALWAYS joked around about being "the best" band at blah or the greatest band playing wherever. They have done it since 94 possibly before...you need to open your eyes and recognise the hint if sarcastic arrogance ever present in the band and indeed most punk bands. Also i know you never mentioned substance abuse you idiot and thats my point...Billie was NOT just throwing his toys out of the stroller...he was high as fuck/drunk as fuck or both and you think it was a "hissy fit". Well i haven't the energy or the inclination to point out how flawed your judgement is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cob Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 I don't have the energy to respond to all the idiotic accusations levied in your post. You really don't think they've shown a hint of ego? Maybe you need to open your eyes. They said they would be the best at iheartradio. I didn't say anything about substance abuse. What I did say was the words he used were extremely entitled. He threw a hissy fit nothing more. He was sick with addiction but that doesn't change what he said. Maybe you need to open your eyes and realize that, even in a giant block of rambling text, he was able to absolutely dismantle your argument better than anyone else here already has. This just keeps going in circles, we've already excepted that you don't like the trilogy, that's fine, you really don't need to justify it by resorting to fallacy. Just leave us to enjoy it please, and we'll make sure to get you a postcard when Tre comes out and we're rocking out to (and discussing) that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vespertine Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 Not that low. Especially considering it didn't have any flop singles and still wouldn't. If those songs were released today with updated lyrics try might not be as large but you would still be hearing them everywhere. Singles don't usually increase album sales that much. Take as an example Carly Rae Jepsen's new album; It was released a few weeks ago and it isn't selling much, despite of "Call Me Maybe" being a worldwide hit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cob Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 The "I was born to KILL" part is so intense, like, WHOA. *shivers* That part caught me way off guard the first time I heard it. I was expecting something like "/Oh Baby Baby Eyes/Oh Baby Baby I was born to love you," but what's there is way better. The chord progression in the riff is also way cool, it reminds a lot of the attitude on something like Reject from Nimrod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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