¡DOS! Album

[BlackBaboon]

Again, that would be fine if Billie Joe never had success, applause, and praise; but guess what, he has. In fact, he's had more than his fair share. Green Day has proven time and time again that they're a great rock band, probably in the top three biggest rock bands in the world right now (Metallica, Foo Fighters, Green Day; if an event needs a rock band nowadays, they go to them). They get tons of respect from respected music journalists like Rolling Stone, and the music industry still pays a ton of attention to them. This isn't just my fandom speaking, by the way, most people, even some GD haters, would agree they are a HUGE band, even if not everyone likes their music.

The financial success of an album is NEVER an indicator of an album's quality. Most mainstream, radio friendly music these days proves this fact time and time again. By your logic, Warning is piece of shit, when now it is being generally regarded in numerous rewrites as Green Day's best album musically. Frank Zappa, and incredible musician, barely ever made a dime on from his records, and yet he is regarded as one of the greatest song writers and guitar players of the last 50+ years.

And saying that Billie Joe "cheated us" by singing the album quickly is, once again, inaccurate. Billie Joe has ALWAYS sung every album quickly. Rob Cavallo has said numerous times that he had never seen an artist record vocals so fast and professionally until he worked with Green Day on Dookie. The same happened on American Idiot (he even sang those songs with hang overs, for God's sake) and every album in between. And that bit on Amy is dissonance from the guitar, it's supposed to sound raw.

I would also like to add that the success of Green Day has never just been Billie Joe or him "getting too big for himself". Green Day is 3 guys (4 now) that come together to hammer out great songs and perform amazing live shows, Billie Joe may come up with the basic lyrics and melody, but he would have never been able to do it without Tre and Mike.

Well as I said, Frank Zappa wasn't a huge commercial artist at the forefront of his major label with a history of selling platinum records. Whether you'd like to admit it or not, Green Day is about as mainstream as it gets, so the whole, 'so and so never made a dime and they were great' argument doesn't hold up very well. But you're also making the error of comparing Green Day to other musicians currently selling albums, which we don't need to do. Let's just compare them to Green Day! Sales, usually are good indication of quality, regardless of size, for an established band. A band's breakout album will always sell better than their first EP, but that's not what we're talking about here. Even if we want to call American Idiot and Dookie outliers these albums are still selling very poorly and that's with physical record sales increasing over the past six or seven years. That's not good. And that probably is an indication of quality.

That still doesn't mean that the albums were thrown together, though. Just because it isn't received as positively as one might hope, that doesn't mean that the band just threw it out there.

Well I wasn't really talking about the album being thrown together in this post. I was responding to someone who had said Uno was very well received by fans.

[AlissaGoesRAWR]

Well as I said, Frank Zappa wasn't a huge commercial artist at the forefront of his major label with a history of selling platinum records. Whether you'd like to admit it or not, Green Day is about as mainstream as it gets, so the whole, 'so and so never made a dime and they were great' argument doesn't hold up very well. But you're also making the error of comparing Green Day to other musicians currently selling albums, which we don't need to do. Let's just compare them to Green Day! Sales, usually are good indication of quality, regardless of size, for an established band. A band's breakout album will always sell better than their first EP, but that's not what we're talking about here. Even if we want to call American Idiot and Dookie outliers these albums are still selling very poorly and that's with physical record sales increasing over the past six or seven years. That's not good. And that probably is an indication of quality.

Or an indication of a changing industry, too. You have to keep that in mind. I can easily find music online now for free using a YouTube to MP3 converter.

[Femme Gauche]

Well as I said, Frank Zappa wasn't a huge commercial artist at the forefront of his major label with a history of selling platinum records. Whether you'd like to admit it or not, Green Day is about as mainstream as it gets, so the whole, 'so and so never made a dime and they were great' argument doesn't hold up very well. But you're also making the error of comparing Green Day to other musicians currently selling albums, which we don't need to do. Let's just compare them to Green Day! Sales, usually are good indication of quality, regardless of size, for an established band. A band's breakout album will always sell better than their first EP, but that's not what we're talking about here. Even if we want to call American Idiot and Dookie outliers these albums are still selling very poorly and that's with physical record sales increasing over the past six or seven years. That's not good. And that probably is an indication of quality.

Well I wasn't really talking about the album being thrown together in this post. I was responding to someone who had said Uno was very well received by fans.

But the whole argument you're making right now started with saying that the albums seem to be thrown together, that Billie Joe has gotten a big head due to their success, etc. And personally I find the albums to be very good. I don't know what other indicator of quality there needs to be... I find it good; it's just as likely they find it good, and if that is the case, then it can't be something they just threw together as filler.

[BlackBaboon]

Amy sounds like it does cause one it was recorded at Billie's apartment on his home studio...

Ok well I didn't know that, but I still feel like it was a slip to let that line go unrecorded. If Green Day were the type of band that were often out of key for effect I could understand, but that doesn't seem to be the case in any other song on this trilogy nor was it the case with any other line on that song. It seems like he just shrugged and said good enough, but I am speculating here. I just want to know how something like that could get through everyone if they were seriously reviewing the songs like they seemed to be doing on Idiot and Breakdown.

[Femme Gauche]

Or an indication of a changing industry, too. You have to keep that in mind. I can easily find music online now for free using a YouTube to MP3 converter.

That, and I wouldn't call a lot of the stuff that sells big now 'great'. It sells a lot... so what? That means it appeals at a basic level to a lot of people, but that doesn't mean it is good, regardless of how big the artist was beforehand.

[WhiteTim]

I've said this before and I know people disagree cause admitting it means blaiming Billie but Warner like most labels cant fully promote without the band being active Green Day is not an active band at the moment... hopefully when the band kicks back up the promotion picks back up

[Femme Gauche]

Ok well I didn't know that, but I still feel like it was a slip to let that line go unrecorded. If Green Day were the type of band that were often out of key for effect I could understand, but that doesn't seem to be the case in any other song on this trilogy nor was it the case with any other line on that song. It seems like he just shrugged and said good enough, but I am speculating here. I just want to know how something like that could get through everyone if they were seriously reviewing the songs like they seemed to be doing on Idiot and Breakdown.

Or maybe it was an artistic choice to leave it in :/.

I've said this before and I know people disagree cause admitting it means blaiming Billie but Warner like most labels cant fully promote without the band being active Green Day is not an active band at the moment... hopefully when the band kicks back up the promotion picks back up

Well yeah, I'd say that's a given, there was going to be a lot more promotion and I think if it had happened, they would be selling more.

[BlackBaboon]

But the whole argument you're making right now started with saying that the albums seem to be thrown together, that Billie Joe has gotten a big head due to their success, etc. And personally I find the albums to be very good. I don't know what other indicator of quality there needs to be... I find it good; it's just as likely they find it good, and if that is the case, then it can't be something they just threw together as filler.

Right, but not that post. That had nothing to do with the albums being thrown together. And, in any case, I'm glad that you find them good, but I think there's a much weaker case for these albums being 'good' than with any of their material before.

[Femme Gauche]

Right, but not that post. That had nothing to do with the albums being thrown together. And, in any case, I'm glad that you find them good, but I think there's a much weaker case for these albums being 'good' than with any of their material before.

Or, maybe, you just don't like them and want to quantify that feeling.

[AlissaGoesRAWR]

That, and I wouldn't call a lot of the stuff that sells big now 'great'. It sells a lot... so what? That means it appeals at a basic level to a lot of people, but that doesn't mean it is good, regardless of how big the artist was beforehand.

Completely agree. Taylor Swift sells huge and won "best live artist" for the EMAs, beating Green Day. And she sucks live. Popularity doesn't always mean quality work. Just turn on the radio.

I've said this before and I know people disagree cause admitting it means blaiming Billie but Warner like most labels cant fully promote without the band being active Green Day is not an active band at the moment... hopefully when the band kicks back up the promotion picks back up

I just really can't wait for the boys to be back. Aside from obvious reasons (promotions, concerts, etc.), I just feel like this whole situation has fans in a state of panic.

[WhiteTim]

Or maybe it was an artistic choice to leave it in :/.

Well yeah, I'd say that's a given, there was going to be a lot more promotion and I think if it had happened, they would be selling more.

Yep cause they were doing alot of promo before the rehab

But i like Dos i think i prefer Uno a bit more but i love em cant wait for Tre

[NGDP]

I totally see where all the criticism for this album is coming from, but I have to admit, I completely disagree with the majority of it. Like how people are criticizing 'Stop When The Red Lights Flash' for its simplicity, that's just something I really don't understand. Green Day have always been the epitome of simplicity musically, and I find it hilarious that people are judging that very constant aspect of their music. Like honestly, ANY Green Day song could (theoretically) be written in five minutes, they're all very simple. That doesn't make them bad though, in fact, that to me is one of the things that gives Green Day their charm.

As for people saying the record doesn't feel passionate, I advise you to pay close attention to the vocal delivery on this album. Every track (especially Makeout Party, Lady Cobra, Ashley and Baby Eyes) feels FAR more impassioned than anything I heard on iUno! Some songs on Uno were so lifeless that it really shined through and made the songs sounds sterile, so I seriously appreciate the WHAAAAAAAAOOOOOS on Makeout Party and the gritty vocals throughout the album.

The only aspect of this album that I was disappointed with were the lyrics. "Drinkin' the kool aid" in Wild One is pretty lame and there are some cliches to be found for sure. But even with these faults I'd say the lyrics are still better than Uno by a long shot. Aside from Let Yourself Go, Nuclear Family and Rusty James the lyrics were quite poor on Uno. For example "crash into you", "I wanna get inside of you" and "The bullet that you asked for killing you to death". *cringe*

Overall, I enjoyed Dos soooo much more than Uno and I find it kind of strange that so many people are talking negatively about it. Uno left my expectations for the rest of the trilogy pretty low, but Dos shot them right back up again.

[BlackBaboon]

That, and I wouldn't call a lot of the stuff that sells big now 'great'. It sells a lot... so what? That means it appeals at a basic level to a lot of people, but that doesn't mean it is good, regardless of how big the artist was beforehand.

Right, but you could have gotten Breakdown or Idiot online too. Without even comparing them to other artists we see a significant decline. Forget about the hottest artists right now, they'll always sell well, but these records aren't selling well for Green Day.

Or, maybe, you just don't like them and want to quantify that feeling.

Well I have a much easier time doing it looking at the statistics. I don't go around trying to quantify my hatred for anything else. I don't go to the Taylor Swift forums and try to convince the fans that her newest album sucks. But like I said, I think the sales speak for themselves. These are bad first week sales for Green Day and these are bad single charts for Green Day and this is bad radioplay for Green Day. Forget about anyone else.

[Femme Gauche]

Right, but you could have gotten Breakdown or Idiot online too. Without even comparing them to other artists we see a significant decline. Forget about the hottest artists right now, they'll always sell well, but these records aren't selling well for Green Day.

I'm thinking maybe it wasn't me you meant to quote here, because I wasn't talking about online sales. And even if the sales are a decline relative to Green Day, that still doesn't mean that it isn't as good, it just means that people in general have changing tastes.

[Cob]

Well as I said, Frank Zappa wasn't a huge commercial artist at the forefront of his major label with a history of selling platinum records. Whether you'd like to admit it or not, Green Day is about as mainstream as it gets, so the whole, 'so and so never made a dime and they were great' argument doesn't hold up very well. But you're also making the error of comparing Green Day to other musicians currently selling albums, which we don't need to do. Let's just compare them to Green Day! Sales, usually are good indication of quality, regardless of size, for an established band. A band's breakout album will always sell better than their first EP, but that's not what we're talking about here. Even if we want to call American Idiot and Dookie outliers these albums are still selling very poorly and that's with physical record sales increasing over the past six or seven years. That's not good. And that probably is an indication of quality.

Where are you getting your numbers? 2012 has seen an all time decrease in physical album sales. Only 120 Million CDs have been sold this year, compared to 150 Million at the same time last year.

http://www.billboard.biz/bbbiz/industry/retail/album-sales-slightly-down-digital-lp-sales-1007972162.story

In fact, digital pirating is at an all time high this year.

http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/industry_news/bittorrent_traffic_up_40.html

Uno has been considered to have done very well in today's music climate, and you are ignoring so many key aspects that factor into how an album sells. Comparing it to sales from 1994, 1995, 1997, 2000, 2004, and even 2008 is ridiculous, because their have been MASSIVE changes to the music industry during this time, and we all know that. It has nothing to do with quality. I don't mind that you don't like the albums, but you don't have to try to bring the band down in a meager attempt to justify yourself, just say you don't like it and leave it at that.

[Femme Gauche]

Well I have a much easier time doing it looking at the statistics. I don't go around trying to quantify my hatred for anything else. I don't go to the Taylor Swift forums and try to convince the fans that her newest album sucks. But like I said, I think the sales speak for themselves. These are bad first week sales for Green Day and these are bad single charts for Green Day and this is bad radioplay for Green Day. Forget about anyone else.

Again, so? It doesn't sell well, so what? Not everything that is good sells well, regardless of visibility, regardless of who it is coming from, or how well they have done in the past.

[BlackBaboon]

Or maybe it was an artistic choice to leave it in :/.

I did mention that it could have been, but they don't really do that anywhere else and historically they haven't been the type of band that sings out of key intentionally. Maybe they heard it and really liked it, but that doesn't seem consistent with anything else. Like I said though, maybe it's the case.

[Femme Gauche]

I did mention that it could have been, but they don't really do that anywhere else and historically they haven't been the type of band that sings out of key intentionally. Maybe they heard it and really liked it, but that doesn't seem consistent with anything else. Like I said though, maybe it's the case.

Maybe it just never happened before. Maybe they're making different choices now than they were in the past. Hence the new albums. Hence having different styles of music on these albums from previous albums.

[WhiteTim]

Who cares how well an album sales? Are you working for Green Day or Warner Music Group to where the sales personally affects you?

What the only matters for fans should be is

Did you enjoy the album? How did the album affect you?

Not "this album only sold 12 copies so it's not good"

[AlissaGoesRAWR]

I did mention that it could have been, but they don't really do that anywhere else and historically they haven't been the type of band that sings out of key intentionally. Maybe they heard it and really liked it, but that doesn't seem consistent with anything else. Like I said though, maybe it's the case.

Historically, Billie's voice has changed a lot since he started singing, so it's hard to really justify your argument by using his singing "history." He's much more versatile singing-wise now. Not that the old stuff is bad, but he sings very differently now. I think Amy is meant to sound more raw, and it's hauntingly effective. Although obviously I can't judge if the off-key part is "supposed" to be in there because I didn't sing or record it.

[Cob]

Who cares how well an album sales? Are you working for Green Day or Warner Music Group to where the sales personally affects you?

What the only matters for fans should be is

Did you enjoy the album? How did the album affect you?

Not "this album only sold 12 copies so it's not good"

You work in the music industry right? This guy knows what he is talking about more than anyone I think.

[WhiteTim]

I did mention that it could have been, but they don't really do that anywhere else and historically they haven't been the type of band that sings out of key intentionally. Maybe they heard it and really liked it, but that doesn't seem consistent with anything else. Like I said though, maybe it's the case.

They also have never released a demo recording on an album before eithet first time for everything

Personally I think it's fitting it's not a song that should focus on perfection but the feeling...

You work in the music industry right? This guy knows what he is talking about more than anyone I think. :toocool:/>

Used to now in film but still have friends in music

[No Rhyme Or Reason]

Well as I said, Frank Zappa wasn't a huge commercial artist at the forefront of his major label with a history of selling platinum records. Whether you'd like to admit it or not, Green Day is about as mainstream as it gets, so the whole, 'so and so never made a dime and they were great' argument doesn't hold up very well. But you're also making the error of comparing Green Day to other musicians currently selling albums, which we don't need to do. Let's just compare them to Green Day! Sales, usually are good indication of quality, regardless of size, for an established band. A band's breakout album will always sell better than their first EP, but that's not what we're talking about here. Even if we want to call American Idiot and Dookie outliers these albums are still selling very poorly and that's with physical record sales increasing over the past six or seven years. That's not good. And that probably is an indication of quality.

First of all, album sales - both generally and for physical sales specifically - have done nothing but drop in the last decade. I don't know what makes you think they've increased over the past 6-7 years. Digital sales have overtaken physical sales, but overall album sales are dropping fast.

That said, we can't fairly compare the sales of Uno and Dos with Green Day's own past releases. American Idiot came out when albums were doing twice as well as they are now. The 90s were even better for albums in terms of sales. So while all of their past albums have indeed sold better, they were also all released in better conditions regarding sales. Looking just at numbers is an inaccurate comparison. True, Dos is not doing as well as we would hope. But it also had basically no promotion and no band to promote it.

We should give it time before we make our real judgements. The trilogy might end up being really successful once Billie is able to get out there again.

[BlackBaboon]

Where are you getting your numbers? 2012 has seen an all time decrease in physical album sales. Only 120 Million CDs have been sold this year, compared to 150 Million at the same time last year.

http://www.billboard...007972162.story

In fact, digital pirating is at an all time high this year.

http://www.ultimate-...ffic_up_40.html

Uno has been considered to have done very well in today's music climate, and you are ignoring so many key aspects that factor into how an album sells. Comparing it to sales from 1994, 1995, 1997, 2000, 2004, and even 2008 is ridiculous, because their have been MASSIVE changes to the music industry during this time, and we all know that. It has nothing to do with quality. I don't mind that you don't like the albums, but you don't have to try to bring the band down in a meager attempt to justify yourself, just say you don't like it and leave it at that.

Last years sales were very, very high so I wouldn't expect this years to match. And this years sales are higher than in 2009, when 21st Century Breakdown was released. And is Uno really considered to be selling that well? I mean, it fell from the top ten before I could blink and it's been outsold in a single week by much less established performers. I just think some people are trying to justify the poor numbers.

[Femme Gauche]

Last years sales were very, very high so I wouldn't expect this years to match. And this years sales are higher than in 2009, when 21st Century Breakdown was released. And is Uno really considered to be selling that well? I mean, it fell from the top ten before I could blink and it's been outsold in a single week by much less established performers. I just think some people are trying to justify the poor numbers.

There's nothing to justify. Numbers aren't the same as quality, period.