Green Day on Twilight soundtrack

[justcause]

The album artwork for all the albums before this trilogy reflected the band's image and their music. Now it reflects the tween demographic.

Everyone's response to art is different, and for myself, I just fucking loved this artwork from the get-go. It feels rough-and-ready, impulsive, trippy - it's got a vertigo-thing going on, and the Xs on the eyes are like a cartoon drunk. Getting Uno into my hands, the lyrics sheet looks so gloriously cheap and trashy - looks like a lot of generic fonts, randomly bolded and upsized; it's chaos, and that certainly resonates the spirit of the album. You got a photo of Billie Joe taken by whoever in the band for the cover, a photo by Theo Stockman slapped on the back cover - it's all informal and hands-on, fucking great. The day-glo colors I just love, because they're my kind of thing, but they're also resonant of '77 punk.

Chris Bilheimer did the art direction on this, as he has done for GD since Nimrod, and I guess you either like it or you don't - a lot of people on here really didn't like the 21CB cover-art - but there's the thread, the continuity, and how he furthers GD's expression of where they're at now.

I think you have a lot of points that you feel passionate about with the marketing of the trilogy, but bunching them all together overlooks that within it there's a whole range of people, each of them doing their particular job to the best of their ability. Sure, there's money to be made, there's corporate stuff - but even corporations could be making money off safer bets than a trilogy of albums from a band who aren't - umm, 'fucking Justin Beiber'. The climate for music like GD's is bordering hostile right now, and as I take it, the marketing is bringing the fight on all available platforms - why the fuck not ?

[melissawebster]

Gerardsangel,

Jeez. Get a grip. I never once said that demographic wasn't important, so stop distorting my position and stop ignoring the actual point of my posts with your fake outrage over my supposed insult of your former generation. My only complaint is that they're marketing exclusively to that demographic, to the point they're being hypocritical and alienating their established fanbase. Is that really too complicated for you to understand?

And by your own admittance and example, less than half of the people you've mentioned are still following Green Day and listening to their music, which only proves my point further.

And American Idiot wasn't targeted to the tween demographic. The album art was about the music, not the target market. You seem to think because they did a few things targeting that demographic throughout their career, in addition to all the other things they did, that it means it's the same as what they're doing now. It's not. This time it's over-the-top and transparent. And again, alienating their established fanbase. Just to make very very clear what I mean by that, when I say they are alienating their fanbase, I'm not talking about fans who get mad because Green Day is doing something different with the music. I'm talking about flat-out insulting, ignoring and/or abandoning their established fanbase in lieu of the tween-set, like with Billie Joe Armstrong and the Twitter vs. Instagram marketing deal, and the Walmart censorship issue.

American Idiot may have been different from what they did before, which is something I actually LOVE about this album trilogy, but they weren't hypocrites in doing it. They stayed true to the music even with the marketing. They may not have planned to do a rock opera, they may have even voiced opposition to it at one time, but changing their minds and doing one anyway is still staying true to their music. It isn't even close to what they did over the Walmart issue and censorship, where they took a stand to the point of refusing to do business with Walmart, and then three years later turned around and not only did business with Walmart, but actually censored their own songs to accommodate Walmart.

And this time around, the marketing isn't about the music at all. It is pure, unadulterated balls-to-the-walls solely to make money at the expense of the music. Which, again, is why they've had to backtrack and change course a few times, and the promotional roll-out has been so chaotic.

[melissawebster]

Everyone's response to art is different, and for myself, I just fucking loved this artwork from the get-go. It feels rough-and-ready, impulsive, trippy - it's got a vertigo-thing going on, and the Xs on the eyes are like a cartoon drunk. Getting Uno into my hands, the lyrics sheet looks so gloriously cheap and trashy - looks like a lot of generic fonts, randomly bolded and upsized; it's chaos, and that certainly resonates the spirit of the album. You got a photo of Billie Joe taken by whoever in the band for the cover, a photo by Theo Stockman slapped on the back cover - it's all informal and hands-on, fucking great. The day-glo colors I just love, because they're my kind of thing, but they're also resonant of '77 punk.

Chris Bilheimer did the art direction on this, as he has done for GD since Nimrod, and I guess you either like it or you don't - a lot of people on here really didn't like the 21CB cover-art - but there's the thread, the continuity, and how he furthers GD's expression of where they're at now.

I think you have a lot of points that you feel passionate about with the marketing of the trilogy, but bunching them all together overlooks that within it there's a whole range of people, each of them doing their particular job to the best of their ability. Sure, there's money to be made, there's corporate stuff - but even corporations could be making money off safer bets than a trilogy of albums from a band who aren't - umm, 'fucking Justin Beiber'. The climate for music like GD's is bordering hostile right now, and as I take it, the marketing is bringing the fight on all available platforms - why the fuck not ?

Oh wow! Great post. I don't agree with you on the album artwork, but I hadn't thought of it in a 70s punk sort of way. It does kind of have that look, doesn't it?

And you make an excellent point about the climate for rock music. It's one of my biggest pet peeves about today's mainstream music, mostly because it makes no fucking sense to me. Like I said many pages ago, the Twilight thing is mild compared to some of the other things they've done. I don't like it, but I'm not really opposed to it either. Mostly, I'm resigned to this shit at this point.

[WhiteTim]

We cant compare AI marketing and trilogy marketing cause the label was owned by different companies with totally different marketing people if the current team was working AI we'd probally seen what the marketing is doing now just back then in AI they had marketing team thay had 20+ years on experience working now u got a bunch of college interns and recent grads working with NO experience on how to work working on a huge project and instead of focusing on the core audience you got em just throwing darts blind folded hoping one sticks...

As far as artwork they're not my favorite ones GD has done but whats wrong with em?

i didnt think of 70s punk i was thinking like 70s Greatful Dead type feel with the loud colora trying to hypotize ya feel

[melissawebster]

We cant compare AI marketing and trilogy marketing cause the label was owned by different companies with totally different marketing people if the current team was working AI we'd probally seen what the marketing is doing now just back then in AI they had marketing team thay had 20+ years on experience working now u got a bunch of college interns and recent grads working with NO experience on how to work working on a huge project and instead of focusing on the core audience you got em just throwing darts blind folded hoping one sticks...

As far as artwork they're not my favorite ones GD has done but whats wrong with em?

i didnt think of 70s punk i was thinking like 70s Greatful Dead type feel with the loud colora trying to hypotize ya feel

Haha! So true. Except I think they're just following the formula checklist for pop-star marketing strategy, as opposed to throwing darts at the wall.

Album trilogies have been done before. This isn't new. Maybe the time-table and set-up is a little different, but this isn't an impossible task. Mostly, it's screwed up because they weren't factoring in the music and the band and how that relates to their core fanbase. They followed a generic formula that "always works" and focused on the wrong demographic, which should have been an expansion of the marketing, NOT the entire marketing.

Yeah, the artwork definitely has that trippy, hypnotizing thing going for it. And I'm not positive, but I think they've made it look a bit more edgy than the original artwork looked back in the spring. Is that right? It looks a little different now, dirtier, less crisp and polished.

[WhiteTim]

Yeah, the artwork definitely has that trippy, hypnotizing thing going for it. And I'm not positive, but I think they've made it look a bit more edgy than the original artwork looked back in the spring. Is that right? It looks a little different now, dirtier, less crisp and polished.

Oh the covers were changed? I guess I dont remember the early ones then

[Sleeper Agent.]

Am I the only one that doesn't actually care about if a Green Day song does indeed feature in a movie? Who cares, they had to give permission to have the song used. So they must deem it something that is worthy of public viewing, or just part of the contract with Warner. In any cause, it doesn't matter.

[justcause]

Am I the only one that doesn't actually care about if a Green Day song does indeed feature in a movie? Who cares, they had to give permission to have the song used. So they must deem it something that is worthy of public viewing, or just part of the contract with Warner. In any cause, it doesn't matter.

Doesn't matter a fucking damn. On here in the AI era, we had a thread devoted to the humongous merchandizing crap generated - yeah, we got worked up that an air-freshener with the heartgrenade logo existed - and what does it matter now?? IT DOESN'T MATTER. It never did matter. None of this shit matters - it turns up on eBay as a curiousity or a collector's item and all I feel is nostalgia for when Green Day was saturating the culture.

All that matters, all that endures is the music, and as to the extraneous stuff, you can choose to have fun with it, or you can get all high and mighty and despise it - but it doesn't matter. It really doesn't - if you're fucking mainlining music, you don't fucking care about anything else.

[melissawebster]

Oh the covers were changed? I guess I dont remember the early ones then

I'm not sure. That's why I'm asking. I'm not sure if I'm remembering it correctly, but I think the artwork was brighter without the distortion it has now, so it looked more cartoony or something before. I could be wrong though. It just seems dirtier and grittier now, which is a definite improvement.

[Dalya]

I feel like 'The Forgotten' is another prototype of 21 Guns, or it has the same mainstream vibe on it 'cause such movies like that don't pick up some random shit

[*withoutadoubt*]

Doesn't matter a fucking damn. On here in the AI era, we had a thread devoted to the humongous merchandizing crap generated - yeah, we got worked up that an air-freshener with the heartgrenade logo existed - and what does it matter now?? IT DOESN'T MATTER. It never did matter. None of this shit matters - it turns up on eBay as a curiousity or a collector's item and all I feel is nostalgia for when Green Day was saturating the culture.

All that matters, all that endures is the music, and as to the extraneous stuff, you can choose to have fun with it, or you can get all high and mighty and despise it - but it doesn't matter. It really doesn't - if you're fucking mainlining music, you don't fucking care about anything else.

Thank God someone finally said it. Thank you for saying it so beautifully.

It really doesn't matter, all of this little crap. We've got new music, and who gives a crap who they are playing it for, where they are playing it, what their logo looks like, or what stores it's being sold in??? It's all secondary to what's important. The MUSIC.

[gerardsangel4977]

Gerardsangel, Jeez. Get a grip. I never once said that demographic wasn't important, so stop distorting my position and stop ignoring the actual point of my posts with your fake outrage over my supposed insult of your former generation. My only complaint is that they're marketing exclusively to that demographic, to the point they're being hypocritical and alienating their established fanbase. Is that really too complicated for you to understand? And by your own admittance and example, less than half of the people you've mentioned are still following Green Day and listening to their music, which only proves my point further. And American Idiot wasn't targeted to the tween demographic. The album art was about the music, not the target market. You seem to think because they did a few things targeting that demographic throughout their career, in addition to all the other things they did, that it means it's the same as what they're doing now. It's not. This time it's over-the-top and transparent. And again, alienating their established fanbase. Just to make very very clear what I mean by that, when I say they are alienating their fanbase, I'm not talking about fans who get mad because Green Day is doing something different with the music. I'm talking about flat-out insulting, ignoring and/or abandoning their established fanbase in lieu of the tween-set, like with Billie Joe Armstrong and the Twitter vs. Instagram marketing deal, and the Walmart censorship issue. American Idiot may have been different from what they did before, which is something I actually LOVE about this album trilogy, but they weren't hypocrites in doing it. They stayed true to the music even with the marketing. They may not have planned to do a rock opera, they may have even voiced opposition to it at one time, but changing their minds and doing one anyway is still staying true to their music. It isn't even close to what they did over the Walmart issue and censorship, where they took a stand to the point of refusing to do business with Walmart, and then three years later turned around and not only did business with Walmart, but actually censored their own songs to accommodate Walmart. And this time around, the marketing isn't about the music at all. It is pure, unadulterated balls-to-the-walls solely to make money at the expense of the music. Which, again, is why they've had to backtrack and change course a few times, and the promotional roll-out has been so chaotic.

Alright, this is, officially, the last thing I am going to say on this subject:

1) My outrage was not "fake". I genuinely found your viewpoint and, more specificlally, the way you expressed it to be borderline offensive. And I emphatically disagree.

2) To clarify what it is I disagreed with, precisely, I do not think the trilogy artwork, specifically, looks like it belongs on an 11-year-old's bedroom wall anymore than any of their past albums did; I do not think that Green Day is inappropriate for that age group; and I do not think that Green Day is marketing *solely* to that audience. On the contrary, I think they are marketing to all their potential fanbases at once, and, yeah, it is a bit of a mess trying to cover that many bases all at the same time, especially when your label reps aren't 100% sure how to handle it either. I am not going to restate all the reasons why I think these things, since I've already detailed them in my two prior posts, and half of it got ignored anyway.

3)The outrage over American Idiot was not due to *just* the music. Sure, their change in creative direction was a huge turn-off for a lot of people, but it wasn't the only issue at hand at the time. People didn't like that they were being overtly political now: between those who disagreed with the views the band was espousing, those who thought politics had no place in music, period, and those who thought Billie Joe was being a hypocrite for doing something he said he never would--on both counts. People also were unhappy with the band's new makeover; they saw the guys' weight loss, combined with their new, fancy clothes, sexy hairdos, and eyeliner as a deliberate ploy to latch on to the emerging emo/goth fashion trend and to make the band more attractive to hormonal adolescents (along with those who just thought it was "gay" ). Some people were unhappy with their music videos from the era, the one for Wake Me Up When September Ends, in particular, getting a lot of backlash for using a personal song to promote a politicized message. People complained that there was too much merchandising (as evidenced above re: heart grenade air fresheners), that their songs were being used in too many movies and TV shows, that they were on the cover of too many magazines. They complained about the formulaic nature of the live shows, which featured near-identical setlists comprised mainly of their hits and no more audience requests (this element later got reintroduced with the 21CB tour). They complained that Green Day played at football events; complained that they collaborated with U2; that they made an appearance on American Idol; that they were in the Simpson's movie; that they participated in every award show known to man. They complained about Billie's Adeline Street clothing line (yeah, he had one of those back then), about Mike owning a restaurant, and on and on and on....For some people, it was all just too much, too commercial, and they felt that Green Day were no longer the band they fell in love with. They were accused of having sold out left and right, and it's hardly a secret that they did, indeed, lose a lot of fans during that time, as well as gaining plenty in their stead.

[Vic_Rattlehead]

I mean seriously, it's not even like the Campaign, you don't have to watch the film at all. Just go buy/download the soundtrack and listen to the song. Jeez.

[No Rhyme Or Reason]

Gerardsangel,

Jeez. Get a grip. I never once said that demographic wasn't important, so stop distorting my position and stop ignoring the actual point of my posts with your fake outrage over my supposed insult of your former generation. My only complaint is that they're marketing exclusively to that demographic, to the point they're being hypocritical and alienating their established fanbase. Is that really too complicated for you to understand?

And by your own admittance and example, less than half of the people you've mentioned are still following Green Day and listening to their music, which only proves my point further.

I'd just like to point out: they are NOT marketing EXCLUSIVELY to that demographic. Sure, they have the Angry Birds and the Twilight movie and the VMAs and stuff, but that's no different than, say, the Rock Band game that came out a couple of years ago, or the inclusion of 21 Guns in the Transformers soundtrack. But in addition to these marketing ploys aimed at a somewhat younger generation (i.e., teens, not children), they ALSO have been marketing to the older demographic. Teens don't watch Good Morning America - adults do. Green Day was supposed to be on Jimmy Kimmel and Ellen too, also not aimed so much at the younger population.

Then consider the singles. Sure, Oh Love is rather mainstream and was meant to attract a broad, casual audience. But they also released Let Yourself Go, which panders to a completely different audience: those who like faster, pump-ass punk songs. Totally different songs were released to appeal to different audiences, in terms of age as well as musical interests and, by extension, different mindsets.

Green Day is not being any more hypocritical than they have been for the last decade. They said they'd never do a rock opera. Ten years later they did. They said they'd never release a ballad. Good Riddance (Time Of Your Life) came out in 1997. They made a point to always wear casual baggy pants and t-shirts. Then in 2004 they ditched those ordinary clothes for designer suits and a sleek, put-together look. They said they'd never make a musical. 2009: AI opens in Berkeley and goes on to Broadway in less than a year. Green Day has been saying things and then changing their minds for their entire career. It's nothing new. They have a right to re-evaluate their opinions and change them. I do, you do, it's normal for people to change their minds about things. I used to hate watermelon, but I like it now. My opinion changed.

Green Day isn't alienating their fanbase. They're tying to appease ALL of it. If anyone feels alienated, they should look at their own values and come to terms with what they think is most important. You shouldn't allow a movie or a game or the existence of younger fans to affect your feelings for the said band.

And for the record, many people do still listen to Green Day, even after they grow up and go to college. Where I'm from, if I tell someone that Green Day's my favorite band, they're always like "Oh, that's awesome. They're really good." Clearly people in my demographic (lower 20s) still like Green Day, just like we all did when we were in high school.

And American Idiot wasn't targeted to the tween demographic. The album art was about the music, not the target market. You seem to think because they did a few things targeting that demographic throughout their career, in addition to all the other things they did, that it means it's the same as what they're doing now. It's not. This time it's over-the-top and transparent. And again, alienating their established fanbase. Just to make very very clear what I mean by that, when I say they are alienating their fanbase, I'm not talking about fans who get mad because Green Day is doing something different with the music. I'm talking about flat-out insulting, ignoring and/or abandoning their established fanbase in lieu of the tween-set, like with Billie Joe Armstrong and the Twitter vs. Instagram marketing deal, and the Walmart censorship issue.

American Idiot may have been different from what they did before, which is something I actually LOVE about this album trilogy, but they weren't hypocrites in doing it. They stayed true to the music even with the marketing. They may not have planned to do a rock opera, they may have even voiced opposition to it at one time, but changing their minds and doing one anyway is still staying true to their music. It isn't even close to what they did over the Walmart issue and censorship, where they took a stand to the point of refusing to do business with Walmart, and then three years later turned around and not only did business with Walmart, but actually censored their own songs to accommodate Walmart.

Actually, American Idiot was marketed to the tween demographic. Hence my own discovery of them in 2004 when I was just barely 14. And not just me, but everyone in my school. They were on MTV, on posters sold at Fred Meyer, on notebooks and pens at Claire's, etc. The reason so many people in my age group discovered Green Day in 2004 is because they were marketed to teenagers. (As well as the older audiences.) And I'd argue that Green Day was ever "hypocritical," this is when it became most apparent. They traded out their scruffy average-Joe style for designer clothes, guyliner, and an overall more sophisticated-sexy rocker look than they'd ever had before.

Despite all of the external aspects of it though, then and now Green Day has always stayed true to the music. That has never been compromised. They've evolved and experimented, but their core punk values and consistency in writing meaningful (yet catchy) songs have remained. I've never doubted them musically, and I don't think things like their clothes or what movie soundtrack the gave a song to should come into that. Their marketing of the trilogy has not compromised their music in any way. Even with the "censored" versions of their albums - Billie didn't sing new vocals. They just bleeped out the swearing. The only song with alternate lyrics is Kill The DJ, and you can't even buy that version anywhere as far as I know. Green Day's music is still authentic, and they have stayed true to it this time around just like at every other point in the past.

And this time around, the marketing isn't about the music at all. It is pure, unadulterated balls-to-the-walls solely to make money at the expense of the music. Which, again, is why they've had to backtrack and change course a few times, and the promotional roll-out has been so chaotic.

Marketing is usually not strictly about the music. If it was, the music would just speak for itself and we wouldn't need marketers. Marketing is meant to get the music to other people, often by incorporating it (or the image of the band) into different facets. That's why music is marketed via movies, talk shows, facebook games, sporting events, etc. None of those are about music, but by pairing music with them, fans of these different media are made aware of this new album, leading them to (hopefully) buy the album.

The promotional roll-out has been chaotic because obviously the label has never tried to market a trilogy - released in a span of only 4 months - to a public in which rock isn't exactly the popular genre. Of course they're going to try everything and see what works! It's not like they have any past experience to base it on. The whole trilogy is a huge risk - Rob Cavallo had to convince the label to allow them to do this. So of course, Green Day will be obligated to allow marketing in any way Warner sees fit. The label is risking a lot for them, so Green Day is kind of required to do a lot of different marketing tactics. Maybe if they do another trilogy it will run more smoothly, since they'll have an idea of what actually works best. But for now, this is a big experiment, and we shouldn't attack them for trying different things just so they can get all this music out there. Green Day is being insanely generous in giving us 37 new songs, so we should cut them for slack for trying to not totally fail in the process. We want these albums to be successful, and the best way for that to happen is to market them in any and every way possible. Not just to adults, but also to teenagers. Not just to men, but also to women, Not just to people who like punk rock, but also people who prefer pop. Not just to the hardcore fans - us - but also to the casual audience who may not realize they have 3 new albums.

Music is meant to be enjoyed by many people, regardless of age, gender, nationality, sexuality, social status, music preference, or any other measurement of a person's worth. Like it or not, Green Day wants to have a healthy fan base, not just with the older listeners, but with younger ones too. The teens do grow up. I did, and I still love Green Day - probably even more than I did 8 years ago. I'm sorry if you're offended that they have been marketing to a younger audience (in ADDITION to the older audience), but that's just the way a band of Green Day's size has to work. But remember: The value of their music is not based on how it's marketed. Let the music speak for itself, and you'll find that they're the same guys they've always been. Marketing does not reflect the value of the music, it simply introduces it to a different audience.

I feel like you should be more positive. Dwelling on what's upsetting just makes life more depressing. You don't have to agree with everything Green Day say or do - I don't - but you can just choose to focus on what you do like. It's more fun that way.

(ahem, I talk way too much. sorry!)

[Ana.]

My friend told me yesterday. UGH, can't really say I am excited about it.

[Hermione]

Doesn't matter a fucking damn. On here in the AI era, we had a thread devoted to the humongous merchandizing crap generated - yeah, we got worked up that an air-freshener with the heartgrenade logo existed - and what does it matter now?? IT DOESN'T MATTER. It never did matter. None of this shit matters - it turns up on eBay as a curiousity or a collector's item and all I feel is nostalgia for when Green Day was saturating the culture.

All that matters, all that endures is the music, and as to the extraneous stuff, you can choose to have fun with it, or you can get all high and mighty and despise it - but it doesn't matter. It really doesn't - if you're fucking mainlining music, you don't fucking care about anything else.

Thank God someone finally said it. Thank you for saying it so beautifully.

It really doesn't matter, all of this little crap. We've got new music, and who gives a crap who they are playing it for, where they are playing it, what their logo looks like, or what stores it's being sold in??? It's all secondary to what's important. The MUSIC.

I wish I could like these posts 10 times. Wonderfully put!

[iltrenta]

I honestly don't care if their music is part of the soundtrack of this movie, anyway I found this video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCCUZXVr3dc&feature=player_detailpage

[Dori_Epiphone]

I honestly don't care if their music is part of the soundtrack of this movie, anyway I found this video

I posted it yesterday

[Chuckk]

I honestly don't care if their music is part of the soundtrack of this movie, anyway I found this video

"Like the "Twilight" series but good" ... Oh Billie .. -_-

[Hermione]

Please remember not to quote videos. You can just delete them from your post before you reply

[iltrenta]

I posted it yesterday

oops I didn't see it!

[Dori_Epiphone]

oops I didn't see it!

haha no worries

[melissawebster]

I feel like you should be more positive. Dwelling on what's upsetting just makes life more depressing. You don't have to agree with everything Green Day say or do - I don't - but you can just choose to focus on what you do like. It's more fun that way.

(ahem, I talk way too much. sorry!)

Attention fandom: It is possible and healthier to be a supportive fan while disagreeing with some things the band does. Defending my position on a specific topic on a specific forum when trolls target me DOES NOT make me a negative person towards the band. These are valid concerns that are supported by facts.

Dwelling? Yeah, that can easily be turned around to say all of you are dwelling on the positive out of blind alleigance (sp?) while ignoring or making excuses for those valid concerns. I'm not dwelling on the negative. For the most part, I speak very positively about the band, and I've never said one negative thing about the music itself. Like I stated many times in this forum, I don't really care one way or the other about their music being in a Twilight movie. Jeez.

[No Rhyme Or Reason]

Attention fandom: It is possible and healthier to be a supportive fan while disagreeing with some things the band does. Defending my position on a specific topic on a specific forum when trolls target me DOES NOT make me a negative person towards the band. These are valid concerns that are supported by facts.

Dwelling? Yeah, that can easily be turned around to say all of you are dwelling on the positive out of blind alleigance (sp?) while ignoring or making excuses for those valid concerns. I'm not dwelling on the negative. For the most part, I speak very positively about the band, and I've never said one negative thing about the music itself. Like I stated many times in this forum, I don't really care one way or the other about their music being in a Twilight movie. Jeez.

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to imply that you're a negative person or that you can't disagree with something band says or does. As I mentioned in my previous post, I do too sometimes. It's only human. I don't take issue with you having an alternate opinion and not being happy with Green Day's choice(s).

But I do think you are devaluing some of my and others' counterpoints. You claim that Green Day is only marketing to younger audiences. As a few people including myself pointed out that statement is incorrect. Hence the Good Morning America appearance, for example. You have some factual evidence, but you're ignoring the factual support to the contrary. Your opinions are not sufficiently backed up with accurate evidence. We have been providing information to help you see the error in your argument.

If, after fairly weighing your claims with the facts we have put forth, you still are not happy with everything, that's your prerogative. However, I am annoyed that you can't accept what we are saying as factual. No, Green Day is not marketing exclusively to teenagers. With that in mind, since that was your main issue, why are you still upset?

I'm not trying to attack you. I just want you to fairly acknowledge our counter evidence.

[Hermione]

Attention fandom: It is possible and healthier to be a supportive fan while disagreeing with some things the band does. Defending my position on a specific topic on a specific forum when trolls target me DOES NOT make me a negative person towards the band. These are valid concerns that are supported by facts.

Dwelling? Yeah, that can easily be turned around to say all of you are dwelling on the positive out of blind alleigance (sp?) while ignoring or making excuses for those valid concerns. I'm not dwelling on the negative. For the most part, I speak very positively about the band, and I've never said one negative thing about the music itself. Like I stated many times in this forum, I don't really care one way or the other about their music being in a Twilight movie. Jeez.

Other people defending their positions against your arguments DOES NOT make them trolls. You're not the only person using reason and/or facts here, all I've seen is perfectly well thought out arguments on both sides so I'm not sure where that accusation comes from.