COMETBUS #54 Green Day In China?!

[GDM]

This is all really interesting. I'm not in the least bit surprised by what Cometbus said about the fans. It's pretty well known how antagonistic and just generally jerky that guy is toward anyone he deems an outsider. I've never hated the guy, but I can understand why anyone would. I'm fairly neutral on his opinion. I do understand it even if I don't share it though.

My mind once boggled at the level of obsession and the money to feed it these fans possessed, but as I got to know some of them a bit I at least began to understand the financial and time side of it. The reason so many of these "superfans" are older is because many of the fans have only just reached the point in their lives when they can afford both the time and money to do this. Their kids are generally grown and their jobs are good. As many fans have argued, other people spend their later years on cruises, at casinos, ect. These ladies have simply chosen another recreational activity. I admit it's still an odd choice to me, but it's a valid choice and I'm no one to judge.

Someone pondered earlier in this thread, if the band could share Aaron's opinion in any way.... Considering what they name their live album (a name created by older female superfans) I doubt it. I used to wonder if they were at all creeped out by it, but after they chose an album title that was a tribute to those superfans there's no way. Green Day loves you guys, who gives a shit what their bitter friend thinks about you.

Wow... I love you.

And uh.. not in that way... uh... you know what I mean. That was really well put.

[Nova-Caine]

Wow... I love you.

And uh.. not in that way... uh... you know what I mean. That was really well put.

eerie stalker...........

[Bastard of 1967]

One thing you might not know when you are 17 (and I didn't either, of course) is that by the time you are 40, you sometimes need a little escape from those kids and responsibilities.

I like where you're going with that line of thought, Dorie -- it didn't quite end up where I thought it would. I was thinking of something important that's related to it but...just...hasn't been said yet...so let me try to take us there (and to a few other places along the way).

Anyway...my focus here is on the escape concept and the sense of community. I'm sure that escape probably exists to one degree or another among any band's hard-core fans, but I've found it to be overwhelmingly evident and hit-you-upside-the-head present with Green Day in a way that just doesn't exist -- or at least certainly nowhere near to the same extent -- with other live acts. Billie, Mike, Tre, Jason, Jason, and on this most recent tour, Jeff, have a command of the crowd, an interaction with that crowd, exceptional musical talent, a synergistic relationship with each other, and maybe most importantly a comfort in their own skin and sheer delight in what they're doing, that infects the entire arena as it varyingly oozes and explodes from them as the show progresses. You see it in their faces, you hear it in their voices, you feel it in their actions. The escape, the energy, you feel during their concerts (or wherever you happen to run into any of them), and what I can only describe as the afterglow that you carry home with you when it's over, is quite literally unlike anything else I've ever experienced at any live act by anyone else. You experience it once, and it becomes like a drug...you want to enjoy it again and again whenever an opportunity comes along to do so, and you'll willingly undertake some financial sacrifices if that's what it takes to get you back there again.

I feel this is *especially* true if you're one of the same generation as the bandmates, precisely because it's such an incredible break from your daily grind...your work, your home responsibilities, the kids, and all that. Billie, Mike, and Tre are all in relationships of one form or another, they all have families, and we're in that sense as much "like them" as I guess we ever could be, and they're writing about so much of what we're "all in the same boat" and dealing with in life. This is the one key piece that, maybe because of Aaron's own life circumstances and his current place in life? I think he's completely missed in trying to understand for himself what motivates someone to follow the band around the way the middle-aged "superfans" he observed do. It also seems to me that there are more than a few people who hang out on GDC that have trouble understanding that as well.

Anyway, I suppose the sacrifices are easier to make if you happen to have a trust fund backing you up, but simple saving and planning carefully (in other words, behaving like a responsible grown-up) will mean that you don't *need* to have one in order to get your Green Day fix in. To those fortunate enough to be able to follow the band around on a tour, or see AIOB a few times, and still manage to balance the rest of their life responsibliities with it, I say: kudos and congratulations, and I hope I'll be able to join in the fun with you at more events next time. Standing on the sidelines like Aaron seems to be, thumbing his nose and grouching at the superfans, is like the proverbial fox staring at the sour grapes while grumbling "you stalkers all just suck." It's built on uncontrolled jealousy. It accomplishes nothing, hurts a few feelings, and strikes me as a very childish and immature way of dealing with one's own envy.

Beyond that, I think that at Green Day shows, AIOB shows, concerts generally, the highway, and life in general, your in-your-face assholes are going to be your in-your-face assholes. Some of them will have trust funds, some of them will not. Some of them (maybe many of them) might have had a little too much to drink, or just aren't self-aware enough to realize how their actions are affecting others' enjoyment. Some of them just plain don't care. And maybe some of them will put their thoughts in writing from time to time. But to generalize this sort of unpleasant behavior as being the exclusive domain of middle-aged female superfans and fatherless teens at Green Day concerts both misses the real issues entirely and also takes a huge and unnecessary dig at some of the band's most faithful and longest-lasting fans. And, yeah, our feathers are going to get ruffled and we're going to stick up for each other. That's what communities do when someone gets hurt.

[GDM]

Michael... one thing that Abbey and I didn't talk about... and since you mention Jason, Jason, and Jeff... I'll mention it here... Cometbus said that the creepiest of Green Day fans were the ones who actually knew the names of the "Big Three"... Jason White, Jason Freese and Jeff Matika.

So... that opens this conversation up even more to almost everyone on this forum... cause we all know the names of the Big Three. And I guess that means we are creepiest fans around...

[IscoredWaddlesgoals]

Are we ready ? If you need a wee/your medication, go now. You don't want to lose your place in the middle of this beast. Apologies for any weird spelling/spacing, I'm on my phone.

Firstly, Aaron's involvement in Pinhead Gunpowder. To be fair, he doesn't actually mention this (at least as far as I know) in the 'zine, but it's worth mentioning here. If he feels that Green Day/Billie Joe fans shouldn't be turning up to their gigs, don't do any. Honestly. Play weddings, for friends or literally in garages. But if they're going to open

venues to the paying public, tough. I seem to recall (correct

me if I'm wrong) that it's been mentioned on the official Green Day site so to be annoyed that the 'wrong' sort of person is turning up is naive in the extreme. And there's definitely no excuse for pushing people out the way.

Secondly, as I've said before do Aaron and Larry think that Green Day are unique in attracting devoted fans that follow them across the world ? I regularly read the Popjustice

forums and if he thinks this is bad, they should read a

1,000 + page long Girls Aloud thread. The fact they've split

has not stopped people discussing 10 year old limited

edition B-Sides. The problem (if you want to call it that) is as old as rock & roll itself.

Thirdly, some of the most sycophantic (for want of a better word) stories or comments in the past have come from Larry. Ifind it hugely ironic that he accepts friend requests

from total strangers on FB that he must know have only

heard of him through Green Day. He could refuse these

and never mention a word about them, but he doesn't. The

exact same people he discusses in his last blog are the

ones that feed his ego. You live by the sword, you die by it.

Fourthly (is that a word ? It is now) Aaron is entitled to write what he likes and describe what he sees. He's not answering to a massive publisher and appears to do this by himself,pretty much for himself. Having said that, I don't know what people he doesn't even know spending their money on what they like has got to do with him. Something to think about on his next free flight perhaps. Also, does he think Green Day should be good enough to attract people

to come to one gig but not good enough for them to keep coming back ?

Lastly (you've made it ! Hooray !) I do actually cringe a little

bit at the thought of people queueing up for hours outside half empty (and probably bewildered) venues. Maybe people don't mean to come across like it, but sometimes there is a sense of entitlement about seeing intimate gigs or premieres. They seem to be things to be ticked off a list

rather than enjoyed as a special occasion. Remember - the band aren't your friends and they don't owe you anything. Give everyone a chance (although I don't think things like

the Idiot Club help). If you think the description if 'stalker' applies to you or it's hit a nerve, it's probably true. They're

humans in a band, not Gods.

[Nova-Caine]

Are we ready ? If you need a wee/your medication, go now. You don't want to lose your place in the middle of this beast. Apologies for any weird spelling/spacing, I'm on my phone.

Firstly, Aaron's involvement in Pinhead Gunpowder. To be fair, he doesn't actually mention this (at least as far as I know) in the 'zine, but it's worth mentioning here. If he feels that Green Day/Billie Joe fans shouldn't be turning up to their gigs, don't do any. Honestly. Play weddings, for friends or literally in garages. But if they're going to open

venues to the paying public, tough. I seem to recall (correct

me if I'm wrong) that it's been mentioned on the official Green Day site so to be annoyed that the 'wrong' sort of person is turning up is naive in the extreme. And there's definitely no excuse for pushing people out the way.

Secondly, as I've said before do Aaron and Larry think that Green Day are unique in attracting devoted fans that follow them across the world ? I regularly read the Popjustice

forums and if he thinks this is bad, they should read a

1,000 + page long Girls Aloud thread. The fact they've split

has not stopped people discussing 10 year old limited

edition B-Sides. The problem (if you want to call it that) is as old as rock & roll itself.

Thirdly, some of the most sycophantic (for want of a better word) stories or comments in the past have come from Larry. Ifind it hugely ironic that he accepts friend requests

from total strangers on FB that he must know have only

heard of him through Green Day. He could refuse these

and never mention a word about them, but he doesn't. The

exact same people he discusses in his last blog are the

ones that feed his ego. You live by the sword, you die by it.

Fourthly (is that a word ? It is now) Aaron is entitled to write what he likes and describe what he sees. He's not answering to a massive publisher and appears to do this by himself,pretty much for himself. Having said that, I don't know what people he doesn't even know spending their money on what they like has got to do with him. Something to think about on his next free flight perhaps. Also, does he think Green Day should be good enough to attract people

to come to one gig but not good enough for them to keep coming back ?

Lastly (you've made it ! Hooray !) I do actually cringe a little

bit at the thought of people queueing up for hours outside half empty (and probably bewildered) venues. Maybe people don't mean to come across like it, but sometimes there is a sense of entitlement about seeing intimate gigs or premieres. They seem to be things to be ticked off a list

rather than enjoyed as a special occasion. Remember - the band aren't your friends and they don't owe you anything. Give everyone a chance (although I don't think things like

the Idiot Club help). If you think the description if 'stalker' applies to you or it's hit a nerve, it's probably true. They're

humans in a band, not Gods.

I have no idea if Fourthly is a word but i love this, great read and worth the loo trip and medication

x

[MikeCm]

I'm glad Aaron wrote this he's a good guy.

I met Aaron years ago at abc no rio when he was playing in Crybaby Macarthur.

We speak every now & then and he's always seemed like a nice dude.

Anyone who is complaining has the right to because it's their opinion but seriously get over yourselves.

[Lorraine.]

Are we ready ? If you need a wee/your medication, go now. You don't want to lose your place in the middle of this beast. Apologies for any weird spelling/spacing, I'm on my phone.

Firstly, Aaron's involvement in Pinhead Gunpowder. To be fair, he doesn't actually mention this (at least as far as I know) in the 'zine, but it's worth mentioning here. If he feels that Green Day/Billie Joe fans shouldn't be turning up to their gigs, don't do any. Honestly. Play weddings, for friends or literally in garages. But if they're going to open

venues to the paying public, tough. I seem to recall (correct

me if I'm wrong) that it's been mentioned on the official Green Day site so to be annoyed that the 'wrong' sort of person is turning up is naive in the extreme. And there's definitely no excuse for pushing people out the way.

I don't agree with that. If Pinhead wants to play a goddamn show, let them. I don't think they should be singled out to weddings or a practice space just cause Aaron gets ticked off with Green Day fans. If they wanna do normal Gilman gigs, they have every right to. Of course he's going to complain about it, I would too. But, just cause he gets ticked off about some of the fans doesn't mean they should condense their venue space to have a "free Green Day fan zone". That's not exactly fair to the band.

This is all really interesting. I'm not in the least bit surprised by what Cometbus said about the fans. It's pretty well known how antagonistic and just generally jerky that guy is toward anyone he deems an outsider. I've never hated the guy, but I can understand why anyone would. I'm fairly neutral on his opinion. I do understand it even if I don't share it though.

My mind once boggled at the level of obsession and the money to feed it these fans possessed, but as I got to know some of them a bit I at least began to understand the financial and time side of it. The reason so many of these "superfans" are older is because many of the fans have only just reached the point in their lives when they can afford both the time and money to do this. Their kids are generally grown and their jobs are good. As many fans have argued, other people spend their later years on cruises, at casinos, ect. These ladies have simply chosen another recreational activity. I admit it's still an odd choice to me, but it's a valid choice and I'm no one to judge.

Someone pondered earlier in this thread, if the band could share Aaron's opinion in any way.... Considering what they name their live album (a name created by older female superfans) I doubt it. I used to wonder if they were at all creeped out by it, but after they chose an album title that was a tribute to those superfans there's no way. Green Day loves you guys, who gives a shit what their bitter friend thinks about you.

You know, I sort of understand how all of these older fans are traveling now. It makes sense and more power to them. But, what I'm still curious about are the kids that are still in high school. Those are the ones that confuse me.

[Bastard of 1967]

Michael... one thing that Abbey and I didn't talk about... and since you mention Jason, Jason, and Jeff... I'll mention it here... Cometbus said that the creepiest of Green Day fans were the ones who actually knew the names of the "Big Three"... Jason White, Jason Freese and Jeff Matika.

Man, somebody has some SERIOUS issues and I don't think it's any of us.

[Nova-Caine]

Man, somebody has some SERIOUS issues and I don't think it's any of us.

I mean its not like that lil bloke with the mic introduces them every show is it?

[Katarina.]

I mean its not like that lil bloke with the mic introduces them every show is it?

Oh, that dude. It's not like we know the dude who plays piano and saxophone is on many pornographic websites.. What's his name again? I thought I heard the lil bloke say Jason?

[GDM]

I'm glad Aaron wrote this he's a good guy.

I met Aaron years ago at abc no rio when he was playing in Crybaby Macarthur.

We speak every now & then and he's always seemed like a nice dude.

Anyone who is complaining has the right to because it's their opinion but seriously get over yourselves.

Mike... when I see you, I'm going to slap you... because Larry is the one who is harping on this... we're just talking about it.

Why does everyone treat Aaron like a God that can't be criticized? It's the same as with Green Day... people can have criticisms of them also.

[Bastard of 1967]

Thirdly, some of the most sycophantic (for want of a better word) stories or comments in the past have come from Larry. Ifind it hugely ironic that he accepts friend requests

from total strangers on FB that he must know have only

heard of him through Green Day. He could refuse these

and never mention a word about them, but he doesn't. The

exact same people he discusses in his last blog are the

ones that feed his ego. You live by the sword, you die by it.

Great post.... I do want to comment on your third point concerning Larry. Of course I only found out about him through my exposure to Things Ancillary To Green Day, but I continue to follow his blog postings and his tweets because I find him to be worthy of some time, attention, and respect. I don't always agree with everything he writes and I'm to the right of his views on the political spectrum, but he's actually one of the best private bloggers I've had the pleasure to read, he's had inside experience with the music industry in general and Green Day in particular that is unique and unparalleled, he has a great analytical approach that appeals a lot to my own, and most importantly he has a genuine curiosity about and deep interest in the thoughts and views of others around him. I suspect that part of that's just his innate personality and his own life experience, and another part of it grew out of some of his own past struggles...one thing's for sure, he's had a hell of a life. But anyway, he examines those views, collects them, and writes about them....and I believe that explains a lot about why he's active on Twitter and open to friending strangers on his Facebook -- these are vehicles for meeting and sharing ideas with people and he's smart to make use of them.

My key point is that his focus is almost always *outward* -- getting inside the thoughts, motivations, and ideas of others, and for the year or so I've been following him, my experience has been that he treats those opinions with a good deal of respect. Only when he's talking about himself is he his own worst critic. In other words, he seems to be genuinely wise and humble. That doesn't mean he doesn't screw up or make mistakes from time to time, it just means that typically he's careful with his words and usually seems to write from the heart. He's also entitled (as are we) to come to the aid of a friend who he feels, rightly or wrongly, is under attack.

To me, he seemed to be doing his best to see and understand both points of view -- those of the well-intended fans, as well as what was legitimate about his friend's concerns about some concertgoers. And I think that's exactly what distinguishes his writing style from Aaron's -- where Larry tries to get inside *your* head and glean what perspective he can from it, Aaron stands on the outside, spitting venom and telling you how bad you make him feel. A lot of folks here will be too young to remember Andy Rooney from CBS' "60 minutes", but he was a lot like that too -- and that nasalish "nowwww let meeee tell you what really annooyyyyyyyyyyze me" diatribe style he used was equally put-offish to a lot of us, myself included.

[farley drexel hatcher]

Michael... one thing that Abbey and I didn't talk about... and since you mention Jason, Jason, and Jeff... I'll mention it here... Cometbus said that the creepiest of Green Day fans were the ones who actually knew the names of the "Big Three"... Jason White, Jason Freese and Jeff Matika.

So... that opens this conversation up even more to almost everyone on this forum... cause we all know the names of the Big Three. And I guess that means we are creepiest fans around...

Woah, well, that makes no sense. Isn't Jason in Pinhead Gunpowder? So knowing the name of someone in a band you like is considered creepy? For one thing, Billie Joe actually introduces them on stage, and for another, it's good manners! It'd be rude to be uninterested in people on stage, contributing to the show that's going on.

[Abbey.]

I'm glad Aaron wrote this he's a good guy.

I met Aaron years ago at abc no rio when he was playing in Crybaby Macarthur.

We speak every now & then and he's always seemed like a nice dude.

Anyone who is complaining has the right to because it's their opinion but seriously get over yourselves.

Seriously Michael? Dont make me call you out on your shit here.

[IscoredWaddlesgoals]

Great post.... I do want to comment on your third point concerning Larry. Of course I only found out about him through my exposure to Things Ancillary To Green Day, but I continue to follow his blog postings and his tweets because I find him to be worthy of some time, attention, and respect. I don't always agree with everything he writes and I'm to the right of his views on the political spectrum,

but he's actually one of the best private bloggers I've had

the pleasure to read, he's had inside experience with the

music industry in general and Green Day in particular that

is unique and unparalleled, he has a great analytical

approach that appeals a lot to my own, and most

importantly he has a genuine curiosity about and deep

interest in the thoughts and views of others around him. I

suspect that part of that's just his innate personality and his

own life experience, and another part of it grew out of

some of his own past struggles...one thing's for sure, he's

had a hell of a life. But anyway, he examines those views,

collects them, and writes about them....and I believe that

explains a lot about why he's active on Twitter and open to

friending strangers on his Facebook -- these are vehicles

for meeting and sharing ideas with people and he's smart

to make use of them.

My key point is that his focus is almost always *outward* -- getting inside the thoughts, motivations, and ideas of

others, and for the year or so I've been following him, my experience has been that he treats those opinions with a

good deal of respect. Only when he's talking about himself

is he his own worst critic. In other words, he seems to be

genuinely wise and humble. That doesn't mean he

doesn't screw up or make mistakes from time to time, it just

means that typically he's careful with his words and

usually seems to write from the heart. He's also entitled

(as are we) to come to the aid of a friend who he feels,

rightly or wrongly, is under attack.

To me, he seemed to be doing his best to see and

understand both points of view -- those of the well-

intended fans, as well as what was legitimate about his

friend's concerns about some concertgoers. And I think

that's exactly what distinguishes his writing style from

Aaron's -- where Larry tries to get inside *your* head and

glean what perspective he can from it, Aaron stands on the

outside, spitting venom and telling you how bad you make

him feel. A lot of folks here will be too young to remember

Andy Rooney from CBS' "60 minutes", but he was a lot like

that too -- and that nasalish "nowwww let meeee tell you

what really annooyyyyyyyyyyze me" diatribe style he used

was equally put-offish to a lot of us, myself included.

Thank you !

I think he has to tread a fine line between saying what he feels (which he is welcome to do of course) and coming across as a bit of a hypocrite. Besides, I went off him when he said he didn't want to visit Sheffield on the UK tour a couple of years ago.

[Nova-Caine]

Thank you !

I think he has to tread a fine line between saying what he feels (which he is welcome to do of course) and coming across as a bit of a hypocrite. Besides, I went off him when he said he didn't want to visit Sheffield on the UK tour a couple of years ago.

(off topic)

For some reason Sheffield often gets slagged by Muso's a friend of mine manages a band they've been trying to get a venue in Sheffield for 6 years, this band are well known but just get dicked about by promoters, Henry Rollins called it something like hell on earth or a grey depressing hell on earth and I can see why for a long time it was down and dreary.

[Bastard of 1967]

Thank you !

I think he has to tread a fine line between saying what he feels (which he is welcome to do of course) and coming across as a bit of a hypocrite. Besides, I went off him when he said he didn't want to visit Sheffield on the UK tour a couple of years ago.

Ha! Bet he thinks the local football team sucks or something.

[IscoredWaddlesgoals]

(off topic)

For some reason Sheffield often gets slagged by Muso's a friend of mine manages a band they've been trying to get a venue in Sheffield for 6 years, this band are well known but just get dicked about by promoters, Henry Rollins called it something like hell on earth or a grey depressing hell on earth and I can see why for a long time it was down and

dreary.

Really ? I always thought it had quite a good rep for nights out/live music. It's not like we haven't got venues.

I couldn't help but feel a bit disappointed when we were sat in the pub and saw the tour buses roll out not long after we did.

Ha! Bet he thinks the local football team sucks or something.

Them's fighting words !

[Bastard of 1967]

Them's fighting words !

Can't help it, I live in the Washington DC area where *every* pro team we have sucks. Just spreadin' the love, my good man!

[Lorraine.]

Can't help it, I live in the Washington DC area where *every* pro team we have sucks. Just spreadin' the love, my good man!

No way. I'm pretty sure Florida beats everyone. I mean, come on...the Dolphins? I think we have it pretty bad here.

[Jaymee!!]

This site has free international shipping

EDIT: Not free $9 standard, $13.50 priority and you have to have an order of $10 minimum. So overall it's about €14 if you ship standard, €17.30 priority.

Just ordered my copy, and I wasn't charged a shipping fee at all

[GDM]

Let's calm down. Breathe. Deep. Altogether now! Aahhhh....

This is just a little piece of writing out of what is otherwise a brilliant piece. Seriously!

Let's just take a step back cause this is making my life hurt right now. I actually yelled at Chickenman over text.

I'm so sad right now.

Sigh.

Fuck it. We know Green Day likes us.

We like ourselves.

Who cares about anyone else?

Haha, though I have to say, this feels a bit like the Peru thread a while ago, lol. hahaha...

Just ordered my copy, and I wasn't charged a shipping fee at all

If that is the Atomic Book site, they are going to email you a confirmation with the cost of shipping!

[MikeCm]

Everyone on here makes Aaron sound like a jerk, I've read it in several threads.

He's just as important and meaningful to Green Day as Billie, Mike and Tre.

So for those of you who want to make him sound like an elitist jerk your entitled to an opinion like he is but seriously if most of you were familiar with him then you'd know why he'd write things like this.

[GDM]

Everyone on here makes Aaron sound like a jerk, I've read it in several threads.

He's just as important and meaningful to Green Day as Billie, Mike and Tre.

So for those of you who want to make him sound like an elitist jerk your entitled to an opinion like he is but seriously if most of you were familiar with him then you'd know why he'd write things like this.

Mike... you do realize how elitist your comment sounds, yes?