AlissaGoesRAWR Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Well, I finally finished this... I read it in a few chunks, because it was a bit too long to get through in one sitting. I thought it started off great and then kind of dragged by the end of it, mainly because I wasn't too interested in his touristy descriptions of the different places they visited, the self-loathing, and generally just anything that wasn't explicitly Green Day related. Overall though, I really didn't find any of it "offensive" at all. Were people actually upset by this? What parts? I kept waiting to be offended and it didn't happen. The only thing I found just a little strange was his obvious issue with Green Day fans kissing Billie Joe on stage, which I thought was a slightly over the top reaction possibly fueled by some sort of ill-placed jealousy. I highly doubt anyone in a functioning relationship would get into a fight if their significant other found a celebrity attractive or kissed them if they happened to get on stage... But overall, I found most of his observations, especially those about Green Day fans, to be rather spot-on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermione Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Well, I finally finished this... I read it in a few chunks, because it was a bit too long to get through in one sitting. I thought it started off great and then kind of dragged by the end of it, mainly because I wasn't too interested in his touristy descriptions of the different places they visited, the self-loathing, and generally just anything that wasn't explicitly Green Day related. Overall though, I really didn't find any of it "offensive" at all. Were people actually upset by this? What parts? I kept waiting to be offended and it didn't happen. The only thing I found just a little strange was his obvious issue with Green Day fans kissing Billie Joe on stage, which I thought was a slightly over the top reaction possibly fueled by some sort of ill-placed jealousy. I highly doubt anyone in a functioning relationship would get into a fight if their significant other found a celebrity attractive or kissed them if they happened to get on stage... But overall, I found most of his observations, especially those about Green Day fans, to be rather spot-on. Nah I don't think anyone found anything Aaron wrote offensive, the main disagreement was just about his over the top reaction to Billie kissing fans like you said, and to some extent his over the top reaction to fans in general, but I don't recall anyone being angry about it or anything. People were offended by Tre cruelly torturing an octopus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerjeezus Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Nah I don't think anyone found anything Aaron wrote offensive, the main disagreement was just about his over the top reaction to Billie kissing fans like you said, and to some extent his over the top reaction to fans in general, but I don't recall anyone being angry about it or anything. People were offended by Tre cruelly torturing an octopus.I think his over the top reaction to fans was meant to be a hyperbole. He likened the fans on the train station to zombies and kept describing them as crazy to illustrate how silly they are. The incident with octupus and his descriptions of Kevin Preston's behaviour were most disturbing parts. Aaron also criticised Billie for being defensive and the way he responds to criticism in general. It's interesting almost nobody mentioned this yet. Aaron seemed pretty disappointed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermione Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 I think his over the top reaction to fans was meant to be a hyperbole. He likened the fans on the train station to zombies and kept describing them as crazy to illustrate how silly they are. The incident with octupus and his descriptions of Kevin Preston's behaviour were most disturbing parts. Aaron also criticised Billie for being defensive and the way he responds to criticism in general. It's interesting almost nobody mentioned this yet. Aaron seemed pretty disappointed. One thing was a year or so before this came out Pinhead Gunpowder played a show at Gilman to raise money for cancer treatment for a friend of Aaron's, and he was reportedly involved in fans (mostly girls) who'd been queuing all day and so were at the front near the stage being shoved and kicked back to make room for his friends, as well as generally showing contempt towards those he believed to be there to see Billie. That added to all his descriptions of fans in the zine gave the impression a lot of the contempt was genuine. I think it probably is even though some of it is hyperbole, and some is based on some incorrect assumptions such as it's only spoilt trust fund kids travelling to see several shows on a tour or that it's meant as some kind of sleazy sexual thing when Billie kisses people etc. Just his impression/opinion though so fair enough he expressed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hero_Of_The_Hour Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 One thing was around the time this came out Pinhead Gunpowder played a show at Gilman to raise money for cancer treatment for a friend of Aaron's, and he was reportedly involved in fans (mostly girls) who'd been queuing all day and so were at the front near the stage being shoved and kicked back to make room for his friends, as well as generally showing contempt towards those he believed to be there to see Billie. That added to all his descriptions of fans in the zine gave the impression a lot of the contempt was genuine. I think it probably is even though some of it is hyperbole, and some is based on some incorrect assumptions such as it's only spoilt trust fund kids travelling to see several shows on a tour or that it's meant as some kind of sleazy sexual thing when Billie kisses people etc. Just his impression/opinion though so fair enough he expressed it. A lot of fans were downright irate when they read Aaron's book back in 2011. The reaction was ridiculous. Some fans took his criticism of certain fan types so personally it was as though he had insulted their very essence (which probably says a lot about those individuals lol). He didn't however insult all their fans and if those who were so insulted hadn't gotten so obsessed with a few lines would have noticed all his paragraphes about being in the pits with fans singing along and dancing and having fun just like the rest of us. Those who did get insulted by his comments went psycho though and took to twitter, facebook and basically everywhere else possible and trashed him and attacked Larry Livermore for defending him and demanded Larry answer if Green Day agreed with Aaron etc. All kinds of nutcase stuff. It went on for ages. These (mostly) girls were so determined to trash Aaron they wrote all kinds of crap about him online. The same people probably never read a single book by him before and have no clue of his strong feminism and ridiculous close relationship with Billie yet they accused him of hating women and then claimed Billie hated him. That shit made them feel better I'm sure. These same girls started those stupid rumors about Gilman St gig. Funny how the well balanced "normal" girls in the front (eg Nikki Lee) never once complained about a thing that night yet one particular girl (who happens to have started a war with Larry Livermore because he defended Aaron) started that rumor and it became gospel. Bullshit. Also Aaron never suggested Billie was sleazy but rather that one doesn't need to kiss fans to be a sex symbol and if anything it removes that "unattainable" aspect. He explained that it worked that way for them with Joey Ramone and it makes sense imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Green Day fans are nuts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hero_Of_The_Hour Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Green Day fans are nuts This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermione Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 A lot of fans were downright irate when they read Aaron's book back in 2011. The reaction was ridiculous. Some fans took his criticism of certain fan types so personally it was as though he had insulted their very essence (which probably says a lot about those individuals lol). He didn't however insult all their fans and if those who were so insulted hadn't gotten so obsessed with a few lines would have noticed all his paragraphes about being in the pits with fans singing along and dancing and having fun just like the rest of us. Those who did get insulted by his comments went psycho though and took to twitter, facebook and basically everywhere else possible and trashed him and attacked Larry Livermore for defending him and demanded Larry answer if Green Day agreed with Aaron etc. All kinds of nutcase stuff. It went on for ages. These (mostly) girls were so determined to trash Aaron they wrote all kinds of crap about him online. The same people probably never read a single book by him before and have no clue of his strong feminism and ridiculous close relationship with Billie yet they accused him of hating women and then claimed Billie hated him. That shit made them feel better I'm sure. These same girls started those stupid rumors about Gilman St gig. Funny how the well balanced "normal" girls in the front (eg Nikki Lee) never once complained about a thing that night yet one particular girl (who happens to have started a war with Larry Livermore because he defended Aaron) started that rumor and it became gospel. Bullshit. Also Aaron never suggested Billie was sleazy but rather that one doesn't need to kiss fans to be a sex symbol and if anything it removes that "unattainable" aspect. He explained that it worked that way for them with Joey Ramone and it makes sense imo. Yeah maybe some people made a big deal out of it, I was mostly just thinking of on here and can't remember well enough. I don't think the things about how Aaron acted at that show were just rumours though, I know several people who witnessed it. About the kissing thing, the fact that he was even talking about being an "unattainable sex symbol" is my point. When Billie pulls a fan on stage and kisses them it isn't anything to do with being a sex symbol, it's a friendly kiss rather than sexual/sleazy/romantic or whatever you want to call it, hence why he'll happily kiss anyone of any age, gender etc on the lips when he pulls them up, even his own son . I think maybe it happened to be that on that leg of the tour it was only girls that got kissed so it gave Aaron a different impression of what it's about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hero_Of_The_Hour Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Yeah maybe some people made a big deal out of it, I was mostly just thinking of on here and can't remember well enough. About the kissing thing, the fact that he was even talking about being an "unattainable sex symbol" is my point. When Billie pulls a fan on stage and kisses them it isn't anything to do with being a sex symbol, it's a friendly kiss rather than sexual/sleazy/romantic or whatever you want to call it, hence why he'll happily kiss anyone of any age, gender etc on the lips when he pulls them up, even his own son . I think maybe it happened to be that on that leg of the tour it was only girls that got kissed so it gave Aaron a different impression of what it's about. Ok. Lets be honest here Billie is a sex symbol. It's tedious that no matter what is being discussed (new song, new gig or potential breakup lol) his appearance is always priority in the conversation It's not just female fans who view him as a sex symbol though he has a shit tonne of male fans who see him as a sex symbol too. Aaron is fully aware of this. He didn't just join them for the brief period in Asia as described in this book. He is always heading out on tour briefly with them. Obviously he toured most of their early tours with them even around Dookie time but reading one of his recent books he mentioned being with them for a week during AI tour. Seems he meets up with them a lot more than mentioned in this book. He also is often photographed at their gigs by fans. My point is I'm sure over the years he has seen a huge variety of fans hauled onstage by Billie. Usually he picks guys as we know but it doesn't change the fact that most fans freak out at the idea of kissing Billie and it's not because it would be like "kissing their friend". The fangirl thread on here would prove Aaron's point in spades lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermione Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Ok. Lets be honest here Billie is a sex symbol. It's tedious that no matter what is being discussed (new song, new gig or potential breakup lol) his appearance is always priority in the conversation It's not just female fans who view him as a sex symbol though he has a shit tonne of male fans who see him as a sex symbol too. Aaron is fully aware of this. He didn't just join them for the brief period in Asia as described in this book. He is always heading out on tour briefly with them. Obviously he toured most of their early tours with them even around Dookie time but reading one of his recent books he mentioned being with them for a week during AI tour. Seems he meets up with them a lot more than mentioned in this book. He also is often photographed at their gigs by fans. My point is I'm sure over the years he has seen a huge variety of fans hauled onstage by Billie. Usually he picks guys as we know but it doesn't change the fact that most fans freak out at the idea of kissing Billie and it's not because it would be like "kissing their friend". The fangirl thread on here would prove Aaron's point in spades lol. Totally agree he is a sex symbol and that some fans getting on stage would want to kiss him for that reason. But I don't think that's any part of Billie's motive for doing it. It's not a display like "look at me the rockstar sex symbol giving this fangirl a kiss" , it's more like "hey we're both at this show and it's awesome, give us a kiss!" . Seems like Aaron didn't see that side of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dewik Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 hey Isabel, just curious, were you actually onstage with Billie as one time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerjeezus Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Well, as a fan(girl) I see him as a sex symbol, but if he kissed me, I don't think it would mean that much to me. My attraction to him is aesthetic, there isn't an emotional bond except the idol/fan one. I'm convinced a lot of fans feel the same. I contribute to the fangirls thread, but it doesn't mean his appearance is excessively important for me. It's more of a nice bonus and if I start talking about somewhere else, it's just because it's a fun topic to talk about for me. Aaron's problem is that he tends to see the world in black and white and is often somewhat rigid. That's common among punks though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 I think it probably is even though some of it is hyperbole, and some is based on some incorrect assumptions such as it's only spoilt trust fund kids travelling to see several shows on a tour While that's a slight exaggeration there is a sizeable chunk of "hardcore" Green Day fans who fit this description and treat their attendance of small shows as a god given status symbol to brag about on Facebook. I actually happened to be stuck in front of one of them at the HOB show and his "minder" became quite irate when I told them to go fuck themselves after they spent the entirety of Jesse Malin's set trying to shove past me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerjeezus Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 While that's a slight exaggeration there is a sizeable chunk of the "hardcore" Green Day fans who fit this description and treat their attendance of small shows as a god given status symbol. I actually happened to be stuck in front of one of them at the HOB show and his "minder" became quite irate when I told them to fuck off after they spent the entirety of Jesse Malin's set trying to shove past me.He certainly has a point there, but I think the way he generalises his view of female fans is wrong. (creepy wackos who want to fuck BJ, poor guys who married them - sure there are some, but they're a minority. No need to get worked up the way Aaron seems to.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlissaGoesRAWR Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 See, I really don't think his descriptions are an exaggeration at all. Anyone who's been to a Green Day show can attest to that. I am definitely one of those crazy fans he describes, filing in like a zombie-like deer in headlights, desperately seeking a glimpse of the band, ogling Billie Joe like a piece of meat, etc. I'm fairly convinced many people who say they don't act like that at a show are lying to themselves. I acknowledge this band does ridiculous things to me, and although I wouldn't go as far as to stalk them or invade their personal lives, when I'm at a show, I'm a completely different person. I'm not too proud to admit that or get offended by a tongue-in-cheek description of that behavior. Also, describing Billie Joe as defensive, or even the over-the-top descriptions of Tre, really are just an objective portrait of a person. They're not meant to be overly critical or offensive, because nobody's perfect. Everyone has poor qualities. I'm sure Aaron wasn't writing this with the intention of it being a slam piece, which is evident by the chapter where he talks about the writing process. He clearly put a lot of thought into it and wanted it to be honest, but well-received by the band. Even if that wasn't the end process, at least he was true to himself as a writer. Writing about yourself or people you care about is extremely difficult. And people were seriously offended by the octopus thing? FFS. That's food in Japan, is it not? It's no different than us boiling lobsters alive or eating veal or other animals... And finally, maybe I wasn't that offended because I tend to have the same jaded view of this fandom as he does. GDC is just a tiny, tiny fraction of the fans as a whole and honestly, as scary as it sounds, we're the normal ones. The freaks I saw in Cleveland, like the ones Ceadagh described, seriously made me embarrassed to be associated with them. They're the type that would get offended and take to Twitter bashing Aaron for an objective piece of writing, drag Larry Livermore into it like a bunch of nutcases. They're the type who would blow their life savings just to brag that they were at a one-off show in Cleveland and were one of only 1,200 people who could get tickets. I consider people who follow the band around the world a bunch of trust fund babies too, because I don't understand how someone has no responsibilities and enough money to just take months off work and stalk four 40-year-olds who don't even know they exist. Sure, the occasional Green Day splurge is understandable, but where's the fun if it becomes routine? So, I guess overall I enjoyed the piece, but I didn't find it as interesting as I expected. It started strong but tapered off for me and lost my interest, but maybe it's just difficult for something to keep my focus that long anymore. I didn't find anything offensive — just a few things a bit off, like the kissing rant — and I think it was a good, genuine insight into some memories of the band's events during its earlier years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hero_Of_The_Hour Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 He certainly has a point there, but I think the way he generalises his view of female fans is wrong. (creepy wackos who want to fuck BJ, poor guys who married them - sure there are some, but they're a minority. No need to get worked up the way Aaron seems to.) Again though he didn't generalise female fans as being creepy wackos who wanted to fuck Billie he bitched about the female fans who are creepy wackos and want to fuck Billie! As a female fan I wasn't remotely offended as I'm not a creepy wacko and don't want to fuck Billie Aaron was pissed off at them and who knows why they annoyed him as much as they did (hell they annoy me too to an extent but I'm sure Aaron has his reasons) but he toured with the band a lot and obviously was sick of certain fans objectifying Billie or whatever he sees a lot and decided to say it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermione Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 And people were seriously offended by the octopus thing? FFS. That's food in Japan, is it not? It's no different than us boiling lobsters alive or eating veal or other animals... I think biting a chunk out of an animal's head while it's still alive, intending to carry on doing it while it slowly dies in intense pain and distress, is disgustingly cruel behaviour whichever way you look at it. Like, I can't even imagine thinking that would be a funny thing to do. The only saving graces I found in the description were that at least no one else who was there seemed to be amused by it, and at least its suffering was cut short when it fought back. Bit of a difference between killing an animal for food as quickly and humanely as you can and torturing an animal to death for fun, naturally I was shocked by that and it lowered my opinion of Tre considerably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hero_Of_The_Hour Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 I think biting a chunk out of an animal's head while it's still alive, intending to carry on doing it while it slowly dies in intense pain and distress, is disgustingly cruel behaviour whichever way you look at it. Like, I can't even imagine thinking that would be a funny thing to do. The only saving graces I found in the description were that at least no one else who was there seemed to be amused by it, and at least its suffering was cut sort when it fought back. Bit of a difference between killing an animal for food as quickly and humanely as you can and torturing an animal to death for fun, naturally I was shocked by that and it lowered my opinion of Tre considerably. Completely. I was disgusted by this. Tre came off as a total dick after reading this. This was horrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermione Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Completely. I was disgusted by this. Tre came off as a total dick after reading this. This was horrible. Agreed. I should actually stop reading/posting about it, I hate thinking about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unextraordinarygirl Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Reading that book made me feel weird. Like angry and disappointed. Not sure what I was expecting but to me it made Aaron come off as a douche bag and not a nice person. His rants in the middle to end of the book got long and boring so I ended up slimming the book looking for GD references. There was some good stuff in there about GD that I liked learning but it wasn't a very good book overall. The story about Tre with the octopus as well as some of his other behavior described in the book made me think a lot less of him. Im sure he's more mature now but in his younger days he was scary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khaleesi. Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 i knew you saved that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khaleesi. Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 I'm not even slightly in the business of fucking around when screenshot-worthy moments happen! Just think about all the dirt I have on you teeheehee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 I pretty much agree with everything Aaron says. He's a sensible guy. All I saw were observations. the same observations that I've made about Green Day fans too He's just being honest, I guess some people don't like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlissaGoesRAWR Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 I think biting a chunk out of an animal's head while it's still alive, intending to carry on doing it while it slowly dies in intense pain and distress, is disgustingly cruel behaviour whichever way you look at it. Like, I can't even imagine thinking that would be a funny thing to do. The only saving graces I found in the description were that at least no one else who was there seemed to be amused by it, and at least its suffering was cut short when it fought back. Bit of a difference between killing an animal for food as quickly and humanely as you can and torturing an animal to death for fun, naturally I was shocked by that and it lowered my opinion of Tre considerably. You truthfully believe the meat people eat is killed humanely? I'm not vegetarian by any means, but I'm also not that naive. I'm not even a big Tre fan either. Maybe I missed the part where he was just doing it for fun? If I recall correctly, wasn't he actually trying to eat the thing, and just failed miserably? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNICORN VOMIT Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 You truthfully believe the meat people eat is killed humanely? This is why I am vegetarian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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