Hermione Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 Interesting notion - 'inferiors' is judgemental in itself. I would just go with 'don't judge a man - get on with your own shit'. I think in this case inferiors means animals who can't defend themselves against a human who has superior strength and intelligence. I have no problem judging someone for choosing to treat animals that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J'net Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 Ahh that's my bad - I always forget that when I got my new email account, I didn't update Paypal with it, and I always forget to check that account now. But I checked it and the email is there thanks! It seems like forever since I ordered it (though it's not), I was getting a bit worried it'd been sent and gotten lost. It seems our postal service gets slower and slower these days Well, I was sure I sent yours because I put little hearts on it when I saw your name! I've really enjoyed sending these out. Now and then I recognize someone I know (though I'm sure many went by without me noticing the names). It makes me feel all warm and fuzzy and happy to know I'm sending one to someone whose face I can imagine lighting up when they receive it . So please do let me know when it arrives. I have no idea how long the international ones will take. It seems quite random from some of the emails I've received. I think in this case inferiors means animals who can't defend themselves against a human who has superior strength and intelligence. I have no problem judging someone for choosing to treat animals that way. And I have to agree with you on that one. It's not so much "judging" as figuring out how I feel about someone. And I can't feel good about that incident. There is nothing amusing about it. I do think, though, from some of the things I've read, that Tre's childhood was much rougher than either Billie's or Mike's (despite the facts we know about them). And I do think that a person's childhood has a lot to do with shaping them as an adult. That doesn't mean that I think what Tre did was okay. It just means that I feel sorry for him and for the things he went through to shape him into a person who would do such a horrible thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supermodel*Robot Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 I ordered mine a month ago and it still hasn't shown up. Should I be concerned? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
November's Storms Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 Well, I was sure I sent yours because I put little hearts on it when I saw your name! I've really enjoyed sending these out. Now and then I recognize someone I know (though I'm sure many went by without me noticing the names). It makes me feel all warm and fuzzy and happy to know I'm sending one to someone whose face I can imagine lighting up when they receive it Aw J'net, I really do love you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermione Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 Well, I was sure I sent yours because I put little hearts on it when I saw your name! I've really enjoyed sending these out. Now and then I recognize someone I know (though I'm sure many went by without me noticing the names). It makes me feel all warm and fuzzy and happy to know I'm sending one to someone whose face I can imagine lighting up when they receive it . So please do let me know when it arrives. I have no idea how long the international ones will take. It seems quite random from some of the emails I've received. And I have to agree with you on that one. It's not so much "judging" as figuring out how I feel about someone. And I can't feel good about that incident. There is nothing amusing about it. I do think, though, from some of the things I've read, that Tre's childhood was much rougher than either Billie's or Mike's (despite the facts we know about them). And I do think that a person's childhood has a lot to do with shaping them as an adult. That doesn't mean that I think what Tre did was okay. It just means that I feel sorry for him and for the things he went through to shape him into a person who would do such a horrible thing. Yeah to be clear when I say judging I don't mean judging every single aspect of his personality. I mean judging his treatment of animals as showing a lack empathy and consideration for other living creatures, and as being wrong. Whatever the reasons for it are that is sad for him, but at the same time it doesn't absolve him of responsibilty and doesn't mean we can't judge/work out how we feel about him based on his own actions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J'net Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 I ordered mine a month ago and it still hasn't shown up. Should I be concerned? Probably. PM me with the name you ordered under and your country (though I think I know already). The only thing is ... with international orders, they may be inspected by customs. If that happens, there's no telling how long it will take. However, I promise I didn't put anything in the envelope that won't pass inspection! If your order has gone astray, we'll figure out a way to make sure you get one! Aw J'net, I really do love you! Ditto, Stephen! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lizziebix Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 But at some point as an adult he needs to act like an adult and not use his upbringing as an excuse for his treatment of animals. Sorry, I'm not buying it's his upbringing that makes him do these things. At nearly 40, with kids of his own, he should know better and act that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J'net Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 But at some point as an adult he needs to act like an adult and not use his upbringing as an excuse for his treatment of animals. Sorry, I'm not buying it's his upbringing that makes him do these things. At nearly 40, with kids of his own, he should know better and act that way. Oh, I don't think Tre uses his upbringing as an excuse. I doubt he's that self-aware. I'm just saying some things I read set off alarm bells and whistles. They may or may not have contributed to the way he is. What I am saying is that I feel sorry for him - and that's one reason why. I do not condone what he did for any reason! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lizziebix Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 Oh, I don't think Tre uses his upbringing as an excuse. I doubt he's that self-aware. I'm just saying some things I read set off alarm bells and whistles. They may or may not have contributed to the way he is. What I am saying is that I feel sorry for him - and that's one reason why. I do not condone what he did for any reason! I see. I understand your meaning now. I guess I wonder why none of his friends or family don't talk to him about those situations? Especially since they are so extreme. I mean, Aaron mentions that they've had in depth conversations on so many other topics over the years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
November's Storms Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 I see. I understand your meaning now. I guess I wonder why none of his friends or family don't talk to him about those situations? Especially since they are so extreme. I mean, Aaron mentions that they've had in depth conversations on so many other topics over the years. They probably have, but I can imagine Tré as being a stubborn son of a bitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lizziebix Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 They probably have, but I can imagine Tré as being a stubborn son of a bitch. Good point. Just sad on so many levels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeachBum Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 Ordered mine.... can't wait to receive it so i can finally read it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuzz Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 I see. I understand your meaning now. I guess I wonder why none of his friends or family don't talk to him about those situations? Especially since they are so extreme. I mean, Aaron mentions that they've had in depth conversations on so many other topics over the years. You're talking about someone that has been in a punk rock band since his teenage years and a successful rock star for most of his life. I'm pretty sure he acts the way he wants to act because he can. I'm still not on board about the arguments made against Tre in this situation. If he went to a zoo and attacked an octopus I'd feel differently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minorty13 Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 Whew. Acutally went back and read this entire thread! I love all the debates, makes me even more excited for my copy to arrive As for the Tre/octopus thing... I thought it was pretty funny. I'm not exactly thrilled that the octopus met an untimely and not-so-painless death, but I'm not up in arms about it either. Tre's obviously not the most caring or gentle being out there, but I don't think that makes him the next Charles Manson or anything! SO excited to get the whole story when my copy comes in the mail! From what I've heard, this sounds interesting to say the least Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alaniluau Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 I see. I understand your meaning now. I guess I wonder why none of his friends or family don't talk to him about those situations? Especially since they are so extreme. I mean, Aaron mentions that they've had in depth conversations on so many other topics over the years. I also think that someone should try to explain to Tre that some of the "funny" things he does are not amusing in the slightest. However, he does seem rather aloof and just plain careless in cases, which would make it difficult to really get through to him. Regardless, I do hope he'll be more respectful to animals in the future. I don't want to seem like I'm bashing on Tre. He's a lovely (albeit crazy) guy and all, but I'm pretty sensitive to animal issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuzz Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 I also think that someone should try to explain to Tre that some of the "funny" things he does are not amusing in the slightest. However, he does seem rather aloof and just plain careless in cases, which would make it difficult to really get through to him. Regardless, I do hope he'll be more respectful to animals in the future. I don't want to seem like I'm bashing on Tre. He's a lovely (albeit crazy) guy and all, but I'm pretty sensitive to animal issues. As i've mentioned before, this doesn't bother me because it's not like Tre went to a zoo and strangled an octopus for lunch. This was him trying a local delicacy (even Aaron called it that), and if you do a little research you'll find it's common in Korea and Japan (called "San Nak Ji"). While it seems crazy to most of us, the fact is that some cultures eat this stuff normally and Tre wanted to try it. It didn't go well. I get equally grossed out by people eating lobster and crab, that doesn't make me think that everyone who goes to a Red Lobster or a restaurant where they let you pick your live lobster to cook is guilty of animal cruelty. That just kind of goes along with the idea of the way the food is prepared. Whether or not I'd ever do it is another story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alaniluau Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 As i've mentioned before, this doesn't bother me because it's not like Tre went to a zoo and strangled an octopus for lunch. This was him trying a local delicacy (even Aaron called it that), and if you do a little research you'll find it's common in Korea and Japan (called "San Nak Ji"). While it seems crazy to most of us, the fact is that some cultures eat this stuff normally and Tre wanted to try it. It didn't go well. I get equally grossed out by people eating lobster and crab, that doesn't make me think that everyone who goes to a Red Lobster or a restaurant where they let you pick your live lobster to cook is guilty of animal cruelty. That just kind of goes along with the idea of the way the food is prepared. Whether or not I'd ever do it is another story. I get what you're saying about the cultural perspectives and all. I'm a vegetarian so I tend to get grossed out/upset over all types of animal consumption, even if it's pork, beef, or other more traditional "American" meats. It's more of a personal thing for me than just a jab at Tre or the octopus. Either way, I was rather disappointed in that part just because that's how I usually react to those sorts of situations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
November's Storms Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 Whew. Acutally went back and read this entire thread! I love all the debates, makes me even more excited for my copy to arrive As for the Tre/octopus thing... I thought it was pretty funny. I'm not exactly thrilled that the octopus met an untimely and not-so-painless death, but I'm not up in arms about it either. Tre's obviously not the most caring or gentle being out there, but I don't think that makes him the next Charles Manson or anything! SO excited to get the whole story when my copy comes in the mail! From what I've heard, this sounds interesting to say the least I think it's best if we still use spoilers when discussing actual details in the story, some still haven't read it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daughter.of.Rage.and.Love Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 As i've mentioned before, this doesn't bother me because it's not like Tre went to a zoo and strangled an octopus for lunch. This was him trying a local delicacy (even Aaron called it that), and if you do a little research you'll find it's common in Korea and Japan (called "San Nak Ji"). While it seems crazy to most of us, the fact is that some cultures eat this stuff normally and Tre wanted to try it. It didn't go well. I get equally grossed out by people eating lobster and crab, that doesn't make me think that everyone who goes to a Red Lobster or a restaurant where they let you pick your live lobster to cook is guilty of animal cruelty. That just kind of goes along with the idea of the way the food is prepared. Whether or not I'd ever do it is another story. I don't think this is any different from if he had gone to a zoo and strangled an octopus. Local delicacy aside, I'm pretty sure that in general said delicacy isn't consumed by randomly getting an octopus from God knows where and first letting it crawl over someone and then taking a bite out of it. I'm not a fan of eating live animals anyway, but I'd understand if he had, like, gone to some restaurant place to try it. To me, this is no different from your zoo example except that the octopus wasn't stolen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermione Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 I don't think this is any different from if he had gone to a zoo and strangled an octopus. Local delicacy aside, I'm pretty sure that in general said delicacy isn't consumed by randomly getting an octopus from God knows where and first letting it crawl over someone and then taking a bite out of it. I'm not a fan of eating live animals anyway, but I'd understand if he had, like, gone to some restaurant place to try it. To me, this is no different from your zoo example except that the octopus wasn't stolen. I agree. He still could've eaten traditionally prepared fresh uncooked octopus of he'd killed it just before eating it, eating it while still alive is totally unnecessary cruelty. The way he did it had absolutely nothing to do with tradition or culture and everything to do with showing off. He didn't mind leaving out all the other traditional elements of the local way of eating octopus but he made sure to keep the cruelest part didn't he? And pretty sure there's plenty of other local delicacies or traditions he could've tried but no, he chose the one that allowed him to get a kick out of abusing an animal. Using the excuse of it being a local custom is a total cop out - pick a different local custom! Last I checked getting fish to fight until one is badly injured and just leaving it like that and then pretending to give it mouth to mouth for a laugh before leaving it to suffer a slow and painful death isn't a local custom. Just a coincidence that it was the same person who did that who wanted to expand his cultural experiences with this particular custom was it? He didn't do either of those horrible things to experience another culture or so as not to offend his hosts, he did them because he wanted to do those things to those animals. No excuse for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lizziebix Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 You're talking about someone that has been in a punk rock band since his teenage years and a successful rock star for most of his life. I'm pretty sure he acts the way he wants to act because he can. I'm still not on board about the arguments made against Tre in this situation. If he went to a zoo and attacked an octopus I'd feel differently. While your point of him being a rock and roller is fair, it doesn't give him the right to be inhumane. That's really my whole view on the incident. So maybe he didn't steal it from a zoo, but he did get it live from somewhere only to abuse it for a laugh. Just didn't find that funny at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IscoredWaddlesgoals Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 I'm kind of annoyed that Billie & Bill didn't say anything at the time as well. I know they (and Mike) aren't his babysitters but I think a degree of what he gets away with is down to people not telling him to stop. Also, I don't think he was doing it because it's 'cultural' as that would imply a degree of thought on his part. And even if it is, the actual act was/is vile anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tripe Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 This octopus incident disappointed me, too. The gross out factor seemed far more important to Tre than "experimenting with different cultures." Otherwise, he would have tried it sitting down in a proper restaurant where people eat that way. With regard to Billie and Bill not speaking up about the ridiculousness of all of that - I imagine they get weary of it all after awhile and just let him go. Sounds from Cometbus that they all get irritated with him quite often! And, the bottom line is - he is an excellent drummer, a dedicated band member, and a hard worker. Perhaps that is enough for them to ignore some of the weird and annoying tendencies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellenkc Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 Hmm I wasn't really too bothered by the octopus. Obviously it was fairly gross, but if you look it up the traditional dish is served live. It's cut up (while it's still alive) and served quickly so that it's still alive and squirming while being eaten. I don't see how it would make the slightest difference if he went to a restaurant and had someone get a live octopus and cut it up for him rather than not going to a restaurant, and not using a knife. Either way the octopus is being cut into pieces and being eaten while it's still alive. Cometbus didn't really give a favorable view on Tre, but this is a very biased source. Aaron has his own opinion of Tre and what he did, and he will write and shape the story in favour of his own opinion. I'm not going to judge a guy I don't know off of this. Plus if I was going to judge it would be off the sometimes blatant sexism (jokingly or not I'm not sure, you can't exactly figure that out without being there I guess), which was also pointed out by Aaron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
November's Storms Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 The guys really didn't seem to give a fuck about when Billie shouldn't have touched the girls head during EJN. I forget what place it was in, Malaysia? I don't think Tré was doing his tradition of sampling local culture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.