COMETBUS #54 Green Day In China?!

[Hermione]

This is how Aaron writes. He's always bitching about people with wealth, etc. He observes behaviour and he reacts to it. He doesn't necessarily get in their and pick at the people's brains. He never has and, most likely, never will. It's okay if people don't like or appreciate that he writes in this way, but I don't think the fact that this edition is about Green Day should make it any different. Yes, I haven't read it, but from what it sounds like, it's just Aaron expressing things in an Aaron sort of way. If you don't like it, don't read it. It's a zine. It's opinion based, not fact based. If you have to read it because it's about Green Day, then just respect and understand who you're reading.

I'm very much familiar with his writing and I love his writing style. But sometimes he says things that I disagree with and don't have respect for - Green Day related or not. I have a huge amount of respect for him as a writer, but if I think something he writes is ignorant, based on unfair and inaccurate assuptions or hypocritical I'll say so.

I'm not at all surprised he said these things about Green Day fans, it's typical Aaron. I happen to disagree with them just as I've disagreed with other things he's written in the past. Believe it or not he's actually my all time favourite writer , but that doesn't mean I have to blindly like or respect everything he writes.

[Supermodel*Robot]

I'm very much familiar with his writing and I love his writing style. But sometimes he says things that I disagree with and don't have respect for - Green Day related or not. I have a huge amount of respect for him as a writer, but if I think something he writes is ignorant, based on unfair and inaccurate assuptions or hypocritical I'll say so.

I'm not at all surprised he said these things about Green Day fans, it's typical Aaron. I happen to disagree with them just as I've disagreed with other things he's written in the past. Believe it or not he's actually my all time favourite writer , but that doesn't mean I have to blindly like or respect everything he writes.

Yeah, I get that. He says stuff that I don't agree with sometimes and you can't just agree with it because it's him, that would essentially just make us Aaron SuperFans, rather than Green Day ones. I just think that it's ridiculous that people are suprprised and offended by what he said. There's no sense in attacking what he's done. It's like they say in school, you have to recognize the bias in what you're reading if you want to get anything out of it.

And I'm not trying to attack you directly. You seem pretty smart about it. I just mean that this is being so blown up, in general.I think the fact that I write helps me as well, because I know what it's like to just write out reactions without realizing that it might be viewed as an attack.

[Larry Livermore]

Actually, we were... over something that I am still not sure why you blogged about. I think you blew the subject up more so than any of us would have. How many enraged masses were there? I think about four or five people talking on Twitter. I'm sure it would have died down as quickly as it began. Your post kinda blew it out there into the open. Here at the GDC, we are almost always enraged about something or another, but it usually dies down after a bit.

Well, I guess I was going on the theory that for every outraged Twitterer there will be many others thinking along the same lines who for one reason or another don't feel like they want to speak up themselves.

And considering that in my six years of blogging, this article got the biggest response of anything I have ever written, I think this assessment proved to be be correct.

[Supermodel*Robot]

I am only asking why he blogged about it, Andres. I believe there was some great conversation going on about it over here, too. Especially since the question was phrased as "Why do they think that they are the ones being talked about." Slightly felt like finger-pointing, to be honest. But, I await Larry's response to the question.

The whole point of blogging is to express you opinions. I have great conversations with people and then I take what I learned, digest it, and blog about it. Just because there's another form of discussion going on, doesn't mean that you can't blog about it also.

As for Larry's actual blog post, I thought that it was very well written. He admitted to fitting into the category Aaron decribed, as well as he admits to recognizing some flaws in Aaron's thinking. It was nothing like finger-pointing, and a lot more like humbly sharing an opinion.

[GDM]

Well, I guess I was going on the theory that for every outraged Twitterer there will be many others thinking along the same lines who for one reason or another don't feel like they want to speak up themselves.

And considering that in my six years of blogging, this article got the biggest response of anything I have ever written, I think this assessment proved to be be correct.

Alrighty. Good answer. And I think it was 86 comments on Facebook, too, lol.

I do have to say that I wasn't that thrilled with the way the question was put. I think that made me more pissed off than what Aaron wrote, frankly!

It's not like I've never thought that the last couple of years have been... excessive... I suppose in the enjoyment of traveling and going to see shows.

But, I think the whole lost-looking, eerie and trust fund thing was just... insulting. The way you phrased the question (to me), just added a bit more insult onto it.

Anyhoo... enough of that. See you around Brooklyn.

And thanks.

The whole point of blogging is to express you opinions. I have great conversations with people and then I take what I learned, digest it, and blog about it. Just because there's another form of discussion going on, doesn't mean that you can't blog about it also.

Uh... thanks. I've been blogging for a number of years... that's not why I asked Larry the question. Thanks!

[Supermodel*Robot]

I completely agree. And while I can't find it okay that Aaron stated things as facts that were NOT facts (and I really feel sure about that), I have tried to see it from Aaron's perspective as well.

It occurs to me that not everyone has the same kind of thought processes. People are different. I'm a very logical thinker. What Aaron wrote in that second controversial paragraph was not factually true (well, part of it was ... "The decadence of it made me sick"). I hate stretching, obfuscation or straight-out fabrication of "facts." So, as a logical thinker, that portion of the paragraph bothers me.

I like that you're willing to look at it from where he's coming from. It's left me wondering about a quote from Billie from way back when. I can't remember what interview it was, but I remember being struck by it because I felt like I was being pegged. He said, and I'm paraphrasing, "I fucking hate college kids. They're handed this education and opportunity from their parent's bank account." Now this annoys me a little bit, considering I'm a college kid that's paying her entire way through University. There's no mommy & daddy fund for me, yet Billie's quote completely generalized me into this category of stuck up unnappreciative people. The thing that's different about how I reacted to it though, is that it irritates me a bit, but I do know why he's saying this and I recognize that his stereotype wasn't an attack on me per se, even though his choice of wording his disdain wasn't well though out. I'm initially frustrated by it, but I get why he's saying it.

[Tripe]

Well, I guess I was going on the theory that for every outraged Twitterer there will be many others thinking along the same lines who for one reason or another don't feel like they want to speak up themselves.

And considering that in my six years of blogging, this article got the biggest response of anything I have ever written, I think this assessment proved to be be correct.

Totally! There were so many side conversations and snide remarks all over FB and Twitter that never even made it to the comment section of your blog or here to this thread. It has been a fun couple of days for reading.

[Abbey.]

I like that you're willing to look at it from where he's coming from. It's left me wondering about a quote from Billie from way back when. I can't remember what interview it was, but I remember being struck by it because I felt like I was being pegged. He said, and I'm paraphrasing, "I fucking hate college kids. They're handed this education and opportunity from their parent's bank account." Now this annoys me a little bit, considering I'm a college kid that's paying her entire way through University. There's no mommy & daddy fund for me, yet Billie's quote completely generalized me into this category of stuck up unnappreciative people. The thing that's different about how I reacted to it though, is that it irritates me a bit, but I do know why he's saying this and I recognize that his stereotype wasn't an attack on me per se, even though his choice of wording his disdain wasn't well though out. I'm initially frustrated by it, but I get why he's saying it.

interesting point and perspective w.r.t. a quote from BJA. i have enjoyed reading your posts. i was too busy being hurt and angered by Aaron's words before stepping back and looking at where he's coming from. and i guess that is really just as judgemental! thank you for your perspectives.

[GDM]

FYI, Microcosmhas this in stock now. Not sure how much it is to ship.

[Abbey.]

lord, i could talk about this frickin thing forever. but i will not give away any spoilers. y'all got to read it for yourselves.

one thing that makes me laugh whenever i see a picture of the cover of #54, is Billie is playing a "Z" on a triple word score. if that was staged then that is FUCKING HYSTERICAL. if its not, then he really is the perfect human being.

[Bastard of 1967]

Gang - for those of you who haven't been able to locate a good source to get a copy of Aaron's 'zine, I'm sure you've heard that GDA is working on getting a hold of some copies for resale. Hang in there and be sure to pick up a copy either through GDA or wherever else you can find one. It is a must-read. Let me repeat in case you missed that, it is a must-read.

It's the first Cometbus I've read, and "superfan" controversy aside, it's one of the best pieces of writing I've seen in a long time and the most insightful, introspective, and observant work about Green Day I've ever had the opportunity to read. You thought Mark Spitz's book was good? Aaron's will blow your mind. Not only is it very frank, brutally honest, and very well though out and well-written in general, but there is a significant perspective difference from the Spitz book -- you see, Mark had to do his investigation and observing of the band mostly from the "outside" -- from friends, family, colleagues, acquaintences, and industry insiders who lived around Green Day, but he had minimal direct access to Billie, Mike, and Tre themselves. Not so with Aaron, he spent two full weeks with them, traveling with them at their invitation and expense, and had an unparalleled opportunity to directly observe their interactions with each other and with people and fans outside the band.

The fact that it's self-published and even looks and feels a bit gritty and hand-done is just icing on the cake. It's a phenomenal piece of very well-executed writing and could have easily been picked up by a major publisher. Instead he's run them off on a photocopier at a small-scale print shop and he's distributing them himself for a lousy $4 a copy. If that's enough to cover just the duplication and distribution costs I'd be amazed, let alone leaving enough $ in his pocket afterwards so he can at least buy himself a burger and a beer or something. Taken as a whole it's a labor of love for his friends (who insisted that he journal and share his experiences) -- and thus so it is even for the fans that he took his swipe at. Kudos.

[sarita]

The fact that it's self-published and even looks and feels a bit gritty and hand-done is just icing on the cake. It's a phenomenal piece of very well-executed writing and could have easily been picked up by a major publisher. Instead he's run them off on a photocopier at a small-scale print shop and he's distributing them himself for a lousy $4 a copy. If that's enough to cover just the duplication and distribution costs I'd be amazed, let alone leaving enough $ in his pocket afterwards so he can at least buy himself a burger and a beer or something. Taken as a whole it's a labor of love for his friends (who insisted that he journal and share his experiences) -- and thus so it is even for the fans that he took his swipe at. Kudos.

All superfan controversy aside, I have always enjoyed Aaron's writing! And really can't wait to get a copy of #54. Love how you described it as being "gritty and hand-done". Makes it that much more interesting, somehow, doesn't it? As opposed to a beautiful, shiny hard cover book from Barnes & Noble

[Abbey.]

The fact that it's self-published and even looks and feels a bit gritty and hand-done is just icing on the cake. It's a phenomenal piece of very well-executed writing and could have easily been picked up by a major publisher. Instead he's run them off on a photocopier at a small-scale print shop and he's distributing them himself for a lousy $4 a copy. If that's enough to cover just the duplication and distribution costs I'd be amazed, let alone leaving enough $ in his pocket afterwards so he can at least buy himself a burger and a beer or something. Taken as a whole it's a labor of love for his friends (who insisted that he journal and share his experiences) -- and thus so it is even for the fans that he took his swipe at. Kudos.

Michael, welcome to the wonderful world of Aaron Comebus, zines, and diy. It IS hand done. Aaron has been approached by major publishers for years. He has written about that in the past. He CHOOSES to self publish. The recent issues have been printed, I believe I once read, by a printer in Chinatown? Now please go out and buy every back issue that remains in stock. Issues 49, 50, 51, 52 and 53 are all still easily available.

He is also a visual artist. The covers done by him are all images manipulated by cut & paste, ink, and copiers (#53 cover was a beautiful drawing by Nate Powell) . Its true art. He's also done probably a zillion show flyers and dont forget album covers. He had an art show last year with a behind-the-scenes of how he creates his images and it was nothing short of fascinating.

[SOMERTEN]

So we are not getting scans because of copyright? Sorry Andres but I don't understand that reasoning when all the other magazines are scanned. The only difference is that other writers don't usually hurl 'uneducated' personal insults to fans.

It would be good then if a download was for sale with the money going to charity rather than into the pocket of a man who bad mouths Green Day fans. I don't know what gigs he has been at but I see tons of guys, (a lot with kids but somehow they are not classed as 'lost' or 'eerie') at concerts.

I wanted to read the interesting parts about Green Day and I am really pissed off as I refuse to pay for this on principle. I feel he has to be taught a lesson. I don't expect someone to download 90 pages of rambling, Just quotes about the band would be good.

[Robin105]

I got this today in the mail. I read some of it. I thought it was like a magazine but it's more like a book. He mentioned something about Tre almost killing himself with an octopus.

[Ellenkc]

So we are not getting scans because of copyright? Sorry Andres but I don't understand that reasoning when all the other magazines are scanned. The only difference is that other writers don't usually hurl 'uneducated' personal insults to fans.

It would be good then if a download was for sale with the money going to charity rather than into the pocket of a man who bad mouths Green Day fans. I don't know what gigs he has been at but I see tons of guys, (a lot with kids but somehow they are not classed as 'lost' or 'eerie') at concerts.

I wanted to read the interesting parts about Green Day and I am really pissed off as I refuse to pay for this on principle. I feel he has to be taught a lesson. I don't expect someone to download 90 pages of rambling, Just quotes about the band would be good.

Because there is a significant difference between Cometbus and Rolling Stone. Aaron is doing this by himself and it would be unfair to scan something he put that much work into. Besides it's what 90 something pages? I wouldn't like to see scans of this in the same way I don't download music from indie bands.

Aaron should not be 'punished' for stating his opinion. Sure he said it in a way that was offensive but remember you're reading a punk zine, he doesn't claim to be unbiased. It would be unfair to ask him to censor himself, even if his view on Green Day 'superfans' is harsh, that is his view and he's free to write it.

[Bastard of 1967]

So we are not getting scans because of copyright? Sorry Andres but I don't understand that reasoning when all the other magazines are scanned. The only difference is that other writers don't usually hurl 'uneducated' personal insults to fans.

It would be good then if a download was for sale with the money going to charity rather than into the pocket of a man who bad mouths Green Day fans. I don't know what gigs he has been at but I see tons of guys, (a lot with kids but somehow they are not classed as 'lost' or 'eerie') at concerts.

I wanted to read the interesting parts about Green Day and I am really pissed off as I refuse to pay for this on principle. I feel he has to be taught a lesson. I don't expect someone to download 90 pages of rambling, Just quotes about the band would be good.

See my post in this thread from earlier today. I stand by it 100%

except for the part where I totally #FAILed to grasp how integral the DIY/self-publication is to 'zines in general and Aaron's publication in particular, and how profit motive is the absolute last thing on his mind in producing this -- it's just not part of the mindset or the equation, and I totally blanked on that earlier. Regardless I'm still extremely impressed with how well-done it is overall.

Bottom line: it's not 90 pages of rambling. It's 90 pages of observations, some facts, and a lot of opinions that will give you a look at Green Day that you won't find anywhere else. Yeah, he's got a couple of sentences in there where he takes (from what I understand, his characteristic) negative view of excessive consumerism, and in dealing with that he takes it out on a subset of Green Day's fan base. We've spend a week wrestling with this and I hope we can let go of it now.

Anyway, you say you "wanted to read the interesting parts about Green Day". The whole damn thing is "interesting parts about Green Day", you simply can't scan a couple of pages and do it justice. It's not like a Rolling Stone or Billboard mag where you can scan an article that spans a margin, or maybe one or two pages, and you're done with it because the rest is irrelevant material or ads. The whole 'zine, cover to cover, is Aaron relating to us his experiences and observations traveling with the band. It's like the Mark Spitz book, only do-it-yourself-published -- and more informative and eye-opening by several orders of magnitude.

[Fuzz]

So we are not getting scans because of copyright? Sorry Andres but I don't understand that reasoning when all the other magazines are scanned. The only difference is that other writers don't usually hurl 'uneducated' personal insults to fans.

It would be good then if a download was for sale with the money going to charity rather than into the pocket of a man who bad mouths Green Day fans. I don't know what gigs he has been at but I see tons of guys, (a lot with kids but somehow they are not classed as 'lost' or 'eerie') at concerts.

I wanted to read the interesting parts about Green Day and I am really pissed off as I refuse to pay for this on principle. I feel he has to be taught a lesson. I don't expect someone to download 90 pages of rambling, Just quotes about the band would be good.

If you want to teach him a lesson, then don't bother reading it at all. As pointed out, there's a huge difference between scans of a national popular music magazine, and something someone publishes on their own.

[IscoredWaddlesgoals]

So we are not getting scans because of copyright? Sorry Andres but I don't understand that reasoning when all the other magazines are scanned. The only difference is that other writers don't usually hurl 'uneducated' personal insults to fans.

It would be good then if a download was for sale with the money going to charity rather than into the pocket of a man who bad mouths Green Day fans. I don't know what gigs he has been at but I see tons of guys, (a lot with kids but somehow they are not classed as 'lost' or 'eerie') at concerts.

I wanted to read the interesting parts about Green Day and I am really pissed off as I refuse to pay for this on principle. I feel he has to be taught a lesson. I don't expect someone to download 90 pages of rambling, Just quotes about the band would be good.

In a way, I kinda get your point with the 'principal' thing but punishing someone because you don't agree with their opinion on something would be a bit daft. Plus, 90 pages of scans would be a nightmare to read. Maybe you could ask someone to lend you it after they've read it or find a cheap copy on eBay ?

[Bastard of 1967]

find a cheap copy on eBay ?

How much cheaper than $4 can you get?

[IscoredWaddlesgoals]

How much cheaper than $4 can you get?

I don't know all the prices !

I think shipping costs appear to be a bit of a problem anyway, if I knew I could get one from someone in the UK that might be the slightly more expensive (but it'd come quicker) I could be tempted.

[Fuzz]

I don't know all the prices !

I think shipping costs appear to be a bit of a problem anyway, if I knew I could get one from someone in the UK that might be the slightly more expensive (but it'd come quicker) I could be tempted.

As been mentioned, we'll be selling these through GDA very soon, and shipping prices will be as cheap as possible. And we'll be sending some to Tony, who will ship them out for folks in Europe, so shipping shouldn't get pricey.

[OliDayyy]

I just ordered it 10$ isn't bad at all!

[BrickOfSelfControl1995]

I don't suggest anyone order it through GDA unless they're willing to wait until 2012 to read it, and by that time the world will have ended anyways.

Damn the apocalypse.

But now that I've got my bitter ramblings out, I'm really interested in reading this. I heard that he said some unflattering things about Green Day fans, but I also know that he's close friends with the band so I hardly believe that they were full-blown insults. Regardless, I hope to buy this at some point. $4 is super cheap, so I don't see why anyone has a problem with getting it from LastGasp.com

Plus, who doesn't love Pinhead Gunpowder!? Aaron Cometbus drums for em

[J'net]

I don't suggest anyone order it through GDA unless they're willing to wait until 2012 to read it, and by that time the world will have ended anyways.

Damn the apocalypse.

Just so you know, we will be using a new distribution process and personnel. I expect it will go very smoothly and quickly once we receive the zines (which are on their way now).