Trina Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 Oh man, is it wrong of me to think his portrayal of us is brilliant? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abbey. Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 some people feel entitled to something just because they're willing to spend a lot more money for Green Day stuff than other people. thats actually the cool thing about this band. you really CANT buy access to them. i cant expense account my way to the front row of a show. i gotta fight my way through the pit to get there. yo money aint good with them. you gotta be one helluva a fan to get to see their shows up close and know about all the cool extra shows they do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J'net Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 I've spent a fair bit of time thinking about this while in the shower, driving to work, and doing other things that leave me free to just ponder. But this is the first time I've had enough minutes to sit down and share my thoughts. Several of my friends were hurt or angered by Aaron's words, and for that I feel saddened. But somehow I'm unable to feel personally affronted by what he wrote. As a matter of fact, his descriptions of the fans he saw were beautifully written and evocative. If they applied to anyone I know, that was just the mistaken perception of someone who wasn't looking any deeper than the surface. It would have been even more interesting if Aaron had written about what kind of fan would gain his approval. Someone not too young, not too old, someone with no family and no money? I was left wondering but not offended. However, there was one part of his statement that caused Aaron's reading on my respect-o-meter to drop considerably: "Armed with seemingly inexhaustible expense accounts and trust funds, they crisscrossed the country attending every single Green Day-related event. That kind of frivolousness I could understand in a once-in-a-lifetime or one-last-wish scenario, but not every single week! The decadence of it made me sick." Now it may be possible that Aaron actually knows a group of middle-aged women, teens, and fatherless families that were all travelling to "every single Green Day-related event." He may even know that they were able to engage in this "decadent" behavior because of their trust funds and expense accounts. He may further know that they do nothing else at all worthwhile with their money or their time, and this fact may sicken him. In that case, I have no problem whatsoever with what he wrote. However, I seriously doubt that's the case. I loathe ignorant, judgemental generalizations and senseless exaggerations used to make a point. For me, they not only obscure the point - they make me doubt the veracity of the point. If Aaron truly knows one individual who fits that description, then let him attack that person with those words. But to look at a bunch of Green Day fans at a show and imagine an offensive life-story for them so he can be shocked and outraged by it, as he appears to have done here ... well thumbs down. Simply not Aaron's finest moment. None of this will keep me from reading Aaron's writing, which I've typically enjoyed. And since I don't know him as a person, I'm not going to speculate about what might be his motives in writing this. Everyone errs occasionally, and I think, by writing these lines, Aaron's error (not easy to say!) was in taking the easy way out. It seems that, instead of finding out what was really going on with these fans, he fabricated a fantasy that suited him. I'm hoping that the ease of poking holes in that fabrication is the only flaw I'll find when I finally get to read the already infamous #54. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DorkWithAFork Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Oh man, is it wrong of me to think his portrayal of us is brilliant? Haha, nope Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justcause Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 As a matter of fact, his descriptions of the fans he saw were beautifully written and evocative. Yes, they are - that's the first thing that came to me. They were beautiful from the point of where it was his impressions, right up to where he became judgemental instead of being curious as to the why of it, and at that point, he fucking killed it. Whatever - this is an individual voice, speaking it like he sees it, and presumably knowing that it says as much about him as it says about the people he's talking about. If it seems like he's pushed a lot of buttons in the fanbase - well, that's for us to deal with, and it's lead to the most worthwhile discussion I've seen on here in a long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bastard of 1967 Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 However, there was one part of his statement that caused Aaron's reading on my respect-o-meter to drop considerably: "Armed with seemingly inexhaustible expense accounts and trust funds, they crisscrossed the country attending every single Green Day-related event. That kind of frivolousness I could understand in a once-in-a-lifetime or one-last-wish scenario, but not every single week! The decadence of it made me sick." Now it may be possible that Aaron actually knows a group of middle-aged women, teens, and fatherless families that were all travelling to "every single Green Day-related event." He may even know that they were able to engage in this "decadent" behavior because of their trust funds and expense accounts. He may further know that they do nothing else at all worthwhile with their money or their time, and this fact may sicken him. In that case, I have no problem whatsoever with what he wrote. However, I seriously doubt that's the case. I loathe ignorant, judgemental generalizations and senseless exaggerations used to make a point. For me, they not only obscure the point - they make me doubt the veracity of the point. If Aaron truly knows one individual who fits that description, then let him attack that person with those words. But to look at a bunch of Green Day fans at a show and imagine an offensive life-story for them so he can be shocked and outraged by it, as he appears to have done here ... well thumbs down. Simply not Aaron's finest moment. That's exactly where I wound up, J'net, and I think you arrived at the same place in three short paragraphs as I did in a considerably lengthier post earlier in this thread. Well put. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*withoutadoubt* Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 I don't really know much about Aaron Cometbus except from what I've heard secondhand, and I haven't read any of his work - yet - I have a copy of #54 on the way. I have read the comments in question here and the blogs and replies and most of the discussion about them. I wasn't really offended by his comments myself - I don't really care much what he thinks, and I don't know enough about him to judge. The one thing he said that struck me and really made me think, 'HUH? ' was the 'lost-looking' comment. Those two words have been bothering me because I don't understand where they are coming from. Maybe he's getting awed or inspired or complete and utter bliss-looking mixed up with lost? Ok, I AM middle-aged, whatEVER, and I AM probably a bit eerie, I admit it freely, but lost-looking? At a Green Day concert? I can only really speak for myself, but I'm sure a lot of others feel the same - when I am at a Green Day show, I am no where near lost, looking or otherwise. It's a feeling of finally being found, feeling so totally at home - never, ever lost. It's a comfortable feeling that I've really never felt anywhere else before. Anyway, not that this has anything to do with the debate, just thought I'd share my thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supermodel*Robot Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 I love Aaron Cometbus. His writing is just so honest. I have Double Duce, The Cometbus Omibus, and two different editions of Cometbus. I really need to get my hands on this #54. I'm already fascinated by the snatches of Green Day that are incorporated into his other works. I hope that he's not frustrated by the immense popularity of this edition. I hope that he recognizes that it's not a terrible thing. Also, they don't sell his stuff here. I don't know how to get my hands on #54 before it's too late.This is by no means intended to be a plug, but I don't want to clog up the thread with my long explanation about what's great about Aaron, but if you are at all interested, I wrote about it in April after reading Double Duce. It's an unedited rambling blog post, but it captures the heart of it. To Aaron Cometbus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GDM Posted February 9, 2011 Author Share Posted February 9, 2011 Since I was called out by Larry, I felt I had to respond... so I did. COMETBUS #54: In China With Green Day or… Fans, Superfans, and Stalkers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nova-Caine Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 I certainly don't recall thinking I was entitled to go to see The Foxies during Rocktober, I nearly didn't even bother trying but was persuaded, after being in a van for over a week and still on crutches from a hip replacement operation I was knackered in pain and wanted to go home, the fact Id paid for a Wembley ticket was the reason I travelled to London with the rest. Please don't lump everyone together in one term. I do think that Aaron has stirred up a good debate here, but there was no reason to write it the way he did, extremely judgmental and without foundation. All the people I know that do go to a lot of GD shows and events do so off the back of a lot of hard work, they pay their own way with their own hard earned money. Im glad Larry has cleared up that the band don't share his views because tbh that did worry me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greendaytone Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Since I was called out by Larry, I felt I had to respond... so I did. COMETBUS #54: In China With Green Day or… Fans, Superfans, and Stalkers As I posted on your blog... Really great piece, Tanya. I kind of hope Aaron reads it and perhaps gives another response to the subject. The fact that he reconsidered some of his first impressions of the band's crew members makes me wonder if he'd reconsider some of those comments about the 'Superfans' as well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IscoredWaddlesgoals Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Also, what's the 'fatherless families' thing supposed to mean ? Is he saying the my friend (who lost her dad to leukemia a few years ago and went to the LCC gig last June) can't go to Green Day concerts ? God forbid someone's mum raises a family on their own. Plus, it's quite ironic thing to say when you think about it.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isabel Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 I don't think I've ever 'repped' so much in one thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J'net Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 I don't think I've ever 'repped' so much in one thread. Well, I do agree that Aaron has sparked one of the best conversations I've been involved in on this forum - and I've only had time to contribute the one post yesterday. But reading everyone's ideas has been extremely thought-provoking and fascinating. Lots of rep is well-deserved in this thread! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isabel Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Well, I do agree that Aaron has sparked one of the best conversations I've been involved in on this forum - and I've only had time to contribute the one post yesterday. But reading everyone's ideas has been extremely thought-provoking and fascinating. Lots of rep is well-deserved in this thread! Absolutely. This place always fills me with new and thought provoking ideas Did someone say that you could buy this on No Idea Records' website? I just looked but they only have 3 zines listed, 2 of which I already have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GDM Posted February 9, 2011 Author Share Posted February 9, 2011 As I posted on your blog... Really great piece, Tanya. I kind of hope Aaron reads it and perhaps gives another response to the subject. The fact that he reconsidered some of his first impressions of the band's crew members makes me wonder if he'd reconsider some of those comments about the 'Superfans' as well... Thanks again, Tony. As I said on my blog, the superfan part is mostly addressed to Larry... though I didn't make that clear probably in the post. Aaron never used the term superfan, so it was in response mostly to Larry's post. A couple of people in his comments then the term as hammer. I have always hated that word. But, whatever. Maybe Aaron will reconsider, or at least address, the issues, I don't know. And thanks again for your words, they are always appreciated, both in that post, and when I originally wrote about the genocide thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greendaytone Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Thanks again, Tony. As I said on my blog, the superfan part is mostly addressed to Larry... though I didn't make that clear probably in the post. Aaron never used the term superfan, so it was in response mostly to Larry's post. A couple of people in his comments then the term as hammer. I have always hated that word. But, whatever. Maybe Aaron will reconsider, or at least address, the issues, I don't know. And thanks again for your words, they are always appreciated, both in that post, and when I originally wrote about the genocide thing. My pleasure. Interesting your hate for that word. I quite like it, and kind of wear it as a badge of honour, hence referring to myself as a 'Super Fan' on my twitter bio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anja Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Great blog entry, Tanya! I really enjoyed reading it (and besides that I learnt a lot of new vocabulary ) Thanks for sharing your thoughts. It made me look forward to reading this issue even more! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mellyboots Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 I read the entire thread, and noticed a few people saying they don't understand how younger people can travel to see Green Day multiple times. I know my Green Day adventures aren't as vast as some others here, but I still just wanna explain how I have managed to do mine. I like going to Green Day shows. Do I go to every possible Green Day event? No. I would never be able to afford that. But if there's an event I would love to go to, I'm gonna work my fucking ass off in the attempt to afford to do it. When I went to shows on the European tour last summer, I can't tell you how many people said to me, "How are you going to so much shows? You must be rich!" Haha....no. I wish I was, but no. I'm far from it. Every penny I've spent on Green Day, I earned myself and chose the way I wanted to spend MY money. I have a certain amount that I don't like to see my bank balance go below, because as much as I like seeing bands I'm not going to get into a difficult situation financially over them, so if I'm nearing that amount I stop spending as much and try to build up some more funds. If I don't have enough money to do something, I won't do it. Simple as that. But if Aaron Cometbus wants to set up a trust fund for me so that I can better fit his stereotype, I won't protest. For the most part, I have planned everything very far in advance so that I know I'll be able to afford it. The whole experience was well worth the money I spent, I got to see beautiful cities, meet some of the most amazing people and make a few of the greatest friends I have from following the tour. Not to mention I got to see a lot of kick ass shows with these people, and share so many other once in a life time experiences with them. When I was in New York 2 weeks ago, I was standing outside the St James theatre and another girl who was there asked me if I only came over from Ireland to see Billie play St. Jimmy. I explained to her that I had booked my flights and musical ticket back in October, because I didn't want to take the chance that the musical would close on January 30th and I would never have gotten the chance to see it(we booked it before the musical was extended again). The announcement at the end of November that Billie Joe would be in the musical when we were going to see it was just an unbelievably lucky and incredible bonus to our trip. This girl didn't understand why I would travel all that way just to see the musical if I didn't already know that Billie Joe would be in it. To be quite honest, I don't think she even believed that I was telling the truth. Which I guess is reasonable, she wanted to see the musical because Billie was in it which I can't fault her for. But I wanted to see the musical because it's a story told nearly entirely through Green Day songs. Give me Tony Vincent, Billie Joe or Melissa Etheridge...I don't care. I just wanted to see the story told by the songs that mean so much to me. Then to top it all off, I got to be in fucking New York City. I have wanted to go there for so long, the musical just gave me that extra push I needed to set things in motion. The entire experience I had in NYC has definitely been the best of my life so far. And if anyone thinks it's 'eerie' that, in a roundabout way, I have Green Day to thank for making me decide to finally take that trip so be it. Anyway, I've kinda strayed from the point here. People who have actually been offended by Aaron's words....well to be blunt, just don't be. Do what you enjoy and don't let anyone make you doubt your decisions. Nearly everyone has something in their life that brings them this much happiness and enjoyment, and if your thing happens to be Green Day.....so fucking what? Oh, and yeah I really want this zine. Hopefully I can find some site where shipping isn't redonkulous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GDM Posted February 9, 2011 Author Share Posted February 9, 2011 My pleasure. Interesting your hate for the word that word. I quite like it, and kind of wear it as a badge of honour, hence referring to myself as a 'Super Fan' on my twitter bio. truthfully, I think I dislike that word so much because to me... it's a label, and i sorta hate labels (what are you? is a question i've gotten a lot here in the states because of my ethinicity, and i've had to explain myself one too many times how i could be african-american and yet look caucasian at the same time)... and it's... a... little... elitist... lol... to me. it says, "look at me, i'm the biggest fan in the world, aren't i special," and i think it tends to evoke jealousy in others, which is a very tricky and easy to do thing in the world of fandom. I am lucky to do the things I do because I love to do them, but i know that there are a lot of people who can't, and the phrase to me just seems to thumb that fact in other people's faces... uh.... But don't let my hatred of labels or that word stop you from wearing/using it proudly! lol... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
November's Storms Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 How do you plan on getting a copy? From the places I've found so far, all have ridiculous posting charges You're post almost brought me to tears I love reading through this thread. I don't have much to contribute as my opinion is not really set one way or the other, and I haven't read any Cometbus before so who am I to judge? But this thread has instilled some faith in GDC and in GD's fans that I have lost in other threads. Fascinating to read through often differing but always compelling points of view. Keep them coming! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solongfromthestars Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 I would never think I was entitled to something from Green Day just because I'd spent lots of money on going to a show or travelled 6000 miles to get there - if anything, I think the people who are from the place they're playing are more entitled to something than I am. To get to the shows we sacrificed a lot - we went without food and heating, I ditched my exams, we nearly lost the house, we sold all our stuff. I worry sometimes that they feel I'm stalking them by travelling so far to see them, but I honestly don't want anything from them except a kickass show, the high I get from seeing them play as a band which makes everything okay. It's so amazing when they remember me and that means so much, but it isn't why I go to the shows. There's nowhere I feel less lost or happier than at a GD show. If they see me and want to acknowledge me, thank you so much. If they don't, that's cool. If that makes me a stalker in Aaron's eyes, that's his opinion, but I don't mean it to be like that. I just love Green Day, I've got so many unforgettable memories because of them, I've had so many amazing experiences. But I'm not seriously offended by anything Aaron wrote - like J'net said, maybe he has met people like that. I met one or two people at the shows who were a little bit like the people he's describing. If that's all he knows of hardcore GD fans, I understand why he assumes we're all like that. But I know I'm not, and I recognize that he simply doesn't know that. Even if he would still think that of me, it's not going to change anything. I'd never throw away the chance to have more amazing GD adventures just because one bloke with connections to them doesn't understand me. I sometimes get quite upset when people don't believe that I'm not rich when they ask how I got to so many shows, but although I'm not so offended because it's just a stereotype - some of the things Aaron said were wrong for that very reason. I'm not rich, I'm not any of those things he said. How many of those fans are there? Hardly any. I think he should have thought about it more and I can completely understand why some people feel upset by it. But I would still quite like to read this zine. I can't judge him, to be truthful I know nothing about him. Sorry if I went a little bit off topic and the massive rambling post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorraine. Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 I read the entire thread, and noticed a few people saying they don't understand how younger people can travel to see Green Day multiple times. I know my Green Day adventures aren't as vast as some others here, but I still just wanna explain how I have managed to do mine. I like going to Green Day shows. Do I go to every possible Green Day event? No. I would never be able to afford that. But if there's an event I would love to go to, I'm gonna work my fucking ass off in the attempt to afford to do it. When I went to shows on the European tour last summer, I can't tell you how many people said to me, "How are you going to so much shows? You must be rich!" Haha....no. I wish I was, but no....I'm far from it. Every penny I've spent on Green Day, I earned myself and chose the way I wanted to spend MY money. I have a certain amount that I don't like to see my bank balance go below, because as much as I like seeing bands I'm not going to get into a difficult situation financially over them, so if I'm nearing that amount I stop spending as much and try to build up some more funds. If I don't have enough money to do something, I won't do it. Simple as that. But if Aaron Cometbus wants to set up a trust fund for me so that I can better fit his stereotype, I won't protest. For the most part, I have planned everything very far in advance so that I know I'll be able to afford it. The whole experience was well worth the money I spent, I got to see beautiful cities, meet some of the most amazing people and make a few of the greatest friends I have from following the tour. Not to mention I got to see a lot of kick ass shows with these people, and share so many other once in a life time experiences with them. When I said I didn't understand how younger kids go to all these Green Day events, I'm mainly referring to the kids who are still in high school..that are most likely still dependent on their parent's income. I mean, I don't know everyone's situation..but..what I have seen in the past, that's what it's based around. I don't know, for me it doesn't make sense for a 15, 16, or 17 year old to get up and go wherever Green Day is, espeically when they're still in school and dependent on their parents. But, that's how I was raised. It's a totally different situation if somone is out of high school and is on their own, you know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Undómiel Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Desperately trying to decide whether this is worth the £24 it's gonna cost me.... the shipping is so expensive!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LouLou Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 I have yet to read the issue as I haven't gotten it yet, but as for the people who go to event after event....I try to go to as many events as I can but there's no trust fund and no one is supplying me money. I work my ass off months in advance to be able to go. What makes him think we are all these spoiled rich people who just see this as another way to blow money? Hopefully once I've read it I'll be able to comment better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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