Why do you think 21CB didn't do as well as American Idiot?

[klytaemnestra]

to be fair, i don't think we can gauge the success of each album properly yet. american idiot has been out 5 years and there are still a lot of people buying it because they got into green day through 21st century breakdown. 21st century breakdown has been out for a year and a half and it's one of those albums that spreads slowly, i think. it's gonna be one of those that's hidden until enough people hear about it.

.. i don't think that made sense

[StateOfGrace]

I agree with alot of the points already made.

I just like the overall story of American idiot so much more. I think Jimmy/Whatsername were such great characters and made a much more interesting tale than Gloria/Christian.

I still love 21stCB but American Idiot will always be the best for me.

Also, American Idiot gained so many fans for Green Day. People who didn't know of them saw their videos/singles and thought, "wow this band is great" and led to them to finding out more about them and album sales. 21stCB had weaker videos/singles so I don't think it sparked as many people's interests as AI.

[dreaming]

I do see your point, but I wouldn't lay the credit/blame for it on Green Day itself inasmuch as I'd place it with Butch Vig's production.

...

Yeah I do think this producing thing is important. These 3 versions of 21 Guns do touch different depth of my heart. And a remastered 21CB would be epic! But still I think the emotional state when you come up with a melody is very important.

Then it appears to me maybe this producing style is mostly Billie's idea. Had he once said sth like "We produce this record ourselves and Butch was just offering advice and putting these songs together"? Billie obviousely don't want this one to be a same emotional record as AI, but want it to be powerful in a wise, cool, historical, inspirational way. That's the right thing to do. And by muting Mike's bass, thining his own voice and amping the guitar, it may generate a cool, wise, confident, modern, historical feeling. If what I'm assuming is true, then I'd say he chose the right direction but just failed a little bit in balancing making this wise, historical feeling and accentuating their powerful sensations (which was once their most catching and fascinating characterastic). (Am I making myself clear? )

But I still think, even if 21CB has a remastered version and it balances well on emotions and this historical feelings, it stiil won't reach the same popularity as AI. Almost everybody love AI cause it's out of the basic. But not everybody can appreciate 21CB, with its more serious and social meanings and less pop or emotional melodies. But GD are not making records only to sell, they make it to inspire, so I think actually they did it better with 21CB.

[ihaveapenisbitch!]

Not on a side by side comparison. Only when compared to where it is on the charts. But, yes, as I've stated, ticket sales are a good indicator.

On the flip side, one of the best selling tours has been Phish for decades and they can't sell a record and before there even was large scale internet. The live show is/was their bread and butter.

EDIT: Here is another tie bit of fun. Pink Floyd's "Dark Side of the Moon" was on tge US charts (the 200) for 742 weeks in a row, reaching #1 several times. On the charts from 1973 to 1988! Think they were able to measute its success in 1974. Ftr, that's the longest of any album, ever.

I know we dnt have breakdown figures for sales for 21CBD and Ai but I would love to get my hands on the breakdown for sales so far and compare the two deeper. We dont have enough detailed data to really compare the number of sales over time. Yes its unfare to compare the sales figures mostly because AI had a head start on 21CBD! =D

Than again really do they even care about the sucess its had? I agree its an interesting topic to debate but to me personally I related to it, I connected with it, it means something more than just a few mins of music and I supose that in itself is how I messure their sucess.

Pink Floyd were in the charts for a long long time, my parents loved them I just can't see why sure great music but I just dont connect with it

[Mrs. Nobody]

Am I the only one that doesn't really hear the musical similarities between AI and 21CB?

I didn't actually like 21cb when it came out that much.. AI is much more ''raw'' imo.

For instance, they put up the songs on a site for a bit before releasing the album... I didn't even listen to song of the century, and hearing those clean chords for 21cb (don't get me wrong, I love them now), I was a bit ~gutted. At first listen, it didn't have the power that AI had.

In my opinion, of course

[JohannaRaeRamone.]

Good topic.

Well I think the lack of promotion thing is unanimous, that's for sure.

But it didn't have the spark American Idiot had. It's still relevant to the times and still a great album but American Idiot was a suprise that popped up at the right time in the right place. The AI single was catchy and in your face and had a driving meaning all at the same time. Sorry but Know Your Enemy is the weakest song on the album! (In my opinion)

Also I don't think people are as in tune to good music as they were a few years ago. I realize it's only a few years and it shouldn't make a difference, but I really think it does. Bad, souless pop music always has and always will exist but it's like people are too lazy to uncover/appriciate good music.

However, 21CB was a hit with the FANS, so I think that's all that matters in the end.

[Punk-tastic32]

21CB has the lyrical quality, but AI has the fist-pounding sound that hooks listeners that are not already fans. I think that is why they released KYE as the first single.

[ProstheticHeads]

I know lots of people say promotion, which is what I agree with, but something else to put out there was the music industry of these past 2 years, rock is very minimal these days, which is quite sad. Hence why 21 Guns, the lightest single, did the best. Also, I'm sure many people assumed after almost 5 years without a new album, people just lost interest. They thought "oh Green Days old now" and AI got old and they expected something new. Last thing, AI was more upbeat in the way of energy, all the singles were. KYE was, but just repetitive and imo, a lame music video. But AI had these cool effects (drumming slowly and fast bass-playing" and got attention from a song targeted towards America. I don't know why exactly the rest of the singles did so much better than 21CB's though, promotion aside. Also I think a fair amount of girls thought Billie was hot or something, and the new ones to crave over is Justin Bieber or Eminem or whatever.

[JohannaRaeRamone.]

5 years isn't unheard of or even uncommon for breaks between albums. Look at the beastir boys.

Very true. But in the frame of the popular music audience I think they have a short attention span. Nobody, non-Green Day fan, were probably waiting for something new and exciting and they didn't crack open the album with a ball-grabbing catchy single like American Idiot, so nobody cares. Which is just sad on the part of the audience but hey hey it's the modern age. : /

[gdpony]

5 years isn't unheard of or even uncommon for breaks between albums. Look at the beastir boys.

I feel the same way, It was ok for me to wait 5 years for another album, on the other hand my friends who liked green day, thought it was too much time, and some didnt even know they were still a band so ...

[Sharmellow]

I believe the main reason 21stCB didn't do as well as American Idiot was because of the shitty promotion by the label. When American Idiot came out, there was much more promoting done.

And someone might have mentioned this already, but the recession would also have played a role. Not everyone can afford to buy a Green Day album or concert tickets.

Lastly, most kids nowadays have shitty taste in music. They like Justin Bieber and all those hardcore pop artists. Many of them don't dig to find good music.

But, I'm just generalizing, I'm not saying all people are like that.

[Zero.]

I do think a lot of people looked at 21Cb with a groan and an eyeroll, since it was looked at as another "concept album," which may have negatively impacted peoples' opinions on it.

Yeah, totally agree

[Vaso.Of.Suburbia]

i think it's the material... 21st century breakdown is good, but american idiot is just uncomperable.... also it cant be the economy.... lady gaga has sold millions of albums.....

[darenmay]

american idiot had a perfect timing and it was well promoted. it was the album that was like a kind of surprise from green day, something new, as well as the boys changed their image.

people became curious about green day again and AI caused them millions of new fans. the singles from AI were kick-ass and the lyrics are just the best.

21st century breakdown was eaten by american idiot musical. its promotions were less. songs from 21st CB do not appeal much to the teens and young adults, and the album came together with lady gaga and justin bieber, lol.

i think american idiot has better songs than 21st century breakdown, musically and lyrically, that can be picked up easier by the listeners. in my opinion the lyrics for 21st CB are just too much, kinda metaphorical.

American Idiot was really something new for green day. 21st CB was not: people have already heard it with American Idiot.

[bat-chen]

american idiot had a perfect timing and it was well promoted. it was the album that was like a kind of surprise from green day, something new, as well as the boys changed their image.

people became curious about green day again and AI caused them millions of new fans. the singles from AI were kick-ass and the lyrics are just the best.

21st century breakdown was eaten by american idiot musical. its promotions were less. songs from 21st CB do not appeal much to the teens and young adults, and the album came together with lady gaga and justin bieber, lol.

i think american idiot has better songs than 21st century breakdown, musically and lyrically, that can be picked up easier by the listeners. in my opinion the lyrics for 21st CB are just too much, kinda metaphorical.

American Idiot was really something new for green day. 21st CB was not: people have already heard it with American Idiot.

I agree. I love 21CB but when AI came out it was something extraordinary. the world didn't heard from Green Day in a long time and suddenly they came with this amazing, unique album that Green Day never create before. So it was someting new, not only for the fans and the media but also, for Green Day themself.

21CB is a great album, I really love it but it just a continuation to AI... you can also call it Amerian Idiot 2.

[Schlappy]

along with everything everyone has said id say it also has to do with the timing of the release. when American idiot came out radio was being heavily censored and artists were afraid to put out controversial material in fear of being taken off the radio. so when American idiot come out openly protesting the current state of America and more pacifically prez Bush people were quick to join the rebellion. but now that Obama is president, there isnt as much resistance towards the government so less people care for the politics.

but i mostly think its because of the singles choices, i mean, a lot of people just buy singles and not full albums these days so theyre the only thing representing the album

[Mar]

21st century breakdown was eaten by american idiot musical. its promotions were less.

I've been saying this for a while. After September, it seemed as though anything related to 21CB was an afterthought, and everything became about the musical. I blame this pathetic excuse for a "summer US tour" on the musical, because I think the band spend so much time promoting it, working on it, whatever.

[vacation567]

I think it was their producer. They needed Rob Cavallo. And Personally the mixing wasn't as good as the other albums it sounded a little over mixed (did anyone else notice his Billie Joe's voice sounded much higher than American Idiot?) Also Rock Band & American Idiot did steal a lot of the spotlight, being big firsts in music. Last they picked the wrong singles. Know Your Enemy & Last of the American Girls are probably the worst they could have picked. They should have done an official single for East Jesus Nowhere instead.

[blitzkriegdeb]

Ugh, I'm sitting here watching the BOBD video, and it's still so mindblowing to me. Sam Bayer, where art thou?

I agree with the musical taking away some of the attention. Yeah, people were focusing on Green Day, but they were focusing on American Idiot, yet again. I think between this, Rock Band, and touring they kind of lost focus about 21st Century Breakdown. Not saying they forgot about it, obviously, but with the musical pulling questions and thoughts back towards American Idiot, the general public sort of forgot 21st Century Breakdown was out. Also, I agree with the thing about it being another concept album. I'll admit when I heard it was gonna be another concept album, I wasn't too thrilled, and I know alot of people who didn't want to give it the time of day for this reason. Plus, the storyline is more complicated then American Idiot, and requires more thought, which, lets face it, not alot of people wanna do.

I think they need to step away from the whole concept album thing. No more characters and storylines for a bit.

[Vrock09]

I know lots of people say promotion, which is what I agree with, but something else to put out there was the music industry of these past 2 years, rock is very minimal these days, which is quite sad. Hence why 21 Guns, the lightest single, did the best. Also, I'm sure many people assumed after almost 5 years without a new album, people just lost interest. They thought "oh Green Days old now" and AI got old and they expected something new. Last thing, AI was more upbeat in the way of energy, all the singles were. KYE was, but just repetitive and imo, a lame music video. But AI had these cool effects (drumming slowly and fast bass-playing" and got attention from a song targeted towards America. I don't know why exactly the rest of the singles did so much better than 21CB's though, promotion aside. Also I think a fair amount of girls thought Billie was hot or something, and the new ones to crave over is Justin Bieber or Eminem or whatever.

I completely agree, I think when American Idiot came out, it was perfect timing. If I remember right, it was an explosion of the rock music scene, with bands like Green Day, Fall Out Boy, and My Chemical Romance. They were all played constantly, but it seemed after a year or so, the scene just died, therefore there was no need for the newer records to be played on mainstream networks. Which is where I think 21st Century Breakdown ended up. I think people who are not "hardcore Green Day fans" didn't hear a "pop-friendly" song like they did for American Idiot, so the album faltered because of lack of interest. Not to mentioned Warner's failure in promotion. I swear I saw ten times more promotion for the musical than 21stCB. I had a friend who didnt even know GD had released a new record until she got interested again because of the musical.

Overall, it was bad timing, bad promotion, and wrong single choices to release. Which is sad because 21stCB was a gem. It was a great record, in some ways I think it was better, lyrically, than AI or any other album that they've done. It is the same with touring, Some of the shows that during the AI tour were sold out, are now having tens of seats left. But there was no promotion. Back when AI was out, there were commercials on tv months in advance.

So basically Warner fucked them on the promotion end. But I think most of it just lies in really really bad timing. But hopefully next album will be different and in the end the album did very good. And I think those who havent heard the album in full or are not interested this time around...well that's their loss.

[Izzard]

Sadly all bands start to fade after some time. Green Day have had a great career, and have kept a really strong fan base...which is rare these days it seems.

I'm not trying to say Green Day have faded out... because that would be a big fat lie. But they have been around for quite some time.

And when it comes to record sales and all that kind of crap 21st CB has done pretty darn tootin' well. And like I said...there wasn't as much hype surrounding this record as there was to American idiot.

So meh...I bought the CD and the Vinyl. 21 CB rocks!

[Mar]

I completely agree, I think when American Idiot came out, it was perfect timing. If I remember right, it was an explosion of the rock music scene, with bands like Green Day, Fall Out Boy, and My Chemical Romance. They were all played constantly, but it seemed after a year or so, the scene just died, therefore there was no need for the newer records to be played on mainstream networks.

It's such a shame that Green Day got caught up in that "Emo" scene, because, and I mean no disrespect to people who are big fans of the genre/FOB/MCR, but the band does not belong in that category. Their music was unfairly grouped with the "emo" scene in 2004-06, and then when that scene died, as you said, Green Day kind of got caught up in the death and subsequent backlash of that.

[McNavdo]

The biggest thing that always bothered me was calling the album 21st Century Breakdown. Alot of the casual fans might of thought that this was a repeat of American Idiot without hearing the songs cos it was about the Bush administration and it was Bush that contributed to what some people believe was a 21st century breakdown which started between 2000 and 2004 with 9/11 and the war on terror.

I also think alot of people can't blame songs like 21 Guns as with most rock bands it is the acoustic/ballads that are their biggest singles because they appeal to the wide audience. You just need to look at bands like Bon Jovi, Nickelback, The Beatles, Aerosmith etc and you will see that their biggest songs have all been either an acoustic song or a ballad simply cos thats what more people want to hear

[dawn71]

In my opinion I think the biggest reason that American Idiot was bigger and sold more albums and

received more publicity was because they were the first band to stand up and write and sing

about the terrible state our Country was in and they were not afraid to say why our

Country was so fucked up. At the time they put the album American Idiot out there were

radio stations banning certain artists from being played on their stations because they said

something bad about our President and were considered unpatriotic. Even though all of that was going on

Green Day didn't care what the backlash would be, they were going to stand up and speak

out against all the crazy shit going on in the U.S. They spoke the truth and were like

fuck President Bush he was one of the biggest reasons our Country was in such turmoil.

The timing of the album American Idiot was perfect because Americans were angry & starting to see the

truth and were hungry for someone to stand up and say fuck this shit and we are not going to take it

anymore. The album American Idiot was the embodiment of how the Nation was feeling. Green Day

made people feel like it was ok to stand up and say we don't like what's happening and made

everyone feel like it was ok to want something different and to stand up and make a difference

and to speak up and speak out against what was going wrong in this Country and to expect

change. Bush and his fucking phantom weapons of mass destruction putting us in a war

with Iraq and Soldiers losing their lives for something that never existed. I was a Soldier

and I am in a wheelchair now because of that shit. When I first heard the album American Idiot

I was like fucking yes, finally someone speaking out about this shit. So, I think a big reason

that American Idiot did better than 21st Century Breakdown is because Green Day came out

with an album that everyone could relate to and the lyrics were the exact sentiments we were all

feeling about the times we were living in. I love 21st Century Breakdown a lot but when it came out

our Country was heading down a new path and change with a new President and a new sense of

hope for the world we live in and people were no longer afraid to speak out unlike before American

Idiot came out. I personally like 21st Century Breakdown more than American Idiot, but that's

my opinion. I love all of Green Day's music. To me there is no bad Green Day songs. I love them all.

I have been a fan since 1991 and will always be.

[Punk-tastic32]

I'm actually kinda happy that 21CB hasn't reached AI's status. It really weeds out all the "I'm just here because I have money and I liked that one song about that stuff.." type-fans.

21CB itself is a great album, but unfortunately, it will always be compared to AI and may forever say in its predecessor's shadow.

Now so many people are buying singles in iTunes and whatever, the only think "Green Day, um, KYE, 21Guns, LOTAG.. pass" Instead of the old school "This album looks good. Let's see if I like the rest of the 'not-so-famous songs"