Why do you think 21CB didn't do as well as American Idiot?

[Ellenkc]

Why didn't Insomniac do as well as Dookie? Same issue different albums. They were both different than their predecessor and had less promotion, perhaps on purpose as maybe the band wanted to stay away from the constant media attention they got from AI. It was also a more mature side of Green Day with a more classic/stadium rock feel to it, which resulted in the 'it's not real Green Day' claim made thousands of times. American Idiot was released at the right time, the world needed some musicians that could speak out about all the crap going on with Bush and Green Day delivered. 21CB didn't have that impact no matter how relevent it may be, for example The Static Age sums up American media fairly well from my experience of it.

American idiot was embraced by the 10-15 age group which gave it a pretty huge boost in my opinion, most of that age group is now listening to Justin Bieber and Miley Cyrus. Although 21 Guns did get Green Day alot of attention from the younger fans, it didn't seem to get the album as much attention.

We can argue reasons all we want but 21CB was never going to sell as much as AI, bands usually only make that big of an album once in their career and Green Day did it twice. 21CB sold well as an individual album, just not compared to AI.

[klytaemnestra]

The actual album - to people willing to invest time in it, 21CB is a rewarding listen. To others, it probably sounds along the same lines as AI.

i think there's a lot of truth in this. i'm a diehard green day fan, as most of my friends and such know, and i was discussing american idiot vs. 21st century breakdown with a boy i know a week or so ago, and he said 21cb was boring, but american idiot wasn't. i, personally, love both albums. but i think to a casual listener of green day, 21st century breakdown sounds like the slower songs off american idiot. i think a song like peacemaker should have been a single if they wanted to make this album huge; it'd be a risk because it's so different, but lady gaga did "different" and look how big she is now.

i do think a lot of the success depends on the timing of the release, too.

[mechanicalman]

Probably because it was a bit rubbish. As opposed to American Idiot, which was rather good.

[Marki.]

I agree with the bad promotion...and I think that after the HUGE success of American Idiot, 21st CB just couldn't be as big as AI was - and still is, like people before me already said, AI musical (and Rock Band) grab a lot of attention and that might be one of the reasons why 21st CB didn't do as well as it could do, imo.

However, I'm happy with this era, because the band isn't everywhere like they were during AI. Like in magazines, TV and stuff, they're less exposed now, (that's how I feel in France anyway). And the band doesn't seem to care about its image. And everything happens live. To me they're currently the best live band that exists. I mean, look at these almost 3-hour long shows and setlists! They also take requests, put a lot a of old songs...

Ok, 21st CB didn't do as well as AI (and it was to be expected), but they remain at their best.

Totally agree with this. =)

And I also agree that the next album should be more like AI than 21st CB. I think they should go 'back' a little bit...Idk, maybe it shouldn't be another rock-opera...maybe it should. But I believe that they'll do what they think is best - if they feel like continuing in the direction of 21st CB, they'll do it. And that's what we all love about them, right?

[klytaemnestra]

Why didn't Insomniac do as well as Dookie? Same issue different albums. They were both different than their predecessor and had less promotion, [...] We can argue reasons all we want but 21CB was never going to sell as much as AI, bands usually only make that big of an album once in their career and Green Day did it twice. 21CB sold well as an individual album, just not compared to AI.

this is also pretty much my thoughts on the subject.

[oneofthemrazorbacks]

It was always going to be difficult to be as better, if not better than, AI, as it was such an incredible and ground breaking album for the band. The new album, as has been mentioned on the Static Noise podcast, hasn't been promoted very well at all (I think I've seen two adverts for the album since it was released). The economy could have something do with it, although I don't think it would make all that much of a difference. Another point is that most people download illegally (downloading Green Day for FREE? Bastards! ) so yeah, that could have had an impact. I do agree that maybe American Idiot was the stronger album, but the band weren't helped with the release of the album.

[Moffie]

There were times when they didn't stop playing 21 Guns on the radio. And I recently hear LOTAG a few times a day, too.

I thik it depends on the radio stations in the area. They pick what to play and what they think the audience would want. The audience I'm stuck to be assumed with tend to like things like Lady Gaga and don't want to listen to Green Day. Hence, why I've only heard one single once.

[PasalacquaBomb]

Another point is that most people download illegally (downloading Green Day for FREE? Bastards! ) so yeah, that could have had an impact.

I think downloading stuff illegally was much more a topic when American Idiot was released.

[colour_me_stupid_]

Well, it was always going to be very difficult to emulate American Idiot, but in my opinion the 2 main reasons 21st Century Breakdown didn't do as well were the promotion of it and the fact that 21st Century Breakdown's first single didn't have much of an impact, therefore people wouldn't have had as much interest in buying 21st Cdentury Breakdown.

That's not including Green Day fans who would obviously buy it anyway, but American Idiot as a single was everywhere. Know Your Enemy, not so much. A lot of people hear a song on the radio they like and decide to buy the album.

Then there's the obvious that any promotion and advertising for 21st Century Breakdown was practically non-existent compared to American Idiot.

It's a shame really, because 21st Century Breakdown is an amazing album, and deserves much more credit and praise than it already has recieved.

[Nele]

With AI Green Day changed their whole image. Some people probably thought they were a new cool band and bought their album after hearing BOBD or one of the other catchy singles.

Then there was this long period without any news and I guess a few of the former fans grew out of them or something simmilar. Know Your Enemy was the worst choice as a first single.. ever. It's a pretty faint and repetive song. Maybe catchy but I can imagine that some people found the song annoying. I remember when bits of the song got played during a basketball game or something and most people in the comment section went "that sux!!". Most of my classmates are also highly annoyed by 21 Guns, even if they like some AI songs.

The promotion was pretty shit as well, most people here already mentioned that. I saw one poster, only one and a few weeks later the whole town was paved with Jonas Brothers posters.

I even met some fans at a Green Day concert who just listened to the album once before the show.

I think downloading stuff illegally was much more a topic when American Idiot was released.

It's always a subject... People always do it. about 50% of the music on my computer was downloaded illegally. (I'm such a bad girl. )

[oneofthemrazorbacks]

I think downloading stuff illegally was much more a topic when American Idiot was released.

You're probably correct, I have no idea. But I'm sure illegal downloading has increased in popularity since 2004. Just a point

[greendepent]

I think that that the people was waiting for something like a "boom", like American idiot was. All the eyes was put in Green Day

The expectative was too high, theres the reason why theres so many people are dissapointed right now. The promotion is ok, in may of 2009 you can see Green Day almost anywhere, and I think thats enough, there's no reason to being too mediatic.

The singles are right, since Green Day wants give us a message, more than selling, more than a surprise.

[Bastard of 1967]

Good topic...a few thoughts:

1. Promotion and single choice basically sucked various unmentionable parts of a donkey. The most successful single on the album was 21 Guns -- a *ballad* for chrissake. The schizophrenic release of 21CB in one part of the world and EJN in another sure didn't help either. Either song could have done well on its own, but throwing both out there at the same time, one with a shit-kicking video and one with that pieced-together concert footage? !?!?

2. I think 21CB is Green Day's best album from an overall artistic perspective....looser, more ambiguous storyline with layer upon layer upon layer of meaning, cross-references between songs, songs that talk to each other as well as within each other, real esoteric stuff like one would expect to see from Peter Gabriel and the like. But lost in this was some of the emotional pull that the more direct, more violently expressive AI songs had. The album also takes more thought, more intense "brain-work" before it starts to click, to make sense. Many folks don't want to do that.

3. "Obama's president now, therefore the world's all fixed" rendered the messages in 21CB irrelevant. ('Til, well, now I suppose?)

4. Production. Butch Vig did some things that made Green Day sound great, but also took something away from part of their music in his production techniques. Take 21 Guns for example...lift it out of the album, rework some of the instrumentals, and throw a professional chorus in to back up Billie (the broadway cast) and it takes the song to an entirely new level. Also I really didn't like how he muffled Mike's bass lines in many of the tracks. That's one key element of Green Day's overall sound, but Butch shifted the range up a bit and mixed it so far into the background that you can barely hear it.

[Ilda_25]

I thik it depends on the radio stations in the area. They pick what to play and what they think the audience would want. The audience I'm stuck to be assumed with tend to like things like Lady Gaga and don't want to listen to Green Day. Hence, why I've only heard one single once.

I agree with this. Here it happens the same. For example, the only song from 21st Century Breakdown that I hear on the radio is '21 guns'. And the album has more nice songs.

But I also think that the political context that AI had, helped its huge success. It was released in the right time, in the right place, with the right songs. And it would be very difficult (or even impossible) to equalize it.

[Clayish]

A lot of 21st Century Breakdown hate here. :/

[Moffie]

A lot of 21st Century Breakdown hate here. :/

I don't see any hate. Just discussion on why American Idiot was more successful with the overall public.

[CaesarSalad]

"know your enemy" is an annoying song, and it was always playing on at least one radio station. i know the rest of the world is not like me, but KYE set the tone for me and i did not like the tone.

[Kayfabe]

What they lacked in album sales, they more than made up for in expansion. This was the era of musical, video game, clothes collaborations with Billabong etc.

I can't say I dislike commercialised Green Day. Really can't.

[gdpony]

The promotion for this album sucked period.

The music is great, it is even more ambitious than AI, but they failed to promote it. I remember when AI came out, it was all over the place, TV, radio stations, every single music store in the country, but with 21CB it was so different, I knew the album came out the 15th in the states, but I had no idea when it would get here, and one day I just walked into a store and found the album! there was no fuss about it, nothing, not even a poster, so yeah ... I blame it all on the promotion! if it hant been for GDA, I would've never known about the album!

also, I think they could've done better choosing the singles, all the songs on the album are great, but some songs would've appealed more to the audience.

it shoul've been:

EJN

H&H

21 guns

either of the Glorias

before the lobotomy or 21st century breakdown

[Comedy & Tragedy]

I think a lot of it had to do with the singles that were released. For American Idiot, the singles/videos all showed what the album was about. The spirit of rebellion, emotion, confusion, frustration, are all summed up in those 5 songs.

As for 21st Century Breakdown, the best songs stayed hidden and not promoted. Know Your Enemy is a great song, but not the best song to show "Green Day is BACK!". 21 Guns and 21st Century Breakdown showed what the album was trying to say. I think not making a video for East Jesus Nowhere was a bad decision. That song had so much potential to be really memorable. Last Of the American Girls, despite being a great song (and I mean that), it was a lousy choice for a single.

I think songs on the album like the Viva La Glorias, American Eulogy, Before the Lobotomy and Peacemaker really show the variety on the album, but are just hidden away.

Another thing: when people heard about 21st Century Breakdown, and what it was about, people immediately started thinking it was just another American Idiot. Before hearing the album and judging it, they thought "American Idiot was a shock to the world, this is just gonna be the same". This means that a lot of the meaning to the songs is just overlooked, and seen as "The same as the last one", even though this album has much more complex meanings to it.

As for the actual album material, I think the songs were amazing, but it was very polished. I know that Green Day aren't exactly the messed-up sounding sorta band they were when they were on Lookout!, but in a few songs, Billie's voice is altered quite a bit, and it just sounds a bit, I dunno...it didn't go down with well with the old school Green Day fans.

It's a shame, because it's one of their best albums.

[Holly Ann]

Pretty much what the majority of people here have said.

The spotlight was taken away from it due to other big things happening like AI musical and GD RB.

People in general are also straight away judging it against American Idiot, which I think is stupid.

American Idiot was released at the best time possible, and it was a surprise, because a lot of people had really forgotten about Green Day by then and they had just came back with a blast and it was all wooooo.

Now it's like omfgggggggggg this isn't as good as AI!

Well, that's from a nubz point of view.

[alaniluau]

2. I think 21CB is Green Day's best album from an overall artistic perspective....looser, more ambiguous storyline with layer upon layer upon layer of meaning, cross-references between songs, songs that talk to each other as well as within each other, real esoteric stuff like one would expect to see from Peter Gabriel and the like. But lost in this was some of the emotional pull that the more direct, more violently expressive AI songs had. The album also takes more thought, more intense "brain-work" before it starts to click, to make sense. Many folks don't want to do that.

This was the point I was going to make. American Idiot is more of a simple, catchy album, while 21CB has more layers and an orchestral sound. Also, AI has fairly blunt lyrics, while Breakdown's are laced with double meanings and trickier to understand. I think most listeners, including the tweens who account for a large portion of music sales, don't want to listen to an album over and over again to find joy in the subtleties. At the present time, most people want a catchy tune they can dance to, which is why artists such as Lady Gaga and Kesha have exploded with popularity.

In addition, obviously people are going to want another AI just like how some still want another Dookie. A lot of the fans that came in during the 2004 era were probably unhappily surprised that 21CB didn't sound exactly like the Green Day from 5 years ago. But that's what I love about the boys--they don't make the same record repeatedly.

Of course, the substandard promotion did nothing to help, but I don't think it was the root cause of this album's lesser sales.

[Mrs. Nobody]

Lack of promotion (yes repeating it for the billionth time)

I also agree on KYE as a first single. I don't think I'm the only here who doesn't like this song much, and I remember people saying - and I agree with this - "sounds a bit like ..." (AC/DC came to my mind)

It wasn't a big impact.

I was pretty ignorant (and young) when AI came out, but EVERYONE knew the singles. You could hear people humming them, all the radios were playing BOBD or Holiday. I've literally heard 21 guns being played in a shop once. And not since.

Also, this sounds silly but, American Idiot. Just the name. It's in your face. I certainly remember thinking "wow, that's kind of ~mad".

I also think that they're other fresher acts out there, and people being more preoccupied by them. Lady Gaga, typically.

[Moffie]

I see the music video for Viva La Gloria? (Little Girl) in my head and it is fucking amazing. I don't get why the Powers That Be didn't make one of the Viva La Glorias a single or make a video for it. Just...ugh!

LOVED the orchestrations for 21CB and I think they made a wise choice in asking Tom Kitt to help them out with it. Like Bastard of 1967 said, no one wants to listen to a whole album a bunch of times to get the beauty of it unless you love the band or something. This generation is too lazy/too hyper to do that.

[Bubbles.]

Why didn't Insomniac do as well as Dookie? Same issue different albums.

We can argue reasons all we want but 21CB was never going to sell as much as AI, bands usually only make that big of an album once in their career and Green Day did it twice. 21CB sold well as an individual album, just not compared to AI.

This, pretty much.

2. I think 21CB is Green Day's best album from an overall artistic perspective....looser, more ambiguous storyline with layer upon layer upon layer of meaning, cross-references between songs, songs that talk to each other as well as within each other

3. "Obama's president now, therefore the world's all fixed" rendered the messages in 21CB irrelevant. ('Til, well, now I suppose?)

4. Production. Butch Vig did some things that made Green Day sound great, but also took something away from part of their music in his production techniques.

Well the reasons mentioned above, and the reason I keep seeing mentioned before - The choice of singles.

As much as I love all the songs on the album, the choice of singles could and should have been waay better.

The only single choices I really loved were Last Of The American Girls and 21st Century Breakdown.

I think that songs like Viva La Gloria/The Static Age/Before The Lobotomy would have done really well as singles.

And of course, shit promotion.