Did Green Day sell out?

[FilmAdaptation]

We all almost done with this mindless drivel?

[GuitarPlayer5]

We all almost done with is mindless drivel?

.........I think so....................yep..........

[IWantYourBabies]

Yeah, maybe they did sell out. But at least they aren't Kanye West.

[Annie.]

Freedom of Speech; not Freedom of Typing

wanker, you're indicating that people who cannot speak have no right to type?

[Annie.]

People that leave a band because of overmarketing and not because they dont like their music anymore is just ..uhm.......well..... .. . stupid. You dont quite seem to understand how the music industry works. You dont answer direct questions such as dumbstruck27's. What would you do if your career was in jeopardy? (even tho i never once read they were almost dropped, so until you incite something factual I'm not gonna believe what you first said there either.) If you listen to the NY times talk interview and Q & A's you will hear Billie Joes answer to that question about merchandising and marketing.I have green day socks! They are comfy. I bet Billie bought a new guitar with the money he made from those socks.No you havent changed anyones opinion. Green Day and the record label are two seperate things here. You do understand that right?? As to why dont they move to Adeline, haha. That is plain silly. Do you have any idea how many people have jobs because of Green Day? There is absolutely no way they could manage themselves at this point. Which is what they would be doing if they moved to Adeline.

I choose not to respect someone when they are morally wrong. it's the same reason why one would not choose to listen to Britney even if she sounded awesome.read the interview with Kerrang! mag when the AI album first came out.oh and that Q&A's reminded me.. why are they charging their own fans money JUST to know a bit of Q&A that should be available for all fans to listen to? why the exclusion of fans who can't access internet or who can't pay the membership fee themselves? looks like more money-weaseling to me.and it's funny, the Network manages themselves fine.

Yeah, maybe they did sell out. But at least they aren't Kanye West.

yeah, and at least Kanye isn't Hitler. yeah that's cool.

[GuitarPlayer5]

wanker, you're indicating that people who cannot speak have no right to type?

Welcome to baking with GuitarPlayer5

1) take 100% of what i said

2) throw in some sarcasm (2 tablespoons)

3) mix

4) your end result is a beautiful delicious sarcastic remark that you should take more lightly

[Annie.]

I didn't come here to oppress or brainwash anybody, I just came here for some decent discussion (and not to read what other people have already discussed some many months ago. hence, the ability to post opinion.)

I came HERE because some people here know exactly what I mean and half of them know exactly where I'm coming from. that's something you can pretty much get nowhere else cuz I've had enough conversing with ex-GD fans.

What I was hoping to get was to receive a response that justifies what GD has done in terms of cheating money out of fans. all I can conclude so far, is that you all have the same attitude to what I had merely a year ago. defensive, undecided, refusing to believe the truth-- the more intelligent of you have surely looked at your favourite poster of them in frustration, procrastinating on what they really are to you.

as I said, I'm not here to persuade. everything I do is for the greater good and here, I've intended to spark debate between fans who know the guys as well as a fan can know them. in my benefit, I wanted to hear some opinion that I haven't heard before. (still waiting)

as someone who dares say they were the biggest fan ever (tho others would compete), I WANT to stay loyal to Green Day. but for that, I needed a reason to. that's why I'm talking in a forum where fans have stayed long.

P.S-- to fully understand where I'm coming from, get into some underground punk. as silly as it sounds, you'll understand the core and full ethics of punk and that it's not what everyone think it is. you'll see that GD's only scratched the surface of a lotta things whereas others have taken the full extent. it's not the fact that the music was different and sometimes better, it was the fact that it opened my eyes and made me look at things more ethically.

that said, you don't have to listen to real/underground punk-- that's just an easier route. the harder route is to look at them not as a devout fan, but more ethically and take into consideration on what's fair and what's not. it's not your taste in music that'll be affected, but how you respect the guys as people.

I don't care about changing others' opinion, I only opposingly argue to spark the type of debate where opinions are open-minded, levelled-out and that maybe it would lead to some sort of understanding on the matter; whether you take in some understanding is up to your capacity on being open-minded.

[**nobodylikesyou**]

Do you honestly think comparing Green Day to the Network is even remotely fair?

Green Day=Huge, massive, world known

Network = None of the above.

I would understand if what you were saying had any truth to it at all, but I just dont see any validity to what youre saying.

I disagree with your statement that Green Day is cheating their fans.

I dont think you can have a band as big as this behave as a tiny punk band anymore when they are so mainstream, they music industry wont allow it.

I dont think you consider how the music industry runs.

They are mainstream because people love their music, and their music is good. Not because they are trying to be.

I dont think you are interested in having an open minded discussion.

[Mato]

Stupid question. They DIDN'T sell out. And they never will. They were always themself, and they will always be.

[bat-chen]

OMG! it's came back. I frogot about this topic...

I think everyone in there own opinion. some convinced that there sellout in some are not. I convinced that there not sell out but I'm not going to try and change someone ells opinion. I tried once and it's not working.

[Mato]

OMG! it's came back. I frogot about this topic...

I think everyone in there own opinion. some convinced that there sellout in some are not. I convinced that there not sell out but I'm not going to try and change someone ells opinion. I tried once and it's not working.

Smart.

[Viva La Junkpile]

Okie. I feel like eliminating some of the "sell-out reasons":

Eyeliner:

-Billie can be seen wearing it as far back as 1992

-They're older, and DO have some pretty tired looking eyes at this point

-Most of their musical influences wore eyeliner. If you don't believe me, I suggest you look further into punk & glam music than the easy-access bands like The Ramones, The Sex Pistols, etc...

Idiot Club costs:

-the 20$ helps pay for making the merch, keep the site up & have all the little "exclusives"

-MANY fan clubs cost money; be lucky theirs is only YEARLY

-the Idiot Club existed for a LONG time now. It's just online and easier and more worth it than it used to be

Clothing:

-they still wear some of their old clothes often, but you can't expect ADULTS to wear the same stuff they did as a teenager. There's size factors, wear 'n' tear, etc...

-why would they want to dress like everyother stereotype out there?

-they're talking about important issues, and most won't take them seriously if they look like they have a Peter Pan complex

Money:

-wow. They make money. Well, so do the Sex Pistols (obviously not when they first started), but don't think for a second bands like them didn't cash in on the punk look

-they donate a lot of their money & use a lot on their music career- I'm not denying they use it on luxuries, though

Attitude:

-they still joke around, but you can't expect them to act like children their WHOLE lives

-they are becoming more concious to the fact that they set an example for their younger viewers (and having their own kids probably aided in that conciousness)

American Idiot:

-American Idiot makes MANY references to their past, and East Bay bands slang

-it is not their first time having *political* songs/views... listen to a few older interviews, and you'll see they make some political statements (and I'm not only talking about Warning)

-this album is more about society than politics...infact, it's not ABOUT politics at all, it only takes place in present times (which happens to be more political than in the past because of certain events)

Major label:

-Tre:"Well, do you like the Clash and the Ramones?, 'yeaah'... They're on a major label..."

-Elvis Costello: "That's like buying a box of cereal and eating the cardboard..."

-major labels gives a band the opportunity to get their music out there, I think some people who complain about this better think about how many of their favorite artists they wouldn't even known about if they weren't on major labels. And the "indie" bands that are being recognized now, are only noticed by the media now because they realized just how many goldmines they've pulled out of independant labels and onto major ones.

Merchandise:

-once a band gives the copyrights to someone, they can do whatever they want with the picture or whatever their using to make the merch... the band only gets money from handing over the copyrights, not a certain percent per item sold

-there are MANY people that don't follow the copyright laws and make their own merch to sell

Cookie-cutter bands left in their wake:

-yes there are many cookie-cutter "punk" bands because of Green Day...they all sound a like, yet none of them sound like Green Day (I've noticed all those bands like- I won't mention because I know some like them- have VERY similar vocals to one another). Green Day are a special combination of all those old-time punk bands from the 70s, with a splash of Britpop, like The Beatles. These bands, sound like XEROXES of Green Day, and because of this...it's ultra watered down.

-can a band really help if others are influenced by them? No. What you should be angry about, is all those idiots who like the cookie-cutter bands that are influenced by Green Day, but don't like Green Day as much/at all.

"Mainstream":

-give me a break. Punk has been "mainstream" since it first became commercial in '77. But when the 80s came along, some hardcoreons decided they wanted to hide their broken scene underground again, then Green Day broke that when they were discovered.

-it's not Green Day's fault that they RENEWED punk into the public eye. It's not their fault punk was forgotten in the 80s.

-most of you probably wouldn't even know what punk is if it weren't for Green Day. They caused a sudden burst in punk album sales because of their success

"Pop-Punk":

-I just don't understand this *category* of punk.. I mean, Green Day sound more like OLD punk bands like The Buzzcocks, The Ramones, etc...(if you look back at most of the first few punk bands, you'll find Green Day sound more like them). So WHY, if they sound like the ORIGINAL punk bands, should they be called "pop punk"? It should be just "PUNK", whether it sounds more melodic than the stereotypical (80s stuff- which for some reason is the stereotype *shifty eyes* I don't understand that either) hardcore-type punk.

Any more arguements? Just remind me of what I forgot to add. Trust me when I say you can't win against me when it comes to what's punk and this "selling out" bull*spit*. I'm obsessive, and have studied punk for years. I know basically everything about the scene (with some inside help), and know all the awesome old punk bands. And if anyone wants me to suggest anything to them, I'll be happy to oblige.

By the by: I do not claim to be "punk"; I'm just one of it's biggest fans....not so much the 80s "underground" macho punk.

[GuitarPlayer5]

*claps*

[Viva La Junkpile]

*claps*

Ha. *bows* As I've said; remind me if I missed anything...

[IAmARevenant]

I honestly could not care less. Whether they did or not doesn't matter to me. I'll stop liking them when their MUSIC turns to shit, which it hasn't yet.

[**nobodylikesyou**]

hmmm, i suppose i should post the pm's that annie was sending me since this is back...............

[Jack.K]

Go ahead.

[Amanda]

I think that particular scratched record has had all the play it needed.

[**nobodylikesyou**]

to not bring that thread back anymore..

Do you honestly think comparing Green Day to the Network is even remotely fair?

Green Day=Huge, massive, world known

Network = None of the above.

Comparing them in terms of how well they can manage, yes. Many big bands go fine on an indie and with the fanbase they already have, it's not like the fans will leave them if they move to Adeline.

I disagree with your statement that Green Day is cheating their fans.

Are you suggesting that since the new market, these GD undies, shoelaces, socks etc. have a purpose to the GD business? Tshirts are fine cos they're for fans to promote a band.. but the only purpose highly priced underwear would have is to earn GD quick, easy cash. and GD is hardly a business whose purpose is to clothe bare butts.

Since their new rich teen market, they've realised they've become a big thing in music fans.. so they've decided to cash in on it while they can. They think that if you're such a big fan, you'd probably buy ANYTHING (whatever quality, whatever it might be, whatever it's actually worth) that has Green Day on it. teens of developed countries are rich, gullible and they value material things.

I dont think you can have a band as big as this behave as a tiny punk band anymore when they are so mainstream, they music industry wont allow it.

since when does merch make a band part of the music industry? excessive amounts of it? I for one, don't recall even seeing a single U2 tshirt before.. and they're way more overrated than Green Day.

I dont think you consider how the music industry runs.

If you seem to know, then I'm sure you know that it's an unfair, fickle business; one of the biggest corporate whores in the modern world.

They are mainstream because people love their music, and their music is good. Not because they are trying to be.

hey, I never said mainstream was a bad thing either.

I dont think you are interested in having an open minded discussion.

lol, and you're especially open-minded when you post something in reply that states that I've said things when.. I haven't.

[Watoosh]

For some reason I have to urge to listen to "Dookie" right now. I haven't seen the CD in ages, though. Hmmm...

[Mato]

No, they didin't.

[greendea]

i don't think they will ever do it! they're totally punk!

[bjrules]

They didnt sell out. End of story

[Cassie.]

I think...to some extent they did. But it is a huge debate like, someone will say they sold out when they made AI or even when they played on american idol, where some people might see that as a lot of hard work going into making an awesome album and trying to get their music out to more people by making it a bit more mainstream. I don't really care though. Music is music and if I like the sound of it I'll listen to it regardless of why it was made.

i don't think they will ever do it! they're totally punk!

FUCK YEAH!!!

[RebelofSuburbia]

I really don't think Green Day sold out. When they started working on American Idiot, they really had no idea what direction it was gonna take them. It was something completely new for them (the rockopera thing and writing 9-minute songs) but to them it felt good and to them it felt like Green Day. If Green Day says their work felt like something Green Day, who are we to say it's not Green Day? So by the time they finished American Idiot, GD were totally excited about it coming out, but it was also terrifying for them in the way that they had no idea how people would take it, if they'd be slagged to death for it or not. Yet they still stuck to writing and finishing that record, thereby standing up for what they believed was the right thing to do at that time. The fact so many people appreciated that record and their believes, does not make Green Day sellouts. It just makes them succesfull artists who've managed to make a kickass record that shared thoughts and feelings with many people.

If they really were sellouts, they would have stuck to writing songs about masturbation and adolescence, because it's proven to be highly succesfull before.

And I also think that if Green Day's main goal was to make as much money as possible with their music, we would've had at least 2 new albums by now. :]