Did Green Day sell out?

[MusicalDeviant]

Why does anyone still ask if they sold out? What does selling out even mean? From what I've heard and seen, the fame, admiration, and money that came with signing to reprise has not made Green Day any worse than they were. In fact, they're better then they were. And it gave them the money so that they could send their kids to the best schools, live in the best neighborhoods. And by signing to a major label, they got more global attention, meaning they have the power to help the world, and to change it for the better.

If selling out means you get paid what you deserve for bringing happiness to the world, and you get the best quality producers in the business to bring out the best of your music, then I want to sell out. The more money you have behind your album, the more places it can be distributed to, so you can spread happiness to more people everywhere. Wow, so evil.

Fuck starving artists, because they tend to be self absorbed loads that think they are above everyone else and the rest of society, but deep down all they want is for everyone else to think they're enduring and cool for choosing to stay poor. Fuckwads is what they are.

[Annie.]

you can't compare rancid to green day.sure, they came from the same area and scene, but that's where any and all comparisons end.enormous success for rancid? yeah, right. i think i heard "time bomb" on the radio once like 3 years ago.

you seem to be one of those people who think that radio success means success in life. Billie said it himself, influence is more than radioplay can say.

um, hello? RHCP have fucking onesies, and Johnny Rotten himself and the rest of the Sex Pistols (plus the Ramones and Clash) have action figures... you shouldn't judge a band based on their merch. Im pretty sure they don't ask companies to make alarm clocks of them, I'm pretty sure it's the companies that are using their success, they don't ask of that. And your comment about how they signed to a major to get successful is bull crap, Livermore himself said he was GLAD they signed because Lookout wasn't able to handle the demand... and tons of bands are successful AND on indie labels (The Living End, Gogol Bordello, etc...) I think Green Day made the right decision signing to Reprise, Lookout couldn't handle them...and ended up screwing them later...

you've just named yourself some other awesome bands whose fans agree went a bit sour when they released useless and unneccessary merch. and how can you be pretty sure the boys had no say in what their merchline is?and NOfuckingWHERE did I oppose GD signing to a major.

why don't you go put on "...and out come the wolves" and not come back for a while?

:)you're just scared to admit the truth. you make up defenses and excuses to justify why you still love the music but maybe not what they do. I know because I, and many other fans, used to be just like you guys. and it broke my heart when I finally realised what I was refusing to see.

[FilmAdaptation]

I hated a lot about the AI era, and while a lot of it was out of their control, a lot also wasn't. Whether or not they've "sold out," I gone back and forth (not that the term really has meaning anymore). Have I felt like a lost a lot of my connection with them since then? Yes. Is that worse? Yes.

[Annie.]

^ I like that idea armatageshanks, maybe Armstrong will shut her up... and if she's hating Green Day so much, why join this forum? She has the right to and everything, but I just find it stupid...

dearie, if you read my posts you wouldn't be so ignorant as you are just then. me hating GD has NADA to do with what I'm talking about. and ykno what? I don't hate GD. LOLI knew some twat would start whining "oooh, if you hate GD .. then don't come here!"

Actually, they live in Oakland.

isn't that place the butt-end of Calif? I suppose it's better than living in LA

[FilmAdaptation]

isn't that place the butt-end of Calif? I suppose it's better than living in LA

I can think of many worse places in California, and I'm sure they live in one of the nicer areas of the city.

[Green_Clash]

Green Day didn't sell out, they bought in.

(Kudos if you got that reference.)

[Ash]

Look, who gives a fuck.

I personally think Green day sold out.

But i still like most of their records.

Music is music.

Get the fuck over yourselves.

agreed

[Annie.]

actually, bands make VERY little money off of merch, it mostly goes to the company selling the merch... and at shows, the merch goes to the venue, at least in GD's case...

LOL- you did not just say that. the MOST a band earns is out of merchandise. come back to me when you get your facts right.the TICKET profits go toward the venue. that's why they vary depending how big the venue is. at a show, more than half of what's earned is from merch-selling alone.

okay, maybe i didn't make myself clear enough. as far as i can tell, they're in it for the music and nothing else. sure, you're gonna get money, but face it. just cuz a band makes an awesome album which sells millions of copies, doesn't mean they've sold out.i think i can remember reading somewhere that the band don't have any decision about the merch. and like Kelly & Wes said, how does the merch affect the music?

I think even ppl who post here often would agree that GD’s in it more than just the music. if they weren’t, then they’d be on Adeline and not Reprise by now. and awesome album selling millions= that’s ok, I never went against thatoh and if you can actually remember where they said that, and posted it here, I’d be inclined to be proven wrong. in the meantime, I don’t believe you.merch don’t affect music, but it sure gives ya lots to spend with.

i'm gonna keep saying it until you answer

man, you’re impatient aren’t you? wait your turn.what GD have done is this: be the awesome musicians they are, make the awesome album they have--à realise how much momentum it’s taken in and market off useless, generic, low-quality yet overpriced merch to the gullible teen market. now, tees and a little bit of merch is ok, promotion is ok, but they’ve taken it to a different level now where they are now one of the highest earning artists in the world. and that’s solely based on the merch because everyone knows that merch pays the band more than anything else.

so what if somebody wants to be a walking green day billboard? that shouldn't mean shit to you.i don't know what your hangup with money is. it's like you imagine billie joe, mike and tre sitting in solid gold bathtubs full of $100 bills.obviously you've become too punxxxorzzz for a band who is actually popular and wants to stay popular. so maybe you should go listen to some black flag and fugazi and leave now.

billboards in the form of tshirts is great. but what about, for example, the undies part? what purpose does that serve? I’m sure GD’s goal wasn’t to clothe bare butts, but to make a lot of easy money.and I don’t mind GD being popular. but you and I would have to agree that w/o the merch, the band would still be popular as they are now.

Excuse me? Just because I think Rancid fucking sucks, doesn't mean I haven't met anyone punk. That was just, retarded.Nobody is punk anymore anyway.---Rancid has similar roots. That's it.I respect their influence, but that will never change the fact that I think they sound horrible.And, If i weren't a fan? If you're trying to say if i was a fan, than you're an absolute idiot.Just because I don't like one of their influences doesn't make me any less of a devote.

okay, honey read. a little. more. carefully.I never suggested you were a fan. but if you had the slightest clue about punk music, you’d still give a little appreciation to what Rancid contributes. if you’ve ever been part of a punk scene, you’d know that Tim Armstrong is seen as a much higher idol than Billie. way more. and that’s even if you hate Rancid, cuz I used to dislike Rancid yet I was aware of what they meant to punk rock since before GD’s time til now.

[randomness]

i may be wrong, but since you seem to mention money in almost every sentence, could it be that you are jealous that you don't have that much money? because the rest of us don't care that they have merch.

[Annie.]

what do you mean by more?

I'm sure others would understand admiring them for more than just musicianship. GD, as a punk band, seemed to set out a set of unsaid morals. they were never established, but they were heard by fans through the music and what they did. wanna be the minority? well now you're the majority. going against consumerism? well now you're a bunch of corporate whores.

[TotalBasketCase13]

It's. Just. Clothing.

[Annie.]

actually, Green Day and Rancid are equally credited with making punk explode, in my opinion, so if you're gonna get pissed at punk being all popular and commercial, blame them both... Tim has frequently shown his love of GD, and he and Billie are in a band together and are good friends..http://www.geekstinkbreath.net/greenday/ne...Armstrong-band/And anyway, I wouldn't diss Relavar, he's been here longer than you for sure...and I'm pretty sure "punks" appreciate spelling, "cuz" we here at GDC find it essential...

I'm glad you're aware that both bands are equally credited cuz that shows that you know that Rancid became just as influential w/o the help of merchandise. and who said I hated popularity and commercialism? oh, and I'm fucking well aware of them being a band together and all that cal.and in case you didn't know, we're on the fucking internet here and you fucking well understand what I mean by "cuz". am I supposed to correct your grammatical errors in return?

Look, who gives a fuck.I personally think Green day sold out.But i still like most of their records.Music is music.Get the fuck over yourselves.

I still consider myself a fan of the music-- that isn't affected by what they do. it's just my respect for them has shrunken lots.

mm i think that if you don't like Green Day music you wont buy all their stuff.so, if they are making all this for you.. who cares?No one is making you buy this things, close your eyes if you are so annoyed when you see some of their stuff.

but they fucking well know that their fans will by their stuff because they know that much of their newer fans are teenagers of developed countries. it's called marketing. no one's forcing you to buy it, but the fact that it's there means some rich idiot teen will.

Oh I just thought that was funny.--Anyway, Green Day sold out.

you being sarcastic there? cos I swear you were all for them not selling out.

Interestingly enough everyone who whines about bands selling out always loves talking about how good bands like Black Flag and The Sex Pistols and Dead Kennedys are. Which have become mainstream bands for any punk to like. So now everyone who whines about mainstream bands like the most sterotypical punk bads of the 80's. Hypocrisy much?

I agree with ya there. the Pistols suck now. but LOL, 80's?? get the era a little more correct.oh, and you forgot the Misfits.

As soon as Green Day puts out a full album with no cuss words, masturbation themes, or drug themes I'll call them sell outs.But so far, hehe.

ehrm, didn't AI have all that?

FUUUUUUUUUUCK please people thats what you do if you have that kind opertunity people who don't take them are just idiots who are scared of the fukin challenge. So maybe they did sell out but fuck it if they didn't me or you probably wouldn't have heard of them

oh, and I'm also for them signing to a major and presenting to the world their songs. they're integral to bridging fans to more underground punk, which is awesome. just wanted to clarify that.

I want to say no, they didn't because the opportunity came to have their music heard by a larger audience and by that they are being smart about their career. As the fame grew bigger and bigger, they are able to help the world such as katrina victims and Dafur victims as well. And that helps to get their message across. They're still being true to their music, true to the fans and most importantly true to them selves. They're using fame for the better.

yep, heard that all before. came out of my own mouth.they do use fame for the better.. apart from the fact they cheat their own admirers.

Why does anyone still ask if they sold out? What does selling out even mean? From what I've heard and seen, the fame, admiration, and money that came with signing to reprise has not made Green Day any worse than they were. In fact, they're better then they were. And it gave them the money so that they could send their kids to the best schools, live in the best neighborhoods. And by signing to a major label, they got more global attention, meaning they have the power to help the world, and to change it for the better.If selling out means you get paid what you deserve for bringing happiness to the world, and you get the best quality producers in the business to bring out the best of your music, then I want to sell out. The more money you have behind your album, the more places it can be distributed to, so you can spread happiness to more people everywhere. Wow, so evil.Fuck starving artists, because they tend to be self absorbed loads that think they are above everyone else and the rest of society, but deep down all they want is for everyone else to think they're enduring and cool for choosing to stay poor. Fuckwads is what they are.

why is this posted again? btw, I'm here to hear ppl's opinion on the matter, not to repress.

[FilmAdaptation]

I wouldn't call the Misfits stereotypical punk, especially in their original form. The pistols were never good, they just influenced (all arguments aside). I never found DK to be anything special, at least musically. Black Flag was better than the Sex Pistols, but again, I would say they more influenced with their music, than made that great of music.

So I'm with Anarchist(John?) on this one.

[**nobodylikesyou**]

^Interesting to Annie..

I dont think they sold out. I think they did what they had to do in a fu*ked up music industry.

[Jose Luis]

i don't know and i don't care if they did

[Annie.]

i may be wrong, but since you seem to mention money in almost every sentence, could it be that you are jealous that you don't have that much money? because the rest of us don't care that they have merch.

lemme guess, you’re a twat.

here you and others are defending GD with being “able to earn millions” and all that bull.

and I’m here saying that what they’ve earned is easy money out of their own teenage fans’ pockets.

see the difference? you care about excessive amounts of capita, you relate it directly to a band’s success—I don’t.

tbh, other bands have had more important things to say, other bands have even better quality of music than Green Day. they just didn’t hire a stylist to help them market themselves to a rich teen market.

[randomness]

lemme guess, you’re a twat.

that's a yes then. resorting to insults because i just hit the nail on the head. and i think you're the twat, can't you see no one else gives a shit?

[Annie.]

that's a yes then. resorting to insults because i just hit the nail on the head. and i think you're the twat, can't you see no one else gives a shit?

I call you twat because you were somehow inclined to think that I care about money more than those who've opposed me here. you actually think that I want all that money for myself?

if no one else gave a shit, they wouldn't bother to argue. if no one else gave a shit, no one would bother reading (which would just show stubborn ignorance) and I wouldn't have changed people's perspectives as I'm sure I have so far.

[**nobodylikesyou**]

lemme guess, you’re a twat.

here you and others are defending GD with being “able to earn millions” and all that bull.

and I’m here saying that what they’ve earned is easy money out of their own teenage fans’ pockets.

see the difference? you care about excessive amounts of capita, you relate it directly to a band’s success—I don’t.

tbh, other bands have had more important things to say, other bands have even better quality of music than Green Day. they just didn’t hire a stylist to help them market themselves to a rich teen market.

Annie, what did you want them to do when they became too big for Lookout?

and why do you have a problem with them earning that money out of teenagers pocket?

1. green day didnt create their album for the purpose of teenagers purchasing their music

2. the teenagers are gonna spend the money one someone so what difference does it make?

3. there are plenty of 20-40 yrs olds that buy green days music.

[FilmAdaptation]

tbh, other bands have had more important things to say, other bands have even better quality of music than Green Day. they just didn’t hire a stylist to help them market themselves to a rich teen market.

I can somewhat agree with this statement. Many bands have had things as important, or more (depending on your outlook) than Green Day. Some of these bands may have better music than Green Day (again, depending on your outlook). However, like you said, I do feel like Green Day did change a lot to unnecessarily capitalize on the growing teen market (like many other bands have been doing of late). Why they did it? Not sure, but I'll keep listening to their music on occasion.

Annie, what did you want them to do when they became too big for Lookout?

I don't think she was referring to anything but AI era.

[randomness]

I'm sure I have so far.

i'm sure you haven't

[Parley]

I wouldn't have changed people's perspectives as I'm sure I have so far.

As I said before in this thread, everything you've said has been discussed to death long before today and long before you were here. Please don't be so damned full of yourself.

[Annie.]

Annie, what did you want them to do when they became too big for Lookout?

and why do you have a problem with them earning that money out of teenagers pocket?

1. green day didnt create their album for the purpose of teenagers purchasing their music

2. the teenagers are gonna spend the money one someone so what difference does it make?

3. there are plenty of 20-40 yrs olds that buy green days music.

read what I've already said. I've no problem with them and signing to major labels.

1. their initial purpose was everything AI stood for: the protest, the resistance of pop culture etc. but with the massive response it received, what a chance to bring out all this merch while the fans are still fans? quick, easy moolah.

2. the money would probably go to something say, a Starbucks coffee. at least the purpose behind that is to serve ppl yummy coffee and not trick kids into buying tins just cos they have "Green Day" on them.

3. 20-40 yr olds is a big generalisation there for a small minority of fans.

[**nobodylikesyou**]

I don't think she was referring to anything but AI era.

Well in that case, i will just throw in my two cents. I think their label capitalized on the teenie market. AND that is ok with me. A record label is in business to make money. If the label sees an opportunity to do it, they do. I dont think the band has a whole lot of say in that matter. I also think Green Day was so angry and didnt enjoy their success with Dookie, that they were gonna make damn sure they didnt make that mistake again. So they rode it out, looked pretty, and did all that. I see nothing wrong with that.

read what I've already said. I've no problem with them and signing to major labels.1. their initial purpose was everything AI stood for: the protest, the resistance of pop culture etc. but with the massive response it received, what a chance to bring out all this merch while the fans are still fans? quick, easy moolah.2. the money would probably go to something say, a Starbucks coffee. at least the purpose behind that is to serve ppl yummy coffee and not trick kids into buying tins just cos they have "Green Day" on them.3. 20-40 yr olds is a big generalisation there for a small minority of fans.

I dont think Green Day made the merch or made much money on that either. I have heard Billie say that they dont see anything from that. I dont think the boys need any more money to buy starbucks. Nor do I think they sit around deciding what kind of AI onsies, lip balm, or watches, shoelaces, or post it notes they are going to release. Warner/Reprise's marketing dept decides that. I think you are wrong in saying 20-40 somethings are a small minority of their fans. Most teenies were barely born when Dookie was big.

[randomness]

read what I've already said. I've no problem with them and signing to major labels.

1. their initial purpose was everything AI stood for: the protest, the resistance of pop culture etc. but with the massive response it received, what a chance to bring out all this merch while the fans are still fans? quick, easy moolah.

2. the money would probably go to something say, a Starbucks coffee. at least the purpose behind that is to serve ppl yummy coffee and not trick kids into buying tins just cos they have "Green Day" on them.

3. 20-40 yr olds is a big generalisation there for a small minority of fans.

1. i still stand by my statement that you're jealous, as you keep mentioning easy money.

2. if whoever it is likes their Green Day thing, why does it matter???

3. she didn't generalise, she just said there are plenty of 20-40 year olds that buy Green Days music, which is true. it's not a generalisation. a generalisation would be "every 20-40 year old likes Green Day" get your terms right first.