Green Day & U2 Performance

[jaded fashion victim]

Sunday Bloody Sunday - as I read that, I had a flashback to footage of Bono, back in the day; before he would perform that song, he would always shout 'this is not a rebel song', so that it would not be seen as an anti-British anthem during the Northern Ireland troubles, which the song relates to, in the powder-keg that was Ireland after the Bloody Sunday massacre.

What struck me was the image of Billie Joe shouting 'this is not anti-American, this is anti-war' before Holiday - more parallels than might seem apparent.

I wonder if Bono saw the ghost of who he used to be walk into Abbey Road last month, unrepentant, unfettered, a man who can rain fire on politicians and still give of himself for humanitarian causes, free as an artist and as a human being.

It's so interesting that you raise that point because I've always hated that Billie shouts that before Holiday. I say fuck, don't give me a disclaimer. You wrote it, now sing it and I'll decide for myself what it means.

[**nobodylikesyou**]

It's so interesting that you raise that point because I've always hated that Billie shouts that before Holiday. I say fuck, don't give me a disclaimer. You wrote it, now sing it and I'll decide for myself what it means.

Amen!

[Fuzz]

That line happens to be one of my favorite parts in Bullet in a Bible

[justcause]

It's so interesting that you raise that point because I've always hated that Billie shouts that before Holiday. I say fuck, don't give me a disclaimer. You wrote it, now sing it and I'll decide for myself what it means.

I don't see it as a disclaimer, quite the opposite - it's just pointing up the meaning.

Remember the time it was released - Bush was going, 'either you're with us, or you're with the terrorists', it was that stark. He was taking away the platform for any dissenting voices - scaring the fuck out of a lot of Europe, remember all the shit about France? - everything was really black-and-white, and this guy's singing this powerful protest song, wall-to-wall metaphors - beautiful metaphors - and mid-section where he's screaming 'Seig Heil to the President Gasman'. Frankly, given the relative subtlety of Holiday's lyrics, he may have had well-founded fears that no-one was gonna fucking get it!

Given my passion for GD lyrics - and as my screen-name indicates, I love Holiday - I'm struck all the time by how few people actually listen with some attention to what the guy is saying - and he's touring, there's all these new fans who know fuck all about GD's history of punk individualism, there are American soldiers dying in Iraq and maybe he wants to make it crystal-clear to their families that he isn't shitting on their sacrifice - wartime isn't great for subtle messages. Normally, Billie Joe is the fucking sphinx of lyrics - he just lets people think what they will, he hides a lot and leaves it to be found by anyone interested enough to go looking.

In Bono's case, as I said, Ireland was a powder-keg - it wouldn't have taken a lot to set off more violence, and there's a big tradition of rebel songs. Bono was trying to send a message of reconciliation in that climate, that violence should not be met with more violence - stressing the devastation it caused to innocents. People were already stirred up, and in this climate came this passionate, anthemic song; it has the sounds of war in it, and it could easily have become the rallying-song for the very opposite of what he was trying to put across - people were already dying, every day - more could have died.

With Holiday and Sunday Bloody Sunday, both men could have been justified in thinking that all people would hear was the war-drums, not the meaning. Sometimes, you just have to spell it out.

[Jose Luis]

i just have to admit... i didn't like the song that much :ph34r:

[mbk]

Religion tells people what to think

^That is a load of BS. Some denominations tell people what to believe. Don't lump all believers into a bullshit category like that. Shame on you. A person of faith is free to pick and choose whatever and however they want to believe.

But isn't "faith" the very essence of religion, the requirement that one unquestioningly accept a belief in something that by definition cannot be verified (believe it "on faith")? In that respect religion certainly tells people what to think. I don't know of any denomination where believing what you want to believe includes the freedom to not believe in god. In that sense religion robs you of your freedom to think what you want to think right from the starting gate.

[jaded fashion victim]

Remember the time it was released - Bush was going, 'either you're with us, or you're with the terrorists', it was that stark. He was taking away the platform for any dissenting voices - scaring the fuck out of a lot of Europe, remember all the shit about France? - everything was really black-and-white, and this guy's singing this powerful protest song, wall-to-wall metaphors - beautiful metaphors - and mid-section where he's screaming 'Seig Heil to the President Gasman'. Frankly, given the relative subtlety of Holiday's lyrics, he may have had well-founded fears that no-one was gonna fucking get it!

Given my passion for GD lyrics, I'm struck all the time by how few people actually listen with some attention to what the guy is saying - and he's touring, there's all these new fans who know fuck all about GD's history of punk individualism, there are American soldiers dying in Iraq and maybe he wants to make it crystal-clear to their families that he isn't shitting on their sacrifice - wartime isn't great for subtle messages. Normally, Billie Joe is the fucking sphinx of lyrics - he just lets people think what they will, he hides a lot and leaves it to be found by anyone interested enough to go looking.

In Bono's case, as I said, Ireland was a powder-keg - it wouldn't have taken a lot to set off more violence, and there's a big tradition of rebel songs. Bono was trying to send a message of reconciliation in that climate, that violence should not be met with more violence - stressing the devastation it caused to innocents. People were already stirred up, and in this climate came this passionate, anthemic song; it has the sounds of war in it, and it could easily have become the rallying-song for the very opposite of what he was trying to put across - people were already dying, every day - more could have died.

With Holiday and Sunday Bloody Sunday, both men could have been justified in thinking that all people would hear was the war-drums, not the meaning. Sometimes, you just have to spell it out.

Billie's 'Seig Heil' wild eyed rant in Holiday is one of my favorite parts of the entire album. The power of the lyrics in that sequence for me is that they are as stark and as black and white as "either your with us or with the terrorists." It's a vivid mocking of US government policy; "Pulverize the Eiffel towers... kill all the fags don't agree" that punches back at them with equal force. As Billie likes to say it's patriotic and pro- American for him to question his government.

I agree with you the rest of the song's lyrics are more subtle metaphors and I think he developed fears that given the weird social climate people might misinterpret them as anti- American. I still would have preferred no disclaimer, that he just belt it out as unapologetic as he was when he wrote and recorded it but he's the one in the white hot heat of the spotlight and has to follow his gut. It's an interesting parallel with Sunday Bloody Sunday but while that song stirring up shit may have resulted in more violence, Holiday probably would have just resulted in a Green Day backlash. Of course the opposite happened because people were so ready to embrace his voice of dissent.

[justcause]

Billie's 'Seig Heil' wild eyed rant in Holiday is one of my favorite parts of the entire album. The power of the lyrics in that sequence for me is that they are as stark and as black and white as "either your with us or with the terrorists." It's a vivid mocking of US government policy; "Pulverize the Eiffel towers... kill all the fags don't agree" that punches back at them with equal force. As Billie likes to say it's patriotic and pro- American for him to question his government.

I agree with you the rest of the song's lyrics are more subtle metaphors and I think he developed fears that given the weird social climate people might misinterpret them as anti- American. I still would have preferred no disclaimer, that he just belt it out as unapologetic as he was when he wrote and recorded it but he's the one in the white hot heat of the spotlight and has to follow his gut. It's an interesting parallel with Sunday Bloody Sunday but while that song stirring up shit may have resulted in more violence, Holiday probably would have just resulted in a Green Day backlash. Of course the opposite happened because people were so ready to embrace his voice of dissent.

Again, I don't feel it was a disclaimer, more an underlining of the song's content for people who might have just gone in the opposite direction - even that fucking brilliant rant is all metaphors, which makes it hit even harder for those that get it, but if foreign policy is a closed book to you, as it certainly was to many people, what are you going to make of 'pulverize the Eiffel towers'? I'd be willing to bet that there are a lot of people who don't even know where the Eiffel Tower is!

The whole of American Idiot was a risk in one way or another - Idiot itself brought rancour ; if people had turned off from Holiday because they thought it was an attack on the army, for instance, they would never have heard any of its message at all.

[Anko]

i agree well said

[jaded fashion victim]

Again, I don't feel it was a disclaimer, more an underlining of the song's content for people who might have just gone in the opposite direction - even that fucking brilliant rant is all metaphors, which makes it hit even harder for those that get it, but if foreign policy is a closed book to you, as it certainly was to many people, what are you going to make of 'pulverize the Eiffel towers'? I'd be willing to bet that there are a lot of people who don't even know where the Eiffel Tower is!

The whole of American Idiot was a risk in one way or another - Idiot itself brought rancour ; if people had turned off from Holiday because they thought it was an attack on the army, for instance, they would never have heard any of its message at all.

True, he was making it more accessible to the masses. I guess you can't assume everyone in his audience knew of the sparring that took place between the US and France or even where the Eiffel Tower is! We both agree that the rant is fucking brilliant and so was the fact that he was able to reach millions of people with it.

[cocopot]

thanks for video link. Made my day

Don't forget the UK is on British Summer Time which is one hour ahead of GMT!

Confusing I know but 7pm ESt will be 1 am in the UK

how the fuck do you know that?? I live in England, and I don't even fucking know that!

[ssnn]

But isn't "faith" the very essence of religion, the requirement that one unquestioningly accept a belief in something that by definition cannot be verified (believe it "on faith")? In that respect religion certainly tells people what to think. I don't know of any denomination where believing what you want to believe includes the freedom to not believe in god. In that sense religion robs you of your freedom to think what you want to think right from the starting gate.

Very well said.

A few month ago I read this little allegory - A man was walking through the streets in the mittle of the night when he needs an old woman with an bowl in each of her hands.One bowl was filled with water the other with fire.

The puzzled man asked the woman what she needed the fire for.She said:"the fire I need to burn down heaven and the water I need to put out hell´s fire,because only when there is neither heaven nor hell ,is anyone truly free to act only on his/her own consiouns.

[Michelle7107]

I finally got to listen to it yesterday!

It's freaking awesome!! I love it!!

[**nobodylikesyou**]

But isn't "faith" the very essence of religion, the requirement that one unquestioningly accept a belief in something that by definition cannot be verified (believe it "on faith")? In that respect religion certainly tells people what to think. I don't know of any denomination where believing what you want to believe includes the freedom to not believe in god. In that sense religion robs you of your freedom to think what you want to think right from the starting gate.

Faith is a set of principles or beliefs. Faith is confident belief in the truth, value, or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing. Faith is a belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence. Faith is loyalty to a person or thing; allegiance:

Faith doesn't mean you must believe in God, Jesus or any form of Christianity, or any other organized religion whatsoever. One could use their faith to believe in the Sun (or the stars in Mike and Billie's case ) if that is what they want to do. That was more of where I was coming from here.

Organized religion definately is founded on a belief in a God, and has a set of guidelines that you should follow based on your denomination. In that case you must have faith in your religion and their beliefs. That is a bit different thanjust plain old Faith.

[Cassie.]

I finally heard the whole thing on the Radio yesterday. it was better than I thought it would be. Actually it was pretty fucking awesome.

[**nobodylikesyou**]

I finally heard the whole thing on the Radio yesterday. it was better than I thought it would be. Actually it was pretty fucking awesome.

Have you heard the live and the studio version? If so which do you like better? They both kick ass.

I don't believe I can choose one over the other. Leaning towards the live version though.

[Cassie.]

Have you heard the live and the studio version? If so which do you like better? They both kick ass.

I don't believe I can choose one over the other. Leaning towards the live version though.

Yeah im leaning to the live version too. But finally hearing the studio version was pretty cool.

[Samantha]

That line happens to be one of my favorite parts in Bullet in a Bible

I agree. It gives the song much more meaning. Honestly, even now when I listen to it, it gives me chills because there is so much power and meaning behind Billie Joes lyrics. Basically its just like saying, "if you don't like what we're saying then you can just go and fuck yourself"

[Peter.]

I heard the Studio version today on the radio and i can't really say i liked it after the two first listenings..but i don't really think it matters if it's good or not, as long as it raises some money to the huricane victims

[justcause]

True, he was making it more accessible to the masses. I guess you can't assume everyone in his audience knew of the sparring that took place between the US and France or even where the Eiffel Tower is! We both agree that the rant is fucking brilliant and so was the fact that he was able to reach millions of people with it.

I think he's a fucking visionary writer, and Holiday is full of the force of that vision, urgent and immediate and at the same time enigmatic and subtle.

I actually don't know how he has the restraint to sit there and let stuff go over people's heads - I mean, look at me, I'd be drawing diagrams for people and writing a zillion words just to make sure my meaning got across, he just does his sphinx thing.

To go back to Bono - his lyrics are beautiful, but they have none of the fascinating complexity of Billie Joe's multi-faceted stuff - product of a mind that goes fearlessly wherever it will. I also think he gained hugely from not completing his education in a school - because, he never completed his education, yeah?

[**nobodylikesyou**]

I also think he gained hugely from not completing his education in a school - because, he never completed his education

I don't think that played a big factor in anything he has done. He was only 3 months shy of graduation.

Not enough to really make a difference one way or the other. I think what he gained hugely from was where he came from. His fucked up family life, losing his dad, his mom never home, no supervision, being the youngest, all of this crap adds up to who he is. And who he is is where gets his great stuff from.

But who will he be in 2017? It will be interesting to see in another 10-15 yrs after he has been living the high life not wanting for anything because he has more money than he could possibly spend, mingiling with the rich and famous, if his inner self will still be able to pull out all the stuff that we can relate to so much.

Maybe that is what has happened a bit to Bono. He just is in a different place after he was successful for so long.

[**nobodylikesyou**]

In that sense religion robs you of your freedom to think what you want to think right from the starting gate.

I don't think so. It is one's choice to be religious or not.

[mbk]

I don't think so. It is one's choice to be religious or not.

Of course you can reject religion altogether, but if you accept it most certainly tells you what to think.

That's why, going back to the original argument, some of us see Bono's spiritual fervor as a weakness, because acceptng faith means giving up part of one's autonomy to think for oneself.

[justcause]

Of course you can reject religion altogether, but if you accept it most certainly tells you what to think.

That's why, going back to the original argument, some of us see Bono's spiritual fervor as a weakness, because acceptng faith means giving up part of one's autonomy to think for oneself.

I often think of his questing in 'I still haven't found what I'm looking for' - beautiful song, check out the lyric -

"I Still Haven't Found What I'm Looking For"

I have climbed highest mountain

I have run through the fields

Only to be with you

Only to be with you

I have run

I have crawled

I have scaled these city walls

These city walls

Only to be with you

But I still haven't found what I'm looking for

But I still haven't found what I'm looking for

I have kissed honey lips

Felt the healing in her fingertips

It burned like fire

This burning desire

I have spoke with the tongue of angels

I have held the hand of a devil

It was warm in the night

I was cold as a stone

But I still haven't found what I'm looking for

But I still haven't found what I'm looking for

I believe in the kingdom come

Then all the colors will bleed into one

Bleed into one

Well yes I'm still running

You broke the bonds and you

Loosed the chains

Carried the cross

Of my shame

Of my shame

You know I believed it

But I still haven't found what I'm looking for

But I still haven't found what I'm looking for

But I still haven't found what I'm looking for

But I still haven't found what I'm looking for...

And I wanna go, Bono, how are you gonna find what you're looking for, if you keep on looking in the same place - 'only to be with you' ?

[**nobodylikesyou**]

Of course you can reject religion altogether, but if you accept it most certainly tells you what to think.

That's why, going back to the original argument, some of us see Bono's spiritual fervor as a weakness, because acceptng faith means giving up part of one's autonomy to think for oneself.

If you accept religion and believe in God it doesnt mean you dont have freedom to think for yourself in any capacity whatsoever. If you choose to believe in God and follow your religions beliefs, you actually still have a brain and can still have experiences and thoughts. Bono can write meaningful lyrics because of his experiences. He doesn't have a chain that holds him back because he can not think for himself now that he believes in God. Gimme a break.