Do You Think Green Day Appreciate Sam Bayer.

[wowhoworiginalisthis]

one word.

yes

[BilAngel]

Personally I think they over-indulged him come the end. A bit of variety never hurt anyone.

Haha I agree entirely on that.

I think they appreciate him and the work he did for them, whether they got over it is another thing though.

[justcause]

Alright, so apparently I've had some pent-up rage about Sam Bayer's work that would only come through in a full-fledged critical review of every AI video, so here it is:

In regards to them saying AI is the best video they've ever done, I think I might be able to agree. Although it's not the best in concept (that would have to be GSB or Walking Contradiction), it really is unique in the camera work and its simplicity. And it was nominated for a Grammy, so it did something right, right?

So it's easy to see why the band hired him again after that video. But to me, after AI he sort of lost everything. Sure, BOBD looked nice, but it didn't mean anything. Same with Holiday. Even though I like that one slightly better because it looked like they were at least having fun, it still didn't mean anything. And that's really a shame, because the lyrics to that song are so powerful. The striking, controversial imagery is built right into the song, and while I'm not a proponent of always interpreting songs literally in video, it could have at least captured the same political ferocity. I think they really missed an opportunity with that one.

Then came WMUWSE and JOS. Here, Bayer shifts gears and goes for the "meaningful" approach, but proves he can't accomplish this task without bloating songs out with 3+ extra minutes of dialogue. These videos have been praised by some for "pushing the envelope" with their epic length, but I think they deserve the opposite. A music video is all about creating a visual message that correlates with the song somehow, whether it expands on the original meaning of the song or just compliments the sound with visual effects. It shouldn't need dialogue. If you want to make something epic with acting and speaking that totally interrupts the song, make a short film. And while you're at it, write some decent dialogue.

The unfortunate conclusion I'm reaching through all of this seems to be that Green Day has poor taste in music videos. It would comfort me to attribute this simply to apathy; maybe they don't care enough about the art of music videos to make an effort themselves to come up with interesting concepts because they feel like the whole process is just an obligation, something they have to do to keep up with the modern music market, something that's maybe fun to do for a day or two at a time but not really important to the band itself. Because we know that Green Day has never really been about music videos, but about music and playing live. And that's what they've focused on the most these past 2 years. Maybe that's why they put all their trust in Sam Bayer and let him run wild with their beloved songs. But then how, how could they let WMUWSE happen?

I totally agree with your opinion on the videos - it seems churlish to criticize AI, because it was a sensational video, but I think it was also aimed at giving the band a younger look - BJ has his debauched choirboy look, and the camera just glances off Mike and Tre, both of whom look their age - and on came the teenie end of the market, who might have been put off by something overtly political.

I think he treated GD like they were The Monkees; they seemed to like it. All he had to do was say 'conceptual' to them and show them a few storyboards, and they seemed mightily impressed - they were fish out of water. The relief on the faces of Mike and Tre on 'Boulevard' when they were reunited with drum and bass - whereas Billie has done some acting, he's more comfortable with that kind of performance - after all, he's been out there from the age of five!

Like you, I just cannot imagine the conversation where he said - 'And then we stop 'September' dead and put in five bland minutes of banal improvisational dialogue from the actors' - and GD went 'OK'? Maybe Billie just wanted the whole thing as distant from his personal experience as possible, and he just went hands-off, but it was pure pain to anyone who loves the song.

As regards BIAB, Bayer treated it like it was another video, instead of a totally different animal. I don't think he ever noticed the magic and importance of the band he was dealing with - once they were on their own turf, playing live, they needed his visual gimmickry like a comet needs fairy lights. He fucking got in the way, both in 'September' and in BIAB; I'd never question GD's judgement in terms of their own work, but judging Bayer's is something we're all entitled to do as customers for the movie as well as GD fans.

Oh, and that other conversation where he went 'Well, if we leave out 'Letterbomb', 'Novacaine', 'Knowledge'....there's room for me in there!' - jesus wept!

Billie wanted 'Rattle and Hum', the U2 movie; it's so fucking different. There's black and white footage - it's because the budget was limited, not because someone wanted to throw effects around. End of my rant!

[Liquid-Dookie]

i think they do

[Guest Quietus]

Of course they don't. Why else would they let him make five music videos and proclaim that he "really gets it"?

And I think Sam Bayer's shit for the most part, but I don't think that's what this thread was asking. Justcase, I'll just throw in a quick thing that struck me there, you said maybe GD doesn't care about music vids. I'm not sure that's true to a full extent, I mean if they didn't care, they wouldn't make them. I mean most bands have them, but is it a written rule to be successful that you need them? I think they enjoy them, but don't really put everything into them as they do their performance. But I wouldn't say they don't care, I'd say they just didn't know how to put an album that was so deep into pictures that would do the it justice. Sometimes there is not pictures that can give meanings to a word, and I think GD realized that on some level so they just let Sam do what he wanted. Their earlier videos were much easier to grasp conceptually, they were from songs that were more raw and easy to decipher.

[Pepsi and Coke]

Course they do. I think i would too if I'd worked with him for a whole album's worth of video's.

[owain]

i personally dont like his work

but they do

[ShutTheFuckUp!]

Yes, I think they do. If they didn't like the direction he was going with the early videos, I don't think they would have kept him to make the later ones, or even BIAB.

Exactly.

[nooneanymore]

yes else they wouldn't have had him do all this!

[*withoutadoubt*]

Why would they continue working with him if they didn't appreciate his work?

Personally, I appreciate his tan most of all.

[justcause]

Of course they don't. Why else would they let him make five music videos and proclaim that he "really gets it"?

And I think Sam Bayer's shit for the most part, but I don't think that's what this thread was asking. Justcase, I'll just throw in a quick thing that struck me there, you said maybe GD doesn't care about music vids. I'm not sure that's true to a full extent, I mean if they didn't care, they wouldn't make them. I mean most bands have them, but is it a written rule to be successful that you need them? I think they enjoy them, but don't really put everything into them as they do their performance. But I wouldn't say they don't care, I'd say they just didn't know how to put an album that was so deep into pictures that would do the it justice. Sometimes there is not pictures that can give meanings to a word, and I think GD realized that on some level so they just let Sam do what he wanted. Their earlier videos were much easier to grasp conceptually, they were from songs that were more raw and easy to decipher.

I think you've taken me up wrongly, somehow - I know GD care very much about every aspect of how their music is presented - look at the lengths they went to for the artwork for Insomniac, and not one of their videos is run-of-the-mill, including Bayer's - the fact that there's differences of opinion on their merit doesn't mean they don't have any at all.

Do you mind if I ask where you think I've said that they don't care? Can't find it myself; unless you're talking about my comments re: September. What I meant there was that Billie may have been glad to leave the subject matter to someone else to deal with, as long as it didn't directly relate to his own personal tragedy - when you consider that 'dealing with' the subject in September amounts to the line 'like my father's come to pass', and how hard he found that, you can imagine that any in-depth stuff would have been horrendous as a prospect for him.

Off-topic, but fuckit, it's music - think of Bono's song about his father - 'Sometimes You Can't Make It On Your Own' - he's thought about it, owned his emotions, and now he's trying to close the book on his grief.

'September' - one sentence; he can talk a little about his own pain, and he can just about bring himself to say those two words, 'my father'; that wound's still open.

[BasketCase326]

Yea. I think he's cool.

[jesus the rage guy]

Green Day said that the AI videos were the best videos, so yes, I assume they appreciate him, atleast as a director. Plus the millions of times they've mentioned Bayer was 'emotionally involved' in their work.

agree

they do

[Guest Quietus]

I think you've taken me up wrongly, somehow - I know GD care very much about every aspect of how their music is presented - look at the lengths they went to for the artwork for Insomniac, and not one of their videos is run-of-the-mill, including Bayer's - the fact that there's differences of opinion on their merit doesn't mean they don't have any at all.

Do you mind if I ask where you think I've said that they don't care? Can't find it myself; unless you're talking about my comments re: September. What I meant there was that Billie may have been glad to leave the subject matter to someone else to deal with, as long as it didn't directly relate to his own personal tragedy - when you consider that 'dealing with' the subject in September amounts to the line 'like my father's come to pass', and how hard he found that, you can imagine that any in-depth stuff would have been horrendous as a prospect for him.

Off-topic, but fuckit, it's music - think of Bono's song about his father - 'Sometimes You Can't Make It On Your Own' - he's thought about it, owned his emotions, and now he's trying to close the book on his grief.

'September' - one sentence; he can talk a little about his own pain, and he can just about bring himself to say those two words, 'my father'; that wound's still open.

Eh, now I'm not even sure where I got that idea. Maybe it was from someone else's post. >.<

[wendy]

I think they do too

[greencarrot]

I think they do according to Sam's pay check .

[*patronsaintofthedenial*]

do you think they do, i mean it seems that why from what you see of them (well it does to me) although i don't think they looked that confortable and confident on sams ideas on the makings of: but do you think they like his work, like how he did their music vids, biab and if there going to do an AI movie............maybe that too, but we don't know about that yet so you know. what do you think?

Appreciate, sorry.

I think, from the way they've kept him for all the AI vids n even bullet in a bible that they do otherwise they woul of just got a new director person, n he seems pretty fuckin wicked to me. he genuinely cares about his work and wwants to make the best videos. when u see him in the making of progs, GD appear to appreciate him n seemed to have a laugh.

\m/ rock on sam bayer! \m/