Petition To Release Cigarettes and Valentines

[WhiteTim]

17 minutes ago, Saviour said:

OP obviously missed the part about the master tapes being stolen. That definitely happened, no doubt about it. 

But yeah, a petition ain't gonna cut it, sorry. 

Besides, apart from the title track which we've already heard - and is fiiiiiiinnnne, I suppose - the rest of the album has probably found its way into subsequent works anyways in some guise or another. They love recycling old ideas, as we know. 

If the band deemed the album trash, it's probably trash. 

No way they were stolen that story is straight up BS 

 

@Insomniac186  I did sign it for you 

[Lenny]

9 hours ago, WhiteTim said:

But how much did the songs change between 2002-2003 and whenever they released the songs in question is also a big question just because some songs originated from C&V doesn’t mean that they didn’t change any of the lyrics or the music arrangements maybe the 2002/2003 studio of C&V (the song) is different than the version they performed live almost 10 years later of course we would need the songs to be released in order to know for sure only ones who can tell us are GD and Rob or whoever was producing and whoever was engineering 

now moving back to the petition part 

clearly GD doesn’t want to release C&V as an album and this whole “they need to tell us why” business is entitlement and just fucking gross fans aren’t entitled to know why bands don’t want to release something sure it would be nice to know but if they don’t want to go into further detail then folks need to accept that and move on starting petition and saying “release it or tell us why not” is something we fans aren’t entitled to (imo) 

Yeah I completely agree that they’ve most likely been reworked since the original versions. It feels like discovery work, they wanted to get back to basics and make a record that held true to what was before Nimrod and Warning and of course carry over the songwriting ability that evolved from those 2 previous records.

In doing so it led to the first parts of American Idiot which led them to something new, completely different and max Green Day. C&V could have very likely been like the trilogy where it was just basic song structures.

I know Mike mentioned in AI footage that for the album they started to put the microscope on every aspect of the arrangements.
 

The story about the tapes is folklore. They just needed to answer questions when the release date was delayed again. They also were pumping up C&V in the press and it was a highly anticipated album for them after Pop Disaster.  They just needed to kill that off.

1 hour ago, WhiteTim said:

No way they were stolen that story is straight up BS 

 

@Insomniac186  I did sign it for you 

There are no tapes right? Would it not be all digital?

Then again I heard a story where the hard drive was stolen. Nobody would have access to that room except their crew. I doubt any of them are opening up computers and ripping out hard drives.

[Saviour]

2 hours ago, WhiteTim said:

No way they were stolen that story is straight up BS 

 

@Insomniac186  I did sign it for you 

I guess sarcasm doesn't translate too well over a forum. 

1 hour ago, Lenny said:

There are no tapes right? Would it not be all digital?

Then again I heard a story where the hard drive was stolen. Nobody would have access to that room except their crew. I doubt any of them are opening up computers and ripping out hard drives.

By 2003 it most likely was all digital in a top-spec studio. 

And even though it's been discussed ad infinitum: Yeah, it's bollocks. There's absolutely no way it ever happened. I think they've admitted as much to a certain extent at some point. 

They just binned the album and came out with a throwaway comment in an interview that took on a life of its own. 

[Lenny]

1 hour ago, Saviour said:

I guess sarcasm doesn't translate too well over a forum. 

By 2003 it most likely was all digital in a top-spec studio. 

And even though it's been discussed ad infinitum: Yeah, it's bollocks. There's absolutely no way it ever happened. I think they've admitted as much to a certain extent at some point. 

They just binned the album and came out with a throwaway comment in an interview that took on a life of its own. 

Yeah or maybe in better terms the project just evolved. Too much too soon is a confirmed song and one that we have heard. The lyrical content seems to match the story of Whatsername in AI. 
 

I have a feeling there probably was some form of direct storytelling in C&V. Rage and Love lyrics of JOS somewhat matches the contrasting of Cigarettes & Valentines. One is more direct, the other seems to fall more into symbolism. It seems like the basis of the personal part of the story may have existed in C&V. Was Shoplifter also a C&V track? It mentions Jimmy.
 

I think they were going to mature in storytelling and it was part of their planned progression. Green Day first spoke about a punk rock opera in their bus on tour in 1992.

[WhiteTim]

2 hours ago, Lenny said:

There are no tapes right? Would it not be all digital?

Then again I heard a story where the hard drive was stolen. Nobody would have access to that room except their crew. I doubt any of them are opening up computers and ripping out hard drives.

I think they were recording out of two places Ocean’s Way and Studio 880 (which turned into Jingletown) 

For Ocean’s Way they had both analog and digital options I’m going to assume Studio 880 was as well 

as far as whose allowed in I’ve never been to Studio 880 but Ocean’s Way the band the production team and the bands employees (instrument techs etc) and whoever the artists allows/brings in (say wives or girlfriends or friends or family) only others allowed in would be certain level studio employees I’m going to again assume that Studio 880 operates the same as that’s usually the standard practices of studios some will differ as some studios have a limit on how many guests who aren’t working for the band are allowed in etc 

stuff can be stolen from studio’s nothing is ever 100% secured but a label like Warner isn’t going to just “drop it” just cause the group says drop it the label seeing as they own the material and had invested a lot of money would have gotten police involved and police reports are public record but I can find no traces of a report also Ocean’s Way would definitely have gotten the cops involved 

[Insomniac186]

33 minutes ago, WhiteTim said:

I think they were recording out of two places Ocean’s Way and Studio 880 (which turned into Jingletown) 

For Ocean’s Way they had both analog and digital options I’m going to assume Studio 880 was as well 

as far as whose allowed in I’ve never been to Studio 880 but Ocean’s Way the band the production team and the bands employees (instrument techs etc) and whoever the artists allows/brings in (say wives or girlfriends or friends or family) only others allowed in would be certain level studio employees I’m going to again assume that Studio 880 operates the same as that’s usually the standard practices of studios some will differ as some studios have a limit on how many guests who aren’t working for the band are allowed in etc 

stuff can be stolen from studio’s nothing is ever 100% secured but a label like Warner isn’t going to just “drop it” just cause the group says drop it the label seeing as they own the material and had invested a lot of money would have gotten police involved and police reports are public record but I can find no traces of a report also Ocean’s Way would definitely have gotten the cops involved 

Studio 880/Jingletown has a massive motorized gate with a keypad entry. If anyone stole the masters, my guess is that it may have been a contractor doing work there and knew what they were looking for. The band said that the masters were eventually recovered so if the theft story is real, the thief eventually returned them. If they were analog masters, the thief may have not had the equipment to play/transfer them, which would explain why none of the unreleased material ever surfaced in bootleg form. It's possible that they knew who took the masters and asked them to return them in exchange for not being prosecuted.

 

Unreleased Green Day material very rarely leaks In general, so they obviously keep their recordings very secure.  The C&V masters being in a place where they could be stolen would have been an oversight that almost never happens.

[Gonzalo17]

I signed, despite being convinced that C&V máster doesn't exist.

[Lenny]

20 hours ago, WhiteTim said:

I think they were recording out of two places Ocean’s Way and Studio 880 (which turned into Jingletown) 

For Ocean’s Way they had both analog and digital options I’m going to assume Studio 880 was as well 

as far as whose allowed in I’ve never been to Studio 880 but Ocean’s Way the band the production team and the bands employees (instrument techs etc) and whoever the artists allows/brings in (say wives or girlfriends or friends or family) only others allowed in would be certain level studio employees I’m going to again assume that Studio 880 operates the same as that’s usually the standard practices of studios some will differ as some studios have a limit on how many guests who aren’t working for the band are allowed in etc 

stuff can be stolen from studio’s nothing is ever 100% secured but a label like Warner isn’t going to just “drop it” just cause the group says drop it the label seeing as they own the material and had invested a lot of money would have gotten police involved and police reports are public record but I can find no traces of a report also Ocean’s Way would definitely have gotten the cops involved 

Really solid point, there would be massive legal implications to that theft. But yet again, we know most likely The Network stole it and in their jurisdiction this may not even be a crime. 

 

[The Grohl]

Having heard previously unreleased material from other artists, there's usually a good reason it stays unreleased. 

[Insomniac186]

3 hours ago, The Grohl said:

Having heard previously unreleased material from other artists, there's usually a good reason it stays unreleased. 

Well, Mr. Grohl, that's definitely true in the case of the Foo Fighters, at least for the early period of the band. The ones I've heard were definitely stinkers.

[The Grohl]

Just now, Insomniac186 said:

Well, Mr. Grohl, that's definitely true in the case of the Foo Fighters, at least for the early period of the band. The ones I've heard we definitely stinkers.

Hey! How dare you say that to The Grohl! I will drink 20 pots of coffee and go berserk on you if you besmirch the name of Foo Fighters again!