New single - The American Dream Is Killing Me - Out Now!

[communitykid]

1 hour ago, Red said:

After that era, it's widely regarded that the overall quality of album releases from the band took a huge nosedive. Every single album that has come out since then has had some kind of major con to it. You can't really say anything about that for anything that came out prior to Uno. (Revrad was the only real exception to this musically, but I think it still had a major flaw in that it's production quality and volume levels were a bit all over the place.)

There is nothing wrong with the band realizing this, taking a step back and asking themselves what worked in the past and what didn't.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the band trying new things and going in new directions.

However, FOAM was not the right way of doing that. The whole era gives of vibes of them trying to ask themselves "what's cool with the kids these days?" and then trying to do it, but completely misunderstanding what's actually cool with the kids these days and instead ruining what could have been a decent Foxboro Hot Tubs album by filling it with gimmicky sounds, cringe marketing and disgraceful album art. Their heart just wasn't in it and it shows in their tour, where they pretty much didn't play a single song from it the entire time.

21st Century Breakdown is my favourite album by them because they went in new directions, but they did it in the right way. You still get everything most people love about Green Day in that record, but it's also got their most diverse genre experimentation, high quality production and incredible art. There is an extremely well threaded balance of familiarity on that album while still offering completely new flavours of Green Day that we hadn't really heard before, and to top it all off, the album is so huge and ambitious that it not only has a song for every possible mood you could be in, but it also manages to make them all fit together in one complete package.

Saviours doesn't seem to be a concept album or anywhere near as ambitious as 21st Century Breakdown was and that's fine, but so far unlike FOAM, it does at least feel inspired and that the band are actually proud of it.
I am hoping it can achieve a similar balance of fresh and familiar, but with the same level production quality we have heard from it so far.

I think this is where I diverge from a lot of the fanbase. I personally don’t really like Revolution Radio at all because it feels like a step backward toward what made them successful before the Trilogy flopped. I appreciate its energy and it’s not necessarily horrible lyrically or anything, it’s just… I mean it came out 12 years after American Idiot. If they were putting out albums that sounded heavily inspired by Dookie in 2006, I think most people would agree that they were way off track. 
 

Again, not to shit all over Billie’s songwriting, but it feels a bit inauthentic at that point. Like they wanted to be a political band, but they didn’t quite have the chops to write lyrics with the same depth as System of a Down or the same angst as The Bronx. It’s an odd position to be in - the face of radio-friendly punk rock - but I think they’ve struggled to find a well that hasn’t been tapped dry ever since 21CB. Add to that all the super mainstream, very corporate stuff like the Amazon Music show they just played.. I mean it just doesn’t hit home for me. That’s why I really appreciate Money Money 2020 Part II and why I genuinely like FOAM for being a new sound for Green Day. I can’t say whether or not they were proud of it, but it sounded like they were having a lot of fun and I know I did listening to it. 

[Eric]

20 minutes ago, Clockwise said:

Yeah, but that's the point. Is desecrating your crowning achievement as an artist not a massive statement in itself? The whole point is playing with expectations, it's not a fuck you to their record label, but a fuck you to the fans that want to keep them in a box. 

🤘

[BUBBYBUB]

5 hours ago, devilskind92 said:

To each their own, I guess. I liked FOAM just fine, had fun with it, but this single is Green Day for me. Powerful sound, great lyrics (which imo are not empty social commentary at all, quite the contrary), and no fear of sticking to what they're good at. Those are the main reasons RevRad was so well received: it was a return to form, just like this. But this is even better, even bolder.

Guys, they're a punk rock/pop punk band. There's only so much they can do before they start sounding like something else entirely. And we don't want something else, we want Green Day. They have side projects for different sounds, we can always enjoy those on the side too.

At the end of the day, you can't please everyone. I'm just glad I'm very, very, very pleased this time around lol

Agree. And my favorite and I think the most poignant lyric is "when it's all double talk of insanity"

[Little Boy Named Booze]

31 minutes ago, Clockwise said:

Yeah, but that's the point. Is desecrating your crowning achievement as an artist not a massive statement in itself? The whole point is playing with expectations, it's not a fuck you to their record label, but a fuck you to the fans that want to keep them in a box. 

This

[dudley dawson]

Anyone else think TADIKM is significantly better than Bang Bang?

[Red]

3 hours ago, Clockwise said:

Yeah, but that's the point. Is desecrating your crowning achievement as an artist not a massive statement in itself? The whole point is playing with expectations, it's not a fuck you to their record label, but a fuck you to the fans that want to keep them in a box. 

I get the point... but it doesn't make it "good", it just makes it exactly what it is which is a painfully average product that lacks the confidence or care to have it's own identity.

I've said it before and I will say it again, FOAM is not a bad record. I honestly don't get the overwhelming amount of hate it gets, but it's also not what I buy a Green Day record for. It's easily my least favourite record of theirs but there are still qualities about it that I enjoy. My main issue with it is that it could have easily avoided it's biggest flaws and been a 7/10 record had it not been marketed, produced and released the way it was. Instead, I gave it a 5/10 which is the lowest score I have given to any Green Day album ever.

I am going to quote a comment that I saw that I think really helps me try to get the point across that I am trying to make.

8 hours ago, devilskind92 said:

To each their own, I guess. I liked FOAM just fine, had fun with it, but this single is Green Day for me. Powerful sound, great lyrics (which imo are not empty social commentary at all, quite the contrary), and no fear of sticking to what they're good at. Those are the main reasons RevRad was so well received: it was a return to form, just like this. But this is even better, even bolder.

Guys, they're a punk rock/pop punk band. There's only so much they can do before they start sounding like something else entirely. And we don't want something else, we want Green Day. They have side projects for different sounds, we can always enjoy those on the side too.

At the end of the day, you can't please everyone. I'm just glad I'm very, very, very pleased this time around lol

THIS is what I am talking about. The band could have made FOAM a Foxboro Hot Tubs side project record and ditched whatever gimmicks they were forcing into the otherwise (mostly) decent songs on the album and it would have been fine. We could have still enjoyed it and it wouldn't have hurt the band's reputation. The problem is that they released it the way we know it and we as fans were just supposed to accept that FOAM is what Green Day's standards were now. Again, there is nothing wrong with trying new things and experimenting with different sounds like they have done really well on most of their records, but when it deviates a bit too much, then it's side project time. That's why we have stuff like SD&R and The Network. We can enjoy both, but when something is put under the Green Day name, I have higher expectations and they should too. They used to be one of if not the biggest band in the world during the 90s and 00s after all.

I grew up listening to Green Day when they were not only consistently putting out quality songs, but also quality production and marketing for those songs, and it wasn't just a few songs, it was every single album. It all adds up to what makes a good quality Green Day product. I really don't want to sound entitled, but if I buy a record of theirs, I have expectations and these expectations largely haven't been met since 2009. Every album from their debut up until then set those expectations of what Green Day is and what they are capable of. Not every album needed to be or was a masterpiece, but they were all ranging from great at worst to about as flawless as I could have imagined them being... After that, well:

The trilogy was diverse and melodically what I loved about the band but it also felt extremely rushed and there were many songs on there that could have been so much better had they had more work put into them. The production was extremely bland to the point where nearly every song just sounded the same and lacked a unique feel outside of the core fundamental elements of the songs themselves. Oh and of course one of the biggest issues of all is that the guitars lacked a good iconic Green Day sound that just didn't deliver that satisfaction or attitude that they had until that point and it wasn't just on one or two of the songs, but all of them. Overall I think it was good but it also could have been great.

Revolution Radio came out it with songs that had clearly had a lot more work done on them. It was quality over quantity this time and the songs were fully realized and all fit on the album nicely while also each having their own unique feel like we were used to from the older albums but the audio wasn't great quality and a lot of the unique aspects of the songs were drowned out in the combination of average mixing and volumes that were either way too loud or way too soft. Overall I think it was great but it also could have been excellent.

Now that the band had course corrected, I once again looked forward to the natural direction and evolution I had been waiting for them to head in in since the 21CB days but then FOAM came out and could have easily been a decent little record but... well, I think I've made my opinion pretty clear on that one so I am not going to keep repeating myself. Overall I think it was average but it also could have been good.

Notice all the buts though? The only buts I can think of prior to Uno were the first two albums being fantastic but they obviously didn't have the funds back then to make them sound as good as the later records did and 21cb might be a little long for some people... but these very few "buts" aren't really bad things, are they?

Anyways, this new single is yet another course correction for me and I am really glad their overall standards for this record have been raised much closer to what I expect from them, but I am still going to remain skeptical and hold my full judgment till I've heard the entire album.

[Eric]

lol

[Red]

2 minutes ago, Eric said:

lol

Such a sophisticatedly well written and thought provoking response. Incredible and awe inspiring 👏

[DeJennsitized]

1 hour ago, dudley dawson said:

Anyone else think TADIKM is significantly better than Bang Bang?

God I love Bang Bang, the way that song was released and the hype around it, and then finally hearing it with no previous leaks, was such a moment. I don’t think TADIKM tops it for me personally (though I do love the song!) 

[Eric]

6 minutes ago, Red said:

Such a sophisticatedly well written and thought provoking response. Incredible and awe inspiring 👏

i literally do not care.

[dudley dawson]

It’s wild to me that anyone could be reminiscing on the FOAM era right after the band dropped two return to form HEATERS, but here we are.

[Eric]

It’s wild to me that you find it wild, weirdo

[dudley dawson]

18 minutes ago, Eric said:

It’s wild to me that you find it wild, weirdo

All good with me that you prefer FOAM. Different strokes for different folks and all. But I agree with @Red. I’m not looking for this band to reinvent the wheel. I expect them to do their thing and to do it well. So far, mission accomplished.

[Maddie86]

11 hours ago, dudley dawson said:

Anyone else think TADIKM is significantly better than Bang Bang?

Naw, I love the energy of bang bang and the drum solo always makes me smile. And their live performance of it with the "no trump, no kkk, no fascist USA" chant still gives me goosebumps when I watch it 

[That Dude]

I heard some of you guys talking about FOAM and....wait.  I typed "FOAM" into Spotify and now I'm listening to some weird song "Get On Board".     Okay, that works.  You guys need to get on board with Father of All...  AND the band FOAM because both are pretty rockin.       Interesting facto and kind of speaks to how much better the album did than people think:     The LEAST streamed song is Junkies on a High with a 5.2 million streams which is better than some songs off Insomniac, warning and so many more.    

Anyway.  American Dream Is Killing Me is a strong lead single, but I don't want the entire album to sound like that.  My only criticism of it is that it's not very emotional.  It's not making me laugh or cry and think a whole lot.   It just rocks. 

 

[Liam]

2 hours ago, Eric said:

It’s wild to me that you find it wild, weirdo

There's no need to get insulting. If you disagree how about you actually have a civil conversation about it.

[Red]

1 hour ago, Maddie86 said:

Naw, I love the energy of bang bang and the drum solo always makes me smile. And their live performance of it with the "no trump, no kkk, no fascist USA" chant still gives me goosebumps when I was it 

The live version of American Dream has officially made me love it (that piano section sounds incredible), but I am totally with you. I'd give TAMDIKM an 8 whereas I'd give Bang Bang a 9 (I would have given it a 10 if it had TAMDIKM's production).

They're both really damn good but I fell in love with Bang Bang on first listen. I really hope they put it back on the setlist.

[CherryBombs&Gasoline]

I totally get where some of you guys are coming from, but I honestly don’t think that the problem with FOAM is that it’s different from previous Green Day records. Sure, the deviation in sound might have contributed to the poor sales, but from a fan’s perspective, I believe that every band should be allowed to push their boundaries. Green Day tried to do that and I respect that. My problem with the record is that the songs itself just aren’t good, regardless of the new sound. If every song had the quality of Graffitia, Sugar Youth or even the title track, I’d be ok with the album. But that’s just not the case. There are some tracks on that album that are just bad. And there’s no point in being experimental just for the sake of it. So I am not criticizing the band for trying out new stuff. I’m criticizing them for the lazy songwriting and the cringy lyrics. That’s a difference.

Concerning the new song, I don’t necessarily think that it’s fair to criticize them for playing it safe. Look at other big rock bands. The new Blink record is classic Blink and people are applauding them for it. The Foo Fighters have perfected their stadium rock sound and critics love every album they put out. Yet when Green Day release a “classic“ song, they get criticized for it, just like they get criticized for trying out new stuff (by some people). Are these the deepest lyrics ever? No. But I also don’t think that they are shallow. You simply cannot put a pamphlet on the problems with American society into a three minute song. But the song does address important issues, and that’s all that I expect from a radio-friendly punk rock song. Don’t get me wrong, I was extremely critical with FOAM and the trilogy, but this time, I truly don’t believe that there’s much to criticize. I think we can still say that there are no two Green Day albums that sound completely alike, and I respect the band for that.

[HAPPY ZOMBIE UNICORN]

5 hours ago, dudley dawson said:

Anyone else think TADIKM is significantly better than Bang Bang?

I prefer the the “raw energy” of bang bang, but TADIKM is stuck in my head as bang bang never was, production wise is at another level, and overall I think it’s a better song. At the moment I would agree with you, but I would love to come back to this post in a couple of years to see if my music taste made me change my mind 😄

[Flashback]

I like FOAM as well. Maybe not Top 3 but a solid album. BUT the promotion was cringe as fuck. I mean, what was that? Beer Pong with Post Malone, cameos in some rap music videos, sudden hate for Ariana Grande and love for Billie Eilish that both vanished without a trace 😅

[HAPPY ZOMBIE UNICORN]

35 minutes ago, Flashback said:

I like FOAM as well. Maybe not Top 3 but a solid album. BUT the promotion was cringe as fuck. I mean, what was that? Beer Pong with Post Malone, cameos in some rap music videos, sudden hate for Ariana Grande and love for Billie Eilish that both vanished without a trace 😅

Agree on FOAM being better then what most says and that the promotion was a disaster. But expressing appreciation or not for an artist in an interview is hardly part of a promotional campaign strategy and can be called sudden hate only by current social media standards. And I think is something that BJ will continue to do no matter who manages him. He was just expressing his legitimate opinion.

Just to bring back the quote that became a “hate declaration” back then: “I'm stoked for her (Billie Eilish) and Finneas. It's insanely well-deserved. Their music is very real, and you can tell it all comes from them, which is what sets it apart from what other pop acts are doing." 

“It's not even comparable to think about what she does compared to someone like Ariana Grande. She's the real deal.” 

Finding hate and not a personal opinion on artistic processes, music composition, the value of writing and producing your music VS having professional songwriters and producers to create your songs, and music taste, is completely preposterous. 

By the way, I don’t know about Ariana Grande, but Billie Eilish recently released a song that has 70+ million views on YT, part of the soundtrack of one the highest grossing movies of all time, is likely to be nominated and possibly win at the Oscar, debuted in the top 40 on the Billboard Hot 100, #1 on Alternative, and might lend her another Grammy. Hardly vanished without a trace. 

[jengd]

Am I right thinking they played it a little faster live?

[GuitarPunk94]

8 hours ago, dudley dawson said:

Anyone else think TADIKM is significantly better than Bang Bang?

no

and there is simply one reason for it imo

bpm

if TADIKM would be atleast a bit faster, it would be an absolute banger

[okotavio]

8 hours ago, dudley dawson said:

Anyone else think TADIKM is significantly better than Bang Bang?

Bang Bang is a better composition overall imho, more complex and I always saw it as what a modern Green Day song should sound like. But it’s not a song I come back often. 

However TADIKM has waaaaay better production and is way more catchy. So… one is better than the other in different aspects I guess

[Christian's Inferno!]

I prefer Bang Bang to TADIKM. In fact there's a few songs from the post-21CB era that I would put above TADIKM. Despite the issues with production and lyrics, songs like Bang Bang, Let Yourself Go, Brutal Love and Stray Heart are probably songs I see myself returning to more often than TADIKM. The production doesn't really even bother me on Bang Bang. It does on other RevRad tracks but Bang Bang is easily the best song on RevRad. Don't get me wrong, TADIKM is a good track, possibly great. But it is really safe and not original for Green Day. It has elements of 21CB which I'm obviously fine with, as it's my favourite album, but well... I'd probably just prefer to listen to those 21CB tracks over TADIKM.

The thing is, LMNB is a completely different type of song from TADIKM and even OEB and 1981 (even though we haven't heard the album versions of these tracks) seem like different enough tracks too. So Saviors could easily be the type of album that switches things up. Rather than it just being more 21CB/AI type songs, it's likely that there will be a few 21CB/AI type political tracks, maybe some Nimrod in there, maybe a bit of the trilogy or RevRad or FOAMF even in there. And maybe there will be songs in there that are completely new for the band. Before we talk about how much safer this album appears to be compared to FOAMF, how about we wait until we actually have the full album? We can't judge TADIKM fairly without the context of the full album. 21CB is my favourite album but I wouldn't like people to judge it just based on KYE, a song that I actually like, but 1) isn't representative of the album as a whole and 2) works better in the context of the full album due to how different the other tracks are, how KYE's double meaning gets revealed in RHS etc.

In defense of TADIKM's lyrical content, I do not think that the lyrics here are the same kind of generic political songwriting Billie has been doing since the trilogy. This is not 99 Revolutions, Revolution Radio or Troubled Times type lyrics. It's not the generic "Revolution / We live in troubled times" lines that has plagued Green Day's political songs since 2012. Tbh I don't even dislike any of those songs but it's the type of songwriting that makes AI/21CB political tracks stand out so much more in comparison to RevRad. Bang Bang is the only "political" song on RevRad that stands out in terms of its lyricism and even then, the lyrics on that track aren't perfect. TADIKM seems similar, there's actually genuine meanings to that song that aren't just these generic buzzwords but it's still not exactly one of Billie's stand out lyrical masterpieces. The American Dream is something that was mentioned multiple times in 21CB. The title track ends with "Dream, America, dream, I can't even sleep from the lights early dawn" and Before the Lobotomy's intro/outro lyrics as well as the lyric that goes into the outro "The brutality of reality is the freedom that keeps me from dreaming" also makes similar type of commentary to TADIKM. The lyric about TikTok is actually very much AI/21CB type lyrics. For a band that spent a lot of time talking about the media in the 00's, mention of social media is to be expected. Even RevRad referred to the anti-social media.

I don't like the argument that Green Day should just throw their stuff onto side projects if they're not "Green Day" sounding enough. Stop Drop & Roll IS a green day album. It should be a Green Day album at least. I understand why they wanted to release it as a side project at the time (i.e didn't want it to be the AI follow up, it was a new sound for them) but Billie said a few years ago that he wishes he released it under Green Day and I agree. MM2020 Pt II was a different thing, that's part of an already existing side project so it makes sense to release a more new wave sounding album under The Network. And The Longshot is exclusively for stuff that Billie writes and records on his own. If Tré and Mike were involved with all that stuff, it would make perfect sense to release that under the Green Day label. I'm totally fine with Green Day alternating between what's more traditionally sounding Green Day stuff and stuff that's more like Foxboro/Longshot, FOAMF type experiments. All releasing stuff under side projects does is ensure that few people actually hear the songs. And the band want people to hear these albums. Look at The Network albums and Stop Drop & Roll. Look how few views these songs have on youtube, on spotify etc. Why would the band decide to do that with FOAMF or with any other album they want people to hear?

Idk if we can really ever expect a totally new Green Day sound. FOAMF honestly wasn't that different to me, my issues with FOAMF have nothing to do with the experimentation. It's the production, lyrical content and unnecessary sounds that come up throughout. Stop Drop & Roll is the last album that was a completely new thing for Green Day. I believe every album since then has at its core been influenced by American Idiot or Stop Drop & Roll (or MM2020 in the case of MM2020 Part II), maybe with some new elements or certain tracks that sound completely different. I'm honestly really curious what FOAMF would've sounded like if they started working with Rob for that album. Idk how much of a role Walker played in the overall sound but even if it was virtually none, I feel like Rob would've known when to stop Billie and tell him something isn't working. Say what you want about a track like Nightlife, at least the band really wanted to try and make a completely unique song. It didn't work in its entirety but I really like the bassline, I don't even hate Billie's vocals here. I think it works considering the type of song it is.

Spotify streams for TADIKM
Day 1 - 248k
Day 2 - 487k (+239k)
Day 3 - 663k (+176k)