So let's talk about "Holiday"...

[Tre's Busted Drumkit]

There are a few songs with lines that Billie Joe may or may not want back. One of them, American Eulogy, seems to have unfortunately died with the 21CB tour. As far as I know, it hasn't been played since the first show of the South American leg. Its dropping of an n-bomb seems to be confined to history more because the song wasn't exactly a hit than any other reason.

The other song that might be a problem going forward is Holiday. It's pretty easily Green Day's most venomous song. The line in question, "Kill all the f..s who don't agree," doesn't exactly hit the same way in a society where homophobia is damn near encouraged by the country's leaders, and where the response to Club Q has consisted of a lot of, "So some gays died? So what? They won't be grooming my kids anymore." Is that line now problematic enough to say something else during the breakdown, or just drop the song entirely?

As a counterpoint, My Chemical Romance continued playing Teenagers every night after Uvalde, so there's that.

Also also, can he change the line to, "Kill off the fucking GOP"?

[Flashback]

I think the line "it's not a way that's meant for me" makes clear that the previous lines of the bridge are from the perspective of people who get criticized by the song. And I personally think that the first line of the bridge could be as problematic, especially in Europe, but since there is literally no backlash I think that also in this case it is clear that this is not the opinion of the band.

[Red]

I strongly believe that song lyrics should never be changed. They are just words and only hold as much power as people are willing to give them. 

Some songs should be lost to history and probably forgotten, sure... but only ones that come from a place of hatred or actual malicious intent. No Green Day song even comes remotely close to this, in fact any of the songs with "controversial lines" that the band has written have only come from a place of positivity and desire for betterment.

In short, don't make a big deal out of words, especially those that come from a place of positive intent. If people are too ignorant to be able to tell what the lines actually mean, then it's no ones fault but their own and no band should ever have to change anything about them to cater to those people.

[cav9mm]

6 hours ago, Tre's Busted Drumkit said:

There are a few songs with lines that Billie Joe may or may not want back. One of them, American Eulogy, seems to have unfortunately died with the 21CB tour. As far as I know, it hasn't been played since the first show of the South American leg. Its dropping of an n-bomb seems to be confined to history more because the song wasn't exactly a hit than any other reason.

The other song that might be a problem going forward is Holiday. It's pretty easily Green Day's most venomous song. The line in question, "Kill all the f..s who don't agree," doesn't exactly hit the same way in a society where homophobia is damn near encouraged by the country's leaders, and where the response to Club Q has consisted of a lot of, "So some gays died? So what? They won't be grooming my kids anymore." Is that line now problematic enough to say something else during the breakdown, or just drop the song entirely?

As a counterpoint, My Chemical Romance continued playing Teenagers every night after Uvalde, so there's that.

Also also, can he change the line to, "Kill off the fucking GOP"?

Just for context , Green Day’s music is enjoyed in many countries that don't have leaders that encourage homophobia .

[pacejunkie punk]

There are people out there saying actual hateful things and meaning them and those are the ones we should be focused on and concerned about. Direct your energies to stopping that.

[Little Boy Named Booze]

Holiday need to stay on the setlist.

[Hermione]

The American Eulogy line is controversial among fans due to the belief some people have that it isn't justified for a slur to be said by a person it hasn't been used against whatever the context.

The same thing doesn't apply to Holiday. Billie Joe is openly bisexual and the f word is his to reclaim. So it's a different thing. In general it isn't considered a problem for members of an oppressed group to reclaim slurs that are used against them, including in song lyrics.

If we're talking about people totally misinterpreting the song and not understanding that the line isn't literal then that's another thing. Shouldn't be a reason to censor it since half the lyrics could be misinterpreted if they were taken literally (eg "sieg heil!"). 

[nopride84]

This song is played everytime for past twenty years I'm sure they'll take it out now. Obv you don't understand the song. Also they don't play American eulogy anymore cuz you know they don't play any breakdown songs hardly except 21 guns and know your enemy.This is the type of post that makes me miss the pre 2016 days of this board

[Redundantuserjinxboy]

bigger fish to fry

[DookieLukie]

I mean...that whole part of the song is clearly sarcastic, even noted by the announcement of who is speaking as well as the different pace and vocal filter. I think anyone who actually listens and has any comprehension skills can tell that the word isn't being used in a homophobic way. Billie is using that part of the song to portray the extremism that reacts from tragedy and the way people cut out anyone who disagrees with them. Holiday is one of his best songs, especially lyrically, and neutering it would take away from its value.

[Tre's Busted Drumkit]

1 hour ago, nopride84 said:

This song is played everytime for past twenty years I'm sure they'll take it out now. Obv you don't understand the song. Also they don't play American eulogy anymore cuz you know they don't play any breakdown songs hardly except 21 guns and know your enemy.This is the type of post that makes me miss the pre 2016 days of this board

Actually:

• I was here for the pre-2016 days of the board
• I understand the song quite well. I was alive and socially conscious in 2004.
• They do tend to ignore 21CB in live sets, and they have ever since the end of that tour. Even 21 Guns more or less fell off the setlist for a long time, and I don't think they've played the whole song since 2010.
• It's called "starting a discussion". You may note that I never voiced my own opinion, just posed the question.

[pacejunkie punk]

He uses the f word in American Idiot too to describe himself

[Little Boy Named Booze]

11 minutes ago, pacejunkie punk said:

He uses the f word in American Idiot too to describe himself

Fucking beautiful man?

[pacejunkie punk]

5 minutes ago, Little Boy Named Booze said:

Fucking beautiful man?

Damn right 🥰

[Tre's Busted Drumkit]

30 minutes ago, pacejunkie punk said:

He uses the f word in American Idiot too to describe himself

It hits differently there, though. "Maybe I'm the f..", is very different from, "Kill all the f.."

[That Dude]

I recently asked a black friend how they felt about white artists saying racist terms in songs that are meant to be anti-racist and she said, no.  It should never be done, no matter the context.  

Now I wonder if this extends to film makers, novelists, etc.   I know Stephen King always has a horribly racist monster in his stories and filmmakers do as well. Should they not have those things?

Very interesting.  Holiday and American Eulogy are two of the best songs ever, so it would be tough for me to let them go or alter them.

If the songs in question were flippant, like say Bouncing off the Singular Wall, we'd be having a different situation.

 

 

[The Grohl]

On 11/24/2022 at 12:16 PM, That Dude said:

I recently asked a black friend how they felt about white artists saying racist terms in songs that are meant to be anti-racist and she said, no.  It should never be done, no matter the context.  

Now I wonder if this extends to film makers, novelists, etc.   I know Stephen King always has a horribly racist monster in his stories and filmmakers do as well. Should they not have those things?

Very interesting.  Holiday and American Eulogy are two of the best songs ever, so it would be tough for me to let them go or alter them.

If the songs in question were flippant, like say Bouncing off the Singular Wall, we'd be having a different situation.

 

 

I feel the same. I understand why the term was used and there was no malicious intent but it makes me feel uncomfortable every time I hear it especially as a POC. I'd rather he  not say it even though I understand the context.