The Network is back!

[Lenny]

On 9/12/2023 at 10:20 PM, Gwen Stacy said:

Probably the smartest thing Green Day has done since 2016 is not do American Idiot 2: This Time It’s About Trump. So The Network was kinda the perfect venue to get some of those songs out.

Probably explains why Art of the Deal With The Devil was pulled off of foam.

[pacejunkie punk]

1 hour ago, Sheenius said:

Probably explains why Art of the Deal With The Devil was pulled off of foam.

Exactly, despite the fact that it’s one of the better songs from that session

[fatherotti]

Hypothetically speaking. And I've always pondered this. If Money Money 2020 was originally Cigarettes and Valentines, just remixed for the Network,

I wonder why the music was repurposed into such a concept..... 🤔

Maybe Warner Reprise told them "Well we contracted you for an album release this year anyway. You're not happy with the music you made as a band. But you have to release something though because we already paid you to make Cigarettes and Valentines. Why don't you take the tracks you recorded and just remix them as a side project concept? And start work on another one, the real new album, for next year in 2004?".   

Or perhaps the band themselves told Warner "Look we don't like what we recorded cause we don't feel like its 100 percent Green Day. We can release it but its gonna be something totally different."

 

[That Dude]

I wish we'd change the name of this thread, because everytime I see it surface with a new post, I'm like AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH PART THREE AAAAAH FORGET GREEN DAY AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH.

 

[Lenny]

On 9/15/2023 at 7:59 PM, fatherotti said:

Hypothetically speaking. And I've always pondered this. If Money Money 2020 was originally Cigarettes and Valentines, just remixed for the Network,

I wonder why the music was repurposed into such a concept..... 🤔

Maybe Warner Reprise told them "Well we contracted you for an album release this year anyway. You're not happy with the music you made as a band. But you have to release something though because we already paid you to make Cigarettes and Valentines. Why don't you take the tracks you recorded and just remix them as a side project concept? And start work on another one, the real new album, for next year in 2004?".   

Or perhaps the band themselves told Warner "Look we don't like what we recorded cause we don't feel like its 100 percent Green Day. We can release it but its gonna be something totally different."

 

I dont think so. There were some rumours it was actually made prior to C&V. However there are some themes in the lyrics that seem consistent with that era of GD. Broadway mentions lushotology and this song was written for C&V.

I think there may be a song here and there that was reworked and a few lines possibly but most of what was posted on reddit as AI b-sides are what would be C&V. Letterbomb would have been on it. Wake me up may have been. I believe wake me up was mostly finalized in 2002 from rumours I heard.

[PleasedToMeetMe]

40 minutes ago, Sheenius said:

I dont think so. There were some rumours it was actually made prior to C&V. However there are some themes in the lyrics that seem consistent with that era of GD. Broadway mentions lushotology and this song was written for C&V.

I think there may be a song here and there that was reworked and a few lines possibly but most of what was posted on reddit as AI b-sides are what would be C&V. Letterbomb would have been on it. Wake me up may have been. I believe wake me up was mostly finalized in 2002 from rumours I heard.

Wasn’t it originally called September Song before it’s inclusion on Idiot?

On 9/15/2023 at 6:59 PM, fatherotti said:

Hypothetically speaking. And I've always pondered this. If Money Money 2020 was originally Cigarettes and Valentines, just remixed for the Network,

I wonder why the music was repurposed into such a concept..... 🤔

Maybe Warner Reprise told them "Well we contracted you for an album release this year anyway. You're not happy with the music you made as a band. But you have to release something though because we already paid you to make Cigarettes and Valentines. Why don't you take the tracks you recorded and just remix them as a side project concept? And start work on another one, the real new album, for next year in 2004?".   

Or perhaps the band themselves told Warner "Look we don't like what we recorded cause we don't feel like its 100 percent Green Day. We can release it but its gonna be something totally different."

 

I had always thought of MM2020 as a palette cleanser between C&V and AI, “how do we get out of our comfort zone? Let’s make a weird 80s new wave album under a fake name”

[fatherotti]

Yeah if not all the album, then some of tracks for sure. Some don't sound like they were recorded during the Network sessions. Which could mean they recorded a new album, and then just tossed in some Ciggies tracks when finalizing the album. Some just don't fit. Such as Roshambo, and Teenagers from Mars. I always heard that Roshambo was originally the final track off Ciggies. It was the track titled "End of the World". This track was on the list of AI Bsides, that John Roecker posted. Which makes a whole lot of sense given the nature of the lyrics. Without all the weird sound effects added, it could be a closing track for sure. 

[Reverend Strychnine Twitch]

6 hours ago, fatherotti said:

Yeah if not all the album, then some of tracks for sure. Some don't sound like they were recorded during the Network sessions. Which could mean they recorded a new album, and then just tossed in some Ciggies tracks when finalizing the album. Some just don't fit. Such as Roshambo, and Teenagers from Mars. I always heard that Roshambo was originally the final track off Ciggies. It was the track titled "End of the World". This track was on the list of AI Bsides, that John Roecker posted. Which makes a whole lot of sense given the nature of the lyrics. Without all the weird sound effects added, it could be a closing track for sure. 

I had always thought 'End Of The World' was related to some parts of or a very early version of 'Forever Now'. 

[Lenny]

On 9/18/2023 at 8:07 PM, fatherotti said:

Yeah if not all the album, then some of tracks for sure. Some don't sound like they were recorded during the Network sessions. Which could mean they recorded a new album, and then just tossed in some Ciggies tracks when finalizing the album. Some just don't fit. Such as Roshambo, and Teenagers from Mars. I always heard that Roshambo was originally the final track off Ciggies. It was the track titled "End of the World". This track was on the list of AI Bsides, that John Roecker posted. Which makes a whole lot of sense given the nature of the lyrics. Without all the weird sound effects added, it could be a closing track for sure. 

Just curious where you heard that about Roshambo? Roshambo lyrically lines up so I believe it.

Supermodel Robots I also believe was C&V because it lines up with the sound of other songs. It’s actually the most non Network song on the album and more FBHT. The FBHT sound was really first utilized by the band during C&V.

The other is Spike. Every seems to line up the song called Dropout with Brutal Love. Brutal Love really fits GD in late 2000s post AI  not so much early 2000s pre AI. I speculate that Spike could have easily been titled dropout. We obviously don’t know for sure but I would say it’s more likely than Brutal Love

 

[Hammie Stein]

On 9/19/2023 at 10:07 AM, fatherotti said:

Yeah if not all the album, then some of tracks for sure. Some don't sound like they were recorded during the Network sessions. Which could mean they recorded a new album, and then just tossed in some Ciggies tracks when finalizing the album. Some just don't fit. Such as Roshambo, and Teenagers from Mars. I always heard that Roshambo was originally the final track off Ciggies. It was the track titled "End of the World". This track was on the list of AI Bsides, that John Roecker posted. Which makes a whole lot of sense given the nature of the lyrics. Without all the weird sound effects added, it could be a closing track for sure. 

It is entirely possible, the Roshambo track length of 2:49 matches End of the World. I assume they probably took the track and made some alternation to make it more "Network like", but kept the overall structure and length. They could have easily taken the ProTools session and just dubbed new parts in to make it fit, hence the identical track length even if the songs elements were originally different.

[Lenny]

On 9/22/2023 at 9:15 PM, Hammie Stein said:

It is entirely possible, the Roshambo track length of 2:49 matches End of the World. I assume they probably took the track and made some alternation to make it more "Network like", but kept the overall structure and length. They could have easily taken the ProTools session and just dubbed new parts in to make it fit, hence the identical track length even if the songs elements were originally different.

Wow good catch there

[fatherotti]

On 9/22/2023 at 12:10 PM, Sheenius said:

Just curious where you heard that about Roshambo? Roshambo lyrically lines up so I believe it.

Supermodel Robots I also believe was C&V because it lines up with the sound of other songs. It’s actually the most non Network song on the album and more FBHT. The FBHT sound was really first utilized by the band during C&V.

The other is Spike. Every seems to line up the song called Dropout with Brutal Love. Brutal Love really fits GD in late 2000s post AI  not so much early 2000s pre AI. I speculate that Spike could have easily been titled dropout. We obviously don’t know for sure but I would say it’s more likely than Brutal Love

 

For sure! Definitely believe Brutal Love was originally Dropout. Lyrics match up. Regarding Roshambo, it was actually on a Youtube comment. There was someone that said it sounded like a Green Day song, and someone else replied that it was supposed to be the final track off Cigs and Valentines but it was originally titled End of the World. And when this person was asked how they knew that, they replied that they're a well known leaker with plenty of insider knowledge. Also Letterbomb once being known as Clusterbomb. Originally recorded during Warning then once again for Cigs and Valentines. Weird thing is, they're two different songs I imagine. Because Clusterbomb also appeared on the B sides CD, that John had. Which was made for American Idiot. They had both Clusterbomb and Letterbomb. Also who can forget that early AI set/tracklist where Clusterbomb was in Letterbomb's place. 

On 9/22/2023 at 6:15 PM, Hammie Stein said:

It is entirely possible, the Roshambo track length of 2:49 matches End of the World. I assume they probably took the track and made some alternation to make it more "Network like", but kept the overall structure and length. They could have easily taken the ProTools session and just dubbed new parts in to make it fit, hence the identical track length even if the songs elements were originally different.

Also I noticed the solo sounds kind of Whatsername-ish. Underneath all those funky Network effects and zombie noises. Maybe Roshambo was the first Whatsername pre AI? 🤔 lol 

[Lenny]

3 minutes ago, fatherotti said:

For sure! Definitely believe Brutal Love was originally Dropout. Lyrics match up. Regarding Roshambo, it was actually on a Youtube comment. There was someone that said it sounded like a Green Day song, and someone else replied that it was supposed to be the final track off Cigs and Valentines but it was originally titled End of the World. And when this person was asked how they knew that, they replied that they're a well known leaker with plenty of insider knowledge. Also Letterbomb once being known as Clusterbomb. Originally recorded during Warning then once again for Cigs and Valentines. Weird thing is, they're two different songs I imagine. Because Clusterbomb also appeared on the B sides CD, that John had. Which was made for American Idiot. They had both Clusterbomb and Letterbomb. Also who can forget that early AI set/tracklist where Clusterbomb was in Letterbomb's place. 

Hmm I dont see clusterbomb in John’s picture of the “bsides”. I assume this is cause it was submitted to the label on AI. Although Clusterbomb was on a list in the Arrested Development promo which was intended to promote C&V.

Looks like dropout was a 4 minute song, how long is Brutal Love? 

[fatherotti]

Oh you're right! Hmm. But Brutal Love is 4:54 and Dropout is 4:41. So maybe? Just striking to me how some of them also ended up on Stop Drop and Roll. Also looks like Walk Away was a bit shorter then too, before it was re-recorded for Tre. With the Tre version clocking in at 3:45 and this version at 3:27. 

 

[Lenny]

8 hours ago, fatherotti said:

Oh you're right! Hmm. But Brutal Love is 4:54 and Dropout is 4:41. So maybe? Just striking to me how some of them also ended up on Stop Drop and Roll. Also looks like Walk Away was a bit shorter then too, before it was re-recorded for Tre. With the Tre version clocking in at 3:45 and this version at 3:27. 

 

Its not much of a surprise about the stop drop and roll thing. This was the first era where Green Day chose to explore that FBHT sound.  C&V from what I can see almost feels like a 2002-2004 version of Uno-Dos double album (minus the lady cobra and nightlife stuff). 
 

I think that was part of the reason it got dropped. It wasn’t going to be seen as a cohesive record it was going to be taken as Green Day had two directions and a fork in the road and they walked right into the obstacle in the middle to make everyone happy.

May also explain the leniency we seem to perceive out of the trilogy era. Rob wasn’t really there as an advisor on a massive string of albums. He was almost there as someone to enable them to chase after sounds they may have ignored in favour of rock operas. 

Ive always explained this trilogy era as Green Day letting loose and making a statement of ending the 2000s era. Aside from Tre and the less focused moments on Dos it’s a really great range of songs. Uno is actually a solid Green Day album and they could have made due with that album solely. And as I said if you mixed that with fbht sound you basically almost have C&V or atleast the concept of it.

[Rumpelstiltskin2000]

So this album is three years old today!! Time flies

[That Dude]

Green Day were writing and recording a TON of stuff from 2001 to 2009.     Cigarettes and Valentines, a dirty polka Christmas album, the earlier version of American Idiot before it became a Rock Opera...this is also when they met Fink probably began planning all the jokes about The Network and Green Day being the same people.  

So many entire albums left on the cutting room floor, but it was worth it.   Imagine if we got Cigarettes, A Polka Christmas album and The Network allowed Green Day to release Money Money as Green Day.  I would have loved it all, but you guys wouldn't have.   I guess my point is all these are different albums.   We could have gotten in all in addition to Idiot, but that would have been an overload.    Idiot, Cigarettes, Polka, Stop Drop, Money Money and probably an entire besides collection from all those.   Wild.

Can we please change the name of this thread though?  Had me freaking out this morning.   I called the Fink-Fone and he's still in his underground bunker in Loch Ness.    Sounded like he was welding a Trans am to a tarantula or something. 

I know a lot of famous people now.   I am elite.