Christian's Inferno! Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 51 minutes ago, Joe. said: Not true, but I feel like the point has been missed. Candidates like Sanders have proven that bringing new policies to the national stage puts them in the minds of voters. I haven’t looked at as many articles on American politics as those in the UK, but if this convo carries on I can try and find the stats to show how since Sanders first ran for the nomination voter interest in free healthcare etc has increased, even among the moderate portions of the electorate. You have to provide a platform and believe it or not America will still be standing in 4 years time regardless of the election result, you have to build momentum and at some point decide not to vote for a right wing candidate when you’re not a right wing person Please see above. It’s not even about a candidate winning, if support swings to any candidate, other parties will adjust their policies in an attempt to win voters back. I agree America needs constitutional reform, again that won’t happen by voting Dem OR Republican Idk why you're bringing Bernie up. He ran as a democrat (despite being an independent) because he knows running 3rd party is pointless. And he endorsed Biden because he knows 3rd party can't win. Sanders was only able to bring new policies to the national stage BECAUSE he ran as a democrat. Nobody pays attention to 3rd party candidates. Them bringing up policies does nothing because the vast majority of the country will not listen to them. If Sanders ran 3rd party, he wouldn't have had a chance of winning anyways and all he would've done is taken votes away from Biden, which ultimately would only help Trump It sucks that 3rd party can't win and that nobody listens to them. But that's just how it is. Voting Biden and advocating for changing the system so 3rd party can be competitive in the future is the best thing you can do right now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe. Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 1 minute ago, BillieMyLove said: I think you are actually making a statement here saying that having Sanders and others in the mix improved Biden's position. So therefore, now that we are down to Biden, that's probably who we should vote for. If people wanted a candidate other than Biden, maybe they should have been more active in the primary process. But now he is who we have got, and as you noted, the process he had to go through did shift his position and his party's position more favorably, and that's a good thing. Voting for Bernie in the general election does nothing since Bernie is no longer running, but voting for Biden may help get some of Bernie's positions into the government. No, because Biden hasn't adopted any of Bernie's policies, unless I missed him advocating universal healthcare? I've not advocated writing in a candidate that is no longer running, apologies if that's how I've come across. Again, point missed. Voting for Biden is obviously going to be interpreted as an endorsement of Biden's policies. Just now, Christian's Inferno! said: Idk why you're bringing Bernie up. He ran as a democrat (despite being an independent) because he knows running 3rd party is pointless. And he endorsed Biden because he knows 3rd party can't win. Sanders was only able to bring new policies to the national stage BECAUSE he ran as a democrat. Nobody pays attention to 3rd party candidates. Them bringing up policies does nothing because the vast majority of the country will not listen to them. If Sanders ran 3rd party, he wouldn't have had a chance of winning anyways and all he would've done is taken votes away from Biden, which ultimately would only help Trump It sucks that 3rd party can't win and that nobody listens to them. But that's just how it is. Voting Biden and advocating for changing the system so 3rd party can be competitive in the future is the best thing you can do right now He ran as a democrat as he rightly understood a lot of people are party loyal rather than policy loyal. He understood the system. You're right, if he hadn't ran as a democrat those policies wouldn't have been discussed in their primary race, that is stating the blindingly obvious. The point I have repeatedly made and has been repeatedly missed is that if you actually take votes away from politicians in elections they are forced to respond. Personally I wouldn't be against the Dems being crushed due to a huge swing to the Greens, it would force the Dems to adopt Green policies, although I understand that opinion is controversial. Voting for Biden leaves you with you no foot to stand on in terms of future reform. You cannot vote for conservation whilst advocating change, they are fundamentally contradictory ideas. If you don't actively change the attitude around opening your eyes, you cannot then complain that everyone still votes blind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 20 minutes ago, Joe. said: No, because Biden hasn't adopted any of Bernie's policies, unless I missed him advocating universal healthcare? I've not advocated writing in a candidate that is no longer running, apologies if that's how I've come across. Again, point missed. Voting for Biden is obviously going to be interpreted as an endorsement of Biden's policies. He ran as a democrat as he rightly understood a lot of people are party loyal rather than policy loyal. He understood the system. You're right, if he hadn't ran as a democrat those policies wouldn't have been discussed in their primary race, that is stating the blindingly obvious. The point I have repeatedly made and has been repeatedly missed is that if you actually take votes away from politicians in elections they are forced to respond. Personally I wouldn't be against the Dems being crushed due to a huge swing to the Greens, it would force the Dems to adopt Green policies, although I understand that opinion is controversial. Voting for Biden leaves you with you no foot to stand on in terms of future reform. You cannot vote for conservation whilst advocating change, they are fundamentally contradictory ideas. If you don't actively change the attitude around opening your eyes, you cannot then complain that everyone still votes blind. Biden is advocating for a public health system that anyone can opt into, though not as expansive as Bernie's plan that would totally overall the health system, eliminate private insurance, etc. We definitely need an overhaul, but this is a start--in contrast to Trump, who is trying to actively take away what little public health insurance was created under Obama. So the question becomes, do we move forward slowly, or do we go backwards and try to make up all that ground? I would take slow progress over no progress. And yes, Bernie did force Biden to get more serious about health care because as you said, he made it a big issue in voter's minds (though I would argue the issue was already in their minds because we all live with this dysfunctional health system every day; he just got media attention on it), and he also made it a main focus of the Democratic party, so getting a Democrat in general into office is going to advance this issue. Also, I don't have confirmation yet, but did you here about Bernie being interested in being Biden's labor secretary? Putting in Biden means putting a lot more progressive people into power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteTim Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 At this stage in the game with less than 10 days before the election it’s too late for 3rd party option I have a much better chance at winning a Miss Teen USA competition than a 3rd party does at winning as president... All other parties should start to campaigning now for 2024 to raise the money it needs and be seen and heard... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cunt Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 I think the closest we will ever get to a third party was in 2016. I don’t think we will ever see that support for a third party candidate again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacejunkie punk Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 Does this still need to be a topic in the Green Day forum? Maybe it should be moved the general politics chat at this point. I think we’ve exhausted whatever Green Day content there once was on this topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jengd Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 Unless we keep it open for @Little Boy Named Booze to keep writing for us to soothe our fevered minds... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermione Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 33 minutes ago, pacejunkie punk said: Does this still need to be a topic in the Green Day forum? Maybe it should be moved the general politics chat at this point. I think we’ve exhausted whatever Green Day content there once was on this topic. You're right. This debate should continue here, if it's not finished: As for this thread if anyone has anything to add to the topic they can, otherwise it can be allowed to die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Boy Named Booze Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 29 minutes ago, jengd said: Unless we keep it open for @Little Boy Named Booze to keep writing for us to soothe our fevered minds... @jengd @BillieMyLove You do know it's from Friends, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jengd Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 1 minute ago, Little Boy Named Booze said: @jengd @BillieMyLove You do know it's from Friends, right? No, didn’t do Friends. Yeuch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 5 minutes ago, Little Boy Named Booze said: @jengd @BillieMyLove You do know it's from Friends, right? No, I didn't know it was from Friends LOL. It's been way too long since I watched Friends. Thank you for sharing it with us though. We will happily listen to any other plagiarized stories you have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteTim Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 7 minutes ago, Little Boy Named Booze said: @jengd @BillieMyLove You do know it's from Friends, right? Is that the story Joey teaches Phoebe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Boy Named Booze Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 Just now, WhiteTim said: Is that the story Joey teaches Phoebe? Joey teached it to a Rachel friend who used it on Ross. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteTim Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 6 minutes ago, Little Boy Named Booze said: Joey teached it to a Rachel friend who used it on Ross. that’s right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 22 hours ago, Joe. said: I’m aware my opinion is unpopular, if it wasn’t there would be different presidential nominees. Again, based on actual policy they are barely apart, not enough to make the dems the moral choice. It is what it is, if you’re never willing to stick your neck out you will never achieve change. Anyway, I’m derailing the thread so will leave it there. Last thing I will add before the thread dies, or, as is my hope, converts into an erotic story thread LOL. These allegations against Biden are reprehensible and false, as is demonstrated in this article, which seems to have been written after some pretty extensive research: https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/aug/12/facebook-posts/fact-checking-pedophilia-attacks-against-joe-biden/ These images and videos have been taken way out of context and edited to look like something they are not. Interviews with the people involved seem to show that these are all instances of him comforting children whom he had personal ties to (i.e. comforting his grandson at his son's funeral, comforting a colleagues daughter who was nervous at a public function, etc.). One can argue over whether Biden is too affectionate with people or whether his actions look awkward/could be taken the wrong way by some, but that is a far cry from being a child sexual predator. Again, none of this has anything to do with anyone's opinion of Biden as a politician or leader, but it is not OK to falsely accuse someone of a heinous crime just because you don't like them. Further, these false allegations are being spread by the QAnon group, the same good folks who want you to believe that all progressive/left-leaning folks worship Satan and drink the blood of infants. If you are honestly concerned about the sexual abuse/exploitation/trafficking of children, your efforts are much better served elsewhere. Also, I would take a look into Donald Trump's deeply disturbing comments about his own daughters, as well as his open bragging about barging into dressing rooms and observing naked underage girls at the Miss Teen USA pageant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe. Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 17 minutes ago, BillieMyLove said: Last thing I will add before the thread dies, or, as is my hope, converts into an erotic story thread LOL. These allegations against Biden are reprehensible and false, as is demonstrated in this article, which seems to have been written after some pretty extensive research: https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/aug/12/facebook-posts/fact-checking-pedophilia-attacks-against-joe-biden/ These images and videos have been taken way out of context and edited to look like something they are not. Interviews with the people involved seem to show that these are all instances of him comforting children whom he had personal ties to (i.e. comforting his grandson at his son's funeral, comforting a colleagues daughter who was nervous at a public function, etc.). One can argue over whether Biden is too affectionate with people or whether his actions look awkward/could be taken the wrong way by some, but that is a far cry from being a child sexual predator. Again, none of this has anything to do with anyone's opinion of Biden as a politician or leader, but it is not OK to falsely accuse someone of a heinous crime just because you don't like them. Further, these false allegations are being spread by the QAnon group, the same good folks who want you to believe that all progressive/left-leaning folks worship Satan and drink the blood of infants. If you are honestly concerned about the sexual abuse/exploitation/trafficking of children, your efforts are much better served elsewhere. Also, I would take a look into Donald Trump's deeply disturbing comments about his own daughters, as well as his open bragging about barging into dressing rooms and observing naked underage girls at the Miss Teen USA pageant. That may be, and I'm certainly not a Trump supporter and I'm not intentionally spreading fake information. What I do see is his hand on the chest of young girls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alienlifeform Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 Green Day is right, because The Punks are All Right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killjoywhatsername Posted October 24, 2020 Share Posted October 24, 2020 9 hours ago, BillieMyLove said: Last thing I will add before the thread dies, or, as is my hope, converts into an erotic story thread LOL. I dipped into this thread right now and was bombarded with two more pages of just general politics chat. Not sure why it hasn’t been moved. If it doesn’t happen my vote is for making it a erotic story thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 24, 2020 Share Posted October 24, 2020 1 minute ago, killjoywhatsername said: I dipped into this thread right now and was bombarded with two more pages of just general politics chat. Not sure why it hasn’t been moved. If it doesn’t happen my vote is for making it a erotic story thread. Yeah, this damn things went off the rails with politics, so @Hermione told us to let this one die and move the politics talk to the election thread, and I think people basically are taking the advice. I remain hopeful that this will be an erotic story thread now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenny Posted October 24, 2020 Share Posted October 24, 2020 3 hours ago, killjoywhatsername said: I dipped into this thread right now and was bombarded with two more pages of just general politics chat. Not sure why it hasn’t been moved. If it doesn’t happen my vote is for making it a erotic story thread. We need to round the turn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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