Daddy. Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe. Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 1 hour ago, Daddy. said: Yeah because tbf saying Morrissey’s just a moron for saying Halal is evil is going to bring about genocide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Too domb to die Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 2 hours ago, Daddy. said: this is overly simplified leftist propaganda and is far more divisive than helpful. It only really preaches to the converted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermione Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 The vast majority of white people (quite a few non white people too) would be included in at least a few of the things in that pyramid at some point (eg avoiding confrontation, believing in hearing both sides of a story, being Eurocentric about things, not being interested in politics, believing in any kind of immigration laws/limits, certain forms of cultural appropriation, certain racist jokes) including virtually 100% of people Morrissey's age. I'm pretty sure the point of it isn't to say anyone who's ever done any of these things should be labelled a white supremacist and shunned (let alone that anyone who doesn't shun them should be called out) so not sure what point is being made by posting it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeJennsitized Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 It’s saying genocide doesn’t just happen, it’s a ladder that is allowed to ascend if everyone is complacent and casual racism is ignored. The replies to this tweet explain further. https://twitter.com/maximumplum/status/1106455893439217664?s=21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Too domb to die Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 I understand the purpose of it. I don't agree with it, especially after what happened in Christchurch. I feel the far left use things like this as a cudgel to beat centrists with and facilitate just what far right extremists want therefore exacerbating an already fractured society in the ongoing ' culture war'. I'd go as far as saying it's as dangerous as any far right propaganda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermione Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 20 minutes ago, DeJennsitized said: It’s saying genocide doesn’t just happen, it’s a ladder that is allowed to ascend if everyone is complacent and casual racism is ignored. The replies to this tweet explain further. https://twitter.com/maximumplum/status/1106455893439217664?s=21 Nobody has argued that casual racism should be ignored. Some people think Morrissey has said things that mean other musicians should be criticised for working with him and some don't that's all. It's black and white that if someone says something problematic it should be addressed, but isn't black and white that they should be "cancelled" or that anyone who works with anyone who's ever said something problematic should be criticised - it's matter of opinion based on the individual case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe. Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 If you’re seriously suggesting that this A TINY COLLABORATION BETWEEN TWO AGING ARTISTS can be linked to genocide then you’re talking utter shit. This sums up how overblown this debate has become. What a ridiculous thing to even bring up. 30 minutes ago, DeJennsitized said: It’s saying genocide doesn’t just happen, it’s a ladder that is allowed to ascend if everyone is complacent and casual racism is ignored. The replies to this tweet explain further. https://twitter.com/maximumplum/status/1106455893439217664?s=21 It oversimplifies these situations massively and in any case if irrelevant when we're talking about a small music collaboration. Especially when Morrissey hasn't been racist. Everything he's said has clearly been related to animal rights rather than just hating groups because of their race. Its a stupid thing to bring up, and if others are considering it relevant then I've got nothing else to say, because it clearly isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerjeezus Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 Casual islamophobia for sure doesn't give rise to violence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeJennsitized Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 Lol I’m not saying Morrissey is going to commit mass murder, I’m just saying the mindset seems harmless but is part of a wider picture. Each step doesn’t seem like a leap from the one before it, but it’s a system that’s ingrained in society. If I had to choose between pretending I’m okay with this collaboration, or calling it out and having everyone call it bullshit and leap in to defend right wing views, I’ll take the latter. Anyway back to pretending this thread doesn’t exist lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe. Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 1 minute ago, Beerjeezus said: Casual islamophobia for sure doesn't give rise to violence. But saying Halal is evil from an animal rights perspective isn't islamophobic in my opinion. Just now, DeJennsitized said: Lol I’m not saying Morrissey is going to commit mass murder, I’m just saying the mindset seems harmless but is part of a wider picture. Each step doesn’t seem like a leap from the one before it, but it’s a system that’s ingrained in society. If I had to choose between pretending I’m okay with this collaboration, or calling it out and having everyone call it bullshit and leap in to defend right wing views, I’ll take the latter. Anyway back to pretending this thread doesn’t exist lol But Morrissey isn't part of this mindset. Thats my point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermione Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 1 hour ago, Joe. said: But saying Halal is evil from an animal rights perspective isn't islamophobic in my opinion. Yeah particularly when it comes from someone who believes all inhumane treatment of animals is evil. There are instances where you get people up in arms about halal slaughter who don't care about the cruelty of factory farms or other types of inhumane slaughter whose issue is that Muslims are being catered to in this country. But from an animals rights perspective it's perfectly legitimate to criticise inhumane practices when they're being defended, there's nothing wrong with believing culture or religion shouldn't excuse animal cruelty. His snobby comments about Sadiq Khan's accent had nothing to do with his religion or ethnic background either, he has an English accent. Unless I've missed something I don't think he's made any comments against Muslims 🤷♀️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe. Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 5 minutes ago, Hermione said: Yeah particularly when it comes from someone who believes all inhumane treatment of animals is evil. There are instances where you get people up in arms about halal slaughter who don't care about the cruelty of factory farms or other types of inhumane slaughter whose issue is that Muslims are being catered to in this country. But from an animals rights perspective it's perfectly legitimate to criticise inhumane practices when they're being defended, there's nothing wrong with believing culture or religion shouldn't excuse animal cruelty. His snobby comments about Sadiq Khan's accent had nothing to do with his religion or ethnic background either, he has an English accent. Unless I've missed something I don't think he's made any comments against Muslims 🤷♀️ Morrissey and Khan have fairly similar accents. This is the point. Morrisseys a fucking moron but he’s not a racist, which is why I’ve kept replying because it’s been blown way out of proportion in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian's Inferno! Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 Wtf even is that pyramid? The suggestion that trying to listen to both sides, cultural appropriation or jokes about race are somewhat linked to genocide is absolutely ridiculous. This is why the far left is just as bad as the far right. Shut the fuck up, it's embarrassing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe. Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 13 minutes ago, Christian's Inferno! said: Wtf even is that pyramid? The suggestion that trying to listen to both sides, cultural appropriation or jokes about race are somewhat linked to genocide is absolutely ridiculous. This is why the far left is just as bad as the far right. Shut the fuck up, it's embarrassing! I understand the point of it. Full blown racism starts with small, seemingly insignificant racism that is brushed off. I agree with that point. But as I’ve said before, it oversimplifies that process and also, Morrissey isn’t racist in the quotes we’ve discussed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeJennsitized Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 “Furthermore, halal slaughter requires certification that can only be given by supporters of ISIS, and yet in England we have halal meat served in hospitals and schools!“ https://www.morrisseycentral.com/messagesfrommorrissey/there-is-a-light-that-must-be-switched-on That’s on his own damn website. You can call it a twisted view on animal rights but that doesn’t mean it can’t also be racist. Since it seems that’s what the sticking point is, whether his quotes are racist: I think they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Too domb to die Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 30 minutes ago, DeJennsitized said: “Furthermore, halal slaughter requires certification that can only be given by supporters of ISIS, and yet in England we have halal meat served in hospitals and schools!“ https://www.morrisseycentral.com/messagesfrommorrissey/there-is-a-light-that-must-be-switched-on That’s on his own damn website. You can call it a twisted view on animal rights but that doesn’t mean it can’t also be racist. Since it seems that’s what the sticking point is, whether his quotes are racist: I think they are. That isn't racist. It's critical of religious practises. You can criticise him all you want, but accusing him of doing anything other than commenting on animal rights in different religions is just mental gymnastics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerjeezus Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 1 minute ago, Too domb to die said: That isn't racist. It's critical of religious practises. You can criticise him all you want, but accusing him of doing anything other than commenting on animal rights in different religions is just mental gymnastics. Can you please explain how is spreading lies about ISIS certified halal meat critical of religious practices? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Too domb to die Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 41 minutes ago, Beerjeezus said: Can you please explain how is spreading lies about ISIS certified halal meat critical of religious practices? I was referring to how he was being critical of the method of slaughter with Halal meat and ritual slaughter with Kosher meat in judaism. As far as Isis funded Halal meat is concerned, it's a bit of a leap to suggest it's an outright lie, but definitely foolish for him to come out and say undoubtedly factually accurate. I'll end by saying I believe Morrissey is a good person, but holds divisive views on islamic food preparation. This most certainly shouldn't be a reason to stop anybody working with him creatively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerjeezus Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 3 hours ago, Too domb to die said: I was referring to how he was being critical of the method of slaughter with Halal meat and ritual slaughter with Kosher meat in judaism. As far as Isis funded Halal meat is concerned, it's a bit of a leap to suggest it's an outright lie, but definitely foolish for him to come out and say undoubtedly factually accurate. I'll end by saying I believe Morrissey is a good person, but holds divisive views on islamic food preparation. This most certainly shouldn't be a reason to stop anybody working with him creatively. Fair enough, the criticism of halal/kosher itself isn't a problem, however, the ISIS thing is a lie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Too domb to die Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 4 minutes ago, Beerjeezus said: Fair enough, the criticism of halal/kosher itself isn't a problem, however, the ISIS thing is a lie. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/nov/20/halal-products-funding-islamic-extremism-claims-nationals-mp I'm not saying it isn't a lie, but I wouldn't place a bet on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerjeezus Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 12 minutes ago, Too domb to die said: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/nov/20/halal-products-funding-islamic-extremism-claims-nationals-mp I'm not saying it isn't a lie, but I wouldn't place a bet on it. https://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2015-04-14/fact-check-does-halal-certification-fund-terrorism/6383238 Found a fact check for the claim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Too domb to die Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 Yeah I saw that, but I don't think any form of google fact checking can really prove where dirty money really goes. That's why I remain sceptical on all of it. Hence why I said it 'MIGHT' be a lie, but I wouldn't trust yours or my source to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerjeezus Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 5 minutes ago, Too domb to die said: Yeah I saw that, but I don't think any form of google fact checking can really prove where dirty money really goes. That's why I remain sceptical on all of it. Hence why I said it 'MIGHT' a lie, but I wouldn't trust yours or my source to be honest. I find a source that bothered with searching for facts more trustworthy than a conspiracy theory and also I'm not sure how a regular business like any other qualifies as 'dirty money', but whatever, nothing is 100% and trusting any source is a fair approach so yeah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeJennsitized Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 Jesus fucking Christ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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