Billie Joe Armstrong on new Morrissey Album

[Christian's Inferno!]

I don't get why people feel entitled to know why Billie's featured on this album. Billie doesn't owe anybody an explanation. You can pout about it all you want but you seem entitled

[Beerjeezus]

7 minutes ago, Joe. said:

It doesn't "help" it, but it puts some perspective on the absolute outrage of Billie having a minor feature on a washed up singers' solo album

If the guy is really just willing to say anything to get attention then it's probably just kinda embarrassing to associate with him but whatever, so is dancing in a leopard thong.

12 minutes ago, Too domb to die said:

sinister marxist agenda

[papa]

20 minutes ago, Christian's Inferno! said:

I don't get why people feel entitled to know why Billie's featured on this album. Billie doesn't owe anybody an explanation. You can pout about it all you want but you seem entitled

this.

[Hermione]

25 minutes ago, Beerjeezus said:

If the guy is really just willing to say anything to get attention then it's probably just kinda embarrassing to associate with him but whatever, so is dancing in a leopard thong.

 

And I think that's really what he's known for, for having a big mouth about animal rights and being a bit of a dick, as well as making music a lot of people like. Not being very familiar with him myself that was my impression of him. So that's probably all Billie thinks he's associating with.

[Too domb to die]

1 hour ago, Beerjeezus said:

Sinister Marxist Agenda

That's Green Day's next album title and cover.

[Beerjeezus]

1 minute ago, Too domb to die said:

That's Green Day's next album title and cover.

I hope so!

[Beerjeezus]

37 minutes ago, Hermione said:

And I think that's really what he's known for, for having a big mouth about animal rights and being a bit of a dick, as well as making music a lot of people like. Not being very familiar with him myself that was my impression of him. So that's probably all Billie thinks he's associating with.

Yeah, that's possible.

At the same time Billie has a big mouth when it comes to his politics but his actions don't always match, so imo it's fair to criticize him for it.

[Joe.]

56 minutes ago, Hermione said:

And I think that's really what he's known for, for having a big mouth about animal rights and being a bit of a dick, as well as making music a lot of people like. Not being very familiar with him myself that was my impression of him. So that's probably all Billie thinks he's associating with.

Exactly. It really isn't that deep a decision, its a small feature on an album

1 minute ago, Beerjeezus said:

Yeah, that's possible.

At the same time Billie has a big mouth when it comes to his politics but his actions don't always match, so imo it's fair to criticize him for it.

Of course its fair to criticise, but for me this isn't a political action. Its likely to be a tiny feature on a world famous singers album. 

[Beerjeezus]

2 minutes ago, Joe. said:

Of course its fair to criticise, but for me this isn't a political action. Its likely to be a tiny feature on a world famous singers album. 

Yeah I get that point of view too.

It's kind of hard to put together a coherent picture from his political statements and actions.

On one hand he's supported causes that can hardly be criticized, things like Food Not Bombs, Habitat For Humanity, ACLU, the undocumented immigrants legal support thing, chimps etc. and what counts as a big plus is the fact that he mostly doesn't use this for publicity. He's not one of those people who support a charity and are like LOOK I'M SUCH A GOOD PERSON APPRECIATE ME!!! He's vocal about his opinions and seems to genuinely stand his ground ("well then go fuck yourself you stupid piece of shit").

On the other hand, his political lyrics are mostly very vague, to the point they sometimes lack in meaning (whatever, sounds cool right?), at the same time with being vocal and argumentative, he  sometimes switches into centrism (no racism no sexism but everyone is welcome uwu - this might be a bad example because this can be interpreted as "anyone is welcome, unless you're racist, sexist etc".) And he's chill with collaborations with fairly problematic people.

I don't know what conclusion to come to from all this. He doesn't seem insincere but at the same time his politics aren't radical in any way, but that doesn't make him a bad person. I'm still willing to believe his being vocal about his opinions isn't 100% a PR fabrication, but if it's not I'd say he's a liberal/slightly left-leaning centrist who think it's somehow rebellious to not be a complete asshole "I'm not a racist therefore I'm an activist wow". Or maybe he just really doesn't give a fuck, but he keeps the political artists image going. Who knows lol.

I don't know, this coupld be an episode on Judge Judy.

[Joe.]

23 minutes ago, Beerjeezus said:

Yeah I get that point of view too.

It's kind of hard to put together a coherent picture from his political statements and actions.

On one hand he's supported causes that can hardly be criticized, things like Food Not Bombs, Habitat For Humanity, ACLU, the undocumented immigrants legal support thing, chimps etc. and what counts as a big plus is the fact that he mostly doesn't use this for publicity. He's not one of those people who support a charity and are like LOOK I'M SUCH A GOOD PERSON APPRECIATE ME!!! He's vocal about his opinions and seems to genuinely stand his ground ("well then go fuck yourself you stupid piece of shit").

On the other hand, his political lyrics are mostly very vague, to the point they sometimes lack in meaning (whatever, sounds cool right?), at the same time with being vocal and argumentative, he  sometimes switches into centrism (no racism no sexism but everyone is welcome uwu - this might be a bad example because this can be interpreted as "anyone is welcome, unless you're racist, sexist etc".) And he's chill with collaborations with fairly problematic people.

I don't know what conclusion to come to from all this. He doesn't seem insincere but at the same time his politics aren't radical in any way, but that doesn't make him a bad person. I'm still willing to believe his being vocal about his opinions isn't 100% a PR fabrication, but if it's not I'd say he's a liberal/slightly left-leaning centrist who think it's somehow rebellious to not be a complete asshole "I'm not a racist therefore I'm an activist wow". Or maybe he just really doesn't give a fuck, but he keeps the political artists image going. Who knows lol.

I don't know, this coupld be an episode on Judge Judy.

Thats Billie Joe, the causes Ive seen him be vocal about are ones more left leaning people world support. I don't think its a PR stunt I just think he uses his platform to draw attention to some very obvious issues. Billie Joe isn't at the cutting edge of politics and never really has been. Thats my point. Its not as deep as everyones making the situation out to be.

[Beerjeezus]

49 minutes ago, Joe. said:

Thats Billie Joe, the causes Ive seen him be vocal about are ones more left leaning people world support. I don't think its a PR stunt I just think he uses his platform to draw attention to some very obvious issues. Billie Joe isn't at the cutting edge of politics and never really has been. Thats my point. Its not as deep as everyones making the situation out to be.

Yeah, basically that's why it sometimes seems fake. It's not entirely PR but he's less involved than he makes it look like.

[Joe.]

5 hours ago, Hermione said:

Morrissey isn't a UKIP politician. Do you really believe that every person who supports UKIP or even has anything positive to say about any aspect of the party is a racist? And that anyone who thinks people with offensive views should be allowed to air them rather than be censored automatically agrees with the views? Things aren't as black and white as you're painting it. The US Republican party is further right than UKIP so better start condemning a lot more musicians for simply working with half the US population. 

 

This. This whole thread kinda sums up politics at the moment, anyone to the right is a Fascist and everyone to the left is a Communist. Do I agree with UKIP or the BNP? FUCK NO. Do I think everyone who votes UKIP is a racist? No (BNP yes though fuck them). People have a right to say what they like, I might not like what they say but I'll defend their right to say it. Instead of censoring issues, challenge them, debate people, talk, show others why they're being idiots rather than write people off. Morrissey's views come from a real place in Britain, the Daily Mail reading cabbages exist, start a dialogue with them. Who knows, maybe thats what Billie might try and do?

1 minute ago, Beerjeezus said:

Yeah, basically that's why it sometimes seems fake. It's not entirely PR but he's less involved than he makes it look like.

I don't thin he's ever misled anyone. He cares about politics but its not his life, he's vocals on obvious issues like most celebrities but its delusional to expect him to care about every single thing or write off Morrissey because he's become what a lot of people in his generation have, a delusional, bumbling fool.

The man still wrote some great songs and has talent, leave it at that, so I completely understand why Billie would collaborate

[Beerjeezus]

8 minutes ago, Joe. said:

I don't thin he's ever misled anyone. He cares about politics but its not his life, he's vocals on obvious issues like most celebrities but its delusional to expect him to care about every single thing or write off Morrissey because he's become what a lot of people in his generation have, a delusional, bumbling fool.

The man still wrote some great songs and has talent, leave it at that, so I completely understand why Billie would collaborate

Well, yeah it's naive to buy into his image

[Hermione]

9 hours ago, Beerjeezus said:

Yeah, that's possible.

At the same time Billie has a big mouth when it comes to his politics but his actions don't always match, so imo it's fair to criticize him for it.

Yeah I'm with you that things Billie says on political subjects that can be contradictory or too vague etc can be criticised. I just don't think working on a song with a musician who's political opinions he might not even be aware of and that there's no reason to think he agrees with (and that are very confused anyway) is that relevant to it. I agree about how he can be wishy washy about things at times (saying no racists no sexists but other times everyone's welcome and both sides should come together etc), but I think it's mostly just down to being a liberal from a generation that isn't as radical about things, and like a lot of people not that well educated about everything. Also sometimes his thing is more being passionate about getting people to care about what happens in the world more and just expressing his reaction to what he sees going on than advocating about a particular issue. He can say things that sound silly at times and it can be frustrating when you want him to take a stronger position but I think he's sincere.

[WhiteTim]

This is it for me I’m throwing everything GD related away deleting Billie’s IG from my account and even the shrine I built of Billie using qtips and toothbrushes away* 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*thats a lie and no I don’t have a shrine 😂

 

[Beerjeezus]

I miss the simpler times when our Billie discourse was about him drinking non-alcoholic beer and having fun 

[pacejunkie punk]

9 hours ago, Hermione said:

Yeah I'm with you that things Billie says on political subjects that can be contradictory or too vague etc can be criticised. I just don't think working on a song with a musician who's political opinions he might not even be aware of and that there's no reason to think he agrees with (and that are very confused anyway) is that relevant to it. I agree about how he can be wishy washy about things at times (saying no racists no sexists but other times everyone's welcome and both sides should come together etc), but I think it's mostly just down to being a liberal from a generation that isn't as radical about things, and like a lot of people not that well educated about everything. Also sometimes his thing is more being passionate about getting people to care about what happens in the world more and just expressing his reaction to what he sees going on than advocating about a particular issue. He can say things that sound silly at times and it can be frustrating when you want him to take a stronger position but I think he's sincere.

He never claimed to be that smart. Quite the opposite in fact, most of his songs are about feeling overwhelmed, lost and confused by the world and not being able to make sense of it. He has passionate reactions to injustice like many of us but people hear that and expect him to have clear direction and all the answers for some reason. He’s not Martin Luther King or Ghandi. 

Edit: what Billie and all this really reminds me of is this (starting at 1:49) 😂

 

[Beerjeezus]

I'd rather give him the benefit of doubt and not assume he's stupid just because his views don't 100% match mine.

[Joe.]

42 minutes ago, Beerjeezus said:

I'd rather give him the benefit of doubt and not assume he's stupid just because his views don't 100% match mine.

Think the point is that Billie doesn't really have an 'ideology' other than being broadly on the Left, and that working with someone who's broadly on the right doesn't really mean anything

[The Bellie]

I'm puzzled that everything people say nowadays must be turned into a political color, "left" or "right". When Billie says, on one hand, that everyone is welcome at a GD show and on the other hand, no racism, no sexism, no homophobia, it isn't contradictory, it works together: if you agree that everyone is equal and accepted, you can't be discriminatory. At the same time, he doesn't care what politics we adhere to. How is his behavior so unfitting with his speech then? Like he said in that post where he got mad against people in the comments, "it doesn't matter of you're liberal or conservative". He surely believes that. He wants to rise above politics and to be able to come together despite differences.

He may be more sensible to not marking a difference in politics, precisely, since he comes from a background of typical Trump voters, like he said himself. He admitted he could have been in that case if he hadn't made his way through punk, and he knows it isn't the right thing to oppose people for politics. He said before that to him, Trump's problem is not his conservative agenda, it's his immorality that goes beyond politics. So I don't get why we should keep marking this difference (leftist/rightist) and wanting to define everything he says with politics. I'd say even more Billie is in accordance with his speech since he doesn't refuse to collaborate with Morrissey because of different political views than his. He precisely said it didn't matter. It is complex because where is the line between dickhead and fascist, but it's not up to us to draw that line for him. 

I was among the first to say I felt bad for the fan whom he said, in the comments, "go fuck yourself you stupid piece of shit", but I bet Billie got angry because that fan said "you're liberal and people have the right to support Trump". So Billie who had just said that people's politics didn't matter, is replied to that all this is about politics, he's against Trump because he's liberal, and his ranting is useless. Useless indeed, he didn't even manage to make himself understood... which is sad because his ranting is not political. It's moral. It may be an emotional response to what he sees going on, and he may not be able to apply it himself perfectly (cf the answer he made to that fan, who could have potentially been any of us), but it sure comes from the heart. I prefer him like that, expressing even emotionally how he feels, reacting like any of us may do on the internet, even if it exposes him a lot, than not saying anything because he would want to make the accordance between everything he says and does straight away obvious for everyone to see.  

[Q-Man]

The amount of bitching in this thread is baffling. Billie is a human, he wanted to make music with someone and he did. The politics shouldn't matter. Do none of the people complaining have any friends that have different political views? It is possible to get along great with people and disagree with them. I can't stand Morrissey cause he is a pretentious dick but I think it's cool that Billie is collaborating with him, two legends in the music industry working together is always fun.

[DeJennsitized]

Alright, since my opinion's been bitched about for the last page and a half, I'll just lay it out here to clear up any confusion.

In my opinion, if you associate with someone who supports certain right wing ideologies, you're implying that it doesn't bother you. And it probably doesn't bother you because it doesn't directly affect you. You can say it's insignificant, or it's not relevant, or 'of course you can still be friends with people with harmful views'. But it's part of a wider picture of "tolerating" racism for the sake of peace and quiet, and I can't support that. 

I never said he owes me an explanation for working with Morrissey. In fact, everyone else appears to be scrambling for possible reasons he's working with him but I said in my last post in this thread that he can do whatever he wants, doesn't have to explain it, but I'm not going to support the decision. 

And, yes, picking through the views of every musician ever is impossible, but we know Billie Joe's views as he expresses them all the time, and same for Morrissey. So I don't think it's crazy to think 'well this is a bit dodgy.' If you're going to stand up to racism, it has to be in actions too, not just words.

[Too domb to die]

Morrissey Isn't racist in the slightest. Even with the smallest amount of research you will discover how ridiculous a claim that is . He has questioned how the far left conduct themselves and how anyone with a political view, 1 degree right of Antifa, are considered Nazis. The fact that this has been happening so regularly over the past 4 years has diluted the word 'racist' as it carelessly gets bandied about and used as a weapon to demonise anybody with an opposing view on unfiltered illegal immigration to silence them. 

[Joe.]

1 hour ago, DeJennsitized said:

Alright, since my opinion's been bitched about for the last page and a half, I'll just lay it out here to clear up any confusion.

In my opinion, if you associate with someone who supports certain right wing ideologies, you're implying that it doesn't bother you. And it probably doesn't bother you because it doesn't directly affect you. You can say it's insignificant, or it's not relevant, or 'of course you can still be friends with people with harmful views'. But it's part of a wider picture of "tolerating" racism for the sake of peace and quiet, and I can't support that. 

I never said he owes me an explanation for working with Morrissey. In fact, everyone else appears to be scrambling for possible reasons he's working with him but I said in my last post in this thread that he can do whatever he wants, doesn't have to explain it, but I'm not going to support the decision. 

And, yes, picking through the views of every musician ever is impossible, but we know Billie Joe's views as he expresses them all the time, and same for Morrissey. So I don't think it's crazy to think 'well this is a bit dodgy.' If you're going to stand up to racism, it has to be in actions too, not just words.

I'm not here to tolerate racism, its something I'm obviously firmly against. My point is that Morrissey isn't that radical in his "racist" views. All I can find he's said is that halal and kosher is "evil" because they're so cruel. His comments about religion have always been from an animal rights background. 

Again, saying Tommy Robinson deserved a fair trial or supporting UKIP isn't a racist statement. They're things that should be accepted in a Liberal society, the mans allowed to be a Conservative, just as Billie is allowed to be a Liberal and I'm allowed to be a Socialist.

To suggest collaborating with an artist who isn't overtly racist, just has the same Xenophobic views as half his generation in Britain, is a betrayal of Billie's morales is ridiculous. Yes Morrissey is a standard issue xenophobe, but we're talking about a minor collaboration. Of course his views are ridiculous, but if people wrote off every single mis-informed idiot they met then they'd be leading a lonely life. In my view, its nothing to do with "tolerating racism", if Morrissey was out burning crosses then I'd be right with you. But he's not. He's said halal meat was evil. He's said he has fears over immigration. Thats not racist, just moronic.

[Hermione]

14 hours ago, DeJennsitized said:

someone who supports certain right wing ideologies,

Which right wing ideologies does he support though? Just because someone has said things that are offensive or has made statements that are racist it doesn't necessarily mean they are a racist or support an ideology. Being against halal slaughter on the basis of animal cruelty, believing that offensive opinions should be allowed to be expressed under free speech, being for stricter immigration or leaving Europe or making a snobby comment about a politician speaking with a slang (English) accent aren't things that are racist in and of themselves, ignorant perhaps but not racist. His actual racist comments have been where he's making his point about animal rights in a deliberately insensitive way to get attention (eg his comment about the Chinese when talking about China's animal rights record). Comments like that should absolutely be called out, but still aren't indicative of a racist or right wing ideology, more like indicative of being rude and a dick.

Just because a Guardian article says he's a right wing bigot it doesn't mean he is, aside from the silly attention seeking controversial/offensive way he makes his points and his animals rights stuff I can't see that he holds any particularly extreme views. Certainly no more extreme than what you get from US Republicans/conservatives or the average Tory. If Billie's going to be condemned for working with Morrissey for his views he better be condemned for working with a whole lot more people who aren't as left wing as him.