Billie Joe Armstrong on new Morrissey Album

[Joe.]

2 minutes ago, The Bellie said:

Plot twist: Billie is attracted to ugly, blue-eyed, reputed racist dudes and likes to get taught once in a while not to get to vehement on their racist asses. It helps him stay compassionate towards all human beings. Who can do more can do less. Another masochist effect is that it destroys half of his own fanbase who hate racism. On the other side, Morrissey has clearly fallen in love with Billie and the song is an indirect marriage proposal. As he knows it can't be fulfilled, he misspelled Billie's name on the Twitter post as a bitter teasing.

 

[The Bellie]

I'm just trying to soften the atmosphere 

[Beerjeezus]

This is way too life changing. I'm going to bed.

[John E Maher]

I've said before, Morrissey is basically extremely muddled when it comes to politics. He urged Americans to vote for Bernie Sanders in the last US election. Although he said he liked Nigel Farage (right wing British politician) he said in the same sentence that he liked George Galloway (a passionate left wing British politician). He expressed support for the right wing party, For Britain, but he was drawn to them because they are led by a lesbian feminist (he is a staunch feminist) who is a keen supporter of animal rights (an obsession of his).

Go to his concerts and the pre-show video display has lots of black singers and groups, go to his website and on the landing page www.morrisseycentral.com/ there is simply the image of (and a quote from) black activist James Baldwin. In a 2004 song of his he bemoaned the fact that in America 'the president is never black, female or gay'. He is a muddled and confused man when it comes to politics and international relations, and he's said some pretty stupid things recently (I've gone right off him in the last few years) but to describe him as racist is a bit ridiculous.

[solongfromthestars]

1 hour ago, The Bellie said:

I saw you wrote further but all the replies are a bit fast to follow 

First, I just want to quote this because I think the same:

Also, just because someone is not bothered by Billie working with Morrissey doesn't even mean they have never suffered from racism, like you said in the first sentence of what I quoted. Personally, as half Romanian and half Lebanese, I know what it's like to be considered at first regarding your origins, and my parents know it even better than me and we speak quite a bit about it. I've noticed they can be "racist" (at least, what you would call racist, for sure ) in their own ways and it even sometimes pisses me off. But in truth it's perfectly harmless, as I notice when I discuss it more with them instead of thinking they're racist, which they're not. A simple isolated quote, while the person claims not be racist like Morrissey, doesn't mean much.

For my part, I respect how everyone feels, I didn't see anyone telling someone else how to feel. I personally don't think Morrissey is even racist, and I don't care much about what he has said, to tell the truth. I don't want to pretend being offended where I'm not. That's just me. After reading a slight bit about the man, I don't like him, I don't care abut him, but I respect Billie if he has any connection to him and I don't care which. Does it mean I've never been touched by any kind of racism or that I don't care about it? No, it doesn't at all, that's just an assumption you (or anyone) could make. I think we should go a bit slower before thinking to know how people really feel or what they've experienced. even with the same information and I'd go so far as to say the same experience, people react differently and every reaction should be just as respectable and respectful as the others.

It's really a bit sad that we come to seemingly mistrust one another while no one here, at the end of the say, defends racism . I don't think Billie or Adie are hypocritical for the least. I didn't read the comments on Instagram, only on Youtube where Morrissey has posted the song, and people rejoiced themselves for the collab. That's the only reason it was made for. Music, enjoyment. Along with this, Morrissey has always claimed not to be a racist. You can think of me whatever you want but I believe he is sincere while saying that. It doesn't mean I like what he says or does (I don't like the aggressive way he militates for animal rights, for instance) but I don't pretend to judge in place of Billie why the collaboration took place. And I love how Billie speaks against racism and hopes he continues to do so (I'm sure he will).

It wasn't what I said that everyone who simply isn't bothered by the collab has never been affected by racism. I'm sure there are plenty of others who've experienced it but aren't bothered either. I was referring specifically to the people behaving as if being disappointed by this is unreasonable or an overreaction, like Savannah saying "And people should calm down. Some fans behave like he starts to record an album with Trump." Even if she (or anyone else doing so) isn't white, I still don't think they should be telling other victims of racism to calm down. I'm sorry if my post upset you because I know you're Lebanese and wouldn't want to invalidate your experiences of racism. I really did just mean the people I feel are putting victims of racism down in order to defend Billie or Morrissey - not people who simply don't agree with the collab.

I can't agree that Morrissey isn't racist. I don't think any differently of you for saying so but it's not something I can agree with. In my opinion, someone can't say racist things, then claim they're not racist because they didn't mean to be. It's not even that his comments offend me, I just feel they're harmful because they encourage his fans to think those beliefs are acceptable. I'd probably have carried on unaware of his existence without this collab, because a washed up old man's racism isn't something I'd generally get riled up about. But since he's collided with something incredibly important to me (Billie) I'm commenting on it.

I honestly don't think anyone has been excessively judgmental of Billie. Racism is a touchy subject and people are bound to react badly because as you say, all our experiences are different and we all react differently to them. My experiences mean I can't feel positively about the collab. That doesn't mean I think Billie (or anyone else) is a terrible person. I'm still a fan because I enjoy his music and lyrics. I also don't expect him to stop speaking out against racism, because I realise he means no harm and his heart is in the right place. But I can't feel comfortable with this one collab and I don't think that's unreasonable.

[Christian's Inferno!]

3 minutes ago, solongfromthestars said:

It wasn't what I said that everyone who simply isn't bothered by the collab has never been affected by racism. I'm sure there are plenty of others who've experienced it but aren't bothered either. I was referring specifically to the people behaving as if being disappointed by this is unreasonable or an overreaction, like Savannah saying "And people should calm down. Some fans behave like he starts to record an album with Trump." Even if she (or anyone else doing so) isn't white, I still don't think they should be telling other victims of racism to calm down. I'm sorry if my post upset you because I know you're Lebanese and wouldn't want to invalidate your experiences of racism. I really did just mean the people I feel are putting victims of racism down in order to defend Billie or Morrissey - not people who simply don't agree with the collab.

I can't agree that Morrissey isn't racist. I don't think any differently of you for saying so but it's not something I can agree with. In my opinion, someone can't say racist things, then claim they're not racist because they didn't mean to be. It's not even that his comments offend me, I just feel they're harmful because they encourage his fans to think those beliefs are acceptable. I'd probably have carried on unaware of his existence without this collab, because a washed up old man's racism isn't something I'd generally get riled up about. But since he's collided with something incredibly important to me (Billie) I'm commenting on it.

I honestly don't think anyone has been excessively judgmental of Billie. Racism is a touchy subject and people are bound to react badly because as you say, all our experiences are different and we all react differently to them. My experiences mean I can't feel positively about the collab. That doesn't mean I think Billie (or anyone else) is a terrible person. I'm still a fan because I enjoy his music and lyrics. I also don't expect him to stop speaking out against racism, because I realise he means no harm and his heart is in the right place. But I can't feel comfortable with this one collab.

I don't think anyone's saying you're being unreasonable by being disappointed. We just disagree and think being disappointed in unnecessary because we don't feel Billie's done anything wrong.

I don't really find Morrissey's opinions harmful because I feel anyone who agrees with his racist views are probably already racist themselves.

I think my problem is people thinking Billie's done something really wrong by doing this collab without even knowing the circumstances of the collab and just making assumptions

[solongfromthestars]

4 minutes ago, Christian's Inferno! said:

I don't think anyone's saying you're being unreasonable by being disappointed. We just disagree and think being disappointed in unnecessary because we don't feel Billie's done anything wrong.

I don't really find Morrissey's opinions harmful because I feel anyone who agrees with his racist views are probably already racist themselves.

I think my problem is people thinking Billie's done something really wrong by doing this collab without even knowing the circumstances of the collab and just making assumptions

I mean, I've said that I don't think Billie has done anything terribly wrong. I know my disappointment is my own opinion and isn't the final say on whether or not the collab should have happened. I'm pretty sure no one else means to imply otherwise. It's just something we can agree to disagree on.

[moonflower93]

On 4/6/2019 at 3:41 PM, neverdone2000 said:

How much of Hillary’s platform did you disagree with?

she copied Bernie's platform though. 

[duckez]

I've never dealt with racism but isn't it kinda a fact that it isn't a big deal? Not Morrissey being racist, but Billie doing the song with him. The bottom line is that Billie can do whatever he wants. Politics have nothing to do with this. No ones going to hear this anyways. It barely even supports Morrissey. 

[Savannah89]

10 hours ago, solongfromthestars said:

Some fans behave like he starts to record an album with Trump." Even if she (or anyone else doing so) isn't white, I still don't think they should be telling other victims of racism to calm down.

I won't give my whole point here, but I refered to the shitstorm on instagram and this is my opinion. A musician starts to sings a song (ONE SONG) with another band member that has a controversial opinion and everybody is freaking out.

He just worked with him on a normal working relationship. Nobody says that it means that he shares his opinion. What some people are doing by calling Billie that bad things is not better than trump critizising people for what they are.  Just in a different way.

Instagram users are categorizing people and this is pretty dangerous, because you think there is only a left or a right corner and nothing in between.

That's not how it works. There is grey. There is not only black or white or left or right. 

You stigmatize people for their political views. A whole person. It's like saying somebody is a drug addict or jobless and so on and that's exactly what a lot of people don't want to be, but are.

See it from a different point: Two persons with two different political opinions do something together.  This is a big effort.

As I said. As an adult you must learn to accept other peoples opinion while working/interact with them.

 

I once had a co worker that hated immigrants and people from syria, afghanistan and so on. Despite that I had to work with him. I couldn't say: Fuck you, I don't like your opinion, so I'm not working with you.

Does this make me some right wing person? We just had a working relationship and something totally different to do, so I had to accept his opinion, even when I had a totally different one.

Excluding people for their political view doesn't help. You have to sit on a table with them.

[WhiteTim]

35 minutes ago, Savannah89 said:

I won't give my whole point here, but I refered to the shitstorm on instagram and this is my opinion. A musician starts to sings a song (ONE SONG) with another band member that has a controversial opinion and everybody is freaking out.

He just worked with him on a normal working relationship. Nobody says that it means that he shares his opinion. What some people are doing by calling Billie that bad things is not better than trump critizising people for what they are.  Just in a different way.

Instagram users are categorizing people and this is pretty dangerous, because you think there is only a left or a right corner and nothing in between.

That's not how it works. There is grey. There is not only black or white or left or right. 

You stigmatize people for their political views. A whole person. It's like saying somebody is a drug addict or jobless and so on and that's exactly what a lot of people don't want to be, but are.

See it from a different point: Two persons with two different political opinions do something together.  This is a big effort.

As I said. As an adult you must learn to accept other peoples opinion while working/interact with them.

 

I once had a co worker that hated immigrants and people from syria, afghanistan and so on. Despite that I had to work with him. I couldn't say: Fuck you, I don't like your opinion, so I'm not working with you.

Does this make me some right wing person? We just had a working relationship and something totally different to do, so I had to accept his opinion, even when I had a totally different one.

Excluding people for their political view doesn't help. You have to sit on a table with them.

No doesn’t make you a right wing person however your situation and the situation with Billie and Morrissey isn’t really comparable  you didn’t have a choice of working with the co worker you have a boss who would have given you two options work with the co worker or quit/get fired 

Billie doesn’t exactly have a boss (well I mean he does as he’s an artist who is signed to a label but they don’t operate the same way as you or others do) but he could have easily not done the song no boss to make him do the song no “you either do this song with Morrissey or you’re fired” ultimatums so in a way Billie doesn’t HAVE to “sit at the table with them” if he doesn’t want to 

[Savannah89]

Tell this to Billie and he will love you.

I don’t depend on my job.  My husband  earns good and despite that I could have changed my job. I didn’t leave because there are always people that doesn’t share your opinion.  People are stigmatizing too much and this is a really dangerous thing. 

 

If Morrissey is a good musician despite his political things, why shouldn’t he sing a song with him? We are not in the era ofHitler where people  get a star to tell others they are left winged, right winged, gay or mental ill . You might hear the irony in my voice and sorry for this comparison but some fans would like to be tolerant and at the same time they are criticizing their idol for doing a music project, just because the friend has another political opinion. How sick is that?

When you become older you will realize that people have different opinions and that you still have to accept it.  People are not black or white. If you start classifying you have to move to a lonely island without people around you

 

Excluding people forms dangerous cultures. Maybe Billie had an argument with him and discussed political stuff and afterwards they were singing. We don’t know that

[Beerjeezus]

15 minutes ago, Savannah89 said:

some fans would like to be tolerant and at the same time they are criticizing their idol for having a different opinion 

I would not like to be tolerant to racism and moreover, I'm just as free to have an opinion as Billie Joe is. He can go on a forum and complain about Beerjeezus not liking Morrissey if he feels like it.

[Savannah89]

And I accept your opinion. 🙂

That‘s what a good discussion is about

People can be pissed and angry but it’s history anyway. He already recorded the song or used to sing it

[Little Boy Named Booze]

I went to bed yesterday while reading comments on a debate that is not worth it.

I wake up this morning reading more comments on a debate that is not worth it.

[Beerjeezus]

4 minutes ago, Little Boy Named Airplane said:

I went to bed yesterday while reading comments on a debate that is not worth it.

I wake up this morning reading more comments on a debate that is not worth it.

That's GDC in a nutshell

[Rumpelstiltskin2000]

Firstly, I do feel that Billie (as someone who is so outspoken about racism) or Billie's name have been used to promote Morrisey's new album. Especially because it's the first single and Billie's name is blasted onto it even though he can barely be heard. Smart move of Morrisey/his record label. If Billie really is such a big fan then that was probably used to reel him in.

Secondly I think people are still missing the point. For the last few pages people are no longer talking about the collaboration or Billie being a racist (in fact people are actually saying that they don't think Billie is a racist or a bad person). However, others are still continuing to defend Billie by saying racism is just a differing opinion that can be ignored when it's a fact that racism simply isn't an opinion.

This discussion could have been ended pages ago without the insistence that racisim is a differing opinion and that's what is alarming to other fans.

[Savannah89]

I bet my ass Billie sits  behind his sceen and laughs his ass off about fans calling him a racist 

[Rumpelstiltskin2000]

3 minutes ago, Savannah89 said:

I bet my ass Billie sits  behind his sceen and laughs his ass off about fans calling him a racist 

 

8 minutes ago, Rumpelstiltskin2000 said:

in fact people are actually saying that they don't think Billie is a racist or a bad person

 

 

[Savannah89]

Some but sadly not all. 

[Hermione]

I don't think racism is just a difference of opinion at all, just to be clear. But I think outside of music Morrissey is more known for his political comments/position (eg being pro Brexit or saying he thinks Nigel Farage would make a good leader etc, having some surprisingly right wing and/or inconsistent views) which can be classed much more as just a difference of opinion, than for the dumb racist comments he's made which have usually been in connection with animal rights.

So it's kind of two different things here.....a lot of people will be aware that Morrissey has some right wing views (not necessarily an obstacle to wanting to work with him) but not be aware of the racist quotes he's given when discussing animals rights which are slightly more specific and obscure. Speaking of the comments about this in general (on Instagram etc not just here) this leads to it looking like racist comments are being called a difference of opinion when someone might just be thinking about him having right wing views. If people are saying to Billie "Morrissey's a right wing racist pos" without specific examples of racist quotes that can sound an awful lot like they're just saying he shouldn't work with anyone with right wing political views, which he might not agree with.

[Libertine Angel]

 

6 hours ago, Savannah89 said:

 

You stigmatize people for their political views. A whole person. It's like saying somebody is a drug addict or jobless and so on and that's exactly what a lot of people don't want to be, but are.

 

Excluding people for their political view doesn't help. You have to sit on a table with them.

Outspoken racism isn't a political view, and it's not remotely comparable to employment status or drug use, it's a conscious belief that a group of people are inferior because of their appearance and it should not ever be tolerated or accepted. Differing political opinion is for shit like taxes on the wealthy, not whether or not ethnic groups deserve equality.

There's a saying in Germany - "if you have ten people sat at a table with a Nazi, you have a table with eleven Nazis".

[walking_c0ntradicti0n]

3 hours ago, Rumpelstiltskin2000 said:

 

 

 

Rumpelstiltskin hittin with the FACTS

 

[Savannah89]

2 hours ago, Libertine Angel said:

Outspoken racism isn't a political view, and it's not remotely comparable to employment status or drug use, i

I think you didn't get my point and no I'm not in the mood to explain it again, because I'm sick of this discussions. 

 

All I'm saying is: You can't value a person just because of it's political opinion.  People are no computers or cleaners or technical things that are good or bad. And saying that Morrisey would be a racist is another chapter that goes much too far. and it would be kind of a heavy conclusion. Stigmatizing people in a really, really, really bad way  is what happened during world war 2 . People got a yellow star badge  for being jewish or others got it for being gay, lesbian or their political side and so on. It happened in germany, it happened in Chile years later in another way (just google pinochet) and  it happened in several other countries. 

That's why it's really dangerous to evaluate somebody as right winged person or categorize people in good or bad.  It can got out of hands pretty quickly. 

That's why the political situation in the world (especially in first world countries) is really dangerous right now. I know humans like to categorize in good or bad or left or right or whatever but it's not like this. It divides nations. It divides friends, people.

 

Even here. GDC is a place for fans coming together and it already seems like it divides us as fan crowd.

 

Despite that this whole discussion here won't lead to anything. Billie Joe Armstrong can collaborate with any kind of human being. It's his decsion. He's a grown man and if you don't like it you have different choices.

a.) Make your statement clear and write to him (maybe your lucky and he reads it)

b.) Stop listening to his music and choose a different band 

c.) Deal with it.

d.) Complain about it on here with the truth that he might never read it

 

It happened. It's already history. You can't change it anymore.

[Savannah89]

2 hours ago, Libertine Angel said:

if you have ten people sat at a table with a Nazi, you have a table with eleven Nazis".

 

I'm german and I've never heard it. So, it can't be so common. 

So it is better to exclude those people in your opinion? To let them be between themselves, right? 

Good luck then. I can already tell you what happens if you do so. You force parallel societies like you already have in big cities.

People that are extremely rich or extremely poor and that happens if you differentiate left and right political opinions.

You maximize the risk of getting a civil war.

As a social worker I worked with people that you would call a racist at projects.

And I can tell you: Most of them grew up in poverty and they searched for somebody to put on all their anger. 

Excluding them doesn't bring you anywhere because they feel themselves encouraged in their opinion.

And this is not just a phenomenum for right wing people.

I used to live in Hamburg during the G20 act. Trust me, if people whether they are right or left wing come together it can lead to catastrophic circumstances.

People broke into supermarkets, into houses, start fires. Either if it's right or left, if you start stigmatizing people and stop talking, it leads into war (earlier or later)

 

If you want to understand racism, you have to understand the socialization those people grew up in. 

And you don't solve any problems by saying: Oh, they're racists, just let us exclude them.