Billie Joe Armstrong on new Morrissey Album

[Little Boy Named Booze]

Oh my god I don't understand why this subject is going south. It's just a collab. Morrissey is not Billie Joe best friend.

I guess Billie heard about Morrissey project. He accept and made the collab. I don't think they spoke politics during the time they met lol.

[solongfromthestars]

I'm so glad people who've never experienced racism have visited this thread to let us all know how to feel. After a lifetime of dealing with racism, now I know it's just a differing opinion I should ignore.

In all seriousness, the criticism of Billie in this thread isn't even that vehement. People are allowed to be disappointed in something you don't find disappointing - especially if you're going to preach about how they should ignore "differing opinions."  

[Savannah89]

I once worked with right wing people during a project that contained my tasks as a social worker.

That didn't made me a right wing person too.

Maybe Billie and him had just some kind of working relationship.

But again: He didn't worked with Hitler. It's just morrissey. 

 

I can already picture him saying to his wife: "Jeez, whatever I'm doing. Nothing is right." 

[DeJennsitized]

2 minutes ago, Savannah89 said:

I once worked with right wing people during a project that contained my tasks as a social worker.

That didn't made me a right wing person too.

Maybe Billie and him had just some kind of working relationship.

But again: He didn't worked with Hitler. It's just morrissey. 

 

I can already picture him saying to his wife: "Jeez, whatever I'm doing. Nothing is right." 

No one is saying he’s a right winger 🙄 the reasons people have issues with it have been explained countless times throughout the thread.

And of course that’s what you’re picturing 😏

[Savannah89]

Look at instagram. They are using the words right wing and worse 

[Beerjeezus]

4 minutes ago, Savannah89 said:

Look at instagram. They are using the words right wing and worse 

It's only true.

[Christian's Inferno!]

8 minutes ago, solongfromthestars said:

I'm so glad people who've never experienced racism have visited this thread to let us all know how to feel. After a lifetime of dealing with racism, now I know it's just a differing opinion I should ignore.

In all seriousness, the criticism of Billie in this thread isn't even that vehement. People are allowed to be disappointed in something you don't find disappointing - especially if you're going to preach about how they should ignore "differing opinions."  

Maybe don't assume people haven't experienced racism just because they don't think this is a big deal. I don't think you're understanding the point we're making that maybe Billie doesn't know what Morrissey's said, and that collaborating with someone with different/controversial politics doesn't make Billie racist or hypocritical

[Rumpelstiltskin2000]

Wow, I'm old and almost quite the opposite of "woke" but the "white privilege" showing through in this thread is, to be honest, quite nauseating. 

What can I say - obviously we're all entitled to our opinions but "racism" isn't an opinion. 

I really honestly wasn't going to get involved in this thread at all but I'm kind of speechless now.

[Christian's Inferno!]

2 minutes ago, Rumpelstiltskin2000 said:

Wow, I'm old and almost quite the opposite of "woke" but the "white privilege" showing through in this thread is, to be honest, quite nauseating. 

What can I say - obviously we're all entitled to our opinions but "racism" isn't an opinion. 

I really honestly wasn't going to get involved in this thread at all but I'm kind of speechless now.

Because we don't think Billie should be condemned for Morrissey's actions?

[Rumpelstiltskin2000]

3 minutes ago, Christian's Inferno! said:

Because we don't think Billie should be condemned for Morrissey's actions?

No that's not what I said. I think we need to stop telling people who are considered "of colour" how to feel about "racism" that actually affects them in their everyday lives.

[Christian's Inferno!]

Just now, Rumpelstiltskin2000 said:

No that's not what I said. I think we need to stop telling people who are considered "of colour" how to feel about "racism" that actually affects them in their everyday lives.

Nobody here knows who anybody else's race is and nobody's telling anybody how to feel about Morrissey's racism

[Joe.]

This, along with The First of the Gang to Die, is the only Morrissey solo song I've listened to and really enjoyed, so props to Billie for that.

 

3 minutes ago, Christian's Inferno! said:

Because we don't think Billie should be condemned for Morrissey's actions?

It comes to a point where Billie must know man, it's all over his instagram. Im not trying to rehash the conversation or tell others how to feel, but whilst I think the whole argument is very overblown, i don't think there's much of a case for not knowing.

For the record I think Billie has done something similar to me, looked at the comments in the context they were put in, thought about the opportunity this collaboration is and decided that contextualising the comments reduces their weight substantially and gone ahead with the collaboration. Im not saying this is right and I'm not trying to put down those who are offended by Morrissey's comments, but I can certainly see a train of logic that puts Billie in this position, because its probably the same thing I would've done.

2 minutes ago, Rumpelstiltskin2000 said:

No that's not what I said. I think we need to stop telling people who are considered "of colour" how to feel about "racism" that actually affects them in their everyday lives.

Exactly and why this endless argument is pointless. I view Morrissey's comments in one way as someone that isn't affected by them (and Billie is in the same boat) and others that are offended by them see them in another. Whilst I think the context of these comments reduce their harm substantially, I completely accept that a considerable portion of the Green Day fanbase is affected by these comments.

[solongfromthestars]

17 minutes ago, Christian's Inferno! said:

Maybe don't assume people haven't experienced racism just because they don't think this is a big deal. I don't think you're understanding the point we're making that maybe Billie doesn't know what Morrissey's said, and that collaborating with someone with different/controversial politics doesn't make Billie racist or hypocritical

I didn't say everyone who thinks it isn't a big deal hasn't experienced racism. I mentioned people telling others how to feel and by that, I meant behaving as if disagreeing with the collab is invalid or unreasonable, because I assume (perhaps naively) that if someone has experienced racism, they wouldn't be putting others who have down. Regardless, if anyone who feels attacked by my post isn't white they're welcome to correct me.

I said quite clearly in my first post on this that I don't think it makes Billie racist, or even OK with racism. I did say it comes across as hypocritical, because yes, I do think preaching "no racism" and celebrating his wife for being Arabic then collaborating with a racist is hypocritical. But at the end of the day that's just my opinion and I was also clear all I was doing was voicing my own personal disappointment. I understand your point just fine, but I'm not going to agree with you and nor do I have to.

[Beerjeezus]

1 minute ago, Christian's Inferno! said:

Nobody here knows who anybody else's race is and nobody's telling anybody how to feel about Morrissey's racism

That's exactly what's been happening the entire time, though. Y'all literally argued with @Miyu Yan that she was overreacting when she, a Chinese person voiced her opinion on the Morrissey quote.

[Christian's Inferno!]

2 minutes ago, Joe. said:

This, along with The First of the Gang to Die, is the only Morrissey solo song I've listened to and really enjoyed, so props to Billie for that.

 

It comes to a point where Billie must know man, it's all over his instagram. Im not trying to rehash the conversation or tell others how to feel, but whilst I think the whole argument is very overblown, i don't think there's much of a case for not knowing.

For the record I think Billie has done something similar to me, looked at the comments in the context they were put in, thought about the opportunity this collaboration is and decided that contextualising the comments reduces their weight substantially and gone ahead with the collaboration. Im not saying this is right and I'm not trying to put down those who are offended by Morrissey's comments, but I can certainly see a train of logic that puts Billie in this position, because its probably the same thing I would've done.

Exactly and why this endless argument is pointless. I view Morrissey's comments in one way as someone that isn't affected by them (and Billie is in the same boat) and others that are offended by them see them in another. Whilst I think the context of these comments reduce their harm substantially, I completely accept that a considerable portion of the Green Day fanbase is affected by these comments.

Firstly, the point is that if Billie does know, it's likely he only just found out about Morrissey's comments. The fact is unless he knew when he accepted the collab and recorded his vocals for the collab, Billie has no responsibility for this.

Secondly, if Billie sees comments on his instagram on his comments, he might just think of these comments as trolls

Thirdly, Billie might just know about Morrissey's less controversial "controversial" comments, views that he hears all the time and aren't uncommon opinions. I feel like if he heard some of his more controversial views, then he'd be more likely to say "Oh that's fucked up. I don't want to do this collab". Billie knows this guy for his music

 

 

Also, idk why people are implying that we're trying to change people's opinions. You're perfectly welcome to be disappointed in Billie for this but I'm just explaining why I disagree with you and I don't understand why there's 19 pages about this when the only disagreement here is whether we should be critical/disappointed in Billie for this

[Rumpelstiltskin2000]

10 minutes ago, Joe. said:

I completely accept that a considerable portion of the Green Day fanbase is affected by these comments.

Yeah because Green Day have been sold for years as an all-inclusive band who welcome minorities at their shows hence the t-shirt "No racism, no sexism, no homophobia".

[Christian's Inferno!]

9 minutes ago, Beerjeezus said:

That's exactly what's been happening the entire time, though. Y'all literally argued with @Miyu Yan that she was overreacting when she, a Chinese person voiced her opinion on the Morrissey quote.

I never said she was overreacting, nor did I see anyone else saying that

[Beerjeezus]

4 minutes ago, Christian's Inferno! said:

I never said she was overreacting, nor did I see anyone else saying that

I'm not saying it was you, but it happened.

[Joe.]

11 minutes ago, Christian's Inferno! said:

Firstly, the point is that if Billie does know, it's likely he only just found out about Morrissey's comments. The fact is unless he knew when he accepted the collab and recorded his vocals for the collab, Billie has no responsibility for this.

Secondly, if Billie sees comments on his instagram on his comments, he might just think of these comments as trolls

Thirdly, Billie might just know about Morrissey's less controversial "controversial" comments, views that he hears all the time and aren't uncommon opinions. I feel like if he heard some of his more controversial views, then he'd be more likely to say "Oh that's fucked up. I don't want to do this collab". Billie knows this guy for his music

 

 

Also, idk why people are implying that we're trying to change people's opinions. You're perfectly welcome to be disappointed in Billie for this but I'm just explaining why I disagree with you and I don't understand why there's 19 pages about this when the only disagreement here is whether we should be critical/disappointed in Billie for this

You know I kinda agree with both sides right? Billie clearly knows about the comments, he's not stupid. Imo he's just contextualised them and come to a reasonable conclusion, but theres a clear argument for this being hypocritical. I can see why people would find it to be

11 minutes ago, Rumpelstiltskin2000 said:

Yeah because Green Day have been sold for years as an all-inclusive band who welcome minorities at their shows hence the t-shirt "No racism, no sexism, no homophobia".

Yeah that's a fair point, but I don't think that this really stops being Green Day being an inclusive band

[The Bellie]

42 minutes ago, solongfromthestars said:

I'm so glad people who've never experienced racism have visited this thread to let us all know how to feel. After a lifetime of dealing with racism, now I know it's just a differing opinion I should ignore.

In all seriousness, the criticism of Billie in this thread isn't even that vehement. People are allowed to be disappointed in something you don't find disappointing - especially if you're going to preach about how they should ignore "differing opinions."  

I saw you wrote further but all the replies are a bit fast to follow 

First, I just want to quote this because I think the same:

15 minutes ago, Christian's Inferno! said:

Nobody here knows who anybody else's race is and nobody's telling anybody how to feel about Morrissey's racism

Also, just because someone is not bothered by Billie working with Morrissey doesn't even mean they have never suffered from racism, like you said in the first sentence of what I quoted. Personally, as half Romanian and half Lebanese, I know what it's like to be considered at first regarding your origins, and my parents know it even better than me and we speak quite a bit about it. I've noticed they can be "racist" (at least, what you would call racist, for sure ) in their own ways and it even sometimes pisses me off. But in truth it's perfectly harmless, as I notice when I discuss it more with them instead of thinking they're racist, which they're not. A simple isolated quote, while the person claims not be racist like Morrissey, doesn't mean much.

For my part, I respect how everyone feels, I didn't see anyone telling someone else how to feel. I personally don't think Morrissey is even racist, and I don't care much about what he has said, to tell the truth. I don't want to pretend being offended where I'm not. That's just me. After reading a slight bit about the man, I don't like him, I don't care abut him, but I respect Billie if he has any connection to him and I don't care which. Does it mean I've never been touched by any kind of racism or that I don't care about it? No, it doesn't at all, that's just an assumption you (or anyone) could make. I think we should go a bit slower before thinking to know how people really feel or what they've experienced. even with the same information and I'd go so far as to say the same experience, people react differently and every reaction should be just as respectable and respectful as the others.

It's really a bit sad that we come to seemingly mistrust one another while no one here, at the end of the say, defends racism . I don't think Billie or Adie are hypocritical for the least. I didn't read the comments on Instagram, only on Youtube where Morrissey has posted the song, and people rejoiced themselves for the collab. That's the only reason it was made for. Music, enjoyment. Along with this, Morrissey has always claimed not to be a racist. You can think of me whatever you want but I believe he is sincere while saying that. It doesn't mean I like what he says or does (I don't like the aggressive way he militates for animal rights, for instance) but I don't pretend to judge in place of Billie why the collaboration took place. And I love how Billie speaks against racism and hopes he continues to do so (I'm sure he will).

[Savannah89]

Wherever you go in the world this thing (politics about left or right) is a hot issue right now. World wide. 

Since I'm already aware of threads like this on message boards in my country and I'm always getting high blood pressure then, I will just sit back, read your comments and will keep my fingers still for this thread.

[The Bellie]

38 minutes ago, Beerjeezus said:

That's exactly what's been happening the entire time, though. Y'all literally argued with @Miyu Yan that she was overreacting when she, a Chinese person voiced her opinion on the Morrissey quote.

From I what recall, she also voiced her opinion (perhaps slightly judgmental) on how other people here reacted to the Morrissey quote (and the previous Morrissey quotes). I'm not even offended and hopes she comes back on the forum to enjoy all there is to enjoy, but just in general. I have the feeling that if I'm not fondly bothered by any Morrissey quote that's been brought up, my opinion is less valuable than the opinion of those who are bothered, and it makes me automatically someone who has never suffered from racism. I'm caricaturing a bit, but it's almost that. 

[Joe.]

5 minutes ago, The Bellie said:

It's really a bit sad that we come to seemingly mistrust one another while no one here, at the end of the say, defends racism . 

Don't disagree with you but its racism thats being discussed and people have very strong feelings towards it, especially if they've been racially abused so are of course going to react strongly. The debate isn't whether anyone defends racism, its whether Morrissey is or isn't racist and whether the collaboration is hypocritical for Billie to undertake. In my opinion its no to both, but others see differently. I think this is one to chalk up as something Billie probably should've just left to spare the controversy.

[The Bellie]

Plot twist: Billie is attracted to ugly, blue-eyed, reputed racist dudes and likes to get taught once in a while not to get too vehement on their racist asses. It helps him stay compassionate towards all human beings. Who can do more can do less. Another masochist effect is that it destroys half of his own fanbase who hate racism. On the other side, Morrissey has clearly fallen in love with Billie and the song is an indirect marriage proposal. As he knows it can't be fulfilled, he misspelled Billie's name on the Twitter post as a bitter teasing.

[Beerjeezus]

6 minutes ago, The Bellie said:

From I what recall, she also voiced her opinion (perhaps slightly judgmental) on how other people here reacted to the Morrissey quote (and the previous Morrissey quotes). I'm not even offended and hopes she comes back on the forum to enjoy all there is to enjoy, but just in general. I have the feeling that if I'm not fondly bothered by any Morrissey quote that's been brought up, my opinion is less valuable than the opinion of those who are bothered, and it makes me automatically someone who has never suffered from racism. I'm caricaturing a bit, but it's almost that. 

Personally, I'm not that bothered about Morrissey either - he seems to be an idiot and talks lots of bullshit. However, I don't think he should be excused because he's worked with Billie. I think there was a lot of this sentiment "he can't be that bad if Billie associates with him", but in my opinion it's undeniable that he's far-right and a racist and we shouldn't look past that just because it's convenient for us at the moment.