Billie Joes Eyelids Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 1 minute ago, WhiteTim said: If Clinton had changed her views on the LGBT community long before she announced... I dunno... has she done anything to help them out since losing the election? Or anyone else for that matter? She did change her views on the LGBTQ community long before the election, that’s a fact. And I’m not sure about your point in doing anything specifically for them. She’s done a lot of stuff since the election. I’m not here to defend Hillary Clinton. I know she’s very flawed. But there is no comparison to her and Trump. The country is much worse off with him as president. 4 minutes ago, Christian's Inferno! said: I've never said she's worse than Trump. In fact I've said multiple times in my previous posts that I don't think she's as bad as Trump, just that I think she's also a terrible candidate But the problem is that a lot of people stayed home because they didn’t like her, and as a result we got a sociopathic narcissist for president who is ignorant to boot. So I’d say that was a mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian's Inferno! Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 3 minutes ago, neverdone2000 said: But the problem is that a lot of people stayed home because they didn’t like her, and as a result we got a sociopathic narcissist for president who is ignorant to boot. So I’d say that was a mistake. You don't know that the people who stayed at home would've even voted for her if they did choose to vote. They obviously stayed at home for a reason, and that reason obviously was because they didn't have a preference over either candidate, at least not enough of a preference to justify making the effort to vote. Even if they did vote for Hillary, idk if that would've been enough to make her win Nobody really WANTED to vote for her, most of the people that voted for her voted to stop Trump. The difference is Trump's supporters were more eager to vote than Hillary's voters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteTim Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 This election was first I didn’t vote cause I didn’t want either of them if I had voted for Johnson or a lesser party it’d been thrown away basically cause America is too closed minded to look outside of the Republican and Democratic parties Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billie Joes Eyelids Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 1 minute ago, Christian's Inferno! said: You don't know that the people who stayed at home would've even voted for her if they did choose to vote. They obviously stayed at home for a reason, and that reason obviously was because they didn't have a preference over either candidate, at least not enough of a preference to justify making the effort to vote. Even if they did vote for Hillary, idk if that would've been enough to make her win Nobody really WANTED to vote for her, most of the people that voted for her voted to stop Trump. The difference is Trump's supporters were more eager to vote than Hillary's voters The truth is that Republicans are much better at getting out and voting than Democrats are, and older people are much better at it than younger people are. If the millennial/Gen Z generations got out and voted their interests, there would never be a person like Trump in office. And part of the reason that they don’t vote is because they demonize candidates of their own party who may only meet 60 or 70 percent of their criteria rather than 100 percent. 5 minutes ago, WhiteTim said: This election was first I didn’t vote cause I didn’t want either of them if I had voted for Johnson or a lesser party it’d been thrown away basically cause America is too closed minded to look outside of the Republican and Democratic parties I agree that we need more parties and more alternatives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermione Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 16 hours ago, Libertine Angel said: It doesn't even matter if he knew Morrissey's a racist before, the issue now is that efforts have been made to tell him and he's not responded. It doesn't take much to drop a line on social media saying "didn't know the guy was a shit, I do now and condemn his views" but the fact that he hasn't suggests to me that it doesn't really bother him, and for a person who tries to present themselves as caring about causes like this it's really not a good look to ignore collaborators' endorsement of racism. This has already been said but an article saying he declined to comment doesn't mean someone went to him going "Billie Billie Morrissey's a racist please listen!" and he turned around and ignored them. It could be as far removed from that as his publicist being asked "does Billie want to do an interview with the Guardian about the collab" and them saying no because he's busy in the studio or having time off and not doing press at the moment. It doesn't mean he was told or asked about Morrissey's views, it means nothing. None of us know how much he knows about him. Assuming an American knows all about an ageing UK musician's quotes on UK politics that have almost certainly not be covered by the news there and going off judging him for "ignoring racism" that he might not even be aware of (because it comes in the form of relatively obscure quotes and isn't something he's universally known for) is a bit of a stretch. When two middle aged musicians meet at an event and they have a chat and one invites the other to pop to the studio and record a cover song with them for their new collab album, their first thought isn't "I wonder if he's ever said anything racist, I'll get online and check". It just isn't. You can't judge someone for not doing that, more info than we have is needed to judge his decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bellie Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 I think it's a bit sad if we decide not to have expectations towards Billie @Beerjeezus, it's good that we do, it means that we have a high opinion of Billie and that we're used to him acting in ways we admire, and it's normal to expect it going on, because these are things that make us proud of him and proud to be his fans. Some huge bands or artists don't have much to offer to people on the moral side, there's practically only the music (which can be enough though! just like when Billie fanboys on other bands, for their music and legacy essentially, for what I see. And it doesn't have to be rational all the time.) With Billie we're luckier, what we can see that he says and does offers a lot to be proud of on other grounds than music. That doesn't mean everything should appear as clear to us as when he states a precise point in interview, with his own words. And even then ther are always misunderstandings. For instance, when Billie said, around Trump's election, that he relates to Trump voters as white, uneducated people he could've also been, that was very honest and down to earth, in a rare way especially for celebs to whom it's easy to say just "fuck Trump" without anything needed to ad, and without speaking of themselves. How can we say that his speech is empty when he manages, even with his hate for Trump, to identify to Trump voters? Saying that, he exposes himself, at the risk of being criticized. People on internet misinterpreted "white, uneducated people" as an insult, while he was just recognizing that background to be his, and it leads him to compassion towards these people. He clearly makes a lot of effort to educate himself and grasp what's going on, trying to appeal people on their common shares as human beings. He speaks of acceptance towards every kind of voters and said that ultimately your political belonging doesn't matter. So we could say he acts in conformity to his speech in that way, he makes a song with an artist with different (even lower) views than his. Or we could say he doesn't act in conformity to his speech because Morrissey could appear as a racist while Billie condemned racism unequivocally several times. Along all this, he made mistakes such as wanting comment places to hold civil discussions and ended up reacting, to random commentators, as badly as what he could have denounced about such comment places (like saying to someone "go fuck yourself"). Yet, I can't say that he has been hypocritical in one single word we have ever gotten of him. But the fact he is so engaged in everything he does, not renouncing to state his opinions and react emotionally good or bad, exposes him to show his flaws. Not that I find the Morrissey collab to be a flaw, but the more you say, the more you expose yourself. The simple fact we can find contradictions in what he does (I include saying in doing) is proof that he speaks real, because no one is all black or white (you get it). All this to say, somewhere the line of what's acceptable must be drawn but not only is it up to each person to draw their line, moreover I don't think we can grasp that line so easily for ourselves (ex. Billie coming to do what he condemned on social media), let alone for someone else. I don't think Billie should be supposed to explain to us where that line is to him, and even if he did it would never be perfectly accurate, because there's much more to take into account than quotes conveyed by media (I'm speaking of Morrissey here) to consider someone... I don't even see the point on saying someone is leftist, centrist, alt-right, fascist to try to define a person. The only person we know a bit for who he really is in this affair is Billie, from everything he shows us (and he shows a lot of himself through everything he shares), and from what he himself does and not Morrissey or anyone else does, he is everything but a racist or fascist or supportive of that. Also, I don't agree that having a relation to someone possibly leaning on some form of racism makes him supportive of racism. I wouldn't like Billie to make everyone go through a moral test before having anything to do with them. I already said this but since arguments are repeated multiple times in this thread... Chances are he knows Morrissey better than us, with aspects that we don't hear in media, or simply he chooses to do this for the musical interest, and I respect that, it's not up to me to say where he should put music on a scale of importance. My own impression, despite my low opinion of his quotes, is that Morrissey wants to drift away from moral pureness expected nowadays rather than being a racist. With what I said about Billie, I think I can leave it him to judge for himself who is worth hanging or working with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerjeezus Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 @The Bellie I thought about it some more last night and got to a similar point as you - I have to respect that he's able to sympathize with people he disagrees with or imagine himself in their situation. That's quite insightful of him and a lot of people aren't capable of that. On another hand, I don't know...I'm not sure what he'd have to do to disappoint me at this point. I don't expect anything from him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WorryRock02 Posted April 8, 2019 Share Posted April 8, 2019 Here you go: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacejunkie punk Posted April 8, 2019 Share Posted April 8, 2019 Meh. According to the credits he just does backing vocals, doesn’t even play guitar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermione Posted April 8, 2019 Share Posted April 8, 2019 Lmao called it . He might as well not have bothered doing it, could've saved us 17 pages of arguing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean Posted April 8, 2019 Share Posted April 8, 2019 Is this "Bill" he wants to marry supposed to be Billie? lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeJennsitized Posted April 8, 2019 Share Posted April 8, 2019 21 minutes ago, Hermione said: Lmao called it . He might as well not have bothered doing it, could've saved us 17 pages of arguing. It was never about the extent of his involvement - and because his actual contribution is so small, it's even more baffling as to why he agreed to do it. I see from the artwork they're still gonna use his name as a selling point though, lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermione Posted April 8, 2019 Share Posted April 8, 2019 22 minutes ago, DeJennsitized said: It was never about the extent of his involvement - and because his actual contribution is so small, it's even more baffling as to why he agreed to do it. I see from the artwork they're still gonna use his name as a selling point though, lol Oh I know, literally just saying if he hadn't bothered it would've been no loss to music and we wouldn't have had anything to argue about I don't think it makes it any more baffling though, just makes it seem even more likely that it was just another quick random collaboration he said why not to rather then something he thought he had a reason to consider deeply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe. Posted April 8, 2019 Share Posted April 8, 2019 Classic Moz, I think the two accompany each other quite well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerjeezus Posted April 8, 2019 Share Posted April 8, 2019 So basically it's a minor contribution that just serves to generate questionable attention for the album lol. Not sure how it's worth associating with a racist far right supporter - he must pay well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian's Inferno! Posted April 8, 2019 Share Posted April 8, 2019 He does actually contribute to the song. His backing vocals sound really good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe. Posted April 8, 2019 Share Posted April 8, 2019 6 minutes ago, Christian's Inferno! said: He does actually contribute to the song. His backing vocals sound really good Yeah they add an extra element to the song Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rumpelstiltskin2000 Posted April 8, 2019 Share Posted April 8, 2019 Billie Joel Armstrong Collaborate with a racist and get your name spelt wrong! Doesn't even mention Lydia Night either! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerjeezus Posted April 8, 2019 Share Posted April 8, 2019 fuck you, billy joel! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacejunkie punk Posted April 8, 2019 Share Posted April 8, 2019 Oh for heaven’s sake did he really do that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian's Inferno! Posted April 8, 2019 Share Posted April 8, 2019 IT LITERALLY SAYS 'BILLIE JOE ARMSTRONG' ON THE PICTURE, ALL HE HAD TO DO WAS COPY THAT Out of everything he's said, this is the most offensive. (I'm kidding of course ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billie Joes Eyelids Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 🤣🤣🤣I can’t believe he did the Billie Joel thing!! Also I did not know that Morrissey had such a nice voice. I’m only accustomed to hearing it droning and miserable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insomniac1984 Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 "Do you have the time to listen Piano man...." xD Going back to the topic, the song is OK. Not so good, not so bad. I liked Billie vocals on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenDayBootlegs2010 Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 Billie Joel Armstrong Nike Dirnt Tree Cough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesus of Seneca Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 Well that was good, I liked it, I love all three artists,..... but that was, ahhh-- not what I was expecting, lol 😂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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