Billie Joe Armstrong on new Morrissey Album

[WhiteTim]

Most likely Billie doesn’t know 

but then why should we judge Billie on who he knows or works with all of you who are so pro women rights who are attacking Billie didn’t say shit about Billie being friends with Sam McBride covered his song and put it on TWO GD projects so Sam could get royalties while serving his prison sentence for killing his girlfriend cause he thought the girlfriend was helping a rival drug dealer but NOW it’s a issue cause he did a song with a douchebag who says douche things? Huh I guess y’all don’t mind Billie being friends with men who murder women and helping them get paid thousands of dollars that’s ok but let someone say douchey shit to provoke people to save the animals and watch out “oh my god billie is such a hypocrite” 🙄 

[DeJennsitized]

6 minutes ago, Christian's Inferno! said:

Declining a music collab with someone who has different views isn't taking action against racism. That wouldn't make him seem any less "all talk / no action"

Deciding not to contribute to the success of a bigot is a small thing he could have done, but a thing nonetheless. Like when white people turn down roles meant for people of colour. It’s using your position of privilege to take a stand and say ‘this is not okay.’

[Billie Joes Eyelids]

6 minutes ago, DeJennsitized said:

Deciding not to contribute to the success of a bigot is a small thing he could have done, but a thing nonetheless. Like when white people turn down roles meant for people of colour. It’s using your position of privilege to take a stand and say ‘this is not okay.’

But it really isn’t a big thing in the scheme of things. And my point is that in this board for some people it is a very big thing, which is scary to me. What matters right now is the big picture if we’re going to get past this Trump/Brexit/nationalistic resurgence nightmare. If you focus on every little thing that people who are obviously allies have done, then we’re doomed. We can not afford to be that myopic when the stakes are so high. We’ve got to accept imperfect allies and progressives to win this. 

[Beerjeezus]

1 hour ago, neverdone2000 said:

Are we talking about the same Billie? A centrist? I strongly disagree. He was a fervent Bernie supporter during the 2016 election. He has never demonstrated anything but progressive viewpoints, and he’s obviously passed those to his sons.

I agree he's more left-leaning but closer to the center. He supported Bernie and then Clinton (even more avidly). He has liberal opinions but it's not like he's a pinnacle of leftism - he supports stuff like public healthcare but for example was quite careful about some aspects of Occupy, so probably a rather moderate social democrat, maybe? I don't mean that as criticism, I just try to not expect too much from him.

Tbh it's hard to say where he really stands. He declares to be against racism but also says he's friends with Trump supporters and gets along with them nicely because he understands their points too, then he goes on an internet rampage when someone slightly disagrees with him. So idk, it's hard to put him somewhere on a political spectrum/tell how he feels about stuff because he can go from polite debating of far right opinions to calling someone names over nothing.

I believe he means well but it seems he sometimes doesn't think stuff through all that deeply/is a bit dumb lol

[Christian's Inferno!]

7 minutes ago, Beerjeezus said:

I agree he's more left-leaning but closer to the center. He supported Bernie and then Clinton (even more avidly). He has liberal opinions but it's not like he's a pinnacle of leftism - he supports stuff like public healthcare but for example was quite careful about some aspects of Occupy, so probably a rather moderate social democrat, maybe? I don't mean that as criticism, I just try to not expect too much from him.

Tbh it's hard to say where he really stands. He declares to be against racism but also says he's friends with Trump supporters and gets along with them nicely because he understands their points too, then he goes on an internet rampage when someone slightly disagrees with him. So idk, it's hard to put him somewhere on a political spectrum/tell how he feels about stuff because he can go from polite debating of far right opinions to calling someone names over nothing.

I believe he means well but it seems he sometimes doesn't think stuff through all that deeply/is a bit dumb lol

Billie has actually been rather sympathetic towards Trump supporters. He doesn't think being a Trump supporter or voter inherently makes you a bad person, he thinks more that Trump has manipulated them. His anger is directed towards Trump. I think this explains why he wouldn't be that bothered working with someone like Morrissey, despite him holding vastly different views

I think his "rampage" was him angry at Trump and unjustly directing his anger at people commenting. I was critical of him doing that and I'd say he likely regrets doing that

[Beerjeezus]

21 minutes ago, Christian's Inferno! said:

Billie has actually been rather sympathetic towards Trump supporters. He doesn't think being a Trump supporter or voter inherently makes you a bad person, he thinks more that Trump has manipulated them. His anger is directed towards Trump. I think this explains why he wouldn't be that bothered working with someone like Morrissey, despite him holding vastly different views

I think his "rampage" was him angry at Trump and unjustly directing his anger at people commenting. I was critical of him doing that and I'd say he likely regrets doing that

Yes, that makes sense. It's what I meant when I said it's hard to tell what he's really thinking - this separating people from their views may be a sign of a lot of compassion but also of not caring.

I'm not a fan of this "Trump supporters/racists/far right don't know what their doing," they do.

[Christian's Inferno!]

8 minutes ago, Beerjeezus said:

I'm not a fan of this "Trump supporters/racists/far right don't know what their doing," they do.

I think some of these people know what they're doing, some don't. But I think it's useful to try to understand their viewpoints and why they think how they do rather than disregarding their opinions as racist. Obviously, some of them will just give the same opinions we've heard before like "Mexicans are rapists", "All muslims are terrorists" etc. but a lot of them probably voted for Trump over Hillary because they felt Trump was more likely to consider them and act on their behalf

It would actually be beneficial for democrats to understand these people's views and maybe they'll actually win the next election. I think a lot of liberals and democrats don't understand why they lost the election and instead of trying to figure out why, just label every Trump supporter as racists and that their opinions don't matter

[Beerjeezus]

9 minutes ago, Christian's Inferno! said:

I think some of these people know what they're doing, some don't. But I think it's useful to try to understand their viewpoints and why they think how they do rather than disregarding their opinions as racist. Obviously, some of them will just give the same opinions we've heard before like "Mexicans are rapists", "All muslims are terrorists" etc. but a lot of them probably voted for Trump over Hillary because they felt Trump was more likely to consider them and act on their behalf

It would actually be beneficial for democrats to understand these people's views and maybe they'll actually win the next election. I think a lot of liberals and democrats don't understand why they lost the election and instead of trying to figure out why, just label every Trump supporter as racists and that their opinions don't matter

Yes, it's true that democrats need to try to understand what draws people to Trump, but what I don't understand is what are we supposed to do with the racists and their opinions. It's not possible to give them what they want.

[Christian's Inferno!]

1 minute ago, Beerjeezus said:

Yes, it's true that democrats need to try to understand what draws people to Trump, but what I don't understand is what are we supposed to do with the racists and their opinions.

Well some people are just racist and there minds won't be changed. But making sure future generations don't hold these views is important.

Some people's opinions can be changed though and it's important that they're educated and that their opinions are understood

[Billie Joes Eyelids]

Not all Trump supporters understood what they were voting for, and they’re not all racist. Billie was absolutely correct about that. There was a large swath of voters that felt left behind by the American dream and with the decline of manufacturing, coal mining, etc. You can’t paint them all with the same brush. Trump is a con man and he saw an opportunity to con people who were relatively uneducated, uninformed, and easily conned. Many of them regret their vote. But the working class is not a slam dunk for Democrats if they see nothing but a bunch of people accusing others in their own party of not being woke enough. That’s a bridge too far for not only them but a lot of Americans. 

[DookieLukie]

There are two important points about human behavior we should always keep in mind when discussing politics:

1.) Every action has a reason

2). Everyone wants to be successful

Aside from individuals who are psychopaths and sociopaths, we have to realize that whatever decisions individuals make, even if they seem dumb, are made for what that individual considers a good reason. 

[WhiteTim]

Trump won boils down to over the simple fact that Clinton was the other candidate 

[Billie Joes Eyelids]

8 minutes ago, WhiteTim said:

Trump won boils down to over the simple fact that Clinton was the other candidate 

It’s not that simple. There are a lot of factors that entered into him winning. That was just one. Remember, Clinton was accused of a lot of things that have not proven to be true. Also, her email “scandal” is very small potatoes compared to what is going on now. She was very successfully smeared by people who were very taken aback by a strong woman. 

[Christian's Inferno!]

10 minutes ago, neverdone2000 said:

It’s not that simple. There are a lot of factors that entered into him winning. That was just one. Remember, Clinton was accused of a lot of things that have not proven to be true. Also, her email “scandal” is very small potatoes compared to what is going on now. She was very successfully smeared by people who were very taken aback by a strong woman. 

Clinton refused to take any responsibility for her loss. She blamed literally everything she could. Truth is she was a terrible candidate and she thought her victory was guaranteed because Trump was her opponent

[Billie Joes Eyelids]

7 minutes ago, Christian's Inferno! said:

Clinton refused to take any responsibility for her loss. She blamed literally everything she could. Truth is she was a terrible candidate and she thought her victory was guaranteed because Trump was her opponent

In what way was she a terrible candidate?

[WhiteTim]

17 minutes ago, neverdone2000 said:

It’s not that simple. There are a lot of factors that entered into him winning. That was just one. Remember, Clinton was accused of a lot of things that have not proven to be true. Also, her email “scandal” is very small potatoes compared to what is going on now. She was very successfully smeared by people who were very taken aback by a strong woman. 

It’s proven that she is racist herself you really should leave the thread attacking Morrissey for racism but defending a woman who has actually set policies against minorities I could care less about the email scandal hell Bush and Rove deleted TONS more than Clinton ever did...  

also she attacks women who her husband has raped or sexually assaulted but tell me again how Cheeto is the evil sexist again? 

 

(I’m not a fan of Trump or Clinton...)

[Billie Joes Eyelids]

7 minutes ago, WhiteTim said:

It’s proven that she is racist herself you really should leave the thread attacking Morrissey for racism but defending a woman who has actually set policies against minorities I could care less about the email scandal hell Bush and Rove deleted TONS more than Clinton ever did...  

also she attacks women who her husband has raped or sexually assaulted but tell me again how Cheeto is the evil sexist again? 

 

(I’m not a fan of Trump or Clinton...)

What policies against minorities? I’m not a huge fan of Clinton but I think there is a shitload of misinformation about her that has been spread by the right. Also I agree that she should have taken more responsibility for her loss. She definitely made mistakes. But I don’t think she was a terrible candidate.

[Christian's Inferno!]

Clinton changes her mind on anything if she thinks it will be positive for her, she didn't represent change (whereas Trump did), she desperately tried and failed to appeal to young people, she basically based her entire campaign on her being a woman, she didn't take any responsibility for her loss

Just a few reasons why she was terrible. Not saying she's as bad as Trump but she was fucking awful. And btw, I think women are equally capable to be president but Hillary relied way too much on the woman card. She even said her being a woman was one of her merits which I feel is ridiculous. That's not a merit, and if you consider that to be one of your merits, you're an idiot

[WhiteTim]

7 minutes ago, neverdone2000 said:

What policies against minorities? I’m not a huge fan of Clinton but I think there is a shitload of misinformation about her that has been spread by the right. Also I agree that she should have taken more responsibility for her loss. She definitely made mistakes. But I don’t think she was a terrible candidate.

She played a HUGE part of the policies that her husband started that has led to many minorities to be locked up where as white counterparts aren’t her speech for it is widely known for her super predators comment... 

she was for three decades also very very anti LGBT until very conveniently she decided to run for President then it was “oh yeah gays are people it turns out I love y’all vote for me!” (Not a direct quote) 

would we be as bad off under her as we are with Trump? I don’t know but she’s not the answer I would love a woman president I think perhaps a woman president could do some real changes but Clinton isn’t the answer 

[Billie Joes Eyelids]

2 minutes ago, WhiteTim said:

She played a HUGE part of the policies that her husband started that has led to many minorities to be locked up where as white counterparts aren’t her speech for it is widely known for her super predators comment... 

she was for three decades also very very anti LGBT until very conveniently she decided to run for President then it was “oh yeah gays are people it turns out I love y’all vote for me!” (Not a direct quote) 

would we be as bad off under her as we are with Trump? I don’t know but she’s not the answer I would love a woman president I think perhaps a woman president could do some real changes but Clinton isn’t the answer 

There are many things that both Clinton & Biden did and said that we’re a product of their time and that they now regret. At least they’re willing to evolve and change their positions. I don’t think they should be vilified. I think it’s a false equivalence comparing them to Trump. But I understand why people didn’t like her. I really don’t want an elderly person to get the nomination. Whether it’s a man or woman, I just hope it’s someone younger.

[Christian's Inferno!]

Just now, neverdone2000 said:

There are many things that both Clinton & Biden did and said that we’re a product of their time and that they now regret. At least they’re willing to evolve and change their positions. I don’t think they should be vilified. I think it’s a false equivalence comparing them to Trump. But I understand why people didn’t like her. I really don’t want an elderly person to get the nomination. Whether it’s a man or woman, I just hope it’s someone younger.

There's a difference between evolving/changing your mind on issues, and changing your views to get support and votes which I think Clinton did

[Billie Joes Eyelids]

2 minutes ago, Christian's Inferno! said:

There's a difference between evolving/changing your mind on issues, and changing your views to get support and votes which I think Clinton did

Even so, she would have never separated families, passed policies that oppress the LGBTQ community, deregulated the EPA to a dangerous level, passed tax bills favoring the richest of the rich, denied climate change and passed bills that will speed it up, lied 20 times a day, etc etc. There is no comparison to her presidency to the Trump presidency as far as damage to the country. And that is kind of my point from the beginning of this topic. Sometimes we have to pick the better of two evils to avoid a disaster, and sometimes we have to accept that people who have the same general beliefs that we do are far from perfect. 

[WhiteTim]

7 minutes ago, neverdone2000 said:

There are many things that both Clinton & Biden did and said that we’re a product of their time and that they now regret. At least they’re willing to evolve and change their positions. I don’t think they should be vilified. I think it’s a false equivalence comparing them to Trump. But I understand why people didn’t like her. I really don’t want an elderly person to get the nomination. Whether it’s a man or woman, I just hope it’s someone younger.

If Clinton had changed her views on the LGBT community long before she announced... I dunno...  has she done anything to help them out since losing the election? Or anyone else for that matter? 

[Christian's Inferno!]

1 minute ago, neverdone2000 said:

Even so, she would have never separated families, passed policies that oppress the LGBTQ community, deregulated the EPA to a dangerous level, passed tax bills favoring the richest of the rich, denied climate change and passed bills that will speed it up, lied 20 times a day, etc etc. There is no comparison to her presidency to the Trump presidency as far as damage to the country. And that is kind of my point from the beginning of this topic. Sometimes we have to pick the better of two evils to avoid a disaster, and sometimes we have to accept that people who have the same general beliefs that we do are far from perfect. 

I've never said she's worse than Trump. In fact I've said multiple times in my previous posts that I don't think she's as bad as Trump, just that I think she's also a terrible candidate

[WhiteTim]

1 minute ago, neverdone2000 said:

Even so, she would have never separated families, passed policies that oppress the LGBTQ community, deregulated the EPA to a dangerous level, passed tax bills favoring the richest of the rich, denied climate change and passed bills that will speed it up, lied 20 times a day, etc etc. There is no comparison to her presidency to the Trump presidency as far as damage to the country. And that is kind of my point from the beginning of this topic. Sometimes we have to pick the better of two evils to avoid a disaster, and sometimes we have to accept that people who have the same general beliefs that we do are far from perfect. 

Lol yeah she would’ve (but all presidents do so can’t single her or Trump out on that one) 

As for not passing laws to discriminate the LGBT community who knows Trump said he wouldn’t and he has we don’t know Clinton’s real viewpoint is it the 30 plus years of hating them or the year campaigns?