Billie Joe Armstrong on new Morrissey Album

[Beerjeezus]

18 minutes ago, neverdone2000 said:

https://www.politicususa.com/2019/04/06/barack-obama-circular-firing-squad-hurting-movement.html/amp?__twitter_impression=true

Having differences with someone and still getting along is of course valid but a line has to be drawn somewhere. 

[Billie Joes Eyelids]

1 minute ago, Beerjeezus said:

Having differences with someone and still getting along is of course valid but a line has to be drawn somewhere. 

And knowing that we have a criminal president who can very likely damage this country beyond repair if he gets another 4 years, I see lines being drawn at some really stupid shit that will no one will be thinking about when that time comes. 

[maryjanewhatsername]

24 minutes ago, neverdone2000 said:

https://www.politicususa.com/2019/04/06/barack-obama-circular-firing-squad-hurting-movement.html/amp?__twitter_impression=true

This article feels biased toward right wing/conservative views. Obama brings up a valid point for the progressive movement, but I feel as though this is weak evidence to show that Billie should be working with a fucking racist. 

[Beerjeezus]

12 minutes ago, neverdone2000 said:

And knowing that we have a criminal president who can very likely damage this country beyond repair if he gets another 4 years, I see lines being drawn at some really stupid shit that will no one will be thinking about when that time comes. 

Or maybe the way to get rid of him is to draw the line and not cross it. Clinton was pretty much a candidate to vote against Trump despite whatever reservations one can have against her and it didn't work.

[DeJennsitized]

My line is somewhere above fraternising with racists and trump supporters, and somewhere below being friends with someone who has pineapple on pizza 

[Billie Joes Eyelids]

5 minutes ago, maryjanewhatsername said:

This article feels biased toward right wing/conservative views. Obama brings up a valid point for the progressive movement, but I feel as though this is weak evidence to show that Billie should be working with a fucking racist. 

Right. This article was from a progressive source, so you just made my point. Everything that isn’t 100% in line with what you believe crosses over to right wing. It’s gotten ridiculous and out of control. @Hermione has made the point over and over that we don’t know exactly what this project is as far as Billie’s involvement, that there are many factors IN SOME PEOPLE’s VIEW in this situation. But no, we have to 100% agree with your viewpoint and admonish Billie for this or we are in fact part of the problem. That’s complete bullshit. It’s gotten to the point that we attack our own allies more than we attack the real enemy. This is not going to work people. 

10 minutes ago, Beerjeezus said:

Or maybe the way to get rid of him is to draw the line and not cross it. Clinton was pretty a candidate to vote against Trump despite whatever reservations one can have against her and it didn't work.

If we do that, we lose. That’s just facts. 

[Beerjeezus]

3 minutes ago, neverdone2000 said:

If we do that, we lose. That’s just facts. 

When we did the opposite we lost too so I'm afraid there's another 4 years of quality tweeting ahead of us.

[Billie Joes Eyelids]

6 minutes ago, Beerjeezus said:

When we did the opposite we lost too so I'm afraid there's another 4 years of quality tweeting ahead of us.

Hillary lost because people thought Trump had no chance and didn’t bother to get off their asses to vote, or because they were mad about Bernie. Sad, but true. 

[Beerjeezus]

15 minutes ago, neverdone2000 said:

Hillary lost because people thought Trump had no chance and didn’t bother to get off their asses to vote, or because they were mad about Bernie. Sad, but true. 

Well, yeah. I agree not believing Trump could win was a factor too and "vote for someone you don't want so that someone you don't want even more doesn't win" didn't help to activize voters either.

However, I don't think being more casual about racism is going to help, I don't know, how is the fact that I'll stop saying that I think Morrissey is an ass and that I'm not too excited about Billie working with him going to defeat the far right? The problem won't disappear when we pretend it doesn't exist.

[Billie Joes Eyelids]

5 minutes ago, Beerjeezus said:

Well, yeah. I agree not believing Trump could win was a factor too and "vote for someone you don't want so that someone you don't want even more doesn't win" didn't help to activize voters either.

However, I don't think being more casual about racism is going to help, I don't know, how is the fact that I'll stop saying that I think Morrissey is an ass and that I'm not too excited about Billie working with him going to defeat the far right? The problem won't disappear when we pretend it doesn't exist.

I never said pointing it out is the problem. The problem is when people start pointing out that it’s not completely black and white (when most things aren’t), the purists attack as if that person is fundamentally flawed for not 100% agreeing with them/reacting the way the want them to react. And then pretty much saying it’s enough for them to be done with those people. THAT’S the problem. It’s a lack of tolerance for nuanced discussion in favor of a black and white viewpoint. This will not serve us well, and it is going to fatigue people to the point of pulling away. 

[Christian's Inferno!]

Wanna point out that Hillary lost because of Hillary. I'm not gonna say she's as bad as Trump but she's a fucking terrible candidate

[Beerjeezus]

4 minutes ago, neverdone2000 said:

I never said pointing it out is the problem. The problem is when people start pointing out that it’s not completely black and white (when most things aren’t), the purists attack as if that person is fundamentally flawed for not 100% agreeing with them/reacting the way the want them to react. And then pretty much saying it’s enough for them to be done with those people. THAT’S the problem. It’s a lack of tolerance for nuanced discussion in favor of a black and white viewpoint. This will not serve us well, and it is going to fatigue people to the point of pulling away. 

I don't disagree with you in theory, but I don't see this situation as a good example of this. I don't know, this just doesn't seem to be a not black and white situation. He either is a racist or he isn't and all evidence points to the fact that he is, so it seems valid to take that as a fact rather than to try to come up with excuses for him.

[Billie Joes Eyelids]

50 minutes ago, Christian's Inferno! said:

Wanna point out that Hillary lost because of Hillary. I'm not gonna say she's as bad as Trump but she's a fucking terrible candidate

I agree, but she would have been about 1000X better than Trump. If people on the left can’t hold their nose and vote for a candidate they don’t love and Trump is the result, doesn’t that kind of make my point? How much of Hillary’s platform did you disagree with?

42 minutes ago, Beerjeezus said:

I don't disagree with you in theory, but I don't see this situation as a good example of this. I don't know, this just doesn't seem to be a not black and white situation. He either is a racist or he isn't and all evidence points to the fact that he is, so it seems valid to take that as a fact rather than to try to come up with excuses for him.

If this isn’t a good example, than I don’t know what is. If you read through this thread, you can very clearly read all of the ways that it is not black and white and you’re choosing to discard those.

[Libertine Angel]

6 minutes ago, neverdone2000 said:

If this isn’t a good example, than I don’t know what is. If you read through this thread, you can very clearly read all of the ways that it is not black and white and you’re choosing to discard those.

You know what's black and white? How Morrissey has gone on record saying he likes Nigel Farage, a man who is infamous for being a far-right racist. Other comments aside, expressing support for someone like that makes you at the very least a supporter of racists. If you work with a person who openly supports racists, you're saying you're OK with your name being listed alongside theirs, that support of racism is tolerable to you. And now that the NME's actually covered this and said Billie chose not to comment the whole "maybe he didn't know" argument doesn't hold much water anymore because efforts have clearly been made to bring it up with him, and I don't see how any conclusion can be drawn other than that he's genuinely not bothered by working with a supporter of the racist far-right.

[Beerjeezus]

15 minutes ago, neverdone2000 said:

If this isn’t a good example, than I don’t know what is. If you read through this thread, you can very clearly read all of the ways that it is not black and white and you’re choosing to discard those.

I'm not discarding anything, I realy just don't see how this isn't a simple case or a man being an ass. Explanations like "he's only racist because he's passionate about his cause" don't justify his behavior in any way, in my opinion.

[Christian's Inferno!]

1 minute ago, Libertine Angel said:

And now that the NME's actually covered this and said Billie chose not to comment the whole "maybe he didn't know" argument doesn't hold much water anymore because efforts have clearly been made to bring it up with him, and I don't see how any conclusion can be drawn other than that he's genuinely not bothered by working with a supporter of the racist far-right.

How does the argument not hold much water anymore? Firstly, the article said he wasn't available to comment on it, not that he refused to comment. Secondly, that doesn't mean he was aware of Morrissey's views before the collab. And thirdly, maybe he just didn't want to talk about it because he didn't feel there was a reason to comment. Billie doesn't owe us an explanation. You're still making a lot of assumptions

[Billie Joes Eyelids]

10 minutes ago, Beerjeezus said:

I'm not discarding anything, I realy just don't see how this isn't a simple case or a man being an ass. Explanatios like "he's only racist because he's passionate about his cause" don't justify his behavior in any way, in my opinion.

Yes Morrissey is an ass. His statements overall are very inconsistent, as is his lifestyle. I happen to think that all signs point to his not being stable mentally and being very impulsive. I don’t like him as a person. Do I think less of Billie for doing a very possibly minor part in a song with him? Absolutely not. I think that’s silly. Billie is a very left-leaning progressive ally and that changes nothing. 

[Libertine Angel]

6 minutes ago, Christian's Inferno! said:

How does the argument not hold much water anymore? Firstly, the article said he wasn't available to comment on it, not that he refused to comment. Secondly, that doesn't mean he was aware of Morrissey's views before the collab. And thirdly, maybe he just didn't want to talk about it because he didn't feel there was a reason to comment. Billie doesn't owe us an explanation. You're still making a lot of assumptions

It doesn't even matter if he knew Morrissey's a racist before, the issue now is that efforts have been made to tell him and he's not responded. It doesn't take much to drop a line on social media saying "didn't know the guy was a shit, I do now and condemn his views" but the fact that he hasn't suggests to me that it doesn't really bother him, and for a person who tries to present themselves as caring about causes like this it's really not a good look to ignore collaborators' endorsement of racism.

[Billie Joes Eyelids]

5 minutes ago, Libertine Angel said:

It doesn't even matter if he knew Morrissey's a racist before, the issue now is that efforts have been made to tell him and he's not responded. It doesn't take much to drop a line on social media saying "didn't know the guy was a shit, I do now and condemn his views" but the fact that he hasn't suggests to me that it doesn't really bother him, and for a person who tries to present themselves as caring about causes like this it's really not a good look to ignore collaborators' endorsement of racism.

It is truly irrational, after all of his posts, rants, songs, statements, and causes to conclude that Billie doesn’t care about racism based on his doing a few lines in a Morrissey song. I mean really? This is just...I guess you also help make my point. Also, this kind of thinking is what causes movements with good intentions to fail. 

[Christian's Inferno!]

2 minutes ago, Libertine Angel said:

It doesn't even matter if he knew Morrissey's a racist before, the issue now is that efforts have been made to tell him and he's not responded. It doesn't take much to drop a line on social media saying "didn't know the guy was a shit, I do now and condemn his views" but the fact that he hasn't suggests to me that it doesn't really bother him, and for a person who tries to present themselves as caring about causes like this it's really not a good look to ignore collaborators' endorsement of racism.

Why should it bother him though? He doesn't support those views. Why should he have to explain himself? He just collabed with someone who's music he appreciated.

You guys are like "It bothers me that Billie collabed with Morrissey so it should bother Billie"

[Libertine Angel]

Just now, neverdone2000 said:

It is truly irrational, after all of his posts, rants, songs, statements, and causes to conclude that Billie doesn’t care about racism based on his doing a few lines in a Morrissey song. I mean really? This is just...I guess you also help make my point. 

 

Just now, Christian's Inferno! said:

Why should it bother him though? He doesn't support those views. Why should he have to explain himself? He just collabed with someone who's music he appreciated.

You guys are like "It bothers me that Billie collabed with Morrissey so it should bother Billie"

If a person works with a known racist that means they're OK helping a racist's career, sharing credit on work with a racist, generally, y'know, working alongside a known racist. A person who cares about opposing racists shouldn't be OK with all that, and that Billie hasn't said a single word about it tells me that it truly doesn't bother him to work with a racist, that he is comfortable with having racists in his work life.

[Beerjeezus]

24 minutes ago, neverdone2000 said:

Yes Morrissey is an ass. His statements overall are very inconsistent, as is his lifestyle. I happen to think that all signs point to his not being stable mentally and being very impulsive. I don’t like him as a person. Do I think less of Billie for doing a very possibly minor part in a song with him? Absolutely not. I think that’s silly. Billie is a very left-leaning progressive ally and that changes nothing. 

Yes, I suppose there's not much of a point in taking him seriously because he just walks around talking shit probably hoping to rile people up, but he's still obviously racist, so even though I don't really care about him, I still think he's a dick.

I don't know how I feel about Billie doing the collab. Seems he most likely doesn't have a problem with working with a racist but...idk I would have to respect if he straight up said "yeah I don't give a fuck you libtard snowflakes die mad about it." I think there's no point in being disappointed in him though. It'a a mistake to have expectations in the first place.

I wouldn't say he's progressive or left. He's a centrist. That's why we should expect him to act like one instead of assuming he'd be radical in avoiding racists.

[DeJennsitized]

11 minutes ago, neverdone2000 said:

It is truly irrational, after all of his posts, rants, songs, statements, and causes to conclude that Billie doesn’t care about racism based on his doing a few lines in a Morrissey song. I mean really? This is just...I guess you also help make my point. Also, this kind of thinking is what causes movements with good intentions to fail. 

Which is why it’s disappointing. He has said all of that, but when there’s an opportunity to actually take action (ie, turn down the opportunity to work with a racist), he doesn’t do it. It makes it seem like he’s all talk and no action. 

[Christian's Inferno!]

1 minute ago, DeJennsitized said:

Which is why it’s disappointing. He has said all of that, but when there’s an opportunity to actually take action (ie, turn down the opportunity to work with a racist), he doesn’t do it. It makes it seem like he’s all talk and no action. 

Declining a music collab with someone who has different views isn't taking action against racism. That wouldn't make him seem any less "all talk / no action"

[Billie Joes Eyelids]

19 minutes ago, Libertine Angel said:

 

14 minutes ago, Beerjeezus said:

Yes, I suppose there's not much of a point in taking him seriously because he just walks around talking shit probably hoping to rile people up, but he's still obviously racist, so even though I don't really care about him, I still think he's a dick.

I don't know how I feel about Billie doing the collab. Seems he most likely doesn't have a problem with working with a racist but...idk I would have to respect if he straight up said "yeah I don't give a fuck you libtard snowflakes die mad about it." I think there's no point in being disappointed in him though. It'a a mistake to have expectations in the first place.

I wouldn't say he's progressive or left. He's a centrist. That's why we should expect him to act like one instead of assuming he'd be radical in avoiding racists.

Are we talking about the same Billie? A centrist? I strongly disagree. He was a fervent Bernie supporter during the 2016 election. He has never demonstrated anything but progressive viewpoints, and he’s obviously passed those to his sons.