Billie Joe Armstrong on new Morrissey Album

[maryjanewhatsername]

2 hours ago, Christian's Inferno! said:

@Billie Hoe seemed to think that I was purposely just "skipping over parts" though so clearly he thinks it's more likely that I'm a liar than me not seeing some posts earlier

I'm just saying let's not get too heated about it. I'm sorry for offending you. Everyone just needs to read a little closer before getting fired up. Including me. 

[duckez]

So this Morissey guy is racist and that's it. What else is there to say? It's not like he's the president, no one cares about him. And just because Billie makes a song with him doesn't mean he supports racism. It seems like when people say things that are offensive, it doesn't actually offend anyone, and it just gives people a reason to talk about them. I can't say that people aren't offended, but I'm just saying that there are probably more people mad at the person than actually offended.

I wasn't going to comment on this thread but why not before it gets locked

[Hermione]

10 hours ago, Billie Hoe said:

Thanks Miyu Yan for speaking up about it! I thought now with you coming in, as an affected person, explaining how it is racist and how it makes you feel would make people realize their behavior is fucked up but sadly some people still don't seem to get it. I'm sorry you had to read this dumpster fire.

His comment about the Chinese being a subspecies was part of the discussion the whole time but yall just love skipping over the parts that conflict with your made up rationalizations and then plead ignorance, don't you? Someone who is affected by his racism comes in and skins you, so you try to backpedal and say that he "is racist" but somehow that is still not bad enough and there are apparently worse forms of racism we, or Miyu in particular, should be focusing on? Like, do you hear yourselves?

Honestly. In the past couple of days your behavior has disappointed me so much that I regret even being in this fandom. You claim to be so open minded but still can't recognize problematic behavior when you're hit in the face with it, effectively brushing people who have been hurt under the rug because it suits you and keeps the blinders in place.

Be disappointed with Billie for working with Morrissey or don't. That is completely your choice and it's not even the point anymore. Let other people be disappointed with him. The point is all of you showcasing disgusting behavior when it comes to confronting racism. He's not just an "old man who's from a different generation", that's not an excuse and it shouldn't be used as an explanation either. I cannot even begin to tell you how fucking wrong that is. Stop trying to tell people of color, people who are affected by racism, how they should feel and most of all stop telling them that they got it all wrong. 

"He might say racist things or behave in a racist way but that doesn't mean he's being racist."

"He's just from a different generation, he doesn't know it's wrong."

"They're really good people though"

"He's just an idiot who likes to provoke people."

"Just because he said racist things doesn't mean people aren't allowed to work with him anymore, you need to be allowed to work with people who have different opinions than you."

LISTEN TO YOURSELVES. You're not reflective at all about any of this, your attempts to rationalize fucked up behavior are fucking ridiculous. The fact that you cant see this is just sad and I dont know how to explain it to people like you. Your inability to admit mistakes is just as sad and absolutely tiring. It's time for yall to start judging people by their words and actions and not by how you would like them to be.

And I'm with Miyu on this, I'm done with this place because I'm tired of people going lengths to defend everyone Billie has ever worked with, who cant be arsed to figure out why white people can't use the n-word anymore ("it's not universally agreed upon" lmfao are you fucking kidding me? what year is this?) and who are a-okay with racism apparently. I don't give a fuck about what y'all have to say anymore. Bye.

You seem to be unable to understand that different people can look at the same information and come to different conclusions from it. People have constantly acknowledged that Morrissey has said offensive and racist things and is a dickhead in this thread. Just because they don't 100% agree with you it doesn't mean they're evil or just trying to rationalise or defend Billie, it might just mean they disagree with you.

It's just a fact that it isn't universally agreed upon (by black or non black people) that non black people shouldn't quote the n word in a serious discussion, or for example that white directors shouldn't write white actors playing racist characters saying it which is an even newer concept even further from universally agreed. Most people in the world right now grew up with the accepted position that it was of course wrong to use it as an insult or refer to a black person by it or use it casually but if it was being quoted or referred to in an academic discussion or on the news etc it would be said, just as other slurs are said in that context, and not everyone has instantly switched from that. I wasn't even commenting on whether it should be said or not and had no problem with you reacting to it and expressing your opinion on it in the thread, only pointed out it's still a subject of discussion that not everyone agrees on.

 

Idk, people have different opinions on how bad Morrissey is and different opinions on Billie working with him. That's about it, there's always going to be people with different opinions on things.

 

11 hours ago, 龑美優 (Miyu Yan) said:

...did I actually read that the statement of Chinese people being a subspecies is, somehow, not grounds enough for calling Morrissey himself a racist? That is an inherently and objectively racist statement. 

 

As a half-Chinese person, I'm going to have to say that he is, in fact, a racist for saying that. Fuck these forums for implying the man is just being ignorant, rather than calling him an out-and-out racist for his legitimately racist beliefs. I'm pretty fired up after seeing people continue to be ok with the racism and otherization against the Chinese. The actions of the few does not make racist condemnation of an entire group of people ok.

 

I'm done with this place. Discussion and disagreement are fine. Acting like racism against my people does not make a person racist, however, is messed up. 

I completely agree it's a racist statement. Offensive and uncalled for to insult an entire group for the actions of a few, and he should apologise for it. I also think the reason he says things like that is to get attention for himself and his animal rights cause, being the rude and obnoxious idiot that he is. I'm sorry if it came across like I was saying that excuses him saying it, it doesn't.

[The Bellie]

3 hours ago, Hermione said:

You seem to be unable to understand that different people can look at the same information and come to different conclusions from it. People have constantly acknowledged that Morrissey has said offensive and racist things and is a dickhead in this thread. Just because they don't 100% agree with you it doesn't mean they're evil or just trying to rationalise or defend Billie, it might just mean they disagree with you.

Idk, people have different opinions on how bad Morrissey is and different opinions on Billie working with him. That's about it, there's always going to be people with different opinions on things.

I couldn't say it better 

11 hours ago, Billie Hoe said:

Honestly. In the past couple of days your behavior has disappointed me so much that I regret even being in this fandom. You claim to be so open minded but still can't recognize problematic behavior when you're hit in the face with it, effectively brushing people who have been hurt under the rug because it suits you and keeps the blinders in place.

Be disappointed with Billie for working with Morrissey or don't. That is completely your choice and it's not even the point anymore. Let other people be disappointed with him. The point is all of you showcasing disgusting behavior when it comes to confronting racism. He's not just an "old man who's from a different generation", that's not an excuse and it shouldn't be used as an explanation either. I cannot even begin to tell you how fucking wrong that is. Stop trying to tell people of color, people who are affected by racism, how they should feel and most of all stop telling them that they got it all wrong. 

I think, on the contrary, this forum is great to have real and interesting discussions. I don't see people telling you to feel differently than how you feel about Morrisseygate, or that what you feel is wrong, you are the one telling people who feel differently that they are wrong: "I cannot even begin to tell you how fucking wrong that is". Being open-minded is listening to others' opinion, even if you don't agree. How do you know if other people on here have been affected by either form of discrimination? Just because people don't come to the same conclusions or don't feel the same ways about it as you do, you're affirming they're indifferent to racism.

Besides, the "blinders" you mention could be on either point of view. One of the people I mentioned in my last post has told me (once again, he must be about the same age as Morrissey): "Your generation (he was speaking to me) is overusing political correctness, we can't tell a joke without being called out as a racist, we can't express what we may think of other ethnic groups, or say that we disagree on gay marriage..." Yet he's the one from whom I learned that the first homo sapiens were black. I think he was saying what he said because I told him I wasn't very fond of his jokes being almost only about Arabic people (half of my family is somewhat Arabic so I'm also sensible to it), even if the jokes were more or less funny, and I don't believe they were racist. Maybe he perceived me as someone who wants to fit in "political correctness" (which is funny because until a little time ago, political correctness was the way he thinks...). Maybe he mixes political correctness and defending gay marriage or not sharing his ideas of Arabic people, for example. It doesn't matter. It's interesting to hear what he has to hear, to understand why he says it.

Now I think many people (notably from his generation) feel like some things (even when they happen to be actual social progresses) are enforced on them, and they want to exist by being opposed to it, at least in idea. Maybe I'm not expressing myself very well, and gay marriage isn't the best example because beyond being an opinion, it's a law, it's reality, it's happening now (in France), so people against it won't be happy with it anyways, but they have the right not to agree overall, that's my point. Let's support gay marriage and let be those who doesn't. These things can't be enforced on people. I believe in time mentalities will change and social progresses will be seen as such. But you don't change mentalities by enforcing things on people and decreeing "this is good, this is bad." You change mentalities by making the discussions open, and let each person say what they have to say. If they're wrong they'll find out by themselves after listening, in turn, to what others have to say.

As a better example, if you want to forbid non-Black people to say or write "nigger", that's enforcing things on people. It's their freedom to do what they want with that word. If you call out on racism against a White someone using this word, maybe you should consider non judging people so hastily. Listen to the people's reasons to use it, expose why you don't use it, and there you have mutual listen. I don't mean to be offensive but I think it's in response to reactions such as yours on this kind of matter (coming notably from people our generation) that a lot of elder people become bitter and deliberately offensive, even if it's just for the sake of showing that they still have their freedom of speech, when facing what they call "political correctness". I don't really like what's happening on both extremes, but constant defiance and hasty judgments are not helping to lead people to get closer to each other, despite their different opinions about things.

[I don't care]

10 hours ago, neverdone2000 said:

Hey, if Billie isn’t up to your impeccable ethical standards, good luck to you in whatever fandoms you might pursue. 

So now basic fucking human decency is “impeccabale ethical standards”? Good to know! Let me just befriend all terrible people in the world because apparently my standards were simply too high. Apologies, racists.

Asking someone to not work with, and in extension supporting them, actual racists is not even much to ask for. Billie is a human being too, and we can't simply idolize him and let his wrongs pass. I love him, I really do, but we need to call him out when what he does is wrong. He's not perfect, no one is.

[Billie Joes Eyelids]

27 minutes ago, I don't care said:

So now basic fucking human decency is “impeccabale ethical standards”? Good to know! Let me just befriend all terrible people in the world because apparently my standards were simply too high. Apologies, racists.

Asking someone to not work with, and in extension supporting them, actual racists is not even much to ask for. Billie is a human being too, and we can't simply idolize him and let his wrongs pass. I love him, I really do, but we need to call him out when what he does is wrong. He's not perfect, no one is.

You have completely missed the point, but I’m not the least bit surprised anymore. I’m telling you, you guys just don’t get it. You are setting yourselves up for a lifetime of disappointment and “cancelling” people in your lives if you don’t start picking your battles. You’re going to be down to the few holy “woke” people who have never associated with someone who said something that is against your principles, or who doesn’t meet your own purity test. This is the kind of thing that is going to lead to Trump being re-elected if we’re not careful, because most people can smell overreach a mile away. If this is the kind of hill you choose to die on, it’s totally up to you. But don’t expect other people to fall in line behind the same hill.

[Hermione]

37 minutes ago, I don't care said:

So now basic fucking human decency is “impeccabale ethical standards”? Good to know! Let me just befriend all terrible people in the world because apparently my standards were simply too high. Apologies, racists.

Asking someone to not work with, and in extension supporting them, actual racists is not even much to ask for. Billie is a human being too, and we can't simply idolize him and let his wrongs pass. I love him, I really do, but we need to call him out when what he does is wrong. He's not perfect, no one is.

I think the point is you're not going to find many artists with better ethical standards than Billie. Every artist (every person in fact, including you) has worked or associated with someone who's said offensive things at some point. Just because the people in this thread have looked up everything Morrissey's ever said it doesn't mean Billie did before he worked with him, it's not reasonable to assume he's looked at all the same info that's been discussed here and said "yep I have no problem with any of that let's work together" when he's as likely not to be aware of most if not all of it since it isn't what Morrissey's primarily known for. Call him out when he's done something wrong I agree with, but not when he's worked on one song with someone who's done something wrong that he might not even be aware of so a fair judgement can't be made.

That said anyone is still free to feel however they want about him working with him. Not everyone has drawn the same conclusion that's all.

[I don't care]

49 minutes ago, neverdone2000 said:

You have completely missed the point, but I’m not the least bit surprised anymore. I’m telling you, you guys just don’t get it. You are setting yourselves up for a lifetime of disappointment and “cancelling” people in your lives if you don’t start picking your battles. You’re going to be down to the few holy “woke” people who have never associated with someone who said something that is against your principles, or who doesn’t meet your own purity test. This is the kind of thing that is going to lead to Trump being re-elected if we’re not careful, because most people can smell overreach a mile away. If this is the kind of hill you choose to die on, it’s totally up to you. But don’t expect other people to fall in line behind the same hill.

The thing is, nobody is perfect. And nobody will ever be perfect. The least we can do is acknowledge what’s “wrong” and teach/learn to do it “right”. No one is “cancelling” Billie. We’re simply trying to get you to understand that he did wrong. Which is okay, if you acknowledge it and realize that you did wrong.

I can only speak for myself, but I assume the people you’re referring to can also agree that wrongs can be made right. For example, Billie could realize that working with Morrisey is not ideal, and break it up. Or Morrisey could realize that “woah, maybe being a racist isn’t okay. I’m gonna rethink.” (Which probably isn’t gonna happen, but one can dream) and then he wouldn’t be wrong anymore.

for example, I used to think that it was okay to use the n-word and I did use it a lot, until someone came up to me and very calmly explained that it’s not okay. I changed my mind and now I never use it. I was wrong, but I made it right.

but the main point is that in order to make the world a better place, we can’t ignore all these wrongs. We have to educate people and teach them that THIS IS NOT OKAY!

because no one likes racism, right?

[WhiteTim]

Billie is a fan of and has covered a song that was done by a murderer 

doesnt make him a bad person...

I worked in music for 16 years I can promise y’all if you don’t want to listen to music because of who the artists associates with I promise you y’all would have ZERO albums to listen to... 

[I don't care]

1 minute ago, WhiteTim said:

Billie is a fan of and has covered a song that was done by a murderer 

doesnt make him a bad person...

I worked in music for 16 years I can promise y’all if you don’t want to listen to music because of who the artists associates with I promise you y’all would have ZERO albums to listen to... 

Now you’re just deliberately trying to misunderstand. No one has said they won’t listen to the music. We’re just trying to explain why some things deserve to be called out.

[WhiteTim]

Just now, I don't care said:

Now you’re just deliberately trying to misunderstand. No one has said they won’t listen to the music. We’re just trying to explain why some things deserve to be called out.

Not misunderstanding shit don’t ever speak on what I understand or don’t again  

I’m speaking in general escp since this spun off the separating the art from the artist thread 

[Hermione]

20 minutes ago, I don't care said:

The thing is, nobody is perfect. And nobody will ever be perfect. The least we can do is acknowledge what’s “wrong” and teach/learn to do it “right”. No one is “cancelling” Billie. We’re simply trying to get you to understand that he did wrong. Which is okay, if you acknowledge it and realize that you did wrong.

I can only speak for myself, but I assume the people you’re referring to can also agree that wrongs can be made right. For example, Billie could realize that working with Morrisey is not ideal, and break it up. Or Morrisey could realize that “woah, maybe being a racist isn’t okay. I’m gonna rethink.” (Which probably isn’t gonna happen, but one can dream) and then he wouldn’t be wrong anymore.

for example, I used to think that it was okay to use the n-word and I did use it a lot, until someone came up to me and very calmly explained that it’s not okay. I changed my mind and now I never use it. I was wrong, but I made it right.

but the main point is that in order to make the world a better place, we can’t ignore all these wrongs. We have to educate people and teach them that THIS IS NOT OKAY!

because no one likes racism, right?

Not everyone agrees that Billie did wrong. Whether something is wrong or right isn't always a black and white fact, it isn't as simple as that and that's why people discuss and debate things. People can disagree, it's ok. (edit: I'm NOT talking about racism being wrong or right here, I'm talking about working with someone who's said some racist things he might not even know about). If you think Morrissey thinks he's a racist you're definitely looking at things too simplistically. 

Btw they've already made the song so there's nothing to break up. They met at some event, then spent a couple of hours or whatever recording one cover song for an album.

[Joe.]

My opinion is that whilst Morrissey has said some racist things, they don't appear to have racist beliefs. He's purposefully exaggerated situations partly to try (pointlessly) to get a reaction of change from the groups he's talked about, and partly to try and gain support of others. Im not defending his comments and am not really that arsed about the collaboration, my point is I think the situation has been overblown when the context of comments is taken into account. Doesn't make what he's said right or any less racist, I just personally don't think Morrissey is a racist person. We can disagree and I'm not telling those who were offended by those comments how to feel as that would be ridiculous.

I think Morrissey is a moron and obviously don't agree with or defend his comments, they were racist. I just don't believe he's a racist. I personally will still enjoy The Smiths, Green Day and listen to this collaboration

[WhiteTim]

I see it as this 

Yes I find Morrissey to be racist and a moron 

but I see the backlash a bit hypocritical 

Billie is a fan and friends of the band Fang and has even covered one of the songs that has appeared on two GD releases as a b side to Geek Stink Breath and then later on Shenanigans (I Want To Be On T.V.) where the founder murdered his girlfriend because he suspected the girlfriend was helping a rival acid dealer to get more customers than him so he crushed her neck but no outrage Billie helps support his art (Fang does get payments for every copy Shenanigans sells...) for actual killing a woman but upset he works with a guy who says very very fucked up words...

[DeJennsitized]

I think it's the fact that people are trying to downplay the things Morrissey has said in order to explain why they're okay with this collaboration is what got people riled up. I honestly don't care that people still want to listen to it, but it's the reach that happened when some people said they didn't think it was a good idea, and expected better from someone who is so publicly against bigotry. It went from 'I didn't know Morrissey said this' to 'he said that but it wasn't from a race point of view' to 'yeah that's totally racist but doesn't mean he's a racist' to 'yeah he's a racist but so?' 

 

 

[Hermione]

I hope it doesn't come across as trying to downplay things he's said because I think things like the Chinese comment are totally unacceptable and warrant an apology. There's still other reasons that people say things besides just racism though....do you not agree that Morrissey deliberately says things in an offensive way for attention/to be obnoxious? I don't think that makes it any more acceptable for him to say it but if you're talking about what his core beliefs are and why he might not be widely seen as a racist (and therefore why Billie didn't go no way I'm not working with him) it's relevant.

[DeJennsitized]

4 minutes ago, Hermione said:

I hope it doesn't come across as trying to downplay things he's said because I think things like the Chinese comment are totally unacceptable and warrant an apology. There's still other reasons that people say things besides just racism though....do you not agree that Morrissey deliberately says things in an offensive way for attention/to be obnoxious? I don't think that makes it any more acceptable for him to say it but if you're talking about what his core beliefs are and why he might not be widely seen as a racist (and therefore why Billie didn't go no way I'm not working with him) it's relevant.

Most people don't just say stuff with the sole purpose of being racist. The vast majority of racism is the exact kind of casual ignorance Morrissey seems to have. So, yeah, he frames his opinions on animal rights in an offensive way, but like you say, it doesn't make it any less acceptable. 

And it's not some secret only GDC know - this stuff is widely available. Billie has access to the same internet as the rest of us. And no, not everyone googles people for info, but in this specific case - a celebrity with strong opinions about racism/sexism/homophobia emarking on a collab with another celebrity - it takes two seconds to just check to see if doing the collab will be contradictory or not.

And it might not seem like a big deal in the scheme of things, but I think at the core of it is the fact Billie, in doing this, is actively contributing to the idea that you can say shitty things and have it not adversely affect you in any way. Why should Morrissey shut up about his racist opinions if he can still get Billie Joe Armstrong to work with him? And that's really the crux of it I reckon.

[Joe.]

51 minutes ago, DeJennsitized said:

I think it's the fact that people are trying to downplay the things Morrissey has said in order to explain why they're okay with this collaboration is what got people riled up. I honestly don't care that people still want to listen to it, but it's the reach that happened when some people said they didn't think it was a good idea, and expected better from someone who is so publicly against bigotry. It went from 'I didn't know Morrissey said this' to 'he said that but it wasn't from a race point of view' to 'yeah that's totally racist but doesn't mean he's a racist' to 'yeah he's a racist but so?' 

 

 

If you press "@" I get mentioned when you refer to me 👍.  

 

47 minutes ago, Hermione said:

I hope it doesn't come across as trying to downplay things he's said because I think things like the Chinese comment are totally unacceptable and warrant an apology. There's still other reasons that people say things besides just racism though....do you not agree that Morrissey deliberately says things in an offensive way for attention/to be obnoxious? I don't think that makes it any more acceptable for him to say it but if you're talking about what his core beliefs are and why he might not be widely seen as a racist (and therefore why Billie didn't go no way I'm not working with him) it's relevant.

Exactly. Its obviously not acceptable but I don't think he's a racist person he's just saying completely unacceptable things to try and promote his core beliefs. As someone thats not effected by his comments its easy for me to say but I think the situations been overblown.

[DeJennsitized]

Just now, Joe. said:

If you press "@" I get mentioned when you refer to me 👍.  

 

I wasn't just referring to you. I didn't tag anyone because it was relevent to the entire thread. I'm hardly bitching about people behind their back, it's a public forum, lol 

[Joe.]

Just now, DeJennsitized said:

I wasn't just referring to you. I didn't tag anyone because it was relevent to the entire thread. I'm hardly bitching about people behind their back, it's a public forum, lol 

Apologies, it appeared those quotes came from me.

[DeJennsitized]

Just now, Joe. said:

Apologies, it appeared those quotes came from me.

They weren't meant to be direct quotes, sorry if it looked that way

[Hermione]

46 minutes ago, DeJennsitized said:

Most people don't just say stuff with the sole purpose of being racist. The vast majority of racism is the exact kind of casual ignorance Morrissey seems to have. So, yeah, he frames his opinions on animal rights in an offensive way, but like you say, it doesn't make it any less acceptable. 

And it's not some secret only GDC know - this stuff is widely available. Billie has access to the same internet as the rest of us. And no, not everyone googles people for info, but in this specific case - a celebrity with strong opinions about racism/sexism/homophobia emarking on a collab with another celebrity - it takes two seconds to just check to see if doing the collab will be contradictory or not.

And it might not seem like a big deal in the scheme of things, but I think at the core of it is the fact Billie, in doing this, is actively contributing to the idea that you can say shitty things and have it not adversely affect you in any way. Why should Morrissey shut up about his racist opinions if he can still get Billie Joe Armstrong to work with him? And that's really the crux of it I reckon.

It would take two seconds if it occurred to him there was a reason to check him out. But there might not have been. If he recently met him and thought he seemed like a cool guy and the only plan was to record a quick cover song his first thought probably wasn't to research his quotes. I just think he was coming into it from a different POV to the people in this thread and it's highly unlikely he had the same amount of info in front of him when he decided to do it so it's hard to judge him over it.

[Joe.]

50 minutes ago, DeJennsitized said:

Most people don't just say stuff with the sole purpose of being racist. The vast majority of racism is the exact kind of casual ignorance Morrissey seems to have. So, yeah, he frames his opinions on animal rights in an offensive way, but like you say, it doesn't make it any less acceptable. 

Yeah exactly. Whilst its still outrageous it's clearly coming from a place of ignorance rather than hatred which is why for me the situation is overblown. 

And it's not some secret only GDC know - this stuff is widely available. Billie has access to the same internet as the rest of us. And no, not everyone googles people for info, but in this specific case - a celebrity with strong opinions about racism/sexism/homophobia emarking on a collab with another celebrity - it takes two seconds to just check to see if doing the collab will be contradictory or not.

Don't know how Billie works but is that a thought that would realistically go through Billie's head? "I must check to see if our views align or if this will be seen as hypocritical before we collab". I don't think its something he'd consider

And it might not seem like a big deal in the scheme of things, but I think at the core of it is the fact Billie, in doing this, is actively contributing to the idea that you can say shitty things and have it not adversely affect you in any way. Why should Morrissey shut up about his racist opinions if he can still get Billie Joe Armstrong to work with him? And that's really the crux of it I reckon.

I don't think Morrissey would shut up regardless of Billie Joe's opinion, its Morrissey's album and would be able to attract other names just as big as Billie Joe to collaborate with

 

[Billie Joes Eyelids]

51 minutes ago, DeJennsitized said:

Most people don't just say stuff with the sole purpose of being racist. The vast majority of racism is the exact kind of casual ignorance Morrissey seems to have. So, yeah, he frames his opinions on animal rights in an offensive way, but like you say, it doesn't make it any less acceptable. 

And it's not some secret only GDC know - this stuff is widely available. Billie has access to the same internet as the rest of us. And no, not everyone googles people for info, but in this specific case - a celebrity with strong opinions about racism/sexism/homophobia emarking on a collab with another celebrity - it takes two seconds to just check to see if doing the collab will be contradictory or not.

And it might not seem like a big deal in the scheme of things, but I think at the core of it is the fact Billie, in doing this, is actively contributing to the idea that you can say shitty things and have it not adversely affect you in any way. Why should Morrissey shut up about his racist opinions if he can still get Billie Joe Armstrong to work with him? And that's really the crux of it I reckon.

Again, those of you who are offended by Billie contributing to one song with Morrissey have a right to call him out, and you have throughout this thread. And those of us who feel that’s an overreaction have a right to do that also. We are arguing in circles because some of you believe it’s call out-able and some of us don’t. There have been arguments both ways. If it was left at that no problem. But it’s pretty hypocritical to act like it’s just calling him out when some of the arguments are multi paragraph orations about why he’s being called out, why anyone who doesn’t agree is shit, and why the fandom is shit for not agreeing. Again, that is more a statement that some people have failed the purity test. I’m just telling you for future reference, you’re gonna piss a lot of people off with that angle. 

[Joe.]

3 minutes ago, neverdone2000 said:

Again, those of you who are offended by Billie contributing to one song with Morrissey have a right to call him out, and you have throughout this thread. And those of us who feel that’s an overreaction have a right to do that also. We are arguing in circles because some of you believe it’s call out-able and some of us don’t. There have been arguments both ways. If it was left at that no problem. But it’s pretty hypocritical to act like it’s just calling him out when some of the arguments are multi paragraph orations about why he’s being called out, why anyone who doesn’t agree is shit, and why the fandom is shit for not agreeing. Again, that is more a statement that some people have failed the purity test. I’m just telling you for future reference, you’re gonna piss a lot of people off with that angle. 

You're not wrong in the fact that the conversations going in circles.  I do think people have a point in questioning the collaboration but it's happening regardless of what people say and that the opinions surrounding individual comments are kinda irrelevant. Tbf I've not really seen anyone attacking the fandom at large aside from one post.