Longshot album Love is for Losers

[Hermione]

4 hours ago, LaughingClock said:

When I get home, I’m gonna lyrically analyze that song and put it on this post but I have to drive right. He also talks about (up for interpretation) becuse it could mean anything but he says “she” and she is Cobra I’m pretty certain. The run that led to his breakdown was with her and ended at iHeart and I think he finally saw when the fog was lifted who was good and who was using and abusing him.  I don’t know why there is so much protection and sticking up for her around here. She was a fucking train wreck. I’ll finish this later.

Because we don't speculate/gossip about the band members' and their family/friends' personal lives here, and pretty much no one knows anything about Lady Cobra (aside from her band supported FBHT, she did Nightlife and Billie wrote about a characterized version of her on Dos) to do so anyway. It's not sticking up, it's just not speculating about something we don't know about and isn't our business.

[Beerjeezus]

And the prophecy has been fulfilled 

Anyway, I can't help feeling like the whole Lady Cobra thing is a typical case of blaming the woman - as if the guy wasn't responsible for himself 

[Hermione]

I think on the album she does represent temptation but it's fairly equal/mutual and they're both just doing what they want and leading each other astray. And if blame's put on someone it's mostly Billie/the male character as the one shown being unfaithful and regretting it. Beyond that we can't assume the characters/events on the album represent anything literal IRL or speculate about it when we don't know about their personal lives and nor is it our business to. Billie has stated it's imagination/fantasy, just because lyrics can be influenced by real life it doesn't mean you can start looking at them as if they're literal accounts of things unless the writer says they are.

[AlissaGoesRAWR]

People actually think “Lady Cobra” was anything but a personification in a couple songs on the album? 

[The Bellie]

4 hours ago, Jane Lannister said:

Anyway, I can't help feeling like the whole Lady Cobra thing is a typical case of blaming the woman - as if the guy wasn't responsible for himself 

I agree and personally don't know much or think anything special about Lady Cobra, but saying Billie is talking about her in the songs and saying she is to blame are 2 different things, I would like to know more of the 1st... And why would he say "thank you for the sympathy and the punch in the nose" to someone who is to blame? It makes me think that the person he is addressing has made him wake up to some things he wasn't realizing and has therefore helped him.

Spoiler

 

Not speculating, but I just had these scenes showing up in my mind :

1) Punch in the nose (for real) while saying "don't hang out with me anymore, it's not good for you." 

2) Punch in the nose (for real) after he said he won't hang out with her anymore and that was a relief, he felt like nothing more tied him to her.

 

[LaughingClock]

9 hours ago, Hermione said:

Because we don't speculate/gossip about the band members' and their family/friends' personal lives here, and pretty much no one knows anything about Lady Cobra (aside from her band supported FBHT, she did Nightlife and Billie wrote about a characterized version of her on Dos) to do so anyway. It's not sticking up, it's just not speculating about something we don't know about and isn't our business.

I didn’t say I was speculating anything and since Billie is writing about it for mass public consumption, I think speaking about that part of it, which exists, is fair game but okay.

14 hours ago, pacejunkie punk said:

I look forward to your analysis of the song, but other than references in a few trilogy songs there’s not a lot of info on what he and Cobra did together and when. Billie describes the events of August and September 2012 leading up to iHeart in the Rolling Stone interview and Lady Cobra is never mentioned. So other than being one of many people he partied with from 2010-2012, how do you know she was solely and directly implicated in the run leading up to his breakdown? 

I will just say this. The run that was his final binge pretty much infamously started with the Don Hill in NY FBHT legendary show.

While that Tubbie show showed a very jubilant Billie that was having a blast, that was the beginning of what lead to the breakdown. 

NOW OF COURSE, that’s not where he began drinking or doing drugs but it was his “last hoorah” - CAG as after iHeart he never did drugs again (as far as I know anyway)..

Please understand that I am not suggesting much more than surface stuff here. There is nobody to blame but Billie regardless if I call her a trainereck. There is no love lost. I promise. Lol. And I am just saying that I believe he is writing about that occasion, not really dogging her. He’s a grown ass man responsible for his own actions. It was a happy time in his career. New found global admiration like never before with AI, successful musical just opened, he was having fun, too much.

And the line (and again I still have to do the analysis) but the line “and hanging from a chandelier from a long long time ago” - CAG..

Which I take to mean literally “hanging on to the past” but it also conjures images of Billie hanging from his knees upside down at Don on the rafters. I remember while everyone else was so excited thinking, “this is not good” and then the rest is literal history. Then of course where he says to “she” “thanks for the memories and the punch in the eye” or whatever the lyric is. And “him, thanks for the memories but now I have to go”, speaking to st. jimmy. That’s from fairly educated knowledge, my take on some of those lyrics and it rises beyond the level of “speculation”. 

This isn’t exactly private news and since he has written about all of it in every area of this and including this song, I don’t think it’s not okay to talk about the song’s meaning. 

** Dropping hints on my lyrical analysts of CAG which ive actually really been wanting to do but I put a good amount of it, touched on, in this post. Full to come later.

[Hermione]

26 minutes ago, LaughingClock said:

I don’t think it’s not okay to talk about the song’s meaning. 

Yeah it's fine to talk about that. It's just then assuming what he's written in a song is a literal description of real life or judging real people by it that's not so good. Like we know the songs are influenced by real life but we can't judge specific things about real life from them unless Billie has said that specific thing really happened, you know?

30 minutes ago, Kuromignonne said:

It makes me think that the person he is addressing has made him wake up to some things he wasn't realizing and has therefore helped him.

 

I agree

[LaughingClock]

4 minutes ago, Hermione said:

Yeah it's fine to talk about that. It's just then assuming what he's written in a song is a literal description of real life or judging real people by it that's not so good. Like we know the songs are influenced by real life but we can't judge specific things about real life from them unless Billie has said that specific thing really happened, you know?

I can dig. I read this after the post and edits above but for some of us, speculation is not what’s happening at all. These are pretty direct songs even if cleverly written. I can get the if Billie didn’t say it than we can’t discuss the meaning if it’s sensitive but I know he wouldn’t care but I can understand the rule. Okay.

On the flip side, Billie wouldn’t even talk about the fact that WMEWSE until long after its release and because he likes to write about himself in songs but he doesn’t love talking about himself except in his writing. In interviews he likes to talk about “them”, “they” and “we” when he writes it’s a lot of “me, me, me”, which is not a knock. Lol. I relate to the man on every album and am younger than him by a several years but I get everything he’s going through and has gone through. Leave it at that. Thanks Herms.

[Hermione]

16 minutes ago, LaughingClock said:

I can dig. I read this after the post and edits above but for some of us, speculation is not what’s happening at all. These are pretty direct songs even if cleverly written. I can get the if Billie didn’t say it than we can’t discuss the meaning if it’s sensitive but I know he wouldn’t care but I can understand the rule. Okay.

I mean it's mostly the part where you're talking about Lady Cobra not as a character on the album but actually her as a person. I think we can discuss song meanings whether Billie's said it or not, I just don't think that has to involve making judgements about him and people he knows in real life. Only he knows his personal life, we don't know how literally it's influenced any given song just from listening to it.

[Beerjeezus]

38 minutes ago, Kuromignonne said:

I agree and personally don't know much or think anything special about Lady Cobra, but saying Billie is talking about her in the songs and saying she is to blame are 2 different things, I would like to know more of the 1st... And why would he say "thank you for the sympathy and the punch in the nose" to someone who is to blame? It makes me think that the person he is addressing has made him wake up to some things he wasn't realizing and has therefore helped him.

It's true that there's nothing wrong with interpreting songs any way you want. What I meant was that I'm not a big fan of this narrative that has the woman as the one who leads the man into doing problematic things (he normally might not do). It's precisely what some of the songs are about but I think it's a bad stereotype seen not only in art but in real life too. 

[LaughingClock]

20 minutes ago, Hermione said:

I mean it's mostly the part where you're talking about Lady Cobra not as a character on the album but actually her as a person. I think we can discuss song meanings whether Billie's said it or not, I just don't think that has to involve making judgements about him and people he knows in real life. Only he knows his personal life, we don't know how literally it's influenced any given song.

Of course not but he duscusss nothing but his personal life and does so for interpretation and public consumption by the public, not for people whispering in a corner. I said I understand the rule and will truly try my best to abide by it because I decided I would be bummed if I got banned from here but what seems illogical to me is sometimes hard for me to even realize when I’m “fucking up” but I promise to do my best.

That was not meant to sound condescending.

1 hour ago, AlissaGoesRAWR said:

People actually think “Lady Cobra” was anything but a personification in a couple songs on the album? 

She most definitely is a person and furthermore is featured on the album. It’s hard to find her videos out there now because google searches just give Green Day responses.

She is part of a rap rock duo named Lady Cobra and whatever the now less famous one is. 

Lol. I am not even an iota unsure on this one. Lady Cobra is NOT A character, she is a person and she is alsi credited on the album as doing the rap part of Nightlife, that is in fact Lady Cobra. She can also be seen on a couple Tubbie vids.

I’ll go search for the videos. Tbh, I used to think she was amazingly hot. Not so much anymore but the whole “it’s blaming the woman” thing.

No mam to whoever said that above. I worship women, I am not sexist so next theory.

 

[LaughingClock]

@AlissaGoesRAWR

Remembered the name:

Music Knights of the Cobra. (Lead vocal Lady Cobra).

I guess here is your introduction to Lady Cobra right before she entered the annals of Green Dau Trilogy history: (she is real and performs on the Trill twice. Didn’t really help her career.

Also Lady Cobra, the fleshy living person:

How do you guys not know this? This is not a secret. 

[Hermione]

@LaughingClock We do know she's a real person . But on Dos Billie writes about her as a character and she plays a character. It's based on her/her stage persona (to what extent who knows) but it's not a literal account of events, it's a character.

[LaughingClock]

6 minutes ago, Hermione said:

@LaughingClock We do know she's a real person . But on Dos Billie writes about her as a character and she plays a character. It's based on her/her stage persona (to what extent who knows) but it's not a literal account of events, it's a character.

You might not know. I do though.

She is in person on my above post. Don’t know how to prove it better than that. Perhaps looking at the credit she gets on two songs?

Yeah, the content is a manifestation but Lady Cobra is the nickname of an absolutely real person. I’m not talking about any trilogy songs in here or his reality but she is no less a real person than say Tre Cool.  You don’t think his mom named him that do you? Artists often have “stage names”, that’s hers and we’ll before meeting Billie. Not to say we can’t interpret his lyrics but he’s a real person! Oddest discussion ever. /scene

[Hermione]

9 minutes ago, LaughingClock said:

You might not know. I do though.

She is in person on my above post. Don’t know how to prove it better than that. Perhaps looking at the credit she gets on two songs?

Songs aren't essays. They're often influenced by real life but aren't to be taken as literal accounts of real life. Dos is songs about a guy partying and having a fling with a girl, two characters. Influences could come from a mix current life experiences, past life experiences, and just thoughts. Billie has stated most of the stuff is just imagination/fantasy. The point I'm trying to make is we don't know how much of any song comes from real life. So we can't listen to a song and make judgements about real life/real people from it.

[Billie Joes Eyelids]

2 minutes ago, Hermione said:

Songs aren't essays. They're often influenced by real life but aren't to be taken as literal accounts of real life. Dos is songs about a guy partying and having a fling with a girl, two characters. Influences could come from a mix current life experiences, past life experiences, or just thoughts. Billie has stated most of the stuff is just imagination/fantasy. The point I'm trying to make is we don't know how much of any song comes from real life. So we can't listen to a song and make judgements about real life/real people from it.

I think what @LaughingClock is saying though, correct me if I’m wrong, is that his information is based on knowing people close to the band and knowing what parts of the songs are based on real life. Not his own personal interpretation of the song.

[Hermione]

12 minutes ago, LaughingClock said:

You might not know. I do though.

She is in person on my above post. Don’t know how to prove it better than that. Perhaps looking at the credit she gets on two songs?

Yeah, the content is a manifestation but Lady Cobra is the nickname of an absolutely real person. I’m not talking about any trilogy songs in here or his reality but she is no less a real person than say Tre Cool.  You don’t think his mom named him that do you? Artists often have “stage names”, that’s hers and we’ll before meeting Billie. Not to say we can’t interpret his lyrics but he’s a real person! Oddest discussion ever. /scene

OK just reading your edit, I promise no one's saying she's not a real person . Only that like you say the content is a manifestation. Could just be a misunderstanding here.

[LaughingClock]

9 minutes ago, Hermione said:

Songs aren't essays. They're often influenced by real life but aren't to be taken as literal accounts of real life. Dos is songs about a guy partying and having a fling with a girl, two characters. Influences could come from a mix current life experiences, past life experiences, and just thoughts. Billie has stated most of the stuff is just imagination/fantasy. The point I'm trying to make is we don't know how much of any song comes from real life. So we can't listen to a song and make judgements about real life/real people from it.

**before rearing your above post. Cool! Thanks!!

Only you guys are talking about the accounts in dos. I’m talking about CAG and anyway I said okay to the rule but I was just showing COBRA is a living breathing person.

Argh!!

[Hermione]

6 minutes ago, neverdone2000 said:

I think what @LaughingClock is saying though, correct me if I’m wrong, is that his information is based on knowing people close to the band and knowing what parts of the songs are based on real life. Not his own personal interpretation of the song.

Probably. But tbh I'm not interested in gossip about the band members' or their friends' personal lives being brought into a discussion about song meanings. It isn't necessary.

 

[LaughingClock]

1 minute ago, Hermione said:

Probably. But tbh I'm not interested in gossip about the band members' or their friends' personal lives being brought into a discussion about song meanings. It isn't necessary.

Ok, I just responded to your above post and said okay, no problem but this was being written at the time.

I won’t discuss it but then don’t say we are discussing the meaning of the song because...

[Hermione]

2 minutes ago, LaughingClock said:

Ok, I just responded to your above post and said okay, no problem but this was being written at the time.

I won’t discuss it but then don’t say we are discussing the meaning of the song because...

Look I have no problem with someone saying they think it's Lady Cobra being addressed on CAG whether than means "Lady Cobra" the Dos character or real Lady Cobra who he was friends with/partied with or whatever. Just don't need gossip/judgement about her brought into it, that's all.

[Chin for a Day]

Forget lady cobra. I'm replacing her I have the part down

[LaughingClock]

3 minutes ago, Hermione said:

Look I have no problem with someone saying they think it's Lady Cobra being addressed on CAG whether than means "Lady Cobra" the Dos character or real Lady Cobra who he was friends with/partied with or whatever. Just don't need gossip/judgement about her brought into it, that's all.

But you just said you’re okay with it. Which one is it? She’s a public figure and very much wants to be and Billie has written about her on several songs. 

SEEMS LUDICROUS to not be allowed to discuss her but again,  no problem.

[Billie Hoe]

13 minutes ago, LaughingClock said:

But you just said you’re okay with it. Which one is it? She’s a public figure and very much wants to be and Billie has written about her on several songs. 

SEEMS LUDICROUS to not be allowed to discuss her but again,  no problem.

Do you wanna replace HOTH so bad? 

[Hermione]

14 minutes ago, LaughingClock said:

But you just said you’re okay with it. Which one is it? She’s a public figure and very much wants to be and Billie has written about her on several songs. 

SEEMS LUDICROUS to not be allowed to discuss her but again,  no problem.

Green Day are public figures too and we don't speculate about their personal lives and judge their character based on song lyrics either. This is going round in circles, I don't know what's hard about interpreting song lyrics without judging people irl from them or posting gossip about people.