Longshot album Love is for Losers

[jengd]

2 hours ago, LaughingClock said:

 

I hate liner notes and lyrics on Apple Music. I always thought the lyric was “sole” defender (as in only defender) because the lyric tricks you because we were just saying Soul Surrender and so it’s tricky again but it also audibly sounds like “soul defender” and the discussion about it is part of the fun of Billie but this word happens to be spelled different soul and sole so it takes the guess work out. Saw the lyrics down there and couldn’t help myself.  At least I was right.  Lyric books demystify and we wouldn’t have the hysterical misheard ones.

Sole/soul - typical Billie, could well be either and as we have no sleeve notes from him, we don't know - and then can't necessarily assume he spelt it correctly 

1 hour ago, Jane Lannister said:

I think it makes sense that the she he's referencing is the one from the trilogy (whoever it is) and if there's a he, it's his own past self.

I hear "him" on the album but have noticed sometimes it could be "her" but again, wouldn't put it past him to mess with us and change it around.  

[jengd]

T-shirt - from 2014.

 

[LaughingClock]

18 hours ago, BrendanL said:

I'm actually hearing:

"So if you see her tell her that I said hello"

I think this makes more sense in context with the following "she was my last hoorah and always got me stoned" line and you can hear Billie Joe sing "her" clearly in the live versions of the song. Check out @Admiral_Needa video of the Oakland gig for reference:

I always enjoy your insight and lyrical analyses, so what do you make of this subtle change?

First, thanks! For fixing me up and for the compliment.

Easy what I think. It always drove me a lil crazy that he said “him” because it didn’t fit in with the song but stupid Apple Music had me looking at their lyrics while listening session last night (an epic listening session btw where something clicked and sorry for posting like a mad man.  Could not help).

So what do I think about the change? I like it. I was truly asking what people thought about the “him” lyric thrown in there when the song is talking to a girl throughout so that was my guess but blame Apple Music.  it does say “him” but he didn’t change or flub the lyric, it clearly says “her” on the track. 

So I think the song is directly to nobody but Cobra. I’m sure of it.

Well I have a “We need a mis-read thread”. That is a great title to any song we make about this place. You see, this is why I hate fucking liner notes! Since I was a kid!

 

***Edit, it’s actually “him” and I think he says him and then her at that show. First show I didn’t know the lyrics well enough to even pay attention but listening now, it’s “him” 2x and he’s saying “Thanks for the Times jimmy but I have to go”. He doesn’t hate Jimmy.

His fondness for “her” is definitely a more seethed feeling.

18 hours ago, Jane Lannister said:

I think it makes sense that the she he's referencing is the one from the trilogy (whoever it is) and if there's a he, it's his own past self.

Agreed but it’s not “him”, (ON MY EDIT it actually is I think) he’s right. If it was his past self, if so I agree. That’s why I said St Jimmy referring to his past wild self which Jimmy is. Would have been a clever lyric actually. I’ll tell Billie to start letting me proof read. 

 

It’s lady Cobra. Don’t be pussies when you have the chance to go up and speak to Billie at these things, don’t just say some dumb ass super fan shit or he will pay you respect and be kind and tell you how wonderful it is to be with his real fans and shit but it’s gonna be the 10000th fan today response.

Go up and discuss lyrics of his with him privately and it’s amazing. That’s all I ever want to talk about when I have an opportunity to chat with him and he always loves it and always obliges and he wouldn’t, contrary to most of the people around here be offended if you asked him that question.

I have some questions but that ain’t one. It’s about Cobra.

[Beerjeezus]

1 hour ago, jengd said:

Sole/soul - typical Billie, could well be either and as we have no sleeve notes from him, we don't know - and then can't necessarily assume he spelt it correctly 

I hear "him" on the album but have noticed sometimes it could be "her" but again, wouldn't put it past him to mess with us and change it around.  

I love the sole/soul thing but I gave up on trying to figure out which one it is - both make sense and are equally good

I hear him too. 

[LaughingClock]

3 hours ago, jengd said:

Sole/soul - typical Billie, could well be either and as we have no sleeve notes from him, we don't know - and then can't necessarily assume he spelt it correctly 

I hear "him" on the album but have noticed sometimes it could be "her" but again, wouldn't put it past him to mess with us and change it around.  

You’re right and I just found out the Apple Music liner notes are off a little so I’m glad we’re back to ambaguity but he means both, as usual. Love it!

 

You know fuck the liner notes or not.  I am pretty sure that he actually means both in this one.  Often he slips one by but this is actually to be taken as both sentences.  Only Billie can continuously write layered complex emotional thoughts about deep feeling and make a double and triple and sometimes quadruple meaning in a seemingly benign nothing line.  I consider myself a poet and I am humbled so much by Billie's poeticalness and Jen, you said earlier, "he doesn't write pros" as you were talking about Christians Inferno, and I totally agree, I love how he bends words (like Eminem in a off way) to fit the song but the lyrics are definitely poetic and therefore pros as far as I'm concerned. I just wanted to disagree with you on ONE thing so you know I am not always just blowing smoke.  You are fucking awesome.  

[Beerjeezus]

12 minutes ago, LaughingClock said:

It’s lady Cobra. You guys. I’m not kidding. Don’t be pussies when you have the chance to go up and speak to Billie at these things, don’t just say some dumb ass super fan shit or he will pay you respect and be kind and tell you how wonderful it is to be with his real fans and shit but it’s gonna be the 10000th fan today response.

Go up and discuss lyrics of his with him privately and it’s amazing. That’s all I ever want to talk about when I have an opportunity to chat with him and he always loves it and always obliges and he wouldn’t, contrary to most of the people around here be offended if you asked him that question.

I have some questions but that ain’t one. It’s about Cobra.

I feel like this would make the most awkward fan/artist encounter ever 

[pacejunkie punk]

I would want to ask him whether Kill Your Friends is a fatalistic sarcastic response to domestic terrorism and gun control like I think it is. Even the title sounds like a twist on the phrase “kill your enemies” which you would say in a situation of war with another nation, but in a civil domestic situation you are killing your friends (kind of like the concept of friendly fire when a soldier is accidentally killed by someone on his own side which I’m surprised he didn’t try to work in the lyrics somehow)

Maybe it was too similar to Bang Bang and they decided not to save it for Green Day but other than that it sounds like the perfect GD song.  If this didn’t make the cut I can’t imagine what the album will sound like.

[LaughingClock]

39 minutes ago, Jane Lannister said:

I love the sole/soul thing but I gave up on trying to figure out which one it is - both make sense and are equally good

I hear him too. 

Me too. On the track he definitely does say him.

I just added an addendum to my post above. So fucking great. Remember when we first heard this and thought it was pure fluff? At least I did and I didn’t mind but Billie has a fucking way man.

This album is as lyrically prosed as anything else he writes. Same thing happened to me with RevRad.

IMHO, Billie is his best self right now. Ever.

Really enjoyed your thoughts on this one and I agree and said before the same. I said I actually have a boner for the GD stuff to come because this sounds as good or better than any GD stuff since well, I don’t know yet but years.

Ill say this, it better sound better because if not, well ....

[BrendanL]

2 hours ago, jengd said:

I hear "him" on the album but have noticed sometimes it could be "her" but again, wouldn't put it past him to mess with us and change it around.  

It certainly wouldn't be the first time he changes up lyrics from the studio to a live setting based on how he's feeling - "80" comes to mind.

39 minutes ago, LaughingClock said:

First, thanks! For fixing me up and for the compliment.

Easy what I think. It always drove me a lil crazy that he said “him” because it didn’t fit in with the song but stupid Apple Music had me looking at their lyrics while listening session last night (an epic listening session btw where something clicked and sorry for posting like a mad man.  Could not help).

So what do I think about the change? I like it. I was truly asking what people thought about the “him” lyric thrown in there when the song is talking to a girl throughout so that was my guess but blame Apple Music.  it does say “him” but he didn’t change or flub the lyric, it clearly says “her” on the track. 

So I think the song is directly to nobody but Cobra. I’m sure of it.

 

Cheers - yeah, there are definitely lyrical similarities between this and Lady Cobra. Man, just an all around great song. That particular verse we just discussed could have come straight out of Whatsername if you ask me.

I'd like to hear your thoughts on Cult Hero, as I think its one of the deeper songs lyrically on the record and probably my favorite as well 

 

[DookieLukie]

Why are we assuming this is Green Day music that didn't make the cut for the next album? In terms of selling alums, that makes sense. But Billie doesn't seem too worried about that. He probably wrote a bunch of songs under a similar concept. Doesn't mean they are b-sides.

[LaughingClock]

1 hour ago, Jane Lannister said:

I feel like this would make the most awkward fan/artist encounter ever 

But you're wrong.  I mean maybe not about Cobra but I discussed at length, a couple times on the RevRad tour about the drugs.  

Billie likes real people with real thoughts and real feelings. If you want to engage him, I'm saying, you should do it. Don't make it a average encounter.  I know you guys want to all speak to him and anyone going to these shows, this will be your best chance in your life so go ahead and do it but if you give him the cookie questions, he will be extraordinarily nice as he has been for years but if you want to engage him, you need to actually do that.  Some people are more introverted and I get it but not talking shop with BJA when able is nuts to me.

[AlissaGoesRAWR]

22 minutes ago, LaughingClock said:

But you're wrong.  I mean maybe not about Cobra but I discussed at length, a couple times on the RevRad tour about the drugs.  

Billie likes real people with real thoughts and real feelings. If you want to engage him, I'm saying, you should do it. Don't make it a average encounter.  I know you guys want to all speak to him and anyone going to these shows, this will be your best chance in your life so go ahead and do it but if you give him the cookie questions, he will be extraordinarily nice as he has been for years but if you want to engage him, you need to actually do that.  Some people are more introverted and I get it but not talking shop with BJA when able is nuts to me.

I think you're really overestimating the amount of time average concert-goers are going to get to spend with him on this tour... 

[The Grohl]

Most of the time I can't stay behind after a show. I have to go to work or just need to get home. 

[AlissaGoesRAWR]

4 minutes ago, kaylubd said:

Most of the time I can't stay behind after a show. I have to go to work or just need to get home. 

Most of the time I'm loitering on a street corner hoping to catch a glimpse of someone... but nothing happens. 

OK, except for in Detroit, when Billie came out to wave to us and told us he couldn't stay because he needed to go home... and then a crew member gave a bunch of us Tre's used drumsticks!  

[gaslight13]

52 minutes ago, LaughingClock said:

But you're wrong.  I mean maybe not about Cobra but I discussed at length, a couple times on the RevRad tour about the drugs.  

Billie likes real people with real thoughts and real feelings. If you want to engage him, I'm saying, you should do it. Don't make it a average encounter.  I know you guys want to all speak to him and anyone going to these shows, this will be your best chance in your life so go ahead and do it but if you give him the cookie questions, he will be extraordinarily nice as he has been for years but if you want to engage him, you need to actually do that.  Some people are more introverted and I get it but not talking shop with BJA when able is nuts to me.

 

28 minutes ago, AlissaGoesRAWR said:

I think you're really overestimating the amount of time average concert-goers are going to get to spend with him on this tour... 

I've done this before with artists that I've met but it usually only works when, as @AlissaGoesRAWR mentioned, you have more time with the artist. If you're the only one, or it's just a couple people and the artist is talkative, you can maybe get a good chat going that's not just "omg thank you!" and I agree that's WAY more rewarding. But if there's a bunch of people, and you try to get in more than like one or two questions/comments, then either you're going to get cut off by someone else or you're going to be hogging him while people who are more shy wait. Neither is good. I just hope he's able to say hello to people and that anyone who really wants to, gets a nice 30 seconds each with him. 

[Beerjeezus]

1 hour ago, LaughingClock said:

But you're wrong.  I mean maybe not about Cobra but I discussed at length, a couple times on the RevRad tour about the drugs.  

Billie likes real people with real thoughts and real feelings. If you want to engage him, I'm saying, you should do it. Don't make it a average encounter.  I know you guys want to all speak to him and anyone going to these shows, this will be your best chance in your life so go ahead and do it but if you give him the cookie questions, he will be extraordinarily nice as he has been for years but if you want to engage him, you need to actually do that.  Some people are more introverted and I get it but not talking shop with BJA when able is nuts to me.

Of course, if I ever got the chance to have a meaningful conversation, I totally would (and would love to). But at the same time, the usual after show "lots of people talking over each other/interrupting each other/competing for attention" isn't my thing and I doubt it's possible to actually talk to someone that way other than asking to have your stuff signed or whatever.

If I ever find myself locked in an elevator with him or something like that, I'll try discussing lyrics or philosophy or anything thought-provoking I can think of lol

[Chin for a Day]

After a show I just want to go home. It is usually past my bedtime.  

[The Grohl]

Just now, Grubby Poop said:

After a show I just want to go home. It is usually past my bedtime.  

I'm kind of in the same boat. I'm getting too old to wait around. If a band is at their merch booth after then I'll stick around. Granted, it doesn't happen with a band like Green Day, but it does at smaller shows.

[LaughingClock]

New revelation.

Never realized that Monster Mash and Mr. Postman are also pretty much the same progression so another song that matches the (after IWTHYH intro riff) goes into the progression of The Marvelette's "Mr. Postman" and "Monster Mash" by the Crypt Kickers.  Check it:

Just sing the chorus "this is the last time...(musical)...this is the last time" and change your tune with the chord changes and you will hear it quite easily.

For reference, go ahead and listen to Last Time.

Spoiler

 

Now sing the chorus of Last Time to this progression from the Marvelettes

Spoiler

 

Now sing the same chorus to Monster Mash which has the same exact progression but a different lyrical flow...I am LOVING just hearing sometimes just a bar with straight out homages to his influences and stuff.  It's so in your face that it's clear it was purposeful and I just love it.  The Last Time chorus sing with the progression changes once the song really kicks in (in this one you can really hear it in the chorus:

Spoiler

 

Also yesterday I noticed that (and it ended up in the misheard lyrics thread on an convo in there)

"Stay the Night" and "Chasing A Ghost" sound almost identical at most parts: (by the way, I see a lot of people calling it Chasing THE Ghost but it's Chasing A Ghost.  CAG.

Spoiler

 

 

[LaughingClock]

Happiness:

This is pretty easy to see but in case nobody has mentioned the genius of this phrase:

How lonely is "you're lonely"?
How lonely is "you're lonely"?
How alone is your restlessness?
I'll see you when the war is over
Someday when hell freezes over
How unhappy is your happiness?
 

First the idea of asking to metric your level of lonely by just asking "how lonely is your lonely" is a pretty cool way to ask "how lonely are you" to anyone.  Everyone can get lonely but someone's lonely is different than another's so the question is YOU ARE DEFINITELY LONELY but how lonely by comparison.  Proof of being alone is your birth certificate.

Then the line "How unhappy is your happiness" is brilliant because what it is really saying is the something but with two words that are absolute polar opposites.  Normal people don't think to write that down or come up with it.

"How unhappy is your happiness" is saying literally everyone always has some frustration, stress, anger, confusion in them.  The question is how unhappy is your happiness? Meaning if your happy, you still have some unhappiness in there but how much?  Not a normal way to quantify happiness but an interesting way of saying it.  Caught me as interesting and they say happiness comes in moments and it's true.  So when you are happy, how much unhappiness is laying below?

I think Billie is a buddhist at heart because everything he writes is about yin/yang philosophies.  He knows that sorrow and joy are the same and he knows that happiness is tied to unhappy.

3 hours ago, AlissaGoesRAWR said:

I think you're really overestimating the amount of time average concert-goers are going to get to spend with him on this tour... 

Not at all actually.  I know the game and there is a LOT less chance to try and get to a position where you can go speak to the band members and at a little pop up show vs a stadium or arena, your chances as an average fan in the crowd jump from about .1% at a stadium or arena to about 10% or higher (arbitrary but you get the point) at a small venue like these.

And since I know most people here would love the opportunity, I am saying, give it a shot.  He is a fascinating man to speak to and on the other hand, I was also saying IF you have the opportunity to, why not try and make it a nice conversation that intrigues him and makes him want to speak to you. He WILL speak about songs with fans.  I've seen it plenty of times.

I am not overestimating, I am just saying there is more of a chance for the "average concert-goer".  For example, there was that one idiot at the Costa Mesa show I think that was yelling "Drop your ego" after an incredible rendition of Stay The Night and Billie looked like WTF?! and the old Billie would have said something like "watch what my ego can do, throw this fucker out", or even jump in the crowd and punch him but the new Billie smiled at him and went into the next song.  So even on stage there are literal chances to be heard.  

So anyway, I didn't say, hey everyone go meet BJA and enjoy it.  I'm saying if you get the opportunity, be a person, not a fan.  Try and hold back and just collect yourself and speak to him.  If you just ask for a selfie and a hug, you'll get it and great but wouldn't you rather have an engaging conversation.  Ive been around the village after shows several times so I've watched this play out many times and I can tell you that it's about 1 in 50 people or less that actually come up to him and speak and try to engage a conversation and if you're not a fucking tool and have something to say, he WILL engage you.

Seems to me sound advice.  Then again, maybe you just want to hug him and give him a reach around. 

[LaughingClock]

3 hours ago, gaslight13 said:

 

I've done this before with artists that I've met but it usually only works when, as @AlissaGoesRAWR mentioned, you have more time with the artist. If you're the only one, or it's just a couple people and the artist is talkative, you can maybe get a good chat going that's not just "omg thank you!" and I agree that's WAY more rewarding. But if there's a bunch of people, and you try to get in more than like one or two questions/comments, then either you're going to get cut off by someone else or you're going to be hogging him while people who are more shy wait. Neither is good. I just hope he's able to say hello to people and that anyone who really wants to, gets a nice 30 seconds each with him. 

Fair enough, I hope that too. I am just saying.  I've watched it many times.  Even with tons of people around, if he finds someone he's jiving with, that person can get all the attention for a while and you become his focus while he's still meeting and greeting but interested in you. Believe me or don't but I promise.  Of course, you need to be affable and have something to say.  Anyway, somehow I can already see this somehow turning into a famous GDC weird thing where somehow I'm the bad guy when I'm just offering up some friendly advice that you can put in your trash bin and empty right away.  

I gave the Frustrators Troub show as an example in 2011.  If anyone knew that the show was 1/2 empty and there was like a 1/2 hour or more where Mike was running the march table and all I could think of is all the people here that would have flown in, paid $5000 and kiss a dead frog to be in the position to just sit there and hang with Mike like we were.  Even the people there were not really coming up to him and he is the most approachable of the three of them.  

Take or leave what I'm saying.

3 hours ago, Jane Lannister said:

Of course, if I ever got the chance to have a meaningful conversation, I totally would (and would love to). But at the same time, the usual after show "lots of people talking over each other/interrupting each other/competing for attention" isn't my thing and I doubt it's possible to actually talk to someone that way other than asking to have your stuff signed or whatever.

If I ever find myself locked in an elevator with him or something like that, I'll try discussing lyrics or philosophy or anything thought-provoking I can think of lol

Hahaha! Fair enough.  Find out where the ride is.  Go wait there.  There will only be 100s of people at these venues.  Half of them are friends of his and family and shit.  1/4 will just leave and then you have the rare opportunity where it's not like that at these shows.  200-300 people can certainly make a noise but speak to Bill, speak to any of the roadies.  Find out if there is an after party.  It's not hard, just do it.  He will finish, walk off stage to the tiny dressing room and that's where my advice on how to ambush Billie will end because it's not really something I am trying to convey.   It was simply if you look at my first post (god sometimes I really hate this place) IF YOU HAPPEN to find yourself in the position to speak to him, say something!  If it's a situation like you described than yeah, that's not what I'm saying.  I didn't say, hey everyone, you will all have a chance to go have an existential conversation with Billie so make sure you do it.

4 hours ago, kaylubd said:

Most of the time I can't stay behind after a show. I have to go to work or just need to get home. 

See, this is a normal person.  There are a lot of them and they leave.

[AlissaGoesRAWR]

56 minutes ago, LaughingClock said:

Seems to me sound advice.  Then again, maybe you just want to hug him and give him a reach around. 

In all seriousness, I guess what I meant is that you told everyone "don't be pussies" if they get a chance to talk with him, but honestly, the chance of that opportunity happening is so slim to begin with, I wouldn't blame someone if they were dumbfounded and didn't know what to say beyond the typical "you were great," "I really admire you," etc. comments.

Obviously, statistically speaking, the odds are greater at a show like this, especially since it's not an official Green Day show, but it's still such a rare encounter that no matter how much somebody prepares themselves, I wouldn't blame them if the nerves kicked in... 

I've said before that I'd much rather have a conversation than a photo with the man, but in reality I know my anxiety would kick in and I'd probably just stutter and walk away embarrassed.  

 

41 minutes ago, LaughingClock said:

I gave the Frustrators Troub show as an example in 2011.  If anyone knew that the show was 1/2 empty and there was like a 1/2 hour or more where Mike was running the march table and all I could think of is all the people here that would have flown in, paid $5000 and kiss a dead frog to be in the position to just sit there and hang with Mike like we were.  Even the people there were not really coming up to him and he is the most approachable of the three of them.  

Yeah, actually, forget the hug with Billie... honestly I'd rather have this... I'm going to miss Mike this tour. He's the best.  

[pacejunkie punk]

I’m gonna consider myself lucky if I just see him walk into the club from ten feet away headed to soundcheck and maybe get a group hi and a wave.  

[LaughingClock]

8 hours ago, AlissaGoesRAWR said:

Edit @AlissaGoesRAWR .. I saw I left a video and you want to know what I did? And @Hermione, you should see too. I removed it!  I am fucking insane aren’t I? Ha. Wuv you guys!

In all seriousness, I guess what I meant is that you told everyone "don't be pussies" if they get a chance to talk with him, but honestly, the chance of that opportunity happening is so slim to begin with, I wouldn't blame someone if they were dumbfounded and didn't know what to say beyond the typical "you were great," "I really admire you," etc. comments.

Obviously, statistically speaking, the odds are greater at a show like this, especially since it's not an official Green Day show, but it's still such a rare encounter that no matter how much somebody prepares themselves, I wouldn't blame them if the nerves kicked in... 

I've said before that I'd much rather have a conversation than a photo with the man, but in reality I know my anxiety would kick in and I'd probably just stutter and walk away embarrassed.  

 

Yeah, actually, forget the hug with Billie... honestly I'd rather have this... I'm going to miss Mike this tour. He's the best.  

First of all FUCKING HYSTERICAL gif.  That had me LOL by myself which is pretty rare.  

As for if you find yourself in the position, that's it, that's all I was saying and the "don't be pussies", I don't actually consider someone who would I guess clam up as you say you would, an actual scared person, I was just trying to bring it down to reality.  These are just men.  I know everyone looks at them as gods around here but they are very nice and highly approachable and BILLIE would rather have a good conversation with a fan about what it's like to be a Green Day fan (or what you think of the new stuff) than "OMG OMG OMG OMG please can I get a pick for my little sister, HOLY SHIT, can I have a picture for my Mom?". I swear I once saw someone ask them if he would leave their VM greeting on their phone.  HE DID.  But that's all I'm saying is if you want to have a conversation, and you find yourself in the position, do.  That is all I have on this subject now but good post Alissa.

 

 

8 hours ago, pacejunkie punk said:

I’m gonna consider myself lucky if I just see him walk into the club from ten feet away headed to soundcheck and maybe get a group hi and a wave.  

Shoot for the moon and land on the sun baby!  Oh wait.  What shows are you going to?  You gonna be there Monday?  I would like to meet you.  

[pacejunkie punk]

25 minutes ago, LaughingClock said:

 I swear I once saw someone ask them if he would leave their VM greeting on their phone.  HE DID.  

...

Shoot for the moon and land on the sun baby!  Oh wait.  What shows are you going to?  You gonna be there Monday?  I would like to meet you.  

Omg what a sweetheart. I feel bad for the people and things he must have to suffer sonetimes but I’m glad he’s so good natured about his fellow weirdos. After all he’s one of us 🙂

I’ll be at DC and Philly so if it works out would love to say hi 👋