Eyeliner Collab Billie & Kat VonD

[amberwhite]

2 hours ago, IcyMoffatt said:

I don't know if it has already been mentioned in this thread, but the photoshoot is totaly inspired by the movie Sid and Nancy. No doubt about it.
Take a look at this:
 

Just an fyi: that's the real Sid & Nancy, not Gary Oldman and Chloe Webb from the movie.

And yes, shirtless for authenticity. 

[Hero_Of_The_Hour]

I'll never understand why people continue to glorify Sid and Nancy. Particularly Sid Vicious. I mean they aren't exactly representative of a cool punk couple but rather a tragic story of excess ending in murder and death. Weird choice to emulate for a photoshoot. 

[amberwhite]

2 minutes ago, Hero_Of_The_Hour said:

I'll never understand why people continue to glorify Sid and Nancy. Particularly Sid Vicious. I mean they aren't exactly representative of a cool punk couple but rather a tragic story of excess ending in murder and death. Weird choice to emulate for a photoshoot. 

Alleged murder.

[gaslight13]

51 minutes ago, pacejunkie punk said:

I think they should have done a few shirtless ones if they were really going for the look. 😉

I wonder if they asked him to and he said no. 

[Hero_Of_The_Hour]

6 minutes ago, amberwhite said:

Alleged murder.

In fairness they could hardly put him on trial when he was dead. However it is more than a little weird that anyone, drug dealers etc would randomly come into their room, kill Nancy in the bathroom but leave Sid alive in the bedroom. The case was closed when Sid overdosed obviously but the circumstances make for a very negative impression of him/their relationship. 

[pacejunkie punk]

I was obsessed with their story and that movie when it came out. The movie portrays them as almost a punk Romeo and Juliet, a tragic love story of two very lost, troubled souls. However their end came, it was never going to end well.

[Hero_Of_The_Hour]

8 minutes ago, pacejunkie punk said:

I was obsessed with their story and that movie when it came out. The movie portrays them as almost a punk Romeo and Juliet, a tragic love story of two very lost, troubled souls. However their end came, it was never going to end well.

I didn't watch that movie so I don't know how they romanticised the relationship but I know that factually Nancy was murdered. She didn't choose to end her life. She was only 20. Sid choose his fate because he wasn't murdered. He had the opportunity to decide his own fate and choose death over potentially a lengthy prison sentence. I have no doubt that the movie probably inferred that he killed himself to be with Nancy. How romantic. That is hardly the same as Romeo and Juliet who were star crossed lovers who both took their own lives to be together in death because they couldn't be in life. For what it was worth Sid and Nancy were very much together in life living a co-dependant drug fuelled existence with some reports saying punctuated by domestic violence by both parties. It's exactly the kind of relationships people should be warned to get out of not the kind that should be falsely glorified. 

20 minutes ago, pacejunkie punk said:

However their end came, it was never going to end well.

This. I think this is absolutely the most important point. 

[amberwhite]

4 minutes ago, Hero_Of_The_Hour said:

I didn't watch that movie so I don't know how they romanticised the relationship but I know that factually Nancy was murdered. She didn't choose to end her life. She was only 20. 

Unless you were in the room with them you can't say that Nancy was murdered. I recommend the book her mom wrote "And I don't want to live this life" by Debbie Spungeon for insite on her life and mental and emotional struggles.

[Hero_Of_The_Hour]

18 minutes ago, amberwhite said:

Unless you were in the room with them you can't say that Nancy was murdered. I recommend the book her mom wrote "And I don't want to live this life" by Debbie Spungeon for insite on her life and mental and emotional struggles.

Her mother wasn't in the room with them either so reading the book will bring no further clarity on the issue. I have no doubt she had mental and emotional struggles. They're well documented. Sid was hardly a well adjusted, stable individual. They were both heavily addicted to drugs on top of their mental problems. However she was stabbed to death with Sid's knife in a room with just him in it which is awfully suspicious and he initially confessed before retracting his statement. I mean no shit Sherlock, you mean it wasn't some random dude who broke in, killed the girl but left the guy alive? Or it wasn't Nancy who killed herself in the most elaborate way (and uncomfortable way- under a sink) possible using Sid's knife so as to pin the blame on him despite supposedly loving him? 

Just out of curiosity @amberwhite If you don't think it was murder/if you don't think Sid was involved what do you think happened? 

[amberwhite]

12 minutes ago, Hero_Of_The_Hour said:

Her mother wasn't in the room with them either so reading the book will bring no further clarity on the issue. I have no doubt she had mental and emotional struggles. They're well documented. Sid was hardly a well adjusted, stable individual. They were both heavily addicted to drugs on top of their mental problems. However she was stabbed to death with Sid's knife in a room with just him in it which is awfully suspicious and he initially confessed before retracting his statement. I mean no shit Sherlock, you mean it wasn't some random dude who broke in, killed the girl but left the guy alive? Or it wasn't Nancy who killed herself in the most elaborate way (and uncomfortable way- under a sink) possible using Sid's knife so as to pin the blame on him despite supposedly loving him? 

Just out of curiosity @amberwhite If you don't think it was murder/if you don't think Sid was involved what do you think happened? 

I don't know what happened so I can't say she was murdered. It could have been an accident. 

 

Trying to steer this back on topic ( kind of ): Billie's "St. Jimmy" costume kind of reminds me of the outfit Sid wore for the "My Way" segment of "The Great Rock and Roll Swindle".

[The Bellie]

9 hours ago, pacejunkie punk said:

I think they should have done a few shirtless ones if they were really going for the look. 😉

9 hours ago, gaslight13 said:

I wonder if they asked him to and he said no. 

Billie didn't go shirtless during this tour for us fans in the audience, I don't mind him not doing it in front of photographers.  It seems plausible to me that he would have declined. Anyways, I wouldn't want him to feel forced to do it  even though I don't care so much about shirtless Sid Vicious than I would about current Billie shirtless, there's some age difference  and that could have contributed to Billie preferring keeping that t-shirt. And even if they got inspired by that photo of Sid and Nancy, Billie and Kat are not lovers. 

9 hours ago, Hero_Of_The_Hour said:

I'll never understand why people continue to glorify Sid and Nancy. Particularly Sid Vicious. I mean they aren't exactly representative of a cool punk couple but rather a tragic story of excess ending in murder and death. Weird choice to emulate for a photoshoot. 

I know just a little about Sid Vicious, I read about him in a book about main figures of punk, along with the Ramones notably. Well, the Ramones' story as well was far from ideal, yet they'll keep a glorified place in the punk memory. Green Day for example have often mentioned the Ramones but I don't recall them speaking of their dark side. I think the the same goes for Sid, his story with Nancy must have been something for their fans to fantasize about.

[IcyMoffatt]

9 hours ago, amberwhite said:

Just an fyi: that's the real Sid & Nancy, not Gary Oldman and Chloe Webb from the movie.

And yes, shirtless for authenticity. 

I knew the movie was a biopic, but I wasn't sure if the picture was from the movie. I never watched the movie and the picture was always poping up in the search result. Sorry for the confusion and thank you for clarification.

[gaslight13]

2 hours ago, Kuromignonne said:

Billie didn't go shirtless during this tour for us fans in the audience, I don't mind him not doing it in front of photographers.  It seems plausible to me that he would have declined. Anyways, I wouldn't want him to feel forced to do it  even though I don't care so much about shirtless Sid Vicious than I would about current Billie shirtless, there's some age difference  and that could have contributed to Billie preferring keeping that t-shirt. And even if they got inspired by that photo of Sid and Nancy, Billie and Kat are not lovers. 

I agree and you make some good points. I hope his shirtless in public days aren’t over though! There are plenty of dudes older and less appealing than him who have no problem with it so...

[Hero_Of_The_Hour]

2 hours ago, Kuromignonne said:

Billie didn't go shirtless during this tour for us fans in the audience, I don't mind him not doing it in front of photographers.  It seems plausible to me that he would have declined. Anyways, I wouldn't want him to feel forced to do it  even though I don't care so much about shirtless Sid Vicious than I would about current Billie shirtless, there's some age difference  and that could have contributed to Billie preferring keeping that t-shirt. And even if they got inspired by that photo of Sid and Nancy, Billie and Kat are not lovers. 

I know just a little about Sid Vicious, I read about him in a book about main figures of punk, along with the Ramones notably. Well, the Ramones' story as well was far from ideal, yet they'll keep a glorified place in the punk memory. Green Day for example have often mentioned the Ramones but I don't recall them speaking of their dark side. I think the the same goes for Sid, his story with Nancy must have been something for their fans to fantasize about.

When Green Day mention the Ramones they talk about their music or musical influence. The Ramones "glorified place in punk memory" is such because of their music not because of their personal lives. The whole Sid and Nancy thing was their personal lives. Their relationship did not contribute to punk music and for what it's worth Sid was hospitalised with hepatitis during the Sex Pistols recording of Never Mind The Bollocks and he only recorded on one track. So his overall contribution to punk is minimal. He's the leather jacket on a coat hanger that John Lydon accused Green Day of being. 

[Hermione]

24 minutes ago, Hero_Of_The_Hour said:

When Green Day mention the Ramones they talk about their music or musical influence. The Ramones "glorified place in punk memory" is such because of their music not because of their personal lives. The whole Sid and Nancy thing was their personal lives. Their relationship did not contribute to punk music and for what it's worth Sid was hospitalised with hepatitis during the Sex Pistols recording of Never Mind The Bollocks and he only recorded on one track. So his overall contribution to punk is minimal. He's the leather jacket on a coat hanger that John Lydon accused Green Day of being. 

True but image is part of punk too, like the Ramones didn't only make music but also had an iconic look. Sid Vicious didn't contribute much to music but the image of him and Nancy is part of the history of punk style/fashion. It's a striking photo and an example of punk style at the time, it's being copied in an ad for eyeliner because it's an iconic/cool looking photo, not because they're saying the people in it were great.

[Hero_Of_The_Hour]

15 minutes ago, Hermione said:

True but image is part of punk too, like the Ramones didn't only make music but also had an iconic look. Sid Vicious didn't contribute much to music but the image of him and Nancy is part of the history of punk style/fashion. It's a striking photo and an example of punk style at the time, it's being copied in an ad for eyeliner because it's an iconic/cool looking photo, not because they're saying the people in it were great.

Yeah but in that sense the thing about punk is that everyone who goes to shows is part of the history of punk. The clothes that the people at the shows wore was part of the history. The photographers at the gigs were as important as the band they photographed and the photos of the crowds were as iconic as any photos of band members and certainly represented the punk style of whatever time was being photographed. Aaron Cometbus gave a very interesting lecture on this topic called The Stage Is Just A Diving Board. 

[The Grohl]

Am I the only one who hated the Sid and Nancy movie? I've seen it twice and can't stand it. 

Back to the topic: hope we get some more news on this line soon!

Also, just found this article...fits in with the topic

https://www.wmagazine.com/gallery/guyliner-celebrities-billie-joe-armstrong

[gaslight13]

33 minutes ago, kaylubd said:

Also, just found this article...fits in with the topic

https://www.wmagazine.com/gallery/guyliner-celebrities-billie-joe-armstrong

This is cringeworthy in so many ways. I'm appalled that they called him an "aging rock star". He's 45 not 65. Also, I really don't think he's capitalizing on any fad. Fad implies that there are a lot of (or honestly, ANY) other people doing it. And this nonsense about how someone else should be the face of "guyliner". Billie's been wearing eyeliner since before it was a thing and long after. If anyone's earned the credibility to do this without looking like he's just cashing in on nostalgia it's him. The amount of scheming some of these articles suspect is amazing. She probably just hit him up, said "I've got an idea" and he said "cool, sounds fun, I'm down". 

[The Grohl]

It amazes me that people can turn any nonsense into an article. It reminds me of those articles that proclaim X BAND'S NEXT ALBUM and they managed to make an entire story about an Instagram post where the band says they'll be hitting up the studio soon. Dumb.

[amberwhite]

1 hour ago, kaylubd said:

Am I the only one who hated the Sid and Nancy movie? I've seen it twice and can't stand it. 

Back to the topic: hope we get some more news on this line soon!

Also, just found this article...fits in with the topic

https://www.wmagazine.com/gallery/guyliner-celebrities-billie-joe-armstrong

I was so impressed with Gary Oldman's performance,  he really nailed it.

On topic: when is this coming out? My friend at Sephora hadn't heard anything about it.

[The Grohl]

6 minutes ago, amberwhite said:

I was so impressed with Gary Oldman's performance,  he really nailed it.

On topic: when is this coming out? My friend at Sephora hadn't heard anything about it.

I'll admit, he was good. But I couldn't stand Nancy and some of the scenes I found boring. 

[amberwhite]

2 hours ago, kaylubd said:

I'll admit, he was good. But I couldn't stand Nancy and some of the scenes I found boring. 

Courtney Love auditioned for the role and I think she would have done a better job.

[The Bellie]

6 hours ago, Hero_Of_The_Hour said:

When Green Day mention the Ramones they talk about their music or musical influence. The Ramones "glorified place in punk memory" is such because of their music not because of their personal lives. The whole Sid and Nancy thing was their personal lives. Their relationship did not contribute to punk music and for what it's worth Sid was hospitalised with hepatitis during the Sex Pistols recording of Never Mind The Bollocks and he only recorded on one track. So his overall contribution to punk is minimal. He's the leather jacket on a coat hanger that John Lydon accused Green Day of being. 

I see your point, but to put it another way, your reaction to what collective imaginary may have put in the Sid / Nancy story, reminds me a bit of my own reaction when I first heard / read Green Day talking about the Ramones, after having read that punk encyclopedia. I was surprised that they were speaking really good about the Ramones, not only about their music but also about their ways of living and of being together as a band, while I had got a rather negative opinion of the Ramones precisely because of what I read about their relationships as bandmates - particularly in comparison to what I knew about Green Day's. So I realize there may not be just one side of the story, or one way to see the story (whoever's story).

[jengd]

I love what we have seen of the photo shoot so far and think it’s cool that they took that pic of Sid  and Nancy as inspiration but that’s all it is.  They were a flawed and sad couple.  As a young teenager of the time - whose memory may be flawed - I think a lot about the first coming of punk, particularly in the UK, has been romanticised with time.  They were harsh times.

[Hero_Of_The_Hour]

3 minutes ago, Kuromignonne said:

I see your point, but to put it another way, your reaction to what collective imaginary may have put in the Sid / Nancy story, reminds me a bit of my own reaction when I first heard / read Green Day talking about the Ramones, after having read that punk encyclopedia. I was surprised that they were speaking really good about the Ramones, not only about their music but also about their ways of living and of being together as a band, while I had got a rather negative opinion of the Ramones precisely because of what I read about their relationships as bandmates - particularly in comparison to what I knew about Green Day's. So I realize there may not be just one side of the story, or one way to see the story (whoever's story).

The relationships between the band members in the Ramones is irrelevant to their musical legacy. The Ramones were a band who played music. Their music is what has secured their place so firmly in music history and in the hearts and minds of generations of fans. The Ramones did not secure their place in history due to their dramatic personal relationships with one another like Sid and Nancy. I mean that's like comparing Paris Hilton with U2 or something.  One is a poser who thinks they an occasional musician but mostly just a poser who's famous for showing up (Sid) and the other is a band. Sorry not sorry.