Songs about Amanda

[Billie Joes Eyelids]

Wow, I'm actually very thankful for this conversation. It clears up a lot that I've wondered about thanks to people who are much more knowledgable than me about Billie's history. Even though these topics are personal, I think they're very important as far as fully understanding his songwriting. I feel like I understand everything a lot better now. Of course there will always be mysteries because Billie is Billie.

[Hero_Of_The_Hour]

1 hour ago, Montclare said:

There's also a Rolling Stones song, Miss Amanda Jones.  Possible connection?

Just pulled out the book- Erica said first she went to Europe and then Nicaragua.  So it's a pattern that when someone breaks up with Billie that they go to Central America.  

Yes! He's that annoying apparently  I remember her saying she couldn't escape him even on a mountain in Nicaragua where she couldn't get running water or something like that because Green Day became huge and were playing on her battery operated radio  

9 minutes ago, neverdone2000 said:

Wow, I'm actually very thankful for this conversation. It clears up a lot that I've wondered about thanks to people who are much more knowledgable than me about Billie's history. Even though these topics are personal, I think they're very important as far as fully understanding his songwriting. I feel like I understand everything a lot better now. Of course there will always be mysteries because Billie is Billie.

Do you mean like the mystery of Zeke? See now that's a good one that's never going to be solved 

[TimmyChunks]

On ‎6‎/‎24‎/‎2017 at 8:33 PM, Hero_Of_The_Hour said:

Erica was Billie's first proper girlfriend and they met in Gilman and were a couple from when Billie was 16 until after the tour in 1991. She was interviewed in a Green Day book and is credited as a photographer in some of their discographies. She was known as the first Green Day fan because she used to listen to their first ever demos. She's the sister of Mike Pelino who was their touring guitarist during American Idiot tour and she's the sister-in-law of Janna White, Jason's wife! Back when she was dating Billie he wrote Christie Road for her and when Billie was 17 and homeless she also used to stay in the warehouse with him above the brothel which inspired Welcome To Paradise. This is another interesting fact which was backed up by Bill Schneider in the book and makes sense because Billie was living in a warehouse at 17/18. However he lived in various houses after that including the "house o toast" with Aaron Cometbus and now claims that he and Adrienne were only penpals until she moved to california after the release of Dookie. Oddly however he has claimed Adrienne visited him in the warehouse. Wtf?! She would have had to have known him aged 17. It's impossible. I don't get why he says this stuff. Clearly it was Erica who stayed with him in the warehouse. She and Bill said it and the timeline makes sense. I swear Billie talks so much shit. 

Hmmm...I've never tried to put the timeline together myself but I heard firsthand that they met while he was on tour in Minnesota. I guess we could find out when GD was first there (guessing '91/92) and do the math, which would have meant he was 19 or 20 at the time. Maybe the warehouse thing is revisionist history or they visited the spot together after he had moved out? Maybe he still had friends there to visit or they just stopped by so he could show her his old digs (typical new boyfriend stuff)? Honestly, they've been all over the world a lot and experienced a ton in the last 25+ years, so I forgive a little revisionist/ blurring of history in his songwriting and interviews. And funny point about talking shit- I'm totally guessing here, but I suppose he probably "makes up" some of the early days recollection on the fly. I'm younger than he is and haven't toured the world and been a huge rock star the last 25 years, and I remember about 10% of what I was doing in my late teens accurately. When my friends and I get together and talk about the "old" days I'm sure there's plenty of embellishment and selective memory taking place!

[unextraordinarygirl]

I read or heard somewhere that they met on tour in Minneapolis in 1990 and Billie was 18 and Adrienne was 20 or 21. 

[Hero_Of_The_Hour]

1 minute ago, TimmyChunks said:

Hmmm...I've never tried to put the timeline together myself but I heard firsthand that they met while he was on tour in Minnesota. I guess we could find out when GD was first there (guessing '91/92) and do the math, which would have meant he was 19 or 20 at the time. Maybe the warehouse thing is revisionist history or they visited the spot together after he had moved out? Maybe he still had friends there to visit or they just stopped by so he could show her his old digs (typical new boyfriend stuff)? Honestly, they've been all over the world a lot and experienced a ton in the last 25+ years, so I forgive a little revisionist/ blurring of history in his songwriting and interviews. And funny point about talking shit- I'm totally guessing here, but I suppose he probably "makes up" some of the early days recollection on the fly. I'm younger than he is and haven't toured the world and been a huge rock star the last 25 years, and I remember about 10% of what I was doing in my late teens accurately. When my friends and I get together and talk about the "old" days I'm sure there's plenty of embellishment and selective memory taking place!

We've all done lots of travelling, maybe not as much as Billie, we've all had lots of different life experiences and different partners etc but when you tweet about your wife coming to stay with you in the warehouse you lived in when you were 17/18, then write a song about it (Sweet 16) but then contradict an interviewer who suggests you were even dating the woman before she moved to California it doesn't add up. Especially since the exact thing you previously claimed to have done with your wife (staying in a warehouse together) before it logically could have made sense (he hadn't met her yet) another woman had claimed you did with her YEARS before you ever publicly mentioned it!! 

In short Billies new version makes sense. He wasn't actually dating Adrienne before she moved to California. He had two OTHER girlfriends like he stated to Howard Stern. One of whom was the woman he actually did live in the warehouse with. After the crushing split with Amanda which left him suicidal, not something that tends to happen to somebody who has another girlfriend in a different state anyway, he then obviously began dating Adrienne. It's not rocket science. He actually stated it to Stern.

[pacejunkie punk]

9 minutes ago, unextraordinarygirl said:

I read or heard somewhere that they met on tour in Minneapolis in 1990 and Billie was 18 and Adrienne was 20 or 21. 

I heard that too, I think he said that in a VH1 Behind the Music thing in the late 90's. Tre said that after that he kept trying to find ways to put Minnesota on their list of tour dates. Adrienne was in it too and said they met when she went up to him after the show and asked how to get a 7" copy of their EP so they exchanged numbers. It was their first tour.

This is actually consistent with what he's said--they met when he was 18, he was living in the warehouse then and she did go out to visit him there. There's a photo of the two of them from 1990 that was taken in Oakland. I just saw it in a magazine scan in another thread here (Green Day photos I think).

[Hero_Of_The_Hour]

Just now, pacejunkie punk said:

I heard that too, I think he said that in a VH1 Behind the Music thing in the late 90's. Tre said that after that he kept trying to find ways to put Minnesota on their list of tour dates. Adrienne was in it too and said they met when she went up to him after the show and asked how to get a 7" copy of their EP so they exchanged numbers. It was their first tour.

But Billie had a girlfriend, Adrienne was engaged and even after Billie split with Erica he then began dating Amanda whom he only split with before Dookie was released in '94. None of which is mentioned in any of these documentaries. Oh and Billie now is adamant that he did not date Adrienne until she moved to California and that they were just "penpals".  

[pacejunkie punk]

4 minutes ago, Hero_Of_The_Hour said:

But Billie had a girlfriend, Adrienne was engaged and even after Billie split with Erica he then began dating Amanda whom he only split with before Dookie was released in '94. None of which is mentioned in any of these documentaries. Oh and Billie now is adamant that he did not date Adrienne until she moved to California and that they were just "penpals".  

I'm guessing Adrienne is partly the reason he and Erica broke up. Then when he and Adrienne lost touch for a bit in 92-93, he was seeing Amanda. But that didn't mean he didn't want to be with her, it just seemed like an impossibility. It's a case of "if you can't be with the one you love, love the one you're with."

[Hero_Of_The_Hour]

Just now, pacejunkie punk said:

I'm guessing Adrienne is partbof the reason he and Erica broke up. Then when he and Adrienne lost touch for a bit in 92-93, he was seeing Amanda. But that didn't mean he didn't want to be with her, it just seemed like an impossibility. It's a case of "if you can't be with the one you love, love the one you're with."

So why do you think Billie is now saying he didn't date Adrienne before she moved to California? 

Also he was dating Amanda until '94 and given what he said in '95 and the influence she continues to have on his songwriting I doubt his love was anything but genuine. It was hardly making do while pining for something better. The guy wanted to kill himself when she dumped him. He clearly thought there was no reason to live!

[pacejunkie punk]

6 minutes ago, Hero_Of_The_Hour said:

So why do you think Billie is now saying he didn't date Adrienne before she moved to California? 

Also he was dating Amanda until '94 and given what he said in '95 and the influence she continues to have on his songwriting I doubt his love was anything but genuine. It was hardly making do while pining for something better. The guy wanted to kill himself when she dumped him. He clearly thought there was no reason to live!

Because they weren't technically dating, they were long distance so they couldn't. It was phone calls and the occasional visit, but by the songs he was writing since they met show he was clearly pining for her.

I thought Amanda dumped him in 93 when they signed with Warner Brothers. That was the thing she was most against and didn't want him to do. As for the suicidal part, I gave my thoughts on that earlier -- Billie was going through a lot of turmoil at that time. Signing with a major label open some doors to them but at the cost of Gilman, their friends, his girlfriend. It was a lot of loss and something he wasn't well equipped to handle. He didn't know it was going to turn out so well but one of the first things he did was try to solidify a relationship with Adrienne to have something to ground him.

[Billie Joes Eyelids]

16 minutes ago, Hero_Of_The_Hour said:

But Billie had a girlfriend, Adrienne was engaged and even after Billie split with Erica he then began dating Amanda whom he only split with before Dookie was released in '94. None of which is mentioned in any of these documentaries. Oh and Billie now is adamant that he did not date Adrienne until she moved to California and that they were just "penpals".  

I thought we had this settled. 😂 There is evidence sited earlier in this thread that there were feelings between Billie and Adrienne but that they lost touch, probably partly because of distance and Amanda. Also, Adrienne stated in a documentary that Billie talked her into moving to CA with the promise of marriage. I don't think she would move across the country to be with someone who was just a pen pal. So I'm sure there was more to it than that.

[Hero_Of_The_Hour]

Just now, pacejunkie punk said:

Because they weren't technically dating, they were ling distance so they couldn't. It was phone calls and the occasional visit, but by the songs he was writing since they met he was clearly pining for her.

I thought Amanda dumped him in 93 when they signed with Warner Brothers. That was the thing she was most against and didn't want him to do. As for the suicidal part, I gave my thoughts on that earlier -- Billie was going through a lot of turmoil at that time. Signing with a major label open some doors to them but at the cost of Gilman, their friends, his girlfriend. It was a lot of loss and something he wasn't well equipped to handle. He didn't know it was going to turn out so well but one of the first things he did was try to solidify a relationship with Adrienne to have something to ground him.

I'm sorry but your "opinion" on why he was suicidal is irrelevant. Billie already stated he was suicidal because he was dumped by Amanda. End of story. Billie also stated it was "right before Dookie came out". Billie also stated he wasn't dating Adrienne because they had their own things going on. I'm fairly sure that's an exact quote. He never said anything about occasional visits or anything else. He was straightforward for once. Adrienne was engaged. She had her life. He had girlfriends. So he had his. Simple.

2 minutes ago, neverdone2000 said:

I thought we had this settled. 😂 There is evidence sited earlier in this thread that there were feelings between Billie and Adrienne but that they lost touch, probably partly because of distance and Amanda. Also, Adrienne stated in a documentary that Billie talked her into moving to CA with the promise of marriage. I don't think she would move across the country to be with someone who was just a pen pal. So I'm sure there was more to it than that.

 

Fuck it. Everybody just stop...go listen to Howard Stern. Then come back. For the love of god. 

[Caroline Truong]

4 hours ago, Hero_Of_The_Hour said:

I read way too much 

But why pick a random song/song title out of nowhere that coincidentally happens to have the name Amanda in it? I think it's still pretty obvious he's referencing Amanda. Hell the first time he choose to properly name Amanda was on the trilogy in the song Amanda and then we also get the Amanda reference in Fuck Time. No way that's a dumb coincidence. 

Remember this is a guy who wrote a fucking rock opera about "whatsername" etc  

you and I  read and heard  too much..

You make perfect sense about the song "Amanda" is really about "real Amanda" and whatsername is about same girl

I think "fuck time" is just about "fucking" I don't really know if about Amanda, it is in general

[Stewe]

On 24/6/2017 at 3:50 AM, Hero_Of_The_Hour said:

Billie told Howard Stern (when he also explained that WICA isn't about Adrienne) that he didn't begin a relationship with Adrienne until she moved to California. He described them as sort of penpals. There is a Spin magazine article in which Billie explains that he was suicidal after his split with Amanda (she dumped him) and it inspired Armitage Shanks. This happened, according to Billie, right before Dookie came out in 1994. If he felt suicidal during/following the split he obviously loved Amanda, she wasn't just some girl he was dating. Just saying.

edit. Found the quote

Though Armstrong's melodies are as bubblicious as ever, and Insomniac  sounds even leaner than it's predecessor, the growing pains of the past couple of years are felt throughout. Take "Armitage Shanks" for example, the opening track on Insomniac. "When I wrote that song", says Armstrong, "It was right before Dookie came out and I was really at odds with myself. I was like man do I really want to do this? A lot of time I was thinking about suicide, how it's so easy to kill yourself, but it's so hard to stay alive. I was in a break-up with my then girlfriend, a total, raving punk rocker who didn't approve of me being on a major label. She moved down to Ecuador saying she couldn't live in a world with McDonald's and such. It was fucking me up pretty bad."

Did you know where I can find the entire interview?

[Hero_Of_The_Hour]

3 hours ago, Caroline Truong said:

you and I  read and heard  too much..

You make perfect sense about the song "Amanda" is really about "real Amanda" and whatsername is about same girl

I think "fuck time" is just about "fucking" I don't really know if about Amanda, it is in general

Well we know Whatsername is Amanda because Billie said she was. Obviously the song Amanda is therefore about the same Amanda as Whatsername and it would be completely bizarre if he randomly happened to drop the name Amanda into Fuck Time without it being about the same woman he's written a rock opera (which became a Broadway musical in which he starred) and a tonne of other songs over three decades. There are other womens names in the world if he just wanted a random song about fucking. I think he pretty much covered that on the trilogy 

1 minute ago, Stewe said:

Did you know where I can find the entire interview?

Sorry. Maybe someone else can help you out. I have it downloaded in a huge file somewhere on my laptop from ages ago.

[Hermione]

You guys know no one except the people involved actually knows the exact details and status of all these relationships at every moment during all these years right? Just because we have some vague details of when people were together from interviews it does mean we can assert that they were definitely together during a particular month/week/day. It's not as simple as putting a puzzle together from different people mentioning the times they got together or broke up, relationships can be a lot more complicated than that. I mean it's interesting to hear the story and little details about it and who inspired different songs etc when they talk about it in interviews but if you think we can get a timeline that's complete and accurate enough to start judging anything about the people involved or their states of mind from it it's not going to happen. The only information about how they were feeling or why they did things we have is the information they've shared in interviews, we can't work out extra stuff from an incomplete timeline.

[Hero_Of_The_Hour]

6 minutes ago, Hermione said:

You guys know no one except the people involved actually knows the exact details and status of all these relationships at every moment during all these years right? Just because we have some vague details of when people were together from interviews it does mean we can assert that they were definitely together during a particular month/week/day. It's not as simple as putting a puzzle together from different people mentioning the times they got together or broke up, relationships can be a lot more complicated than that. I mean it's interesting to hear the story and little details about it and who inspired different songs etc when they talk about it in interviews but if you think we can get a timeline that's complete and accurate enough to start judging anything about the people involved or their states of mind from it it's not going to happen. The only information about how they were feeling or why they did things we have is the information they've shared in interviews, we can't work out extra stuff from an incomplete timeline.

Or to put it more simply don't even bother trying to work out timelines because everyone involved keeps changing their own version of events dramatically. Also Zeke 

[GreenDayTheory]

8 hours ago, Montclare said:

 

Just pulled out the book- Erica said first she went to Europe and then Nicaragua.  So it's a pattern that when someone breaks up with Billie that they go to Central America.  

Really though??Is Erica secretly Amanda??(just joking so chill out)

[Hermione]

26 minutes ago, Hero_Of_The_Hour said:

Well we know Whatsername is Amanda because Billie said she was. Obviously the song Amanda is therefore about the same Amanda as Whatsername and it would be completely bizarre if he randomly happened to drop the name Amanda into Fuck Time without it being about the same woman he's written a rock opera (which became a Broadway musical in which he starred) and a tonne of other songs over three decades. There are other womens names in the world if he just wanted a random song about fucking. I think he pretty much covered that on the trilogy 

 

I dunno, the name Amanda was never in the original version of the song and I think it was pretty much just written about "fucking" since it was basically written to amuse the AI cast as a reference to their tradition of saying "it's fuck time!" before the show. It's not just a random name and it might be that he decided it could relate to her but at least part of the reason for adding it could have been to tie the song into the albums. Kind of like how singing from the POV of being 17 at one point in WMUWSE (7 years has gone so fast) was partly done to tie that song into that album by singing from the POV of the album's protagonist's age.

[GreenDayTheory]

4 minutes ago, Hermione said:

I dunno, the name Amanda was never in the original version of the song and I think it was pretty much just written about "fucking" since it was basically written to amuse the AI cast as a reference to their tradition of saying "it's fuck time!" before the show. It's not just a random name and it might be that he decided it could relate to her but at least part of the reason for adding it could have been to tie the song into the albums. Kind of like how singing from the POV of being 17 at one point in WMUWSE (7 years has gone so fast) was partly done to tie that song into that album by singing from the protagonists age.

The name reference in F*ck Time is just to make it relate in the album but why not Lady Cobra's Name??

[Hero_Of_The_Hour]

9 minutes ago, Hermione said:

I dunno, the name Amanda was never in the original version of the song and I think it was pretty much just written about "fucking" since it was basically written to amuse the AI cast as a reference to their tradition of saying "it's fuck time!" before the show. It's not just a random name and it might be that he decided it could relate to her but at least part of the reason for adding it could have been to tie the song into the albums. Kind of like how singing from the POV of being 17 at one point in WMUWSE (7 years has gone so fast) was partly done to tie that song into that album by singing from the protagonists age.

On Broadway idiot he explained that the part about 7 years have gone so fast was about moving out on his own at 17.

There is only one song about Amanda, that we are aware of specifically, on the trilogy and it's not even on Dos, so why would he be trying to tie Fuck Time into the album that hasn't come out yet by referencing Amanda? If that's all he was doing he could have used Ashley. There is nothing to tie it to! It's not a rock opera. It's an album about partying etc. Not an album about Amanda.

6 minutes ago, GreenDayTheory said:

The name reference in F*ck Time is just to make it relate in the album but why not Lady Cobra's Name??

Completely overlooked this one!! Exactly! 

[Hermione]

36 minutes ago, Hero_Of_The_Hour said:

On Broadway idiot he explained that the part about 7 years have gone so fast was about moving out on his own at 17.

There is only one song about Amanda, that we are aware of specifically, on the trilogy and it's not even on Dos, so why would he be trying to tie Fuck Time into the album that hasn't come out yet by referencing Amanda? If that's all he was doing he could have used Ashley. There is nothing to tie it to! It's not a rock opera. It's an album about partying etc. Not an album about Amanda.

 

Like I said maybe there was some other reason for choosing to reference her rather than using one of the other names mentioned on the albums. But since it is a name mentioned on there could've just been a convenient one to pick. I know it isn't an album about her but there's a couple of songs that reference her (Amanda and probably Ashley) so could've been an influence on the choice to add it. I don't think it's just a coincidence that the song contained no references to her until it was added to a set of albums that contains references to her.

[Second favourite son]

31 minutes ago, GreenDayTheory said:

The name reference in F*ck Time is just to make it relate in the album but why not Lady Cobra's Name??

'Amanda Jones' fits better with the meter of the song than 'Lady Cobra'.  Which could also be an argument for him choosing the name Amanda not in reference to the particular Amanda from his past - if he's written the song and has to fill a line with name with a set rhythm, and a name is both a title of the song on the trilogy already and the correct rhythm then it probably popped into his head pretty early, and it can be hard to change your mind once you've found something that fits.  Of course, he could've added it to tie in to the story intentionally as well, rather than just subconsciously.

45 minutes ago, Hermione said:

You guys know no one except the people involved actually knows the exact details and status of all these relationships at every moment during all these years right?

Add to that the fact that this all happened 30 years ago so even those involved don't remember everything completely accurately.  My last relationship ended only just over 2 years ago and I can't remember an exact timeline of what went on despite the fact that it was incredibly meaningful to me.  Those involved in these relationships have done a lot more since and had a lot longer to forget things or to shape events more in line with their emotions than a true timeline.

19 hours ago, Hero_Of_The_Hour said:

Why do people assume all the songs Billie wrote about cheating on the trilogy suggest he cheated with Lady Cobra just because she was a guest vocalist and they had a fun song about her? 

[Hero_Of_The_Hour]

1 hour ago, Second favourite son said:

'Amanda Jones' fits better with the meter of the song than 'Lady Cobra'.  Which could also be an argument for him choosing the name Amanda not in reference to the particular Amanda from his past - if he's written the song and has to fill a line with name with a set rhythm, and a name is both a title of the song on the trilogy already and the correct rhythm then it probably popped into his head pretty early, and it can be hard to change your mind once you've found something that fits.  Of course, he could've added it to tie in to the story intentionally as well, rather than just subconsciously.

Add to that the fact that this all happened 30 years ago so even those involved don't remember everything completely accurately.  My last relationship ended only just over 2 years ago and I can't remember an exact timeline of what went on despite the fact that it was incredibly meaningful to me.  Those involved in these relationships have done a lot more since and had a lot longer to forget things or to shape events more in line with their emotions than a true timeline.

 

Logic says he's referencing the same Amanda. Like I said he could have used Ashley or a million other names. There was no need to tie the song to a different album by using one name that happens to be Amanda but not intending the song to be about her  

As for the meme... In fairness Billie wrote songs on the trilogy about cheating. That's not exactly debatable. He wasn't remotely subtle. It's just stupid to assume that he has to have cheated with Lady Cobra. He could have cheated with half of the US for all we know. 

[Second favourite son]

3 minutes ago, Hero_Of_The_Hour said:

Logic says he's referencing the same Amanda. Like I said he could have used Ashley or a million other names. There was no need to tie the song to a different album by using one name that happens to be Amanda but not intending the song to be about her  

As for the meme... In fairness Billie wrote songs on the trilogy about cheating. That's not exactly debatable. He wasn't remotely subtle. It's just stupid to assume that he has to have cheated with Lady Cobra. He could have cheated with half of the US for all we know. 

I agree there's a chance that he's referencing the same Amanda.  But he couldn't have used Ashley because that wouldn't have fit the meter of the song, unless he added an extra syllable to the 'oh' or something.  I think regardless of why he chose Amanda, it's obviously been noticed by the listeners and therefore is relevant regardless of intention.  

Oh yes, he absolutely did.  I was making the same point as yours there, although I'd also argue that he doesn't necessarily have to have cheated with anyone to write a song about it (and it would be a pretty dumb move if he had).  I see those songs more as exploring a temptation than recounting actual events.