Billie Joe interview for Le Monde

[DeJennsitized]

1 minute ago, petros said:

Maybe try to read my last post and get back to me. I think I perfectly explain why imo it's wrong to use the world guilty.

I did read it. You said yourself they "need to understand what they did was wrong." And how were they wrong? Ah yes, they helped get a white supremacist into power. i.e, they're guilty. 

Doesn't matter how they justified their vote, that's the reality. 

[petros]

1 minute ago, Jenn. said:

I did read it. You said yourself they "need to understand what they did was wrong." And how were they wrong? Ah yes, they helped get a white supremacist into power. i.e, they're guilty. 

Doesn't matter how they justified their vote, that's the reality. 

Aaah ok then I can't seem to change your mind on that. To you it's more logical to blame 60 mil people. To me it isn't. I guess that's our difference  

[DeJennsitized]

Just now, petros said:

Aaah ok then I can't seem to change your mind on that. To you it's more logical to blame 60 mil people. To me it isn't. I guess that's our difference  

Of course it's logical. The candidate with the most votes in a state wins the electoral collage votes in that state. The people who voted for Trump resulted in his win. So yeah I abso-fucking-lutely do blame 60 million people. And I guess that is our difference. Peace

[petros]

1 minute ago, Jenn. said:

Of course it's logical. The candidate with the most votes in a state wins the electoral collage votes in that state. The people who voted for Trump resulted in his win. So yeah I abso-fucking-lutely do blame 60 million people. And I guess that is our difference. Peace

And to me that kind of thinking is shallow and I try to think deeper than that. 

[Cunt]

On 11/9/2016 at 7:54 PM, Justin1 said:

Americans felt that there was far too much change, and far too fast. 

It might not be the fact the there was too much change, but they felt it was the wrong kind of change. 

[Christian's Inferno!]

I think we all know the reason these people voted for Trump is because they're less educated and less informed. But that doesn't justify voting for him.

For example, if an uneducated person killed somebody, you can't just say "Oh it's ok. They're uneducated so they didn't know it was wrong"

[Stuart&Ave]

As someone stated on page 3, I think, you have to consider those words were said in English, translated in French than back to English. It means some of the words or even sentences aren't exactly how he said it at first. 

[laurie_black]

You are basing your entire line of argument on making a big deal out of the use of this one word "guilty" when you do not even know that this is the word he originally used. Not that I personally think that there is anything wrong with using that word.

[DeJennsitized]

Just now, MysticManiac said:

I think we all know the reason these people voted for Trump is because they're less educated and less informed. But that doesn't justify voting for him.

For example, if an uneducated person killed somebody, you can't just say "Oh it's ok. They're uneducated so they didn't know it was wrong"

It was the same with Brexit. People were fed lies and their fears were used for manipulation. But they were STILL GUILTY for the result. It's not really something to debate is it, it's just a fact??

[petros]

2 minutes ago, laurie_black said:

You are basing your entire line of argument on making a big deal out of the use of this one word "guilty" when you do not even know that this is the word he originally used. Not that I personally think that there is anything wrong with using that word.

Yeah you're right. Maybe he didn't really said that. It's just an interesting conversation though that I kept going with people here and didn't still cared if billie said it or not. People here say it too so I try to contradict them too not just billie.

2 minutes ago, Jenn. said:

It was the same with Brexit. People were fed lies and their fears were used for manipulation. But they were STILL GUILTY for the result. It's not really something to debate is it, it's just a fact??

Not guilty, responsible. Thank you, I swear I'll stop now  

And of course that's another conversation we won't be having here but the brexit seems to be going pretty well for them. I have an economic annalist sister and while I don't know much about these their markets are really good and everything's going fine for them from what I heard from her. So maybe people overreacted at first when they first heard the news. Maybe the same thing's going on now. I guess we will all know when time passes.

[Christian's Inferno!]

1 minute ago, petros said:

And of course that's another conversation we won't be having here but the brexit seems to be going pretty well for them. I have an economic annalist sister and while I don't know much about these their markets are really good and everything's going fine for them from what I heard from her. So maybe people overreacted at first when they first heard the news. Maybe the same thing's going on now. I guess we will all know when time passes.

Well the UK hasn't actually left the EU yet. It takes a while for this process to happen. But when they do leave, who knows what will happen?

[petros]

Just now, MysticManiac said:

Well the UK hasn't actually left the EU yet. It takes a while for this process to happen. But when they do leave, who knows what will happen?

Yeah you're right. I meant at first the markets went down and everyone panicked but then it all went better and everything was on the rise again.

[DeJennsitized]

1 minute ago, petros said:

Yeah you're right. Maybe he didn't really said that. It's just an interesting conversation though that I kept going with people here and didn't still cared if billie said it or not. People here say it too so I try to contradict them too not just billie.

Not guilty, responsible. Thank you, I swear I'll stop now  

And of course that's another conversation we won't be having here but the brexit seems to be going pretty well for them. I have an economic annalist sister and while I don't know much about these their markets are really good and everything's going fine for them from what I heard from her. So maybe people overreacted at first when they first heard the news. Maybe the same thing's going on now. I guess we will all know when time passes.

Yes, not to drag brexit talk along too much, but just gonna point out that we haven't actually left yet. The pound is still weak at the minute, the only reason it got a bit stronger this week is because somebody fucked up the exchange rates even more than we did . And, similar to this election, it's not just the result itself that is damaging, it's the consequence of it, which is racist people now thinking they are the majority and having their views validated by the win. Britain saw a massive increase in hate crime following the referendum and I daresay it'll be the same thing in the US. And that's why people are frightened. 

[petros]

Just now, Jenn. said:

Yes, not to drag brexit talk along too much, but just gonna point out that we haven't actually left yet. The pound is still weak at the minute, the only reason it got a bit stronger this week is because somebody fucked up the exchange rates even more than we did . And, similar to this election, it's not just the result itself that is damaging, it's the consequence of it, which is racist people now thinking they are the majority and having their views validated by the win. Britain saw a massive increase in hate crime following the referendum and I daresay it'll be the same thing in the US. And that's why people are frightened. 

Oh I didn't think racism was a reason of uk leaving the EU, I thought it was all economic. I actually never thought of it as UK people wanting to leave the EU because they didn't want people from other countries there. I seriously never thought of it like this. Many people from my country study there it's really a shame if people voted brexit out of racism.

[DeJennsitized]

Just now, petros said:

Oh I didn't think racism was a reason of uk leaving the EU, I thought it was all economic. I actually never thought of it as UK people wanting to leave the EU because they didn't want people from other countries there. I seriously never thought of it like this. Many people from my country study there it's really a shame if people voted brexit out of racism.

Oh yeah. The Leave voters were promised the same kind of things Trump promised with regards to immigrants and border control and all that. Of course not every single person voted Leave for that reason, but for those that did, the result made them think they were the majority, and therefore that it was okay to now be openly racist. There was a 58% rise in hate crime from the previous year. No coincidence.

[petros]

Just now, Jenn. said:

Oh yeah. The Leave voters were promised the same kind of things Trump promised with regards to immigrants and border control and all that. Of course not every single person voted Leave for that reason, but for those that did, the result made them think they were the majority, and therefore that it was okay to now be openly racist. There was a 58% rise in hate crime from the previous year. No coincidence.

I see.

And yeah this is kinda off topic but here in greece things with immigrants have been going on I have to guess more than any other country in Europe because of our position in the map. And with all the other things you guys partially know from your tvs or internet there are so many people that turn to our neo nazi party. And that's so sad to see. They are in our parliament as I said and some people that are or used to be in their party are blamed for murders. So yeah we live in troubled times(I realized what I did after I typed that  ) and that's exactly why I think blaming each other is wrong and we should all be united against those that really are fucking us over.

[jj0407]

5 minutes ago, petros said:

Oh I didn't think racism was a reason of uk leaving the EU, I thought it was all economic. I actually never thought of it as UK people wanting to leave the EU because they didn't want people from other countries there. I seriously never thought of it like this. Many people from my country study there it's really a shame if people voted brexit out of racism.

A lot of people voted to leave the EU because they had concerns about immigration and felt that the government needed more control of it, but like @Jenn. said, this caused some people to think it was ok to be openly racist causing a rise in hate crime. Unfortunately, though the issue was on both sides as some people on the remain side would call every Leave voter racist. 

[Leni.]

17 minutes ago, petros said:

Oh I didn't think racism was a reason of uk leaving the EU, I thought it was all economic. I actually never thought of it as UK people wanting to leave the EU because they didn't want people from other countries there. I seriously never thought of it like this. Many people from my country study there it's really a shame if people voted brexit out of racism.

Yeah I think, besides econimical reasons and issues the EU has,  people could have been affected by the fact that many people/refugees/migrants are coming to Europe. And of course they were scared. But I don't think it solves the current problem. It's scary, how every country in the EU seems to be quite "Our nation is everything" - I think the idea of the EU parliament telling other countries what they can or can't do is bullshit - and it's really disturbing hearing that in the UK some people tend to be rude to people from countries from the eastern Europe. It scares me how easily can people hate each other. 

 

7 minutes ago, petros said:

And yeah this is kinda off topic but here in greece things with immigrants have been going on I have to guess more than any other country in Europe because of our position in the map. And with all the other things you guys partially know from your tvs or internet there are so many people that turn to our neo nazi party. And that's so sad to see. They are in our parliament as I said and some people that are or used to be in their party are blamed for murders. So yeah we live in troubled times(I realized what I did after I typed that  ) and that's exactly why I think blaming each other is wrong and we should all be united against those that really are fucking us over.

I agree. Seeing these things happening is just horrific. I'm honestly scared what the future brings, cuz things seems not to be calming down right now.

[petros]

1 minute ago, jj0407 said:

A lot of people voted to leave the EU because they had concerns about immigration and felt that the government needed more control of it, but like @Jenn. said, this caused some people to think it was ok to be openly racist causing a rise in hate crime. Unfortunately, though the issue was on both sides as some people on the remain side would call every Leave voter racist. 

But on the other hand something has to be done about immigration. This isn't a racist statement right? The images I've seen on greek islands near turkey are horrible and of course these people aren't to blame for that. But the EU needed to take some measures about that. I don't know how much the UK has suffered from it though. Maybe there was a solution in the middle as always but people tend to look in the two sides of an argument every time.

[Cunt]

The reason why trump is in office isn't hard to figure out. Look at the disaster that we are in. Race relations have gone back 50 plus years, 20 trillion dollars in debt( which doubled in obamas presidency), terrorism on US soil, no allies that trust the US, riots all over the US, and the biggest distrust between Americans in history and the only thing that the people consider to be a threat? Global Warming. People are sick of it. I'm sick of it. Now did I throw a damn fit and cry the next day after Obama got reelected? No. that's the difference between liberals and conservatives. We don't act like kids and beat up people for voting for Hillary. We don't go and burn down towns. We dont set cop cars on fire. We don't shoot police officers. Don't confuse conservatives with the major Donald Trump supporters. If I had my pick it would have been Ted Cuz, Ben Carson, or Marco Rubio. This the thing with Billie Joe Armstrong. I love the guy, but he doesn't know what the hell he is talking about half of the time. He's calling for a revolution over something that the people he supports created. The thing is that people will ask for the democrats "helping hand" all the time and then blame republicans for everything. Look at Detroit, the state of California, Washington DC, and Chicago. You can confuse areas of those places with the Middle East for hell sakes. Are they run by conservatives? No! I get that everyone thinks it's cool to use words like "racist" and "facist". You know who advocated stronger border patrol? Bill Clinton. You know who's administration had more illegal aliens deported under it than bush's? Obama's. Do you know who didn't let Japenese or Germans in the US during WW2? "Progressive Hero" President Roosevelt. It's what happens if your at war with someone. How would you feel if we lived in the 1940s right now and we were letting in loads of strong German and Japenese men? I'm all for immigration, but if your at war or someone is threatening us, you need to figure out what's going on and work out something. I'm telling you right now that Trump isn't going to be able to deport anyone unless they break the law because of due process. He would have to take all of the illegal aliens and put them in front of judges and have hearings. So no one is getting deported unless they break the law. I know that it's fun to entertain the idea that trump will introduce fascism, but it's not going to happen. I get the frustration from the left. I think what we need is unity not separation, but it seems like, more than republicans, the left wing politics and leaders keep on driving a bigger gap between everyone. Everyone needs to stop the damn whining/fighting and come together. 

[jj0407]

30 minutes ago, petros said:

But on the other hand something has to be done about immigration. This isn't a racist statement right? The images I've seen on greek islands near turkey are horrible and of course these people aren't to blame for that. But the EU needed to take some measures about that. I don't know how much the UK has suffered from it though. Maybe there was a solution in the middle as always but people tend to look in the two sides of an argument every time.

I don't believe that statement is racist on its own. To me the issue in the UK is not the people coming to the UK from other countries. People were coming here from other countries and being given houses and benefits straight away. Also due to certain laws or rules, companies for a long time did not need to pay them the UK's national minimum wage but only pay them their countries equivalent which was usually a lot lower (which to me was disgusting and completely unfair) so of course companies being all about profits were employing all the immigrants and making it difficult for others to get work. There's also the fact of the housing shortage in this country where families are literally being told they have to move 100's of miles away from their home town because there is no housing available for them. People are scared and some felt that voting leave might make the government actually do something about these issues. Because they are the government's fault not the immigrants.

The problem is when people have to vote whether it's the UK voting on Brexit or the US electing their next president, the people never just get straight forward facts so they can make an informed decision. The Brexit referendum was a circus and from what I saw on TV the presidential campaigns in the US was a circus and that does not help the normal person expected to vote. Politicians always play on people's fears and unfortunately it works, even if it turns out to be a load of crap.

 

[Wretched & Divine]

16 hours ago, petros said:

I'm sorry but to me that's the immature way of seeing this. To be the better man you have to respect that people voted for something you believe is wrong and if you think that it's so wrong try to educate your people into not believing the same wrong things in the future. It's not the majority of people's fault the world has become what it has become. People are scared and when people are scared are going into extreme measures. I'm not saying the extreme measures are right but it's logical. That happens in my country too with the neo nazis having a say in our parliament. I never support those people but I understand that those who voted for them aren't guilty fascists by majority but scared people that these desperate times we live as a nation made them to go and vote for these pieces of shit. Now you see my point? Or still? A big majority of americans suck and we should burn them alive, call them fascists and spit on their graves?

Look at Mark Hoppus' reaction to this election. Now tell me which seems right? This one or Billie's?

 

Honestly, I don't know what to say to you if your only response to very valid grievances and concerns for the rights of human beings is "you're disappointing me for not taking the high road". People who voted Trump spat in the faces of everyone who isn't a straight white man, whether that was their intention or not. This is not the time for being the bigger person and if you can't understand that, there is no point in furthering this discussion.

[Cunt]

3 hours ago, Wretched & Divine said:

Honestly, I don't know what to say to you if your only response to very valid grievances and concerns for the rights of human beings is "you're disappointing me for not taking the high road". People who voted Trump spat in the faces of everyone who isn't a straight white man, whether that was their intention or not. This is not the time for being the bigger person and if you can't understand that, there is no point in furthering this discussion.

and mean while Hillary Clinton is taking money from countries that kill gay people and beat women. I don't think Donald Trump is doing anything like that. What's so racist about building a border and supporting LEGAL immigration? Nothing. The thing he said that he wanted to do was deport criminal illegal aliens. Is that racist? Don't think so. That's how it should work. Also look at how well it's been working for European countries to let in refugees. Hint: it's not working well. FRANCE, GERMANY, BELGIUM!

 

[Wretched & Divine]

7 minutes ago, Cunt said:

and mean while Hillary Clinton is taking money from countries that kill gay people and beat women. I don't think Donald Trump is doing anything like that. What's so racist about building a border and supporting LEGAL immigration? Nothing. The thing he said that he wanted to do was deport criminal illegal aliens. Is that racist? Don't think so. That's how it should work. Also look at how well it's been working for European countries to let in refugees. Hint: it's not working well. FRANCE, GERMANY, BELGIUM!

 

 Yet again I find myself saying: this hasn't got anything to do with the candidates, but what the voters themselves are okay with. And yeah, sure, deporting Muslims who live legally in the United States (and were even born there) is totes about keeping out illegal immigrants! And a sweeping ban on all Muslim immigration is obviously about "illegal aliens". You're so right! Not remotely discriminatory at all, silly me.

ETA: You might want to ask a German how well it actually is working, or someone who lives in Germany. @Kaddi.? @Trotsky? Also, those people are refugees for god sake, do you understand the difference?

[Trotsky]

9 minutes ago, Cunt said:

and mean while Hillary Clinton is taking money from countries that kill gay people and beat women. I don't think Donald Trump is doing anything like that. What's so racist about building a border and supporting LEGAL immigration? Nothing. The thing he said that he wanted to do was deport criminal illegal aliens. Is that racist? Don't think so. That's how it should work. Also look at how well it's been working for European countries to let in refugees. Hint: it's not working well. FRANCE, GERMANY, BELGIUM!

 

 

For Germany taking in so many refugees things have gone very well here. I've met quite a lot of them taking language classes and they're all normal people who are quite like me, not a single Islamic extremist so far. And while we're on the subject of Hillary Clinton's donations, I think that's not nearly as unsettling as Trump saying Saudi Arabia can have nuclear weapons.