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The eternal battle of the objective and the subjective, right? East Jesus Nowhere is lyrically great, and makes some serious statements which in my opinion were and still are accurate. In that respect I could compare it with American Idiot. Both makes their points clear and both of them are controversial and so very relevant. Those are that kind of songs which made Green Day as a band matter again in the eyes of the public. Still, they aren't musically their best and are not in my personal top 10. But they should be considered objectively important songs, if we think about their importance to their career. Same goes for Good Riddance. Nobody can deny its importance, or the message its lyrics have. For to me it was the first step they took on the path that led to American Idiot and 21st Century Breakdown - they broke the genre barriers and took a big step forward. The release of that song was very bold movement. And it paid off. The musical greatness of those songs is a matter of taste, but the importance and the impact of theirs is a cold fact. Those are not in my top ten, personally, I repeat, but those are the songs I appreciate the most. Seeing the difference and being able to make the distinction between the importance and the subjective goodness of a piece of art is very important. It's like, yes, I can say and I have a right to claim that Pink Floyd is a criminally overrated band in my opinion, but I can't deny their importance. Or if we take another example. You have every right in the world to say that the Lord of the Rings is a boring medieval nerd fest that merely includes imaginary characters walking trough all kinds of woods, and I understand and respect that opinion, and also kind of agree with it, but neither of us can deny the importance of it or the impact it has had on pop culture in general. Do I make make any sense?

Punk is a funny thing. Nobody agrees what kind of music it is, and everyone has a different conception of what is real and what is fake punk. Then people go all over nuts and start shitstorms whilst arguing what is real punk and what is not, what is cool and what is not. In the end people concluse it is all about some kind of "attitude" which nobody can determine. Genres are a funny thing in general. Y'all take music too seriously.

FINALLY someone agrees with me. Makeout Party not only is musically derivative and boring, also includes the worst set of lyrics Billie has ever written. Partying as a subject doesn't suit them in general and in their stupidness and predictabilitiness those lyrics beat even Fuck Time, which has the most disgusting line Billie has ever written, be it jest or not. ("I wanna fuck you till you're blue in the face") I'd insert the vomiting emoticon but I can't remember the code. Just no. Honestly I thought they were above this kind of lyrics-making.

Although everyone hates on DOS, it's actually overall the most solid album of the three. It's diverse in sound, unlike UNO, but also cohesive in theme and tone, unlike TRE. I think if DOS had better lyrics we'd be looking at it as the best. The musical compositions throughout DOS are generally interesting and of high quality. If the lyrics were more like Stop Drop and Roll, I think this album would be a fan favorite.

Wow, That's Loud! has such a killer riff that the lyrics become likeable the more one listens to it.

Nailed it. But yeah, that whole post is great. That's why 21st Century Breakdown is by fair their best album musically but still not my favourite.

lol

East Jesus Nowhere is arguably their best song

As to point 4, the Foo Fighters thing is an absolute masterclass in promotion.

Because we never see anything about the majority of Dos's women besides their bodies. We don't know their personalities, their motivations, their desires. All we know is their physicality. Even if you don't consider it misogynist, it's damned poor character writing, damned poor storytelling, and frankly a cringeworthy attempt at recapturing lost youth on Billie's part.

Agreed. One of the things that's always been appealing about Billie's writing was how he writes about women. Songs like She, Haushinka and Maria (although that's a metaphor, the point stands) are respectful and understanding. Stuff on the Trilogy just seems like objectification for the most part.

Listening to X-Kid is like religious experience to me.

I don't like genres, it labels bands and when they try something fresh everyone goes ape shit.

I totally agree that they've changed/adapted, but I think that was a natural musical progression for a band that's ambitious and want to challenge themselves and change rather than stagnate. As far as a pop sound goes it's always been there in one way or another though, and I'd say that (for example) the cheesy love songs of their first EP are a lot more pop than the angrier songs of Insomniac. They became more polished production wise but that was because they were in a better studio with more time and money more than anything, in terms of actual songs they've always been a naturally pop influenced band. They even had trouble being allowed to play at Gilman in the early days due to their sound being considered too pop and not punk enough, that's just them.

I don't think that's the reason there's pop elements in their music at all. They've always had those elements there ever since their very first EP, not to become successful but because that's the type of music they wanted to play. The songs on 39/Smooth and Kerplunk aren't any less pop sounding than Dookie. They're influenced by amazing bands that incorporated a pop sound such as The Beatles and The Ramones and many others and appreciate that sound, and play that way because it sounds good to them. They became successful because it turns out lots of people agree that it sounds good. They didn't have to compromise to achieve the sound that people like, it's just what they always played.

I enjoy Makeout Party.

Well maybe when they were touring they should have. I don't think it's stupid. Exactly. Social media is getting all excited over it. They're collabing with other artists. It's genius.

It annoys me as well. Any artist is in the business to be successful. If they say they aren't they are liars. If all they wanted was to play good music, they would become tax attorneys and play to crowds of 200 people on the weekends. GD adapted to become successful and that is by adding elements of pop. Nothing wrong with that, as a matter of fact, it is too be admired.. Plus, just because you are pop, doesn't mean you are bad. There are plenty of good pop artists out there. Of course there are some that really suck too. I don't care what genre you call an artist, if the music is good, I listen.

Dookie and their other mid nineties albums are actually produced pretty cleanly, they don't have a raw/demo-like sound. When they made Dookie they originally wanted it to sound really raw and mixed it that way but they found it didn't sound good so they changed their mind and mixed it again. It's very clear/clean sounding, as are all the albums that followed. I don't really associate Green Day with a particularly raw, punk sound, they've always had that pop influence (even on the first two albums, which sound rawer due to the resources that were available to them at that time but still have a large amount of pop elements in the music).

It doesn't take away from the empowering messages of earlier songs, but said message is a big part of the appeal, and just isn't there on Dos. Plus the songs were written by a 40 year old married guy so it just screams of a lack of sincerity and comes across as trying too hard. It's just silly. It's also arguably misogynistic since Billie wrote these fictional characters to just be penis receptacles.

i actually couldn't agree more

The women in the Trilogy, are not, for the most part, people. They are receptacles to insert a penis into. And that's the most disappointing thing about the entire collection.

"I don't have sex 'cause I can't get it up."

Orgies are fun

X-Kid would have been so far improved on Demolicious. A little more edge on that hook and more distorted guitars would make it fantastic

I really don't mind most of Dos - sure, the lyrics for Fuck Time and Makeout Party are awful, but they're fun songs. Nightlife and Ashley are the only ones I don't like, and the Ashley on Demolicious isn't as bad (I still don't really like it, but it's bearable).

OK, I think we are actually agree, in a roundabout way. The only difference is I think they added more elements of pop as time went on, while still maintaining a rock edge. I will admit I always considered them more of a rock band than punk anyway. In interviews, Mike rarely calls them a punk band, he usually always refers to them as a rock band. I'll give you that they have punk influences.

Which explains why every good "punk" band must grow up and change if they want to remain relevant.

You must have been looking in the wrong place, I looked up there and saw it The first rule of punk is to have no rules. Which demonstrates why 'punk' is a nice idea in theory, but but rarely ever lasts beyond that authority-hating, anti-establishment, non-conformist phase that every teenager goes through.

I may get a second copy of the catalog (I sent a request the other day forgetting I already get the catalog lol) so if I get a second copy I can send to you (tho theres no article he's just on the cover)

I thought I was the only one that went from Uno to Tre. I do adore Fuck Time and Stray Heart. I wish they had just replaced two of the weaker tracks on Uno or Tre and cut out Dos altogether. The whole record is just so immature.

We are lucky though, since most of their terrible songs are on the same album. It's nice of them. After a while you kinda forget that they even exist

Not when you get them off Discogs

Ah, ok. Debatable, but still wrong.

No, but in terms of what I believe to be their *greatest* songs it is.

Well, if to had to choose I'd definitely rather see you as a Jesus than Nim Jim

Thank you

Looked up. Couldn't see it. Disappointed.

Pic For convenience

Makeout Party needs to be un-recorded. The worst Green Day song ever.

RIP Gravy

Some people just want to watch the world burn

It kinda annoys me when fans try to deny Green Day are pop like it's some sort of terrible thing. Yes they are a rock band but there's no denying the fact that they have elements of pop in their music, and there's nothing wrong with that.

That raw, punk sound probably ruins 1,039 SOSH for me. I tried listening to some of it some time ago (after a lot of time, maybe year or more tbh) and my ears were aching.

aw fuck.

The aus version?

Well, for starters, it's an entirely different recording than the one on Uno....

My reasons are that those two albums are better as a whole than Dookie is. Don't get me wrong I think that Dookie is a great album, but its tracks are very weak when you take away the singles. I think when you look at the albums as a whole the songs on Kerplunk and Nimrod's tracks are just plain better. Also I really like the raw sound that Kerplunk brings to the table and Nimrod has a vast veritey of songs that makes me want to go back and listen to it as a whole. Where as the songs on Dookie have gotten somewhat stale for my taste. I would even go as far to say that Kerplunk! and Nimrod are near perfect records, if you take away the last four songs off of Kerplunk.

That was actually implying that Demolicious is better than the Trilogy so nuh! Investigative journalist...