Why do you think 21CB didn't do as well as American Idiot?

[Izzard]

I think some of it was lack of promotion from their label. And American Idiot was Green Day's 'come back' album, so it had a lot more hype surrounding it.

[Eeefaa.]

This is what I think (from talking to ex-Green Day fans who know little to nothing about a musical), was that their old fanbase grew up. I guess they thought that they wouldnt like the same stuff they were into when they were twelve. Green Day left it a bit long, I think, people lost interest.

It didnt help that 21stCBD was constantly compared to AI in reviews. It was inevitable, but it didnt help. I like AI more because it seems to be more raw, and 21stCBD is a bit too polished, or trying to hard, or something. Dont get me wrong, I still love it. But I feel they shouldnt have been compared, because soon they'll be in a shadow like the Dookie one they were in for years.

Thirdly (and finally) 21stCBD songs were for sure not played enough on the radio here, or promoted. Plus, the video's were crap. The AI videos were more gripping, or something, and CONSTANTLY on TV.

Idk, this is just what I think.

Edit- Oh and another thing, American politics are not... I cant find the word Im looking for, but when AI came out everyone was definitley sure that Bush was a total twat. They didnt really have anything to complain about this time around. I mean, sure, they did, but they didnt go as far as calling a leading political figure an outright idiot straight from the album title.

[Nele]

Ok, I read your post and yes, RELEVANCE. I actually started a thread several months ago entitled is Green Day's music still as relevant as before and it was an interesting thread. I'll try and dig it up to link it for you.

Yes, and most of my dealing are with people from England. You were, what, 9 then? Anyway, when I went to work there, people would literally ask me what MY government was doing, and why THEY were being dragged in. It was horrible.

BTW people, it wasn't promotion. IT WAS this. American Idiot had some better songs I think, but maybe not. Can never decide. Some of my favorite songs are on TCB.

I don't think it was just that. I remember buying the album not because I thought Bush was an idiot or because they opened my eyes and I agreed with their views on America. I mean I was 10 when I got the album, my English wasn't really good and I wasn't interested in politics as well. It was something different here, I think. Maybe realizing that it's good to be an individual with different views.

I'd say it depends a little bit on the country In the US the time was just perfect and in Europe or somehwere else the singles were perfectly chosen and the promotion was really good.

[Nmd]

1) Promotion

2) I don't feel like they made the wisest choices for singles,

3) most of all, it is SO much easier now than it was back then to download music for free

I favor AI over 21CB, but it is still an amazing album imo. Maybe because in AI, it was more of a story with a kind of resolution, the concept of 21CB almost feels like more of a theme to me. Also, I love the transition from Act I to Act II, but Act II to Act III didn't make as much sense to me

[Just Kate]

i don't.

[Eeefaa.]

You guys are VERY MUCH underselling the importance of the timing of American Idiot.

Nail. On head. Hit.

Same with Dookie, in a way, that the timing of the release was PERFECT. I mean, as my Dad points out to be about a zillion times a minute, there are better albums/bands/songs out there, but Green Day just said it when people wanted to hear it, like with American Idiot. Im not sure what people wanted them to say with 21stCBD.

[blitzkriegdeb]

Lack of promotion, bad choices for singles, bad videos, it all adds up, sadly.

The promotion was shit, a few commercials doesn't cut it. The album was so underhyped, so nobody other then us fans really knew about it. KYE was a bad choice for a first single. It wasn't catchy enough nor did it represent the album as a whole. They need Sam Bayer back. Not counting WMUWSE, he captured each song's message so perfectly.

Also a big factor is relevance. When AI came out, Bush was in office, and nobody was happy. AI spoke to a lot of people because they really challenged everyone to think about what's going on. Rock music was a bit more popular in 04/05 as well. Now that Bush is gone, and rock isn't really charting, there's not that big of a buzz anymore. Not to mention with the musical, it's pulling attention back to AI.

As big and as monumental as AI was, it's almost like it's going to be their downfall, in the sense that every album after it is going to be compared to it. Just like Insomniac coming after Dookie, 21stCB is a great album that has shoes the size of Jupiter to fill.

[Rosie May]

I personally think the most important reason why it wasn't as successful as AI was timing. Promotion and bad single choices didn't help either.

When American Idiot came out it was saying exactly what a lot of people were thinking, and it was like, "finally, someone is saying something about this." I think with 21cb, nobody wanted to think about what it addresses. Lady Gaga and the Black Eyed Peas were extremely sucessful in the last two years, their music is/was an escape from recession, religion, all of these serious things, I think the general public just want to get away from all of their problems and have some fun. That, I think, is the main reason why 21cb wasn't anywhere near as successful as AI, it's about all of the things people didn't want to think about at the time. I think as well that because GD were so successful in 2004/2005, people were sick of them, they'd had their turn, people didn't want to hear them complaining about something else five years later.

I think KYE is the weakest song on the album, not exactly the best thing to come back with. And the video was mediocre, I don't think it did them any favours. Then 21 Guns was the second single, practically the same format as American Idiot. I honestly think if I wasn't a fan I would've seen 21cb as American Idiot part two and I wouldn't have wanted to buy it. I think if they had released something like Peacemaker as a first single it would have been more interesting, it shows a completely different side to Green Day that people who weren't fans wouldn't have seen before, it might not have done any better, but at least it's an upbeat song that people could dance to. I think LNOE should have been the second single because it's a straight foward love song, again a side of Green Day non-fans never really see either. It would've shown they progressed somewhat from AI with a sound that was still them but that was new as well.

And promotion, like most people have said. The videos weren't great this time around, everyone was confused over whether EJN was a single, and 21cb was out at the same time, so even a lot of fans probably couldn't buy the single if they wanted to.

So yeah, that's what i think, sorry about the eassy

[November's Storms]

Sam. Bayer.

That is all.

Yeah, the vids for 21stCB (album) were very average. The video for 21st Century Breakdown (song) was the best of a bad bunch. Nothing in comparison to any from A.I.

[Savior of Rebellion]

Well, for me it was the timing and promotion.....but if you think about it, its kind of like the same situation with Dookie and Insomniac...Dookie broke ground, and Insomniac didn't make as much an impact.

However I also think it was the timing of when it was released, although both albums are genius (21CB & AI )...American Idiot was just the right album at the right time, and it just sparked a new era for Green Day. For me its not the music, it stills feel like Green Day to me

[minorty13]

I think that the wonderful world of popular music and top 20's changed a LOT in the years it took Green Day to put out their new album. That's the main reason for me, but all of the other things mentioned here (economy etc.) definitely had a part as well

[Chelsea Hotel]

I think it's a combination of substance and promotion. There weren't very many songs on 21CB that sounded like singles, with the exception of KYE (and maybe LOTAG). Because of that lack, seen by the promoters, they felt that they couldn't sufficiently push the album because it wasn't as visible as AI with, what, six songs that were released?

[CrimsonRegret]

I agree with everyone in saying the promotion was crap and the musical came out at the wrong time because it stole he spot light. Also I think it was because they tried to make it equally as big and epic as AI.. but it didn't turn out that way. Like someone said, it kinda felt like AI part deux to me. The slower more melodic stuff kinda threw it off for me in a way, but I am a huge fan of the faster songs. Sometimes ideas really are just a one trick pony.

[Hermione]

Because they didn't promote it properly, made poor single choices, and released mostly mediocre videos.

If only they'd released the wonderful East Jesus Nowhere with a proper video and proper promotion to make a real statement and a real splash. It could've all been so different! When the album first came out, the band were talking excitedly about how they were looking forward to EJN coming out and making a splash, so why was it given such a half-arsed lame release? It makes me think it was done deliberately to prevent any chance of it over-shadowing the musical. In fact I can't help thinking the same about the whole album - it really seems like they just wanted to promote the musical and didn't want anything to take the attention away from that.

It's sad because when the album first came out, magazines were raving about it and some even saying it was better than American Idiot - there was a real buzz about it. But with such a woeful lack of promotion and dull single choices and videos it soon went off the radar. It's an amazing album that got rave reviews, and I fully believe it had the potential to make an amazing impact. But sadly that potential was wasted.

[TAR]

This is hard for a lot of people to admit, but it was undeniably the quality of the material. The vast majority of the songs on 21st Century Breakdown were generic, uninspired material with forced lyrics. I hate to sound so negative, but the honest answer is they just weren't as good and the album was a major disappointment. On top of that, the best songs they had, Horseshoes And Hand Grenades and Viva La Gloria! weren't even released as singles. But anyone who compares 21st Century Breakdown to American Idiot cannot possibly justify liking the former more without coming across as ignorant. The musical style may have "evolved", but it evolved into something that was not Green Day. Billie's falsetto voice does not fit in the songs, and worst of all he cannot even really do it live, so it only adds to the overproduced feel the album already has, although the blame for that probably goes to Butch Vig. But regardless, it is pretty difficult to produce a hit album when the material is simply not there, and for 21st Century Breakdown the music is simply not that great.

[z5warrior]

I agree with what was said before. The promotion was bad and the timing was off. The singles also could've been better too. I actually really like 21cb because unlike a lot of new fans that came in during AI, I was in love with Green Day because of 21cb. The album is great to me, but it was another concept album like AI, so it would've obviously been compared. The sound is also a bit different and lets face it, the face of music has changed. Rock is not as popular anymore and dance music with meaningless (or mostly meaningless) lyrics are in, and like others have said, the album is complex and takes a long time to fully appreciate and not too many people are willing to do that. While AI was raw, faster and, simpler, 21cb is more polished and complex. That in saying 21cb is still my favorite album.

[XBlade1X]

AI came at a perfect time where it was needed most, The single choices were good and so were the videos in my opinion...

21CB was too long of a wait, The singles choices were terrible and in a bad order, the videos were okay, but the one for 21CB was phenomenal (but it definitely should have been the first single) and I don't know about the rest of the world, but in Australia the album promotion was terrible, I found out about the album on Myspace, because I wasn't a GDC member at the time. The only shop that I found that bothered to promote the album was JB HI FI, and it was because of the special edition, which I bought.

It really sucks to see such a good album wasted for all kinds of reasons... but at least we have it and it means a lot to us.

I really hope the next one does better, and these mistakes will be remembered and avoided next time. I really want to see Green Day appreciated more by non fans than what they were during 21CB's era.

[Mar]

A combination of a number of things:

A lot of people who were at that awkward 15/16 age when AI came out ~grew out of them~ (to be honest, I did for a while) by the time 21CB came out.

The subject matter just became TOO depressing. People wanted AI, because they could vent their anger. I think AI is a much angrier album than 21CB, which is more melancholy (I don't mean that as a negative).

Album sales are in the toilet, obviously. Rock radio is suffering badly, so there's fewer options for radio play (the same goes for videos...it seemed as though few videos were played on VH1/MTV in the BOBD days, well, it's worse now).

Plain and simple, the songs just didn't connect with audiences. I hated KYE when it first came out because I thought it was a lifeless, empty chant, and I think a lot of people felt that way too, and decided to judge this whole project as they did with that song.

[Marlee]

I mostly think it's just because American idiot was huge, and trying to follow up with another success like that is hard. It's like saying why did insomniac do worse than Dookie. it's because they were still in the shadow of their last sucess.

another idea i had had to do with the content.

21st Century breakdown, to me, felt repetitive. American idiot was released at a perfect time for a politically charged album. And the idea of a rock opera was new. 21 CBD was another rock opera about the same topic, but not during the same time. It was like they did the same thing over again.

I actually was having this conversation with a few friends like last month. One of them said this, and i thought it made a lot of sense

"American idiot was about surviving the Bush administration and running from the problems in the government while it was happening. 21 CBD is about the same thing...but afterwards??"

[Guest]

i think promotion had a lot to do with it. not to mention the fact all the videos from 21cb have sucked ass, with the exception of 21 guns. they also made know your enemy and last of the american girls both singles, and those are two of the worst songs on the album imo.

that being said, i like 21cb a lot more than i like american idiot. the only songs i ever listen to off ai are jesus of suburbia and give me novacaine.

[iloveyouisntenough]

I don't think there is any real way to know. I'd imagine because the last album just set the bar so high for them, that with this album, it was almost guarenteed to not do as well because critics will automatically compare to the last album.

Or maybe, it just wasn't what people wanted to listen to....

Who knows though. Honestly, I think it was an amazing album regardless.

[Lu_S]

I think there are many reasons, to begin the promotion that was horrible. Here I hardly hear about Green Day or the album. On the radio it plays 1 or 2 songs for day of Green Day, what is absurd!!

And what I think is also a big factor is that AI was something new, and most people expected the GD didn't make another rock opera.

21CB is my favorite album of Green Day, so I don't realy make clue!

[ParadoxAndPlaid]

I think it's mostly due to the really poor promotion of the album and it's singles and just being at the wrong time in the music industry. I don't think it had anything to do with the quality of the music. I personally like 21CB a little Better than AI.

American Idiot was everywhere, it could not be ignored. On billboards, on merchandise, the music videos were popular, it was marketed in every way possible. 21st century Breakdown did not get as heavily promoted. There was less merchandise being sold in less stores. And honestly, although I like them, the music videos for these singles aren't very impressive; so they aren't being played as often. And as for timing, it's just not what the vast majority of people seem to be into right now. When American Idiot came out people were looking for that sort of music, but If you look at music websites and television shows today; the most popular thing seems to be this theatrical, weird almost 80's pop style.

But In my opinion; I'm happy with how things have gone for 21st century breakdown. I like it better this way. It is not completely faded into obscurity, but it's not an obnoxious spectacle either. I didn't like how radios would overplay Holiday and Boulevard of Broken Dreams, I did not like the impractical merchandise they sold at every store in the mall, and I especially did not like the bandwagon 'fans' that have disappered now that it's 'not cool' to like Green Day. I think that this album is a time of reckoning, the people who love the music, and love the band are all still here. The music is just as good as it has always been, and the guys are happy with what they are doing. The fans are happy, the band is too. That is all that matters to me.

[Dry_Ice]

Here's what I feel.

American Idiot was a shock to everyone and had great promotion. But at the same time I believe it was over-promoted. It was always in your face and kind of annoying after awhile. American Idiot was huge and got a great and positive response from many people. AI is the reason why I am a bigger fan of Green Day's work, so of course they did something right with that album. As for 21CB I feel like it had horrible promotion. Yet it was a nice change from that 'in-you-face' promotion. Everyone excepted 21CB to be the toper of AI.... and it didn't do it one bit for people. For myself, I loved 21CB it was different and I really saw myself in this album, I really connected to it in so many ways. But it always felt like it was 'American Idiot: The Sequel.' I could tell that some songs on 21CB were written in the same type of style or manner like was done on AI. Also the videos for 21CB weren't very strong as well as the single choices.

[ParadoxAndPlaid]

Exactly (on the second part), it's not the promotion, it's the album. It just wasn't as much a part of pop culture, period. It's NOT promotion. The same people were coming up with the same marketing plans people. It was a heavily successful album (TCB), if you use AI as the barometer for success, than most things fail.

The amount an album continues to get for promotion is directly proportional to how well it's selling. If it had been selling more, you'd be seeing it on more billboards and shit.

I sort of disagree with this. It is 100% true that the more an album sells the more the promotion grows.

But in the case of American Idiot, the second that album hit stores; shirts, watches, bedding, hell- even candles were right there to go with it. They were released simultaneously. Those things did not happen so much with 21CB.